@Sammy1

The fact of the matter is, like many intelligent women, you at some point went against your instincts, the red flags, and got caught up in his emotional woes wanting to probably do what women do instinctively “fix”, which in the end blinded you and lead to you becoming attached. Once those feelings arise it can make it very difficult to let go.

I am not sure I wanted to “fix” him, but it was sure nice to have him as a friend, and I thought I could stick to the fine line of being a friend without getting involved too much, at least until he had figured his “separated” vs “divorced” status. Life proved me wrong.

But I did get a lot out of it. It was my consolation in the end – when he pulled away for good – that we were even. He was a very good listener to my breakup story with ‘A’. I think I mentioned before that I credit him with being a therapist for me. He did move my focus from ‘A’ to himself like a therapist would, but since he was no therapist, he couldn’t do anything to dissipate that new focus. The good news is that we never became involved too deeply, no sex took place, so it was not too hard to let go (compared to a full-fledged invested relationship).

Whereas he like a typical man was able to compartmentalise. He took advantage of the best of both worlds. He didn’t stop to think of the implications it would have on you by sharing such deep things. This is normally done in intimate relationships.

Excellent point! He is sure great at compartmentalising.

When we cuddled, he shared that he had only been intimate with two women in his life – his wife and that girl in 2010. I thought it was a good thing, him being so selective and restrained. Of course, he could have lied.

I shared that ‘A’ had been my only sexual partner so far, and I had only kissed two other men in my life before him. These other two men and I went further than kissing, but not so far as having sex. I don’t know if he thought I was promiscuous? With two men kissed on the lips and one intimate with in all the 30 years of my life at the time?

Who cares if he thinks you’re under his spell, as long as you did this for your own healing.

If his ego is that big he is assuming that you are under his spell, rather than reflecting on what hurt and damage he caused by his actions then that’s another reason for you being well rid!!

At the beginning, he expressed surprise that I had wanted to meet in person. He said he thought I wanted a letter of recommendation from him or something like that.

And when I started talking about our intense communication five years ago, I felt the vibes of something along the lines of “Oh, that’s what it is! I wonder if she still can’t get over that case!?! Couldn’t she really have been hung up on me for these five years???”

One more note. When he recalled the news I let him know last year, it was about a coworker of ours who had recently given birth. He had worked much more with her than with me – and he struggled to recall her name! On the one hand, I was flattered that he remembered so much about me and “us.” On the other hand, I also recalled how in 2015, he, probably wanting to establish a better rapport, had tried to convince me that he and I had had a big project together, which in fact we didn’t. I corrected him right away then. That was a red flag for me, too. I think he knew that he was bringing this up wanting to look good, but it didn’t look good. People-pleaser? Also, the reason for him giving in to his wife and friends’ admonitions to make up?

When he mentioned that coworker, he kind of nodded towards me, sort of “And what about you? In a relationship? Kids?” But he didn’t say anything.

Have no idea what he thought in the end. I might have been just as well clearing my mental space because it was in the way of a new relationship, might I have not?

I felt that he was intently watching for my reaction when he mentioned his girlfriend. I am glad I had my sunglasses on. I didn’t flinch, just nodded and shrugged as if it was totally expected and I didn’t care in the least.

I thought it was also funny that he seemed to be genuinely interested in how things were going in our organisation, covid and all. I thought he would ask just one question and maybe a follow-up as small talk, but he asked quite a lot. I had the impression that it was actually me who was more impatient to get to the reason for our meeting than he was.

Learning an ex is in a new relationship goes a few ways; if you genuinely care you’re happy for them or you feel jealousy it wasn’t you or you reach a point of indifference and don’t give AF!

Great point! I am 80% indifferent and the rest is split between very light jealousy (mingled with uncertainty about what I would be feeling if I were with him – possibly lots of anxiety, but I am not sure, I am in sort of turpor right now) and curiosity as to who the girl is. Wouldn’t it be Hollywood-like if it were the one from 2010? Albeit with lots of direct damage (his wife, his daughter who was only 6 or 7 at the time) and collateral (for instance, me).

