Dear Anita,

“- yes, it’d be sticky and stressful to get caught in a spider-web of contempt.”

• As I read this I again foresaw the potential feelings it would cause. “sticky” and eating at my energy, it would definitely be a low vibrational space to enter and I would feel this trying to pull me down, aware or not, very sticky.

“As far as N’s maturity, M is correct: he acts immaturely, at least post-breakup.”

• Noticing that I see myself get defensive whenever ‘I sense that something suggests’ (my personal bias) that N was mature in the relationship. Suggesting that I left a good situation, makes me feel self doubt. I am not saying this to impact how you phrase things I am just stating some self awareness.

I wrote: “A Teflon person like N and F, they claim to be simple, proud of their lack of needs, yet this is a complexity in itself..“- “lack of needs” and you replied: “? I am at a loss here.”

• They are proud of their ability to teflon. For example if I said something negative to N, whether it was that I don’t appreciate how he is late, or that I don’t like his outfit (I didn’t say things like this to him but I am trying to say whether the negativity was constructive or not it was tefloned) he would ignore my negative comment and continue with his day, aka teflon it. Whether that meant ignoring a rude comment (a positive teflon) or ignoring how his his use of the c-word made me feel (a negative teflon). And not only would he teflon it, but I think, he would be proud of his tefloning, proud he didn’t allow it to make him feel anything or affect his actions, proud he didn’t give anyones perceptions any control over him, including looking inward.

“- this has been N’s MO all along, hasn’t it? You’d tell him (as kindly and well-intentioned as can be): you are X (X being something requiring improvement), and his response: you are X!.. not mature (pre-breakup)”

• Most of the time yes. I want to change my perspective on what a lifetime partner will look like, both lower and higher my standards for this person. One that is higher, is I desire someone who can look within when I make a comment about their intentions or views, I don’t want to expect them to see things the same way as I do, but I want them to have the ability to express their perspective, if they do not agree with mine. Another higher standard, is I want someone who is not afraid to be their genuine self with me, just raw with their thoughts and comments, as opposed to someone who is trying to be something, whether it is politically correct, or humorous, or any sort of motive other than authentically how they think and feel. They don’t have to be perfect at expressing this as I am still learning to be completely honest with myself, but N showed me what it was like to be with a partner who was not willing to even admit they were not being honest with themselves. Someone who knows why they are doing something, not just working a job to follow societies instructions, I want someone brave enough to bring something to the world rather than just want to be part of it. I am craving honest conversation after a lack with N. A lack probably pre-dating N.

“giving me the opportunity to correct and see you better.”

I have patience for this, and at least like to think that I can sense/see when someone is at least trying, which is just as good.

“gave me the opportunity to open my 3rd eye wider. You made me a wiser person, wiser than I was, that is.”

• Ditto 🙂

“– this fits with what you shared earlier, that you were an obedient child/ daughter.”

• I was until I wasn’t. My dad was so strict about what I wore, what I watched, who I spent my time with and how much. I was  told to change my clothes, in middle school and early highschool, if the clothes were flattering on me. I am saying even jeans and a sweater…the straight jeans, not even super tight, were too flattering from behind, he whispered it to my mom and she asked me to change (not agreeing with him but pretending she did). I began changing my clothes at school and was caught a couple times when my mom brought me lunch once and I didn’t have time to change back, I didn’t get in trouble for that but she definitely looked me up and down. “Disobedient.” I had my first boyfriend at 17 and my dad calculated the amount of hours I spent and if it came friday and he asked me to go out and do something, my dad would say no, based on if he was feeling the amount of hours were excessive or not. He once told me I had 7 hours a week… So I began to lie about my location. Then he tracked my phone, so I would leave my phone at friends house to go to a movie with my boyfriend. My dad told me I was “disobedient,” in many difference ways. Again not seeing me at all, that I did my best to obey but I did have a limit I thought he was ridiculous and I would prefer the discipline, usually grounded from my phone or leaving the house.

“- his housecleaning sessions were about him being self centered and selfish, not about you being these things.”

• And so were his outfit inspections, because god forbid he be uncomfortable in his own house.

“- there are excellent exercises in doing just that, part of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). There are worksheets on the topic available online (I just checked).”

• I would like to do this. I have been attempting, with mild energy, to find therapy here. But I have this overwhelming feeling around it, of having to catch them up on my life.

