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  • #110383
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    The “complete slap in the face after attempting to reach out in love and trust” is what I believe you experienced as a child reaching out to the adult/s in your young life, reaching out with love and trust but receiving hate instead, your trust and innocent having been betrayed by them.

    This is what I meant by what I wrote in the last post to you: “The pain is already there.”

    About the notion that “any woman with a pulse can find a man out here” and ” This also makes me nervous about those who have not already found a guy”-

    What if what most men are attracted by is what is flashy: dress, elegance, mannerisms, formal education perhaps and the women who are left are … of the lesser qualities (?): honest, reliable, trustworthy, kind???

    anita

    #110548
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    Pretty much come to the conclusion that the ones who are left fall into the categories of harpies, persons with serious mental/emotional issues, and other issues. Like I said, if there isn’t something seriously wrong, women don’t stay single long. Seriously wrong transcends such things as drug addictions, certain mental illnesses, infidelity, etc. I used the example of Grendel’s mother to demonstrate just how messed up somebody has to be to be passed up. Unless you find somebody immediately who is new to the area, odds are they will be bombarded by people.

    You also find the folks who have been traumatized by past relationships and/or being hounded by guys. They are usually those women who are scared to leave the house, office, etc.

    Of course, wasn’t too keen on the relationship thing in other places either. But, now that I am interested, things look a bit sparse. Keep thinking that there has to be someone out here for me, but not much promising so far.

    Guessing that women also look for flashiness, etc. Stablity, reliability, etc. don’t seem to sell well.

    #110561
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XeopusTex:

    As to your last sentence: flashy, shiny objects do get attention, immediate attention.

    You wrote: ” the ones who are left fall into the categories of harpies, persons with serious mental/emotional issues, and other issues. Like I said, if there isn’t something seriously wrong, women don’t stay single long.”

    I am challenging the quoted two lines above for accuracy, reality. If a woman has a serious mental illness that shows in the form of her walking in the street unwashed, speaking to someone who is not there- then everyone can see that she has a serious mental illness. And you can see that she is alone and you think: no wonder she is alone. I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with her!

    But there are plenty of women who are washed and exhibit good table manners and other manners who have serious mental issues. Some of them are flashy and shiny.

    It is the flashy and shiny that are “taken” first, become unavailable, not the mentally well.

    Honest, kind women- women worthy of your trust- some of them are there, available. Just not flashy. In your last line you referred to yourself as having “stability, reliability” but suggested you are not flashy. Well, just like some women will bypass you because you are not flashy, you too bypass some women because they are not flashy.

    anita

    #110653
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    I know it sounds strange, but you would seriously be amazed at the relationships I see out here. Have seen marriages at the courthouse between guys and women with serious issues. They aren’t flashy, see things like obvious meth-mouth, women who look like they have been rode hard and out away wet, women who when they talk sound like they drink a couple of litres of whiskey and smoke a half-dozen packs a day, women who are obvious prostitutes that the guy thinks he has changed, etc. Some times it looks like a backwoods hill-billy shotgun wedding. Around town you see similar.

    Also, strangely enough, see the opposite despite this being a buyers market for women. For example: was at the local home improvement store a while back and observed the interaction of a couple. She was good looking, highly educated (have seen her at bar association meetings), and apparently had a good job (wearing shirt with the logo of one of the state’s bigger law firms). He was unshaven (admit that I don’t always shave on weekends), had scraggly hair, and generally looked to be a non-professional. He was constantly belittling her, she was looking at plants, and he was constantly telling her she was wrong, etc. Wound up scratching my head.

    The woman I had been interested in has basically gone into social interaction shut down mode. Don’t hear her say hi to anyone anymore, or really interact with people much. We work in the same building in departments that interact.

    I still wish that there was something I could do to make her better, but realized that there really isn’t. Seeing some of the things in her that I have displayed at times. As strange as it seems, I find myself saddened by that, because I know what it is like. Still have some conflicting emotions, which looking forward to potential future relationships, may need to be addressed.

