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  • #368890
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Anagha Sonde:

    It is close to to 5 pm my time, Monday afternoon, and it is close to 6:30 am your time. I read the second paragraph of your recent post and am sad about you feeling abandoned by your Lord Krishna, so sorry you suffer this way. I spent a lot of time in the Los Angeles Hare Krishna Temple and enjoyed a lot of time there. I want to do some research  before I reply to your second paragraph, and I will do so when I feel rested tomorrow morning, in about 14 hours from now. Please be good to yourself today.

    anita

    #368911
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Anagha Sondi:

    You shared that your name, Anagha is a Sanskrit word that means “sinless”, that you are a Hindu and a Vaishnavite: a follower of Lord Vishnu. As a child, you fell in love with Lord Krishna who is an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. You felt that your body belonged to Lord Krishna, and “only He has rights over it”. You believed that Lord Krishna resides in your “brain, heart, and vagina”, and that sex with any mortal man was a sin and will make you impure.

    When you met your ex boyfriend, a good looking mortal man, you had sexual activity with him, betraying your devotion to Lord Krishna. You then “went looking for answers” from Lord Krishna, and He told you: “that the only mistake I had done in life is to give His place in my life to my ex-boyfriend”. As a result, you feel “dirty and sinful from the inside”, that you are abandoned by Him, no longer having His support, and therefore you are not moving toward enlightenment and Nirvana”.

    You identified yourself as a Vaishnavite, a follower of Vaishnavism aka Vishnuism. According to Wikipedia, it is one of the major Hindu denominations; close to 70% of Hindus are Vaishnavites who consider Vishnu as the Supreme Lord, devoted to Vishnu and his avatars.

    “Vaishnavism precepts include the avatar (incarnation) doctrine, wherein Vishnu incarnates numerous times, in different forms, to set things right and bring back the balance in the universe”. These Avatars include Krishna. Some followers of Vaishnavism believe that Vishnu is the supreme deity and Krishna is his avatar (for some Krishna is the most important avatar), and others believe that Krishna is an independent and supreme deity, not an avatar.

    Krishna is thought of as “the god of compassion, tenderness, love”. “The legends of Krishna’s childhood and youth describe him as a cow herder, a mischievous boy whose pranks earns him the nickname Makhan Chor (butter thief).. Other legends describe him as an enchanter and playful lover of the gopis (milkmaids).. Krishna’s childhood illustrates the Hindu concept of lila, playing for fun and enjoyment and not for sport or gain… This lila is a constant theme in the legends of Krishna’s childhood and youth.

    As an adult, the Bhagavata Purana describes eight wives of Krishna, “According to George Williams, Vaishnava texts mention that all Gopis as wives if Krishna… All of his wives and his lover Radha are considered in the Hindu tradition to be avatars of the goddess Lakshmi, the consort of Vishnu”. “There are numerous versions of Krishna’s life story, of which three are most studies.. They share the basic storyline but vary significantly in their specifics, details, and styles.

    A Krishna. com website lists questions and answers regarding Krishna and sex:

    1) How is it possible to control sex desire? – .. avoid thinking about or seeing the opposite sex.. get a higher taste from spiritual activities.. Try to engage the mind in practical service, as well as hearing and chanting about Krishna. The more we do that, our mind will have less time to contemplate the objects of the senses. Don’t purposefully go places or do things that you know will agitate your mind sexually… Sex desire is something we’ve been involved with for many lifetimes. It’s not like it will disappear suddenly. But it becomes easier to tolerate as we absorb our mind in a positive spiritual way..”

    2) Does Krishna consciousness forbid marriage and sex? – No, marriage is all right. But sex outside of marriage binds one to this material world and so is counterproductive from the spiritual point of view… Simply put, if you get married and engage in sex for fun instead of producing a child, that act will make you more materialistic. It will cause you to identify yourself more with your body and more as an independent enjoyer rather than servant of God, the supreme enjoyer… sex for producing children that are taught God consciousness is a spiritual experience, otherwise sex is material.. sex for producing children is OK. Sex for recreation is an impediment to spiritual progress.”

    Elsewhere on this website, it reads under Sex and Sexuality: “.. sexual desire is a powerful rope that binds us to the world, life after life. And since human life is meant for freeing ourselves from this world and returning to Krishna, dealing with sexual desire is a crucial part of any spiritual path. Sex diffuses human energy and distracts the mind like no other activity. People striving for excellence in many walks of life often find sexual abstinence essential… The best regulation is to use sex in marriage only for procreation, with the intention of bringing children into the world and raising them in Krishna consciousness”.

