Dear Murtaza:

How nice, that you opened your post with my name and a dear in front.. it makes me feel good. Before I attentively read and respond to your post, I want to share with you that this morning, before I got up, as I was listening to the loud chirping of birds from the outside, I remembered that you shared about the pharmacist who went out of way a bit to get your prescription filled- how moved you were, and on another occasion, how you reached out to some man outside your home and helped him somehow (I don’t remember the details), and I wished you would post because I wanted to tell you that maybe helping other people irl can make you feel good, even if you help this or that person just a bit.

I just shared with you (the above) what went through my mind first thing in the morning, I am sharing it because I thought you might like it that I thought about you first thing in the morning.  I am not suggesting that you follow my thought with any action, there is no pressure whatsoever that you do anything about my thought.. it was just a thought. So, you are welcome to ignore the above, it will be perfectly fine with me. (No need to argue with me about it!)

And now, to the rest of your post: I will be reading it all, but I will not respond to every single item, not when I feel that I will be repeating myself, or if I don’t understand a particular point or see a benefit in responding to it, same for future posts. If you want me to respond to a particular item that I ignored, let me know in your next post what it is.

“I’m gonna try to be as honest as I can”- good, me too.

“I do think my thinking is wrong… wrong by society standards”- I agree: society says it’s wrong for you to not be employed, but it doesn’t mean that it is really is wrong for you to be unemployed: you decide for yourself.

“my thinking is right for my life and experience, and I believe there isn’t an objective one (correct me if I’m wrong in any points I make)”- I agree that your thinking regarding your life needs to fit you as an individual, and not a societal standard, as long as your behavior that results from your thinking is not asocial (ex.: you think that it’s right for you, as an individual, to ride your motorcycle fast any time you wish no matter what. As a result of this thinking, you run over a person and injures him/ her- that’s wrong thinking resulting in wrong behavior).

“I’m only asking for the truth, what’s the truth? I don’t love myself according to societal love to oneself?”- I read earlier that you wrote that you do love yourself by making your life as easy as possible, and by trying to lessen your suffering. I agree that these things mean that you love yourself.

“This bothers me because they usually don’t provides anything against my main argument, they don’t provide any logic to why I’m wrong, just ‘oh no you can’t do that, you must do that’ why should I do that? No answer”- if your questions are clearly stated, and a person answers you unsatisfactorily again and again, stop asking that particular person. (You may disagree with what I just stated, and that’s fine. Don’t argue with me about it).

When I wrote to you: “Murtaza then says: no, you are wrong, you don’t know what you are talking about!”- I didn’t mean that you, Murtaza, is wrong. I did and do suggest that arguing is useless. Basically, you disagree with societal norms, and therefore with lots of society disagrees with you, so.. let it be: agree to disagree. Select who you are interacting with instead of interacting with everybody and arguing.. and arguing.

“I’m very careful about who I’m spending my time with, I usually disregard anyone who shows any sign of norimeness, not worth honestly”- I didn’t notice this in your thread. Regarding your treatment of people exhibiting “norimeness”- if it looks like the person means well, send them a short post saying thank you, a polite acknowledgement- instead of ignoring them or replying rudely. This is my suggestion and I would like it if you followed my suggestion, but I am okay with it being your personal choice to follow it, or not.

“I’m already fixated on death.. most of them just disregard my argument as depression or suicidal thoughts”- it is not a good idea to bring up suicide as an okay item to consider on a public forum. Let’s say such discussion is okay for you, but you don’t know who is reading and what their minds and lives are like.. so, discuss this privately, not publicly.  Because this is what I believe- I will not participate further in such discussion on your thread/ in these forums.

“I didn’t expect.. you getting angry at me, I did expect and still do, that you would stop talking to me, but to think I’m bad is another, should expect more bad things“- I didn’t understand the part I italicized, but as to getting angry at you and no longer talking to you: yes, I was angry at you. I thought that I will never post to you again. Fast forward a few days, and here I am, not angry at you at all and posting to you. I might get angry at you again. Maybe as I read the rest of your post (I read one part, respond, then I read the next part, respond and so forth. I’ll let you know when it happens next that I feel anger at you).

“I would imagine that your reaction the other day ‘anger’ was your choice? You might say, ‘the reaction to your words wasn’t my choice but how I reacted to it was my choice’…”- I feel some anger now because you are arguing again! You don’t even need me to participate in the argument, you imagine what I would say and argue with what you imagined I said (“You might say.. I would say..”).

Okay, so now I am angry but not too angry, as I am not thinking of no longer replying to you. Yet, I am taking a few moments to calm down, look outside the glass door at the trees in the fog, reminding myself to not rush just because I feel angry… sh.. calm down. Okay, seems that your anger was triggered by my mentioning of Free Will. It has to be that you and I have different definitions of Free Will. I am guessing that your anger in regard to the term is valid, only that what you mean by it, is not what I mean by it.

I tried to understand your argument: “then I would say ‘that your choice of reacting… would you do differently? If so why didn’t you? I wonder. I think that this is what I’m talking about when I say that we don’t have freewill, there is simply so many factors that influence our actions that outside of our control, and there is no one to pull the trigger behind any of those actions, just desires and beliefs competing”- I didn’t understand this fully, but.. right now I am not angry because I think I understand enough (and correct me if I am wrong):

The term free will triggered your anger because when a person X uses the term, believing that it exists, what it means to you is that X is telling you that you are to blame, that it is your fault.. it’s the guilt you referred to before.

I will offer you my definition of free will, try to calm down as you read it, and let me know if it is different from your definition. I will use the word emotion to mean energy (as in e-motion, or energy in-motion), and motion to mean an action/ a behavior.

Free will: the possible human ability to pause between an emotion and the motion that the emotion calls for, and choose a different motion or no motion at all. For example: I feel angry at the dog=> I want to hit it (and I know I will get away with it unhurt)=> I don’t hit the dog.

If you think of my definition above and the example, you can see that you practice free will (according to my definition) all day long.

I ask that before you reply to me (if you do, I never expect it, but would like it if you reply)- please calm down, don’t type away when you are under the influence of anger because it hurts the possibility of honest, clear communication.

*Oh, there is more to your post, more arguing, seems to me: “millions of people suffer… why even try to compare? And I hate when someone says ‘I was like you’, NO, and you never will.. whenever a person starts to advise and say that ‘I was like you’, thats a red flag that he is a norime, I’m not saying that he isn’t suffering, nor that my suffering is greater, I just don’t like it when they start projecting”-

– seems to me that what triggers your anger when someone says “I was like you”/ when another person compares themselves to you, is that it feels like the person comparing is negating you, cancelling you.. like you disappear because of the comparison.  It is like it is either you are valid or the other person is valid. Maybe it is something we can talk about further.

As to what you are trying to get out of posting, you wrote: “hoping that I somehow get the solution, the love… remind me of this saying ‘people look for love in strange places when they didn’t have in their childhood'”- love is a strange thing. How do you know when it’s there for you, can you tell.. if it goes away, was it ever there.. when it returns, will it stay?

Let’s see what happens, think of this as an experiment: I felt love for you, then I didn’t, then I did again, and as a result of all this, I feel wiser and more capable of understanding you. What’s next will be determined by you and me if we continue to be honest with each other and avoid typing away when under the influence of anger.

anita

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