    There is a part of me that is, is in a way, satisfied that she is expriencing these things. Sort of a feeling of you thought manipulating people was fun, well, now that this had come home to roost, you are realizing just how lonely life can be. In short it is the karma is a ***** thing.

    #110671
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    Can you imagine all these people you see, no matter how unattractive they look like and behave, were once cute little babies, naturally loving and lovable? Can you imagine…? I recently saw a baby who didn’t look that cute though, didn’t look good. On further thinking, I believe that baby was born with drugs in his system or else was already harmed, and it showed on his face. There was suffering on that little face already.

    Regarding the couple you saw, the educated woman with the unkempt man who kept putting her down- plenty of dysfunction to go around. Sometimes it shows on the person, unkempt appearance, foul mouth etc. and sometimes it doesn’t show- but on further observation, you see it.

    Regarding the woman you were interested in, seems like she is in some kind of trouble, emotional trouble. Too bad she didn’t reach out or continue to reach out to you. I am thinking she is living in such mental fog, maybe an overwhelm state, that she is shutting down. In that mental fog she didn’t or doesn’t see your love for her. Too bad for her.

    You wrote: “Seeing some of the things in her that I have displayed at times. As strange as it seems, I find myself saddened by that, because I know what it is like.”- Maybe it will be useful if you elaborate more on this?

    “Still have some conflicting emotions, which looking forward to potential future relationships, may need to be addressed.” – you mean the empathy on one hand and the karma-is-a-*&^% anger? Tell me more?

    anita

    #110738
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    I too expressed a disdain for people, that she seems to. Lived many years as a bitter person, ready to either lash out at people or just withdraw completely. I buried myself in diversions from dealing with people, much like she has with that house. To be honest, life sucked, and I would not wish that on anyone, having been through it.

    She feels targeted by people at work, and doesn’t like being there, indicating that she basically has to play a pretend game of liking being there. She told me that she has not been able to find a job with the same pay/benefits.

    She seems to walk around with a facial expression that is strained, not a smile and not really a frown, sort of between.

    Yes, I do feel a tension between the part of me that cheers about bad things happening to people who hurt me, and the newly discovered side of me that was l only noticed with this relationship of thinking about the effects on her. This new side doesn’t seem to make sense. Usually, I just kind of smile to myself when somebody who screwed me gets smacked around by life.

    #110761
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    It is quite natural to cheer about bad things happening to people who hurt us, at least a short-lived kind of cheering… wonder how many people who act so kindly are hiding that inner cheering while saying something very appropriate. I mean, when you get hurt, you naturally want to either run away/ withdraw and/ or fight, that is hurt back. So watching the person hurt is some solace.

    There is always a valid message to what we feel and this is what emotional intelligence is about: figuring the valid message. In the case of my first paragraph, the message is not that you are a bad person for feeling this way and it is not that you should behave in a hurtful way to her just so that she will be hurt. The valid message is that a person naturally gets angry when hurt and so, you are human.

    The fact that she and you share a disdain for people means to me that the two of you were significantly hurt by people you trusted in your individual lives and are quite closed… although you definitely opened up, cautiously, to the possibility of connecting.

    Curious about the thread you started, will go there next.

    anita

    #110763
    Claire
    Participant

    I think dating is like an evolution. Well, some would think that only the better-looking, young women and the fittest, richer alpha males won. But I see it in a different light. Superficial flashy attributes are easier to parade around. I met men who were wounded in the past by women and they grew to be bitter; and lo and behold, became commitment phobes, players, etc. I met women who were wounded by men in the past and became bitter and ended up wearing emotional metal jackets all the time.

    I think only a handful of people who managed to emerge victoriously from bad relationships, emotional issue, low self esteem, and so forth. Relationships are very taxing on self esteem because I think everybody is a social creature and we crave companionship. Being rejected hurts, end of story. Therefore only a few number of people managed to experience heart breaks and handled them while growing spiritually and emotionally. So it is easier to have a bad dating experience because it is just all about the statistics.