    And now, my input and questions for you (please take your time and respond to any part of this post that you want to respond to, correct what I might have misunderstood, and answer my questions if you want to do so):

    1. According to the legends about Krishna, he was into lila, that is, playing for fun and enjoyment, not for a gain,  and he had many wives and a lover, if I read correctly.. reads like he enjoyed sex for fun, no? I don’t understand the evolution from the legends about Krishna being playful and sexual to ===> no sex for Krishna’s devotees unless you are married, and only for the purpose of having children (which is for a gain).. and while having sex focus on multiplying Krishna’s consciousness, and not on the sensations.

    Is enjoying sex okay for Krishna but not to his devotees.. is Krishna not supposed to lead by example?

    2. The teachings and instructions in that website I quoted from, which is similar to what I heard in-person when visiting the Hare Krishna Temple in Los Angeles, is very attractive, and was very attractive to me, at the time, for the following reason: to people already troubled with shame in regard to sex, the idea of .. not engaging in the perceived shameful experience- feels like an excellent solution. No sex= No shame. It feels good to belong to a community where everyone agrees that sex is indeed shameful and to be avoided, and therefore, a community where everyone helps everyone to avoid sex and shame.

    3. According to what I quoted from the website, which fits with the sentiments you shared, your options are:

    (a) to remain single, never engage in any sexual activity, and not get yourself in situations that promote the possibility of sexual activity, such as participating in Tinder, which you have been in the habit of doing.

    (b) to get married to a man with a similar mind set; if the two of you do not plan on having children, then no sex; if the two of you plan on having children, then have sex but as you do, the two must focus on the spiritual aspect of it, which is to multiply Krishna’s consciousness through a new child.

    4. If Krishna is “the god of compassion, tenderness, love”, why do you feel that he abandoned you following you having been with your ex-boyfriend, why were you not forgiven?

    5. “Vishnu incarnates numerous times, in different forms, to set things right and bring back the balance in the universe”- you can incarnate mentally, can you not, so to set things right in your life, and bring about the mental balance that you need?

    anita

    #369003
    Anagha Sonde
    Participant

    Yes. I accept Lord Krishna as an embodiment of love, compassion, and forgiveness. I also realize that even if I had given the place of Lord Krishna to my ex-boyfriend, my Lord never stopped protecting me. For example, he never let me give me a blow job to my ex not let full-fled intercourse happen or my hymen rupture. I remember all this happening to my friend. Unfortunately, she told me that her boyfriend fucked her like an animal to her navel and she lost her life through suicide. Hence I am fortunate that I am still alive and kicking.

    Proof that God has not abandoned me is also in the fact that the way my legal case is proceeding. Since I loved my ex-boyfriend in the beginning and expected marriage to happen with him, I informed the legal authorities that either he has to marry me or he has to get convicted. They responded by saying that he should get convicted since tomorrow if he marries me, imagine he throws acid on my face, then they will be responsible for my well being as the guardians of society. Hence they advised me that if I don’t feel like getting married, don’t get married. Lead life like a strong independent woman like several other women in society. I am not alone when it comes to that.

    Lord Krishna practices spiritual mindful sex. Sex can happen through the mind even without touching through hypnotic methods for bodily pleasure. But this method of sex is just for satisfaction and does not lead to a child in this Kalyug. Child through spiritual mindful sex used to happen in Satyug.

    #369023
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Anagha Sondi:

    I am sorry to read that a friend of yours committed suicide. I can see that you experienced a lot of pain in your life, and hope that there will be way less pain for you today, tomorrow and onward.

    I agree with the advice that the guardians of society gave you: “Lead life like a strong independent woman like several other women in society”.

    Live a life congruent with mental health: respect yourself and reject disrespect from others, do no harm to yourself or to others, choose what you say and do so to feel good about who you are.

    anita

    #369804
    Anagha Sonde
    Participant

    Sorry about the delay in reply Anita. I was wondering as to what to reply. I have been living the life of a strong independent woman for the past 7 years now. I go shopping alone. I go to the movies alone. I go roaming alone. Sometimes I feel like I need a companion. The strength weakens. That is when I feel like I need a family of my own. My mom also tells me that as age progresses, parents die – I would need somebody of my own. This is when I feel the need for a husband and my family more. Hence I feel the need to get married more. But there is also the pain of my past the is pulling me backward. I am totally confused. Your inputs?

