Forum Replies Created
April 12, 2021 at 6:15 am #377526
Fascinating post by TeaK, I did not make that connection before, that your “unrelenting shame” as you termed it, may have its origin so early in your life, having experienced your germophobic mother being repulsed by her baby’s bodily functions. It fits with what you wrote Nov 2, 2019: “From a young age, I can remember hating my mother. I found her repulsive and often outright rejected her”- you may have experienced and reciprocated her repulsion when still a baby. (You mentioned an older brother. If her repulsion of a baby’s bodily functions was intense, I wonder how she was able to bring herself to have a second baby, and I wonder if your older brother expressed similar shame to yours).
Regarding your recent post: “I feel like I am being frustrating.. I am still confused.. my mind goes blank… I am sorry if it feels like you are talking to a wall”-
– Nov 2, 2019, you wrote regarding your Fantasy Mother: “There is an unspoken understanding between her and I, she knows me so well that we do not even need to talk to communicate”-
– Maybe you prefer to not talk, because talking in the past, particularly with your mother, was a very frustrating, unrewarding experience: you expressed yourself honestly and she turned against you. So you prefer to not talk. And when you read my recent longer post to you, you clammed up, maybe angrily.
Back to your Fantasy Mother, Nov 2, 2019, you wrote that you often wish that she would take you home with her, the two of you making dinner together, she sees you, she understands and supports you, she unceasingly cares for you, she “allows space” for you.
If you want to, please answer the following questions:
1) what do you mean by your Fantasy Mother allowing space for you (Nov 2, 2019)
2) “I imagine if I did have a fantasy mother around, I would feel as if I was living my life for her/ she would give my life meaning” (Nov 6, 2019)- can you elaborate on this sentence as much as you can?
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 8:10 pm #377519
In your second post you wrote that the relationship has “never .. been about sex”, but in your first, original post, you wrote: “we do message about sex as we used to have amazing sex, and we both want to do that again”-
– there is a contradiction here: on one hand you had amazing sex and he (as well as you) wants it again, and on the other hand the relationship has never been about sex.. I don’t understand. If you would like to explain what appears to me a contradiction, please do, best you can.
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 8:01 pm #377518
I am looking forward to read your recent posts and reply when I am back to the computer, in about 10 hours from now.
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 7:58 pm #377517
Don’t worry about frustrating me, I am not frustrated with you and I understand the mind going blank. Maybe when you are calm and more focused, you car re-read my recent post. Maybe I didn’t explain things well enough. I can try to be more clear. Let me know.
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 11:54 am #377505
* I am about to leave, but happened to read your recent post quickly, it ends with “I know it’s pathetic”- no, your feelings are not pathetic, not at all. Your feelings and life experience are precious, not pathetic. Will be back in about 8 or 19 hours.
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 11:26 am #377503
I will be able to read and reply to you in about 8 hours from now, or as long as 19 hours from now.
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 9:34 am #377489
In your previous thread, “How to FEEL love?”, on July 29, 2017, you shared that you told your mother that you didn’t feel loved as a child, and she admitted that indeed it was true: she didn’t show you affection, left you alone a whole lot and so on.
“After this conversation”, you wrote back in July 29, 2017, “I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off of me.. I finally have the permission to stop blaming myself, and to really begin to love myself through empathy.. It finally feels like it’s not all my fault”.
Later on, in March 2020, you shared that conversations with her were “always criticism of what I’m doing to hurt her and never about the abundance of things I’ve done right… she is always complaining about us and how we treat her. I’m sick of it and don’t feel like defending myself anymore against her opinions of me”.
Those conversations did not start in March 2020, but way closer to March 2017. The relief you felt following the March 2017 conversation did not last long because she did not change her behavior, she kept blaming you and guilt- tripping you after allegedly taking responsibility for hurting you throughout your childhood. Her alleged admission of Feb 2017 served only to confuse you and delay your healing.
Her words and that bit of crying in Feb 2017 was not significant enough in her mind and heart, to motivate her to change her misbehavior toward you. To me, this means that she was not sincere back then or since. Your ongoing contact with her keeps hurting you because you are dealing again and again, and yet again, with an insincere woman who doesn’t really care for you or about you, not enough to stop hurting you. Every time you communicate with this woman, you are hurting yourself more.