    #110934
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    Don’t think that I am afraid of commitment. I am just nervous of getting mentally beaten up again and again. I tend to think for the long term.

    What I am trying to figure out is why others I know are successful in finding SO’s and I am not. I think part of it is that I am so work focused I miss people.

    Saw a strange couple at lunch this week. Obviously on an early date. Both were talking about their DUI’s and she was talking about the previous times she had gotten pregnant in past relationships. Was thinking that we need more jail space for their potential offspring.

    I am not a terribly spiritual person, so not good with the whole spiritual development thing.

    I think that the disdain I feel for people at times comes from getting repeatedly screwed over at times. Most recently was planning on taking a week next month for a business trip not related to the job. Asked for some coverage on a case that floated up top for trial that week, and learned that the support would be basically settling it for peanuts.

    I am rapidly reaching the point where it feels like there isn’t much reason to open up and trust people in close relationships. I give a lot to the job and would give a lot to a relationship, but just feel like I get smacked around.

    She basically became cold as ice toward not just me but coworkers and others. I always say hi to the person up front in the office she works at since it is in the same building I am, and I have to pass by it. Everybody else is friendly, but when it rotates to her, I might as well not exist. I have basically given up the practice when that arrangement exists.

    Perhaps some of it is my fault. I reamed out some folks in the office she works at while she was over there. Screw up over there had caused significant problems at my end, which we got blamed for. Verbally lit them up including some outbursts of profanity. Had reached the point of extreme frustration and instead of better exercising the freedom to choose reactions, I let myself unleash hot verbal wrath on them. Not my proudest moment, but it did get results on the issue.

    Now I can see that scaring someone. Perhaps that explains things. At work, I am kind of known as having a firey temperament. Maybe she didn’t think that she could feel safe with me. That possiblity hurts. Of course, I can’t really blame her, I’d probably not like somebody who did that to my office folks.

    Continuing reading on emotional intelligence. Have found myself being less agitated in situations than before. Apparently have also become more soft spoken overall.

    #110952
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    Congratulations for finding yourself less agitated and more soft spoken overall! And for realizing that the expressions of your “fiery temperament” may be the reason for her (anyone’s) withdrawal from you. Before you wrote that she is bi-polar like, that she is unstable, basically.. and she may very well be. Her withdrawal from you may be because of both, her issues and your expressed fiery temperament.

    You wrote in your last post: “What I am trying to figure out is why others I know are successful in finding SO’s and I am not” – well, seems to me that the answer is in a recent post where you wrote: “I too expressed a disdain for people… Lived many years as a bitter person, ready to either lash out at people or just withdraw completely. I buried myself in diversions from dealing with people,” and in this post: “Now I can see that scaring someone. Perhaps that explains things.” Expressed anger, aggressiveness, hostility does scare people.

    You wrote that your usual or permanent (?) facial expression is grave. Well this is far from an invitation to people to connect with you and coupled with your verbal expressed bitterness, that seals the deal for social isolation.

    It is a good plan for you to indeed not become vulnerable and open to a whole lot of people, because they are likely to hurt you somehow. And that was indeed your childhood experience. So I repeatedly stressed the need to be selective with whom you open up to and the need to do it gradually with a selected few, one at a time, I suppose. You open up a bit, wait for a response. If the response is hurtful, unsupportive, you withdraw. If the response you get is empathetic, supportive, inviting, you open up a bit more. Then you wait etc.

    Choose with whom and choose the timing and relax that grave face with just one person at a time, one to one. Bit by bit, and evaluate after every such bit. Then continue, with caution.

    anita

    #110999
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    What doesn’t make sense is that we had interacted for about a year before. She had seen/heard me verbally torch people in the course of my job. I can’t figure out what made this one different from the others. Not saying that verbally torching folks is good, but can’t figure out why she would be nervous about that incident compared to others.

