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  • #38968
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    removed

    #38979
    Matt
    Participant

    Phool,

    I’m sorry for the difficulty that you’ve been having, it sounds like a big mess of thoughts and emotions all swirling around. When we are in pain, it is normal to act in such a way… but I must agree that you’ve been acting like a fool.

    Why is forgiveness so difficult for you? Consider that all of us make mistakes, and she has made some for sure. So have you. You can see her issues with boundaries, self-esteem, and being honest. Was she right to be afraid of admitting to you that she had erred? Is your love so weak that it closes down in the presence of some moments of weakness?

    What I see is you have two real options. One is you accept her as she is, which includes a certain amount of baggage from being abused in the past. If she is worth accepting that, then you have some apologizing to do. Trust is about there being enough space in the relationship that being honest is OK. You closed that space by insisting and demanding, spying and accusing. It is not appropriate to demand others’ honesty.

    Instead, what we can do is tell them our feelings, how important honesty is to a lasting intimacy, and offer them a chance to join us in togetherness. Said differently, if I were her I would not feel safe being honest with you, because you batter her with your insistence and spying (which is manipulative deception). You insisted for weeks that she be honest with you, and then dropped her like a stone when she finally tried to come clean? And you think SHE is the one that betrayed the intimacy?

    I do not wish to be inconsiderate to you, its just that you seem to be teetering on the edge of being abusive, and I am hoping that you can see the way your unsettled emotions have lead you to forcing that which should not be forced.

    The other option is to throw in the towel. If you can not accept her as she is, then perhaps it is best to move on. That being said, if she wants to get help for her esteem issues that lead to kissing, because she sees how that harmed the relationship, then it is reasonable to help her. It is even perfectly just for you to say that the only way you’d feel able to commit to her is if she gets help. It is just not OK for you to insist that she change to be good enough for you. Plenty of people out there accept people as they are, and would be far more understanding than you have been. Its true that her actions erode intimacy, but the severing of it is something you did… your betrayal.

    If you can surrender all of that muck flying through your mind and heart, and set it down, perhaps you can see what is really there. She was or is confused and acted unskillfully. You felt pain and acted unskillfully. You two are the same, mirrors for each other. That is either something you can accept or not.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    #38994
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @amatt , Thanks, your words give me a newer perspective on things, I have had the same thoughts but have been resisting them.. and the reason being that i am still tied to the past. I havent been able to let go of the images in my head, I think its the way i found out, she never confessed, I found out by accident. And I still think She is hiding the whole story from me, because of the evidence i have, its her words vs concrete proof. Tell me, how can I forgive when I still have doubts , how can i forget without closure, how can i try a new relationship with her without burying the past.. I always prided myself as having a big heart and I hate what his has done to me, I have become petty and cynical, and i know forgiveness will free me from this behaviour, but as of now, it eludes me however hard i try. Thanks for your words, however harsh thay may be, none of my friends or the counseller had put it out for fear of hurting me and I think i needed to hear those..
    best wishes
    P

    #38998
    Matt
    Participant

    P,

    Yes! Finally you are asking questions which might help you, even though they are phrased as though she has the key to your peace. Consider it is possible to find peace in the truth of what has happened. You already see it, it just doesn’t feel like enough because your pain continues to make it all about you. So, its time to flex that big heart of yours!

    The truth is you have your view of the events, and also what she has been comfortable telling you. When you see a liar, that is from your side, projecting a permanent quality where there is none. She is not “a liar”… rather, when she is scared she tries to find the least painful path, which might include lying. It is conditional based on trust. You pushed and pushed, and instead of hiding like she wanted to, she seems to have felt backed into a corner. We really don’t know what it was like on her side, and you have been so caught up on yours that you haven’t been looking at her.

    Perhaps when you imagine her with that other man you can only see her actions. How could she kiss him!?! There was a lot more going on than that, and unless she really just doesn’t love you, there was certainly shame, confusion, mindlessness (alcohol), loneliness and who knows what else. There was your love, scared and alone with pressures inside and outside, pushing her around. It was certainly disorienting and full of suffering. If she had fallen off a bus and broken her foot, would you also make it about you? She told you she was shoved and couldn’t find the will to resist, and yet when she fell out of tune with your intimacy, instead of letting her fall into your arms for comfort, you made it about you and labelled her as a “betrayer”.

    So, how big is that heart really? Bigger than your mind? Can you reach out to her in that vision in your head and love the woman who fell? Are your lips so demanding that they cannot forgive hers? I believe in you, and in love.

    Now, that being said, it may be that she is actually prone to misstepping like that, which will make it very hard for her to maintain intimacy with a partner. She maybe callous and uncaring to the phool. I don’t know, she’s not posting on tinybuddha. The view I describe is to help free your mind, rather than figure out her side. That is up to you to invite her to talk to you about what she wants, sees, thinks and feels.

    Because there is such a high amount of chaos in your mind and emotions, it may help to have a cathartic release. When you are feeling the pressure inside, scream into a pillow, jiggle your body, jump up and down, flail around like a phool. You’d be surprised at how much help is to be found in just getting the energy moving again.