    #369834
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Anagha Sonde:

    Welcome back. Before I give you my input, I will retype what you shared so far beginning in September 16, so to refresh my memory and process the information you provided:

    “I suffer from bipolar disorder… I go through manic episodes and relapses. Because of this and also because of my past, I would not like to get married… But this worries me as to how will I spend my old age… I see everybody around me married and having children. I am 33.. from India and in our country marriage is viewed as some security for life. Hence I feel insecure.. there is no security in the job domain that I work… I slipped into depression in 2010 while I was in the relationship due to work pressure and increased demand for physical pleasure from my boyfriend.. in 2012.. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I had a very abrupt breakup… I suffered for 3 long years… I still get manic episodes. I consulted a new psychiatrist and he is treating me with lithium tablets. During the manic episodes, I get a rush of thoughts. Like a thousand thoughts per second in my head, which I cannot control..

    “I feel stuck because of my past and lost with no tangible goal for the future… my doctor stopped the medicine, but I again slipped into mania and he had to restart medication again. Due to medication over the years I put on loads of weight but now I have begun to exercise and stick to a proper weight loss diet. I lost a few kilos as a result. I am listening to my doctor and taking medication on time. Also, I have begun therapy…

    “the tragic relationship and its experience prevent me from accepting a new man into my life. All I can see is pain.. inviting more and more pain.. I imagine that my future husband also will force me for sex and force me to do things I dislike.. For some time I used to feel impure as a result of getting physical with my ex-boyfriend and felt like shit from the inside. I even tried committing suicide because I felt that my blood had become impure as a result of the physical intimacy with my ex. I felt all I could do was purify myself by getting physical with another man, and as a result.. the list of the number of men I got intimate with is quite long.

    “I am living with my parents, brother, and sister-in-law in South India. My female friends are married and have no time for me… I just  made a few male friends through Tinder and it is only like chatting and talking over the phone.. They insist that I also had fun getting physical with (ex-boyfriend).. Only my therapist and doctor understand me…

    “Sex is taboo in our country and nobody talks about it in the open. Hence I was ignorant as to what happens between a man and a woman in a relationship.. I never felt like getting physical with (ex-boyfriend).. I was least interested.. I never enjoyed and mostly laid like a log. He would just do what he wanted to do with me and I used to pray when all this nonsense would end… getting physical for no pleasure with my ex-boyfriend that I was driven to suicide a few times… diagnosed with Vaginismus… I have men who get attracted to my good looks and approach me for sex. It gives me some sort of ego boost.. and hence I ended up getting intimate with many men minus the sexual intercourse…

    “Since I am 33 and unmarried, my relatives view me as an object of shame.. I am some sort of black mark on the family. Hence I feel like a loser most of the time at family gatherings…

    “As a result of the traumatic episode with my now ex-boyfriend, I nurtured a dream of being independent in life and not be dependent on any man… I do  not have any sexual needs anymore… When I look at a good looking man, all I can think of is approach him to make him a friend to talk to, and nothing beyond that… I read somewhere online that this has to do with my sexual orientation being.. ‘Asexual’ and it is not exactly Vaginismus…

    “I have nurtured a dream of working as a life coach and my therapist encourages me to fulfill it.. I completed working on my website and promoted my life coaching business online, and managed to get a few clients who are interested…

    “My name is Anagha. It is a Sanskrit word that means ‘sinless’.. I fell in love with Lord Krishna and dreamt of being his wife. I felt that my body belongs to Lord Krishna and only He has rights over it. He resides in my brain, heart, and vagina, and sex with any mortal man is a sin and will make me impure… I treated my ex-boyfriend as God.. give His place in my life to my ex-boyfriend. This made me feel dirty and sinful from the inside and I felt abandoned by my Lord as I no longer have His support to lead a life toward enlightenment and Nirvana… Lord Krishna .. never stopped protecting me. For example, he never let me (give) a blow job to my ex, not let full-fled intercourse happen, or my hymen rupture… Lord Krishna practices spiritual mindful sex.. through the mind even without touching, through hypnotic methods for bodily pleasure…

    Nov 24: “I have been living the life of a strong independent woman for the past 7 years now. I go shopping alone. I go to the movies alone. I go roaming alone. Sometimes I feel like I need a companion. The strength weakens. That is when I feel like I need a family of my own… hence I feel the need to get married more. But there is also the pain of my past that is pulling me backward. I am totally confused. Your inputs?”