    First lunch had together was great. That was where she wanted to spend a weekend with me out of the country. Did hit some rockiness when she later said that my schedule probably wouldn’t permit it.

    To go from indicating an interest in spending a weekend away with me to treating me as if I was invisible still amazes me.

    Maybe I am putting more blame on myself than I should. The last communication I had with her was a lot of her complaining about how she doesn’t like the people out here, the lack of things out here, the lack of easily accessible cultural events, etc. Basically, the area was too backward for her liking.

    I have backed down on my verbal aggressiveness though. Not sure if it will do any good for anything or not. My reactions to stuff have been such for so long, I am not sure at this point that changes at this point will really matter.

    Been in a good bit of personal conflict over whether my views on life are correct or not, or whether it matters either way.

    There

    #111029
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    I don’t understand her behavior. Maybe she is that lost soul you suggested she is. Maybe she is overwhelmed with anxiety and depression and what not and moments in her day get dislodged from their continuity and evaporate into thin air. Maybe it is that “Adult ADD” I heard about.

    Can you get her attention and have one very concise conversation?

    What have you to lose? Get the information once and for all- if it is possible. If it is possible.

    anita

    #111050
    Cognition
    Participant

    Hey there,

    Generally speaking, most men (myself included) are analytical creatures that thinks in terms of cost/benefits and be in control of situations. These traits are great in business but kinda suck when trying to establish a relationship.

    Think about it in terms of being on the panel of a job interview. Every candidate you interview are qualified to do the job (otherwise why would you interview them?) but the one you end up hiring have a little something special that push them over the line. In most cases, it’s not because of their capabilities (though you may tell yourself that) but that somehow, you can see that this person will be good to work with and a fit in the team. In another words, you feel an emotional connection with this person

    Now applying this to the dating world, I would imagine that the women you are attracted to are not the ones that need a roof over their head or wonder where their next meal is coming from. So the whole having a good job thing is nice and get you a date but it’s definately no guarentee for a relationship.

    So the tricky question is, what gets you across the finish line? Firstly, accept that not every woman who agrees to date you will want a relationship with you because sometimes the chemistry is just not there and ppl at their 40s will not want to wastes their time forcing a connection. Secondly, if you are wearing an emotional armour to a date, women can usually see it a mile away and immediately file you under the too hard basket. When someone is unable to be authentic in their interaction with others (and you can’t do this unless you are willing to be vulnerable) it sets off all kinds of alarm bells because people will suspect what you are trying to hide which can range from a broken heart to a secret dungeon in your backyard. It also suggests a lack of confidence to be yourself which is a turn off for most people.

    Though books can help somewhat, emotional intelligence is more art than science. It’s scary to give someone a piece of yourself to hurt you and there is never any guarantee for success. But if you think about it, most woman have the courage to be in a relationship with a man, bear his children knowing that he could turn around and leave anytime or worst, abuse her, the risk men have to take compared to that is fairly minor.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 8 months ago by Cognition.
    #111153
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    You are right, we tend to be analytic. Throughout school, basically labeled as someone who didn’t think like everybody else. Crushed all of the intelligence tests. As long as the course’s subject didn’t involve subjective interpretations (or math), I did well.

    I am a prosecutor who specializes in complex appeals, drug, financial, computer, weapons, and homicide cases. I also do sex offender commitment. The more complex the case, the better my results. Not sure if it’s a blessing or a curse, especially when folks find out what I do and where I live. It’s not that uncommon to find me working on a project after hours with opera, organ music, or anime soundtracks cranked up (right now listening to the Macross soundtrack for example).

    Generally wear emotional armour so-to-speak. Every day on the job, I get lied to. I don’t flinch when looking at homicide photos. I have to make calls as to what to charge out and what not to. One attorney who used to be the state’s attorney out here said he gave it up because he reached the point where he didn’t believe anyone. Kind of know that feeling.