    If you keep finding your mind is getting pulled back into suffering and spinning, then perhaps metta practice will help. It is great at helping settle agitation. Search YouTube for “Jayasaro metta” if you’re interested.

    For powerful emotions, sitting meditation may help. Ajahn Jayasaro has a great counting breath meditation technique on YouTube, or you could pick up a copy of Zen Mind, Beginners Mind by Shunryu Suzuki. Or, if you’re inclined you could visit a local Buddhist center and see about some instruction. I promise there is something magical about being with someone who sees deep into your dysfunction and is peacefully compassionate and accepting… plus a teacher can check your posture and so forth. Its worth the effort!

    With warmth,
    Matt

    #39111
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @amatt !! if everyone had a friend like you, life would be so much easier 🙂 it is as if you know what i want to hear. I apologized to her for my reckless behaviour, we are still going to take it slow till i am absolutely sure that i wont spiral back into doubt and accusations. About her, she does have a history of failed relationships inpast and not giving herself time to recover before starting with a new one ( we started similarly, and i thought it wouldnt bother us due to the devotion we had for each other initially) but I think she hasn’t resolved her personal issues from the past, I have suggested a counselor but she s too busy for it right now, and no, unfortunately she doesnt seek out help here too. I ll keep trying still.. but i do feel better after the last few days, thanks for the kind words, I wish all the luck to you, you’ve given my life some much needed direction, hopefully it gets better from now on.
    ** I started practicing yoga again after a long time and the meditation helps too.
    take care
    P

    #39540
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So I am back again, after failing miserably at the forgiveness.. I sowed the seed, even contacted her saying I release her and myself of all the guilt and shame.. but the moment I wish to initiate further conversation and may be delve a little deeper, I realize I havent really let go, I thankfully kept it to myself and will not burden her, but I can think of getting back with her without resentment/ passive aggressiveness and I dont want that. This gives rise to even more conflict, since I know what is right but my mind still spirals down into the muck. There were other problems in the relationship, I was quite dependent and had lost most of my friends and she had been indulging in harmless flirting with a lot of men throughout, which she believes was due to low self worth. I have asked her to see a counsellor for herself and not for me or us, but that hasnt happened. So I decide to give it time, but time is not really healing this wound, its been a couple of months and It still bleeds when I foolishly peel of the scab. I started medidation and have been speaking about it to others as well, but how do i regain the control of my mind and emotions. I feel best way to go is to just let her go, but would that be the easy way out ?

    #39541
    Matt
    Participant

    Phool,

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could simply say “my leg is healed” after a break and it would be so? Or if we were to stare up at the sky and wish the rainclouds away and it becomes sunny? Or if we could just say “I let go of the resentment” and it all fades?

    Consider that the time you spend cycling through thoughts and making her actions about you puts into your mind a momentum that you’re now struggling with! It will take diligence and effort, which at least now you’re making! Its been a week and it still hurts? That’s pretty normal in my opinion… keep at it. As you sit in meditation and notice “this is what’s here” and move your mind to the meditation object (such as numbers or the breath) you’re developing spaciousness in mind. When you think about her flirting and make it about you and betrayal, you collapse that space. Keep at it, it takes time.

    Can you see how you asked her to get counselling because you need her to change? “Please get counselling so you do not act in a way that hurts me.” Not “that must be painful to have low self worth, maybe there is something you can do to feel better.”. Its still selfish, you feeling uncomfortable feelings and pushing her to act in a way that is more pleasing to you.

    That being said, a relationship doesn’t need to be an endurance trial, and if you simply can’t love the true her, the her as she is, maybe it is better to let her go. It isn’t the easy way out, because there is no ‘easy’ path… there is simply the path that leads to further suffering and the path that leads to liberation. The cushion, letting go of painful emotions, letting the cycling thoughts settle… those are the path to be on. With her or without her is between you and your heart.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    #41222
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I am sorry I had to remove my earlier post, but in short, I discovered some messages on my Girlfriend of two years computer incriminating her of having an affair with a colleague, She denied it at first, then said it was an emotional affair, than admitted to kissing him twice.. all along apologizing and wanting to make things right, this happened 3 months ago, since three months she showed remorse, She had to move far for work and still kept in touch occasionally. However, I kept thinking may be we could work out.. I was insistent on getting more answer and may have been emotionally abusive ( as pointed out by Matt) so I held back, gave her some space.. now its a month later of me backing off, she emails me that they slept together.. multiple times since the last few months.. and she was too ashamed to tell me before. I was being treated horribly when she had the affair, and she lied to my face when i asked her about the distance i felt between us.. and I feel she did not respect me the last three months as well by lying to my face. I recd the email 5 minutes ago, and I replied to take care of herself and that i want her to be ok ( none of the emotional abuse as prior) but instead of me letting go and getting release, I now feel a storm brewing within me, and feels like i ll explode.. And now I dont know how to handle these emotions.. I hate her but dont want any bad things to happen to her.. she has had troubled relationships in the past as well and this may be a sign of a deeper issue, which I ve asked her to see a counseller about.. but I feel less of a man now and wonder f i ll ever find someone again, we were great together and the last two yrs, apart form the 6 months were the best days of my life but its all gone now.. any wisdom to keep me sane in this situation ??

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