    Sometimes I feel like I need a companion. The strength weakens. That is when I feel like I need a family of my own. My mom also tells me that as age progresses, parents die – I would need somebody of my own. This is when I feel the need for a husband and my family more. Hence I feel the need to get married more. But there is also the pain of my past the is pulling me backward. I am totally confused. Your inputs?

    My input (and request for clarification) today is on the topic of Krishna, sex, male companionship and marriage: you expressed in your most recent post that you are sometimes weak, that you feel that you need a family of your own, “the need for a husband.. to get married”.

    Earlier, you shared that early on, a long time ago,  you fell in love with Lord Krishna. You shared that He resides in your brain, heart and vagina (“He resides in my brain, heart, and vagina”), that sex with Lord Krishna is possible as a spiritual, mindful and hypnotic experience. You shared that sex with a mortal man is a sin, and that you,  Anagha (Sanskrit for sinless) were sinful when you allowed your ex-boyfriend to use your body for his physical sexual pleasure.

    Without the following clarification, I am unable to understand further, therefore I ask:

    When you get lonely and are consider getting married to a mortal man, are you considering

    (a) not having any sexual contact or activity with a future husband, and in so, being loyal to Lord Krishna, sinless and pure, or

    (b) having sexual contact/ activity with a future husband.

    If your answer is b: how can you make it okay, or acceptable,  in your own mind- to live a married life where you feel sinful and impure, a married life that is a betrayal of your God, Lord Krishna?

    anita

    #369860
    Anagha Sonde
    Participant

    (a) If it is ok with my husband I will practice having sexless marriage wherein I will adopt children.

    (b) I will seek Lord Krishna’s permission through the rituals of Hindu marriage wherein I will accept my husband to be my mortally married husband with whom I can practice spiritual sex with Lord Krishna’s permission without incurring any sin.

    #369877
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Anagha Sonde:

    According to your clarification, in your most recent post: if you get married- your plan is to adopt children and to not have physical sex with your husband. You will ask  Lord Krishna for His permission to practice spiritual sex with your husband, and if He gives you this permission and assures you that you will not incur sin by doing so- then you will have spiritual sex with your husband.

    Taking into consideration all that you shared here, in your thread, I suggest the following:

    1. Continue to take your psychiatric medication as prescribed while being regularly monitored by your doctor, and attend quality psychotherapy, if available.

    2. Eat healthful, nutritious food in moderate amounts, exercise daily, continue to lose weight gradually and patiently, and then maintain a healthy body weight.

    3. Cancel your Tinder account and no longer interact with men on Tinder, or on any dating/ online site.

    4. As an unmarried woman, abstain from any kind of sexual activity with any man: no foreplay, no kissing.. nothing. Reason: you believe that physical sexual activity is sinful, and it makes you feel dirty and impure.

    You cannot be mentally healthier when you feel dirty and impure.

    You shared: “I have men who get attracted to my good looks and approach me for sex. It gives me some sort of ego boost… and hence I ended up getting intimate with many men minus the sexual intercourse”- resist the temptation to boost your ego this way. That ego boost does not undo your devastating feelings of being sinful, dirty and impure when involved in physical sexual interactions.

    No longer avail yourself to any kind of sexual activity with any man, not on social media and not in-real-life.

    5. Seek a Hindu temple/ center for guidance on how to find a man to marry, a man who is on the same page as you regarding faith and practice: a man who (a) is interested in adopting children, (b) does “not have any sexual needs anymore”,  (c) a man who is not interested in physical sex, but may be interested in spiritual sex, with Lord Krishna’s permission and assurance.

    There are such men out there, and you need to find just one of those men. Make sure that a man you consider for marriage is indeed on the same page as you, really not interested in any physical sex, one who will never approach you for physical sex, never pressure you, and never, ever force you.

    See to it that this man will not be too emotionally needy of you, and therefore, he will respect your need to be independent, to go to the movies by yourself, and so forth- as long as you do  not interact with men while on such outings.

    6. Once you find such a man, marry him and make a loving home for you, for him, and for the children that you may adopt.

    anita

    #370004
    Anagha Sonde
    Participant

    Okay, Anita – I will wholeheartedly follow your advice.

