fbpx
Menu

Maybe overthinking?

HomeForumsRelationshipsMaybe overthinking?

New Reply
Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #116766
    Jay Paige
    Participant

    Ok,

    First time posting so I hope I do not sound strange. So I am a gay male and I have met this wonderful guy at my old job at apple last year. We were not dating at the time, but when I saw him I knew I was going to make him apart of my life. The way we made eye contact, our body language, and our wonderful conversations we shared. After a year of not really talking I messaged him which was July this year we started actually dating. He is in pre-med at Cal and is about to graduate this may and also he is interviewing for some med schools across the country. As of right now we are based in the Bay Area of San Fran. The mere thought of him leaving scared me so of course I freaked out and broke up with him once. I talk to a therapist and suggested I had abandonment issues while growing up with divorced parents so we worked though not only removing the feeling but to accept it and move on with my life because that is of the past. After a few days he understood my fear and came back for a second chance to be in my life but this time with more time of seeing each other because before we would only have time to be face to face once a week and only communicated through text each day. So moving forward we are back together. Im working on not seeing him so much because I know he is busy with his last year in school and also he is very dedicated into his education. I would never take that away from someone. So I learned to love myself in the process by finding things that I enjoy without him like hanging out with friends, random car rides, and also going to the gym. Everything seemed normal until he brought up this in a text out of the blue.

    Text

    He stated first on which community college I attended, and than which college after I went too. At first I saw this as him being curious. I thought wrong. After he went on about stating, “so maybe I am being a privilege bit*h and you can call me out on it but you seem to have acquired a “decent” amount of education so can we talk about your grammar because it makes me uncomfortable when you text me incorrectly via text. For example,your/you’re than/then and their/they’re/there”.

    At first I did not know how to take this but as a black male hearing this from a Caucasian privilege male it was a bit weird. Also weird he brought up my education before he stated that.

    Text

    “I am sorry I a such a grammar nazi” (While he spelled I don’t know with IDk and also did not capitalize any of his text when forming a conversation). “Do you think I am being privileged? “Like I totally get people have different educational access privilege etc., but do you think that you had educational access issues?” “(I can explain them all if you want)” “tell me that I’m being horrible!!!!!!!!”

    After seeing this word vomit, my heart dropped. I felt stupid, embarrassed, and even had thoughts of leaving this grammar nazi. Like C’mon, its texting! This is not a job application or a team project! Am I being stubborn? Do I have a right to feel sad and angry. I tried to put myself in his shoes after a day of not talking to him but I still feel shit*y. He than after sent me a longgggggggggggggg email regarding he was very very sorry and did not mean to come off that way at all. He acknowledge that he was in the wrong when he used poor choices of words but in the email he still defended his believes on why education was brought up. He stated he “expected” more from someone that went to college. So I sent him an email back stating I forgave him, but honestly I still feel hurt. Any advice would be nice moving on. I told him I needed a couple of days from him so I can take this time to be kind to to myself and tell myself I am educated and I have good grammar. If I did not I would not have finished my first degree and also landed an awesome job as a tech person in Yelp. But still, I dont know if I should continue a relationship with someone who is so by the books, and also so controlling on my life such as time and when I can see him. I love him……..Help please.

    #116777
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Jay Paige:

    I don’t think you are overthinking this. I think this may very well be a red flag. That would be unfortunate because you love him.

    Strange he did not approach the subject (grammar) in person, but instead texting. Strange he criticized your texting grammar, not grammar otherwise, which seems perfect to me reading this email (I am no expert).

    Strange he asked you about your education as the introduction to his criticism.

    Strange he sent you such a long apology email and express no real insight or apology in it.

    * You mentioned race: maybe he is uncomfortable with you because of your race, having negative thoughts and feelings regarding your race, and he is expressing his discomfort indirectly, via the topic of texting-grammar.

    I would say, pay attention, take in what he says and does and evaluate him: who is he? What are his thoughts and feelings about X and Y and Z? Get to know who he is while not letting your attachment to him distort your seeing and evaluating him.

    anita

    #116779
    ntwalker
    Participant

    Jay I have just one thought on this. Do you think this person could truly love and support you for who you are if something as simple as your grammar and education is an issue this early in the relationship?

    #116783
    Jay Paige
    Participant

    Hey Anita!