True, ending contact with her is far from being a magical solution, but it has to be a beginning. Also, you can’t see yourself as you truly are before you see her as she truly is. The truth shall set you free from sickness based on.. false thinking and false beliefs.
Backing away from the topic of your mother, regarding hope and depression: you keep comparing yourself unfavorably to other people. When I was most depressed and comparing myself unfavorably to everyone else, at one point, I let go of hoping to have a better life/ to catch up to others. Once I gave up the hope, my life didn’t improve as a result, but I felt much better. It was a great relief.
Connected to this, a certain story made an impression on me at the time: someone asked, how do you free yourself from a jail cell? The answer was something like, stop wanting/ hoping to get out. For a person in a jail cell, the desire and hope to get out of the cell is a source of suffering. Once a person accepts an unfavorable circumstance, the torture lessens a whole lot.
I hope you are okay, noname. And this hope is not causing me suffering. It makes me smile as I imagine you smiling, carefree, if only for a moment.
April 11, 2021 at 8:42 am #377488
- This reply was modified 21 hours, 52 minutes ago by anita.
I am glad to read from you earlier than usual, I was thinking earlier about sending you a message, to ask how you are feeling.
I think that it is an excellent choice to rest for the rest of the evening and night, and that it is better if you rest tomorrow as well, instead of going to work, because going to work tired and having a cold is likely to make you nervous at work (even though I expect that your second negative Covid test result tomorrow).
You are a responsible person, caring about testing yourself twice before considering going back to work. I am looking forward to read from you tomorrow. Good night, Lily.
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 8:24 am #377484
Recently, he told you the following: (1) he cares deeply for you, and “it’s not all about sex”, (2) he wants to have sex with you but does not want to risk your friendship, (3) the two of you fit so well together, (4) he is not sure if he can do a relationship with you because his guard is up.
You wrote: “I don’t understand what’s going on”. Here is my best guess as to what is going on:
He wants to have sex with you and he does not want to have a committed relationship with you. He wants to have a friends-with-benefits relationship with you, as in two good friends having sex once in a while, no expectations, no pressure, just friendly fun.
What do you think about my understanding?
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 8:11 am #377480
I am not going through all that you are going through, but then no two people go through the exact, same life experience. I do know how it feels to be uninspired, having been depressed for very long periods of time, and I suffer from a neurological disorder as well. I am not a mother, while you brought five children into the world.
If you would like, please share more about your life, any part of it, and if you want input on what you share, let me know. I hope other members reply to you as well.
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 6:59 am #377476
May 8-9, 2018, regarding a different man, a breakup: “I am not able to move on, especially because I dream about him every day, I wake up feeling awful then I work on being better and then again as soon as I am not busy. The question that why could he not call or text even once bothers me so much that it is hard to sleep well.. I always have had the fear of being left alone all my life“.
April 11, 2021: “I have a strong fear of being left alone in life.. loneliness haunts me“.
You survived the separation from the first man, and you will survive a separation from the current man. You survived a strong fear of being left alone for more than two decades, and you will continue to survive it.
To do better than just surviving, attend to that strong fear, and if/ when you feel like it: share more about this strong fear, how it feels in your body, what thoughts this fear brings about, what kinds of thoughts and activities awakens/ strengthens it, what kinds of thoughts and activities lessen it, etc.
Do keep in touch, IpkRO9!
anitaApril 11, 2021 at 6:18 am #377474
The two topics, shame and passion are connected- shame does keep passion down, or kills it quickly if and when it awakens.
Like you, I also did a lot of things that were shameful. It is not that I determined that those shameful acts were not my actions, or that I was not responsible for them.
Thing is, my mother introduced shame into me before I did those shameful acts, when I was, like I wrote earlier, “100% innocent and loving and eager to please her”. In other words, in the process of healing, I went back in time, all the way back to the time I was a young child, remembering how she shamed me when there was nothing to shame!
* If you can’t go back in time this way, think about what you do remember your mother shaming you for: were you responsible for what she shamed you for, was any of it your fault? If not, then your mother is not beyond shaming you as a young child for what you were not responsible for.