    I am however still disturbed by one thing. My therapist tells me to forgive my ex-boyfriend. After all the pain and abuse that he has given me how can I forgive him? Getting physically intimate with him was harrowing for me and pushed me into depression and forced me to take medicine. After such a terrible experience how can I possibly forgive him? Still, my therapist tells me not to forget the fact that we both started the relationship in love but it went on bitterly. Whatever, but all I can remember is the pain, pain, and the pain and there is no question of forgiving or forgetting. I just can’t seem to let it go. It has been 7 years now I know. Still. The pain is as fresh as yesterday :'(

    #370037
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Anagha Sonde:

    “My therapist tells me to forgive my ex-boyfriend”- by forgiving him I hope she means that she wants you to no longer feel so much hurt and anger at him, because it is so distressing to feel all that hurt and anger for so long.

    But you cannot choose how to feel, it is not that simple. You can’t say: I will stop feeling hurt and anger- and then, no longer feeling hurt and anger.

    I wish this was not the case, that “the pain is as fresh as yesterday”. I wish you became free from that pain.

    anita

     

    #373525
    Anagha Sonde
    Participant

    I am not becoming free from the pain.. eternal peace and freedom from trauma are what I also want to achieve… but the episode is haunting me to hell.. and it is only because he extracted physical pleasure out of me without taking my consent… The only consolation and peace that I give myself are in the form of the rape case that the police filed against my ex-boyfriend in court.. the belief that I will get justice someday and the affirmation that even if it is delayed it is still justice at the end of the day.. I also believe that even if he gets acquitted it is still justice because of the mental torture that has put my ex-boyfriend to.. and the satisfaction that I gave him a taste of his own medicine.

    Few points to discuss are as below. Let me know your views on the same:

    1. I am not able to have intercourse with any man. I believe that my ex-boyfriend looted my honor and dignity by the non-consensual sex that he forced me upon.
    2. I believe God lives in my vagina and by having intercourse with a man my God will leave me stranding me without any support for life and the afterlife.
    3. I have lost my purity and I feel violated and scarred for life. I feel that my boyfriend ruined my life and the police are extremely right in filing a rape case against him.
    4. I googled about my beliefs above and I feel that there is something wrong with my sexuality. I have researched a lot on this topic and have come to the conclusion that I am “asexual” and there is a separate community for individuals like me called LGBTQIAPK where A stands for asexuality.
    5. I stopped taking the medicine prescribed by my psychiatrist since I do not want a life that is induced by medicine or sleep that is induced by medicine. I want something natural. I am not a weak person to take medicine.

    Let me know you response as soon as possible. I am eager and anxious.

     

    Regards,

    Anagha Sonde

    #373526
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Anagha Sonde:

    “I am not becoming free from the pain… eternal peace and freedom from trauma are what I also want to achieve”-  I hope your pain lessens. I don’t believe there is such a thing as “eternal peace and freedom”, but I wish you relief, and a better life-experience today and every day.

    “I stopped taking the medicine prescribed by my psychiatrist”- I suggest that you re-consider and treat your active bi-polar condition with prescribed medication and with appropriate, professional counseling As Soon As Possible.

    anita

     

    #374051
    Anagha Sonde
    Participant

    I am back on medicines with increased dosage. However, counseling is not helping me. My counselor repeatedly tells me to forgive and forget my rapist which is impossible. I am someone who is incapable of forgiving or forgetting. Hence, I spoke to my lawyer about this. She said that we will file another case on my rapist and seek compensation. The Indian Judiciary is a murky place. In legal cases, both the complainant and the accused suffer in varying amounts. My counselor says that she would not like to see me suffer anymore by getting tangled in the legal web. But I have no choice. The legal route at least gives me hope that one day I will get justice. So I can live life with that hope. It takes me away from the pain of rape and trauma. Else if I do not take any action against my rapist and just let him go scot-free, I feel like it is a black mark on my conscience. Should I go ahead and file another legal case? Please let me know your thoughts.

    #374072
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Anagha Sonde:

    I remember that you shared that the man in the legal case you already filed lives in Finland and is married to a Finnish woman while you are living in India. How can the Indian legal system reach him in Finland?

    anita

    #374073
    Anagha Sonde
    Participant

    He is an Indian citizen, not a Finnish citizen yet. He is just married to a Finnish woman. That too I do not know if the marriage is valid since I was given their marriage certificate that had no signatures of both. He got bail in the rape case from the Supreme Court on the condition that he participates in the trial process which he is not. So my lawyer is telling me to proceed with the cancellation of bail so that he gets arrested. Your thoughts?

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