    Yes very strange! This was the email he sent after. Sorry it is so long and take your time responding back.

    Email

    I just wanted to follow up on our conversation earlier. I know you prefer voice communication, but sometimes I really do think there’s merit in writing because of the ability to take more time and choose my words better, and also to take breaks if I’m feeling emotional. Also no pressure to respond to this immediately, take all the time you need.

    I really, really wanted to first apologize because again, my original texts were very poor conveyors of what I meant to express to you. The core, direct message I wanted to express (and what I think I made clearer over the phone) was an ask about if you could use the proper grammar for words like you’re/your via text.

    I know you brought up about me not using proper punctuation and capitalization, and I wanted to make it clear that you have every right to ask me to make a change like that if it makes you more comfortable. You can feel free to make asks of me just like I make asks of you, in all areas of the relationship.

    Going into points where I think I really miscommunicated- starting with the education thing. Basically, I brought this up because I was using it as a proximal metric to ensure I wasn’t making an unreasonable request of you (if a person did not know the correct grammatical usage, it would be terribly unreasonable and privileged of me to expect them to use it in text communication). I was VERY doubtful you didn’t know the correct usage though– I was just reconfirming what I knew about you already, that you had a high level of formal schooling and should very likely know the rules of grammar (so your choice not to use it in texting would be just that, a choice). I think it comes down to the question, is it problematic to try to be unproblematic and not make that unreasonable request about grammar? I don’t think it is problematic to check myself before wrecking myself- but I also see how it could be viewed as an insinuation about educational background, which it was not intended to be. Rather it was me trying to not make an unreasonable demand in the RARE case that you did not know the grammar for some reason.

    You brought up at the end of the conversation about how different aspects like culture, location etc, can affect someone’s speech and writing, and that is totally true. I brought up education status specifically because I felt it was the most appropriate metric of grammar education. Believe it or not, I was really trying to make it clear that I was like 99% sure you knew the rules of grammar, but I really wanted to cover my ass and not make a problematic ask that you couldn’t fulfill. That’s why in the original texts, I included “and the thing is I know you’re able to use them correctly you know?” because I was basically sure you knew the structures.

    I kept bringing up my own privilege in education because, say you as an educated person were dating someone and they didn’t know how to use written grammar correctly. It would be really problematic and privileged of you to expect that person to be able to type with good grammar, and you’d never want to make that request of them right? So that’s why I kept bringing it up; in the very rare chance that for some reason a person didn’t know the grammar, I would want to make it clear that I am acknowledging my own privilege, because grammar education is ultimately a form of privilege that should be recognized.

    Also just to clarify my usage of privilege, it is really being used in a social justice sense, i.e. in the same way as white privilege, male privilege, cisgender privilege etc. So I’m using it in the context of “this is an unearned benefit that I got not out of my own effort, but as a result of my circumstances” and thus it is something to be aware of as a mediating factor in social interactions. Basically I’m using privilege not in a positive sense at all, more as a recognition of how unequal access to various things colors our life experiences.

    Additionally I just wanted to bring up race and racism; I really intended to just try to be unproblematic in a classist sense, so race was not on my mind at all when initiating this. However given that we’re in an interracial relationship, race does color our interactions so I understand how a discussion of class would be related to race also via intersectionality. I want you to always feel comfortable to bring up topics of race in our relationship and I want to be as cognizant and critical as possible of racial dynamics in our relationship.

    Furthermore, I waited to bring this up in part because I knew it would likely be a tough topic and problematic to work through. I tried to look past it in text as long as possible but eventually I figured it was something I should bring up as we get closer together, to be more transparent about what made me feel uncomfortable.

    Lastly, I wanted to reaffirm that I really and truly do appreciate you for who you are as a wholesome, kind, loving, generous, sensitive human being. You do so many kind things for me and I am consistently impressed by your good nature and generosity, and love our time together so much.

    This ask about grammar was really just that- an ask, and I never intended to implicate some sort of statement about your educational status or intelligence. And even if you had said “no, I don’t really want to use the grammar in texting” I would have let it pass- not every ask is answerable.

    So overall, I just wanted to one more time apologize for my mediocre phrasing for the first string of texts, which were mostly verbal vomit. But I hope this helps to explain myself more, basically all the discussion around education was about trying to be as unoffensive as possible even though it clearly backfired. So I hope you will forgive me.