The meeting will have made all your emotions raw and it is human to hurt after realising he really wasn’t into you yet gladly used you.

I suppose it was more the fact of rejection. For a day or so, I had the same feeling I had had when one of the guys from a quasi-relationship said he didn’t want me and when A announced that he was now in love with another woman and couldn’t care less about me.

It is much better now. It definitely helps that we never went too far and that it has been almost exactly five years since he went MIA for good.

Tbh most men are incapable of undertaking the growth @Tim1 and @Dannydan did.

This is what concerns me a lot. There are already more women than men. Women are generally more self-aware than men. So the chances to find somebody like @Tim1 and @Dannydan are tending towards zero.

I’m sorry he didn’t offer you a truer apology in person or accountability like they did.

This is true, he didn’t. He apologised just because it was polite to apologise. I doubt he is going to think back about what he had done and decide he also needed some soul-searching – like @Dannydan. But who knows?…

However he offered you insight into what he was and is – he isn’t worthy of you.

Agree.

Another thought came across. He said I had been vocal about what I wanted, he had told me right away that he didn’t want to marry.  He reiterated when we met now three days ago that it was never his intention to marry.  Copped out of any potential responsibility when sensing I was falling for him by saying “I just can’t have a serious relationship now”.

Which prompted a few questions from me back then in 2015.

You see, everywhere – in forums, articles, even in a similar Tiny Buddha thread, people use the phrase “I don’t want to be in a relationship.” He used “can’t have” and “now.” Which made me ask whether these were the key words. And he didn’t reply to it.

The thought is that, in addition to yet one more attempt to reconcile, he may have thought I was not the one because he wasn’t ready for anything serious, wanted casual and could see that I was strictly relationship material?

I couldn’t help but think about the vibes I was getting from him during our meeting and before when our paths had crossed after he had pulled away.

When we met a couple of times in the autumn of 2016, half a year since our meeting before that and about half a year after he had ghosted me, why would he approach me and then avoid me and blush and fidget when talking to me if he had decided I was not the one? He didn’t protest when I said I had noticed it this week.

Can’t tell about blushing this week, no fidgeting, but as I look back, I realise that he was standing erect and immobile as a statue, never shifting weight from one leg to another or crossing his arms or hiding his arms behind his back as I was doing. And we talked for 30-40 minutes.

He was just as serious as he was when we cuddled and talked, not a single joke cracked.

Again, it may be wishful thinking and even if it is, it is not more wishful thinking after this meeting than it was before when I had already started to forget him, but I have a feeling now that I am back on his list of potential partners. You know, like they say that every man has a list of women he turns to when he is single. Not for comfort, but to see whether they would fit as a new partner. Like they suggest not to forget one’s friends, especially single ones, to look around in one’s already established circles of friends and acquaintances.

He has a highly analytical mathematical mind. He probably agrees now that he is not the mess he was in 2015-2016 (he may be a different mess, but that’s a different story). And I am not the mess I was back then. He definitely liked my appearance. He had always been attracted to me. If it is a serious relationship he wants now and if he and his girlfriend don’t work out, I wouldn’t be surprised if he contacts me.

At least, I did jog his memory (not that he had forgotten about me, but he probably brushed me aside – “nope, not that one”) and made him see me in a new light.

This is my main takeaway. Our meeting helped me to see him the way he is now (also with me) and he could see and check the perception that he had conserved of me against me in 2021.

Again, need @Dannydan here – men hardly ever fall in love at first sight, do they? It happens gradually.

If his mind tells him I am worth pursuing, he may as well try that and see how it develops this time.

Goes without saying that I am no more expecting him to contact me at any time in the future than I was before the meeting.

And goes without saying that I will have to put him through a lot if he does.

If you need any other advice let me know but I’m not frequenting TB as I was but happy to always support anyone x

@Sammy1, I am about to be done with this situationship, but if you come up with any other comments, I’d be grateful. You are terribly insightful and give very good advice that makes a lot of sense.

I am also looking forward to @Dannydan’s comments from a male’s perspective, so that I can wrap it up for good.