“living with F, you tried to reach into F’s closed heart chakra, soften the rough interior there and remove the Teflon (maybe you forgot those efforts on your part). Fast forward, Teflon-minded N (with heart chakra difficulties) reminded you of F, awakening your motivation (hence the attraction) to reach out into N’s heart chakra, and remove his Teflon.”

• I am sure I have forgot some efforts I made to remove teflon, I can remember a few still, but F, when I made these attempts his response was as if he deserved it. Like I recognized his stress in meal prepping, so I meal prepped for him and instead of feeling my love he just acted like I owed that to him. Discouraging me from trying to do it again. The housecleaning was then all the things he deserved that I did not do.

” I think that N was/ is emotionally numb chronically, and his way of taking breaks from his chronic numbness is to put himself and others in situations that are physically risky.”

• I think so too. The other day I was thinking back to when I told him I loved him. I remember the day so clearly, I was shopping at michaels for some christmas decorations to brighten up his apartment. That morning was going to be our Christmas together before individually going to see our families. The night before I made him an apron, I collected these iron-on patches that reminded me of him and decided to put them all together on an apron, he is a really good cook (so is F, which was a strange similarity between them…) That night I decided to spell out, “I love you” on the apron, I obviously did love him, look what I was making him, that night I decided that I loved him. The next day, at Michaels, I was trying to decided how I was going to deliver this message, I wanted to tell him before he opened the gift. I decided that it would be accurate to tell him that I was falling in love with him, and as I was in that process I loved him. It may seem a strange way to say it, but my reasoning was that I couldn’t conclude that I was “in love” with him. I loved him like I love my friends and I was attracted to him, which made it a beyond friend love relationship. When I said that I was falling in love with him, and that I loved him, his face lit up and he responded “I love you too, I waited for you to say it first so not to pressure you.” In the moment and in the relationship, I saw that as a sweet response. But now that I know him better, my retrospective awareness wonders if that was really why he hadn’t told me he loved me, before me, it wasn’t to spare my feelings as he so kindly phrased it, it was out of fear that he chose not to say it before… his emotional numbness was there from the beginning but I couldn’t see it, it took feeling it after two years for me to see it. I can only imagine the greatness in a future relationship with a partner who can share emotions with me. F and N both told me that was too much to ask, so I did my best to lower my needs.

“- it’s hard for an emotionally numb person to compliment and flirt in any way that comes across as natural. When he tried, it came across icky.”

• Exactly, “unnatural.” It was moments like these that he would say something that was as if it were a performance and the performance was not even geared towards me.

“- because for him, being chronically numb… love is not a feeling…???”

• Exactly.

“We communicated for so long, often very long posts, that we.. or I end up going in circles sometimes. For example, on Oct 19 last year, I wrote about the “Teflon Mind (TM)” in regard to N. Fast forward to yesterday, March 7, I was back to the same concept, calling it “chronically numb“, going full circle”

• I see what you are saying. I like to see it as more of an upward spiral, it is like reading a dense book, and every time you re-read it you understand more, and recall things that stuck with you. Calling it “chronically numb” feels more satisfying to me because it sounds more unacceptable than Teflon Mind. Chronically Numb is more of what it felt like to me, “chronic,” he is not changing, a part of what Teflon Mind doesn’t quite capture for me. But anyways, I see that going in circles is beneficial to me, not to you, so I don’t wan to take you into circles with me. I may have some circles to still complete. However, since our text conversation, then having two weeks where I allowed my thoughts to consume me, it has brought me to a place of wanting to recognize my thoughts and not participate. I am on a new journey to let go, and cleanse my psyche of him, instead of allowing myself to regress.

Your whole last post copy and pasted:

“suddenly, this N guy appears in my mind and It’s like I had a vision of ripping a green vine off a branch, as if it was premature, and not ready to be discarded, and I listened to that vision and decided to give N one more chance” (July 29, 2023)-

– suddenly, this N guy appeared in your mind, and it was like you had a vision of making wine out of sour grapes?

The sour grapes being F’s/N’s inability to connect with you positively and genuinely?

In the image, it was premature to give up on creating a positive, genuine connection with F by proxy of N (N as a substitute for F), so you decided to give F one more chance (by proxy of N), and you ended up with an unpleasant tasting wine…?

• The vision wasn’t grapes, it was like a tiny little plant popping out of the earth that I was about to tear out of the ground before it could grow into… something that I thought could be fruitful. It is possible it was a second chance to F.. very possible.

Seaturtle