    I know you want to move past this, but I do feel strongly that we see each other eye-to-eye about our intentions in this dialogue before moving along; I think these kinds of conversations are so essential and necessary both to our relationship but also to our development as people with strong communication abilities. Take all the time you need to read this tome but yeah, sorry again for poor phrasing, and hope this makes my intention clearer.

    Best,

    Austin

    So I forgive him, not for him but for me so I can move on. But I wanted to be sure I was not overthinking the situation and blew it out of proportion, ya know.

    Thanks Anita for all your support thus far, I very much appreciate it!

    #116787
    Jay Paige
    Participant

    Hey Ntwalker!

    To be honest, I did not think so. I had a lot of doubt because I felt as my relationship goes along with him, he will judge me because of the educational access he had. I want to believe that he is very sorry, but going further this changes alot of things between us. He stated he “expected more better grammar from me because of my class of education but I expressed to him that grammar does not only come from education. It would be your environment that you are in or it could be I know but I just do not care for correct grammar because I am quickly texting him. This is not a new job I am applying for or a resume for a new job so why do I have to correct myself. Lastly what makes incorrect grammar bother you so much, what really is the issue behind it? I think its like what Anita said. “Maybe he is uncomfortable with you because of your race, having negative thoughts and feelings regarding your race, and he is expressing his discomfort indirectly, via the topic of texting-grammar”.

    #116788
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Jay Paige:

    I read it. In the last part he wrote: ” I think these kinds of conversations are so essential and necessary both to our relationship but also to our development as people with strong communication abilities.”

    And this is what I get from reading his email: he has trouble communicating. To develop as a person “with strong communication abilities”-he has a way to go.

    He overly relies on dry intellect and does not integrate emotional understanding into his cognitive processing and therefore, the communication of his cognitive processing. He gets caught up on minutia details, like YOUR vs YOU’R- and takes that minutia for a ride, a long, long ride.

    He wrote that he asked you about your education so to make sure you knew that YOU’R is the correct way to use in your texting. Really? Does it take higher education than second and third grade to know that “YOU’RE handsome” is correct and “YOUR handsome” is incorrect?

    He wrote about privilege and race- he has thoughts and feelings about these words, but none that he expressed to you in this long email. He avoids expressing his true thoughts and feelings. If he did express his honest views, his feelings, it would have been a short email.

    All this does not mean to me that he is a bad person, only that he is indirect, uncomfortable with his feelings, not trusting another to accept his feelings and views as they are. So he is cautious, dancing around topics, not committing to any topic.

    It reads to me from his email and your posts here, that you are way, way better at communicating; that you are direct in your approach, much more in touch with your feelings and integrating those into your understanding and communicating.

    He has a whole lot to learn from you, and I state this with respect to him. I wonder if you can help him.

    Post anytime.

    anita

    #116818
    Jay Paige
    Participant

    Hey Anita!

    I guess I do uhh? I wrote him and let him know in my own words what you stated and was very honest and direct. I also write him yesterday with no response yet. Im afraid to lose him but at the same time I need to favor myself first before anyone else. Thank you so much for your wonderful input into my silly life. I very much appreciate it!

    #116827
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Jay Paige:

    You are welcome. Honest and direct is what I value. These are also you’re values (joke, I meant: your).

    anita

    #116860
    ketzer
    Participant

    I recall reading a bit about how in fiction writing when one wants to draw strong emotions from the reader, they choose their words one way to bring the reader in close and build a sense of intimacy, on the other hand, they choose other words when wanting to create distance between the story and the reader. When done well the reader has no idea this is going on, their emotions are moved up and down by the prose as they experience the story. I expect it works so well because as humans, we do this in our own communications instinctively. Anyway, my reaction to your post is that you are not overthinking anything, it is your friend who seems to be doing a bit to much thinking and not enough feeling. Maybe this is a sign and maybe it is not, but lets just say his choice of words does not exactly give one the warm fuzzys. There is emotional intelligence and intellectual intelligence, in a personal relationship, emotional intelligence is by far the more important of the two.

    Anita: “He overly relies on dry intellect and does not integrate emotional understanding into his cognitive processing and therefore, the communication of his cognitive processing.” Awesome line, spot on and delivered with (intentionally or not?) a perfect sub current of dry intellect. I love it!

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Please log in OR register.