    Hehe, secret dungeon in the backyard. You will find a lot of things in the yard/basement, that is not one of them.

    Not 100% sure what “myself” is. Have been working on figuring that out. I know that I do have an issue with verbal hostility, which is probably something I developed over time. I know it has cost me quite a bit over the years and am working on figuring out how to permanently remove it and replace it with something better. Has gotten much better, but still a challenge when under stress.

    I remember a teacher long ago mentioning that I was a very giving person. Over time, I have become decidedly less so. Learned the hard lesson that people will gladly take, but won’t give in return. On the job learned that being generous toward the opposition results in later problems, and that to be giving in the workplace just results in getting taken advantage of. Family has taught me that giving just results in getting screwed.

    Anita is right that I need to get my house back to myself too. What was supposed to be temporary has turned out to be longer-term, been over a year and a half. Yet another example of getting lied to, this time by family. This is probably part of the reason I sometimes feel a disdain for people. In 2015, I spent probably close to $100,000 between paying the commission on the sale of the house in FL out of my share of the proceeds, helping with relocation and transportation, etc. Figured that it would help family members save money and figure out where they want to go. Turned out, I basically got screwed. It’s not the money so much, though I could certainly have used it, as it is the B.S.. I go to work and get lied to, I go home and get lied to.

    You are right, I’m not looking for women who are trying to figure out where their next meal, etc. is coming from. Doesn’t seem that there are many of those women out here. Really thought I might actually have found a partner with the last woman, but not so much. Haven’t really met anyone since then who is viable. Met a really great woman, but she works for the media, so that’s a non-starter. Also, ran into a woman at a restaurant a couple of weeks ago over the lunch hour who lit up to see me, I know her, but she works for an agency who brings cases to us for review which could be awkward. It’s a rare instance when a woman walks over and wants to sit down and talk.

    Now, I don’t really have the time. Preparing for a murder trial at the end of the month that is backstopped by a significant jury trial on a violent felony which is backstopped by an appellate appeal. Somewhere between now and then I’ve got at least one more trial scheduled for an armed drug dealer. The irony of the appeal is that it isn’t even in my normal sphere, I wound up being assigned it because the person who normally handles it was “too stressed.” Despite being “too stressed,” the person doesn’t spend that much time in the office, and just spent a weekend out-of-town with her partner.

    As far as risks go, that boils down to choosing better, and getting over the whole “fix-it” complex. Women who at least look they should know better, pairing up with tatted up freak shows with criminal histories thick enough to make body armour out of (in a buyer’s market for women no less). What do these women really expect to happen? I see it in men out here too, where they get desperate to have a partner and try to tame a prostitute, then wonder why they wind up in the situations they do. I know that there are no guarantees, but yikes. I know it may not be a popular position, but if you are a man/woman and are determined to start a relationship with somebody who has a known history of domestic violence, you made the choice to be beaten/abused.

    #111291
    Cognition
    Participant

    It sound like you spend quite a bit of time there, which may explain why most women you meet are from work. Like you said, dating women at work is not the best idea as thing can go downhill fairly quickly from personal experience.

    As for women making better choices, I think it’s safe say that their likelihood of making a mistake in partner is far greater than men simply because they generally have more options. Take Internet dating for example, on average women are 30-50 times more likely to be approached than men. If you have 50 women hitting on you on a regular basis, I’d say it would be hard to pick a winner all the time. In fact, I would say women are probably better at this than men since we tend to be visual creatures.

    The other consideration here is that if you expect every woman in the world to change your tune before diving in, you probably want to sit down. With your work it sounds like it’s going to be pretty hard to take the armour off in that environment so if you want to dig deeper, it maybe worthwhile to go to a new environment for a while like a holiday. It’s unrealistic to expect personal growth when everything around you is the same. As the saying goes, we don’t drown by falling in the water, we drown by staying there.

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