Back to me, that early, undeserved shame hurt terribly, a shock to the system, really. From then on, with repeated messages of shame, I was mentally unwell, confused, desperate, in pain, and therefore likely to act in shameful ways. And I did.
By going back in time to the time before I did anything shameful, I gave myself the stamp “innocent”, or “okay”, and then, later I forgave myself for the shameful acts I did and for hurting other people. It was difficult, but I finally did it: I forgave myself because of the hard work I’ve been doing healing, starting in 2011. The difficult and long work on healing myself is what earned me self-forgiveness.
Plus, when there is nothing you can do to correct past actions, feeling shame and guilty is not useful, it doesn’t do anything that’s good for anyone.
“I do wonder if our situations are different, because I think I have done a lot to be ashamed of. Maybe there have been some times that people shamed me for things that I did not deserve to be shamed for, but I do see those times as clearly as I have seen the shameful I have done”-
– so far then, our situations are not different: (1) as an older child, through adolescence and adulthood, I did lots of shameful things, and (2) there were plenty of people who shamed me for what I was not responsible for (people who were mean, people who selfishly took advantage of the fact that I was mentally/ emotionally unwell).
“is there something to you that indicates that I was shamed or given shame in a similar way to you?”-
Yes, let’s take just one of your posts, on Nov 2, 2019, you wrote: “From a young age, I can remember hating my mother”- no child hates her mother at a young age unless her mother terribly hurt her many times earlier, which means, at a very early age.
No child is shameful and guilty at a very young age. (I too hated my mother, very intensely, for many years. It was difficult to live with all that anger on top of the shame and guilt).
“As a child, I often wished my parents would divorce and that my dad would re-marry someone else. I do not know what this really says about her, though. This is still about me”- it says that she was a bad mother to a good child. (I too wished to have had a different mother).
“I tried to talk to her in various conversations to tell her how I felt. I tried to explain.. I would tell her that I felt hurt by her. Her response to this was always something like ‘I hurt you? You hurt me!”-
– this is you as an older child or a teenager, trying to connect with your mother, trying to heal the relationship with her, and her reaction: NO! Before that age, as a young child (not with elaborate words and thoughts, but in simpler ways) you tried to connect with her many, many times, you tried hard to make her love you, and you failed- not because there was something wrong with you, but because there was something wrong with her.
Look at her reaction: “I hurt you? You hurt me!”- what kind of a reaction is that? Is this a reaction of a loving mother who has any concern for her daughter’s well-being? Or is it a reaction of an immature girl-mother talking to her daughter as if both were immature teenagers, saying: I didn’t do it! You did!
Talking about shame- her reaction was shameful!
Overall, your mother is extremely self-centered, shaming and guilt-tripping, so what I know about her tells me a lot about who you are: that at an early age, before you did anything shameful, you were already her victim, terribly hurt through no fault of your own.
anitaApril 10, 2021 at 8:27 pm #377466
Did you read my recent post of an hour ago? I will reply to your most recent post (and anything you may add to it) when I am back to the computer, in about 10 hours from now. Please try to relax best you can. You will be okay, you will see!
anitaApril 10, 2021 at 7:30 pm #377463
I just read your question for me. I will answer your question without thinking much. If you want me later to elaborate, let me knnow.
I remember unrelenting shame, how tormenting it was, and not too long ago- it felt like an ongoing burning in the heart, a certain pain that is hard to describe. Overcoming shame: basically what it took was for me to understand, really understand (and believe my understanding to be true) that the person who shamed me, the person who introduced shame into my heart- my mother- she was the one who was wrong, not me. As a child, I was 100% innocent and loving and eager to please her, and it was she who messed it up, it was she who betrayed my love for her.
I gave the shame back to the one who introduced it into my life- it is hers, not mine.
What I just wrote, it took years to figure out, but it doesn’t have to take this long for you.
anitaApril 10, 2021 at 2:47 pm #377458
My therapist of 2011-13 taught me this equation:
Wise Mind= Rational Mind + Emotional Mind
– meaning to choose wisely we need to consider logic plus our emotions, not one or the other.