Hi Anita,

I ended up waiting and not replying to his text (yes, a text after midnight saying good evening. Mind you, he is one hour behind, so it was technically 11:30pm for him).

We have messaged a little back and forth, but nothing really of substance, and when I tried to call him last night instead of texting, he didn’t answer and only said “sorry I missed u, busy night”. I haven’t replied, I suppose there doesn’t seem to be a point anymore. He has shown in many ways that I am no longer a priority for him, I almost find it more upsetting that he bothers to contact me at all anymore when it’s clear I mean so little to him. I don’t know why men (and I guess some women too) do this. I feel it puts me in an uncomfortable position. I don’t know if it’s right or not that I haven’t replied to his last message or not. Part of me wanted to ask if he was seeing someone else so that I could finally “get over” him and forget him, but I feel like this would probably just hurt me in the end, I don’t know. I also thought about asking if he was still planning on taking me on a boat ride when I got back, but again, I suppose what’s the point.

I agree with all you have said about the Specific Relationship Rules I am to follow moving forward. I’m feeling quite deflated as of late, this silly dalliance (can’t even call it a relationship!) and its aftermath has had a significant negative impact on me, and I don’t feel very hopeful about dating and relationships right now. That being said, I do feel lonely and the odd man out in my friend group and family as everyone seems to be moving on with their partners and own families and I feel very stuck in this department. It’s a little sad, I’ve now had several groups of single female friends move on and find long term partners while I have not. I’m trying not to think and feel like this, but there are times that I really do think it will never happen for me, that my damage is too significant to work through at this stage of my life.

I also feel quite trapped in my own taste in men, in that I supremely value men that have discarded me, and I disvalue those that show interest. Occasionally there are men like the ones that I have written about that I do value while they show interest in me, but it seems like soon enough my blunders occur and then their interest is gone, and I seem to value them more or want to earn or win them back. I suppose that’s what is happening with this current man. Last night I couldn’t sleep (was woken up several times in the night thinking about him and what happened) and I am so disappointed in myself, that I have wasted so much mental energy and time thinking about someone that barely held any significance in my life. I really wish I could forget him and move forward with my lessons, but for whatever reason, I can’t seem to. Perhaps it’s because he still contacts me from time to time (for what purpose I have no idea!), but I’m not sure.

I was aware of the definition of OCD, and perhaps one small sign of my own self-awareness is that I could identify my behaviours within relationships as OCD related. I think RROCD you have coined is quite accurate for me and I will keep this in mind for when I feel hopeful of dating, but I just don’t feel up to it now. I hope this passes. Thanks again, Anita.

L

Hi Anita,

Ah, once again I am totally impressed with your skills of observation and deduction. I hadn’t considered this, and I believe you’re right. It makes more sense too, as I didn’t think he struck me as the type to be dishonest. He told me this friend saw him on a dating app, but he didn’t say when and it does seem that he considered this date more of a meet/hang out than a “date” date. I should have listened closer and not let my obsessive thoughts carry me away.

I wholeheartedly agree that this is not suitable for me. I think I let the “norm” or what my friends do make it seem okay for me, but you’re absolutely right, I cannot manage early physical intimacy and then stay objective. I suppose in the beginning I justified sleeping with this man early on as at the time I didn’t see him as relationship potential, and I figured as long as we were safe it would be alright. That being said, I now know that it is never a good idea for me, relationship material or not. I was proud of myself for a few weeks, as I did not drink with him or while I was seeing him, and even though we had sex early on, I did not feel pressure or anxiety to rush the relationship for quite a few weeks. I think unfortunately the act of disclosing to my friend about him and the situation (even though I didn’t want to, but felt the need to give her the information she was asking of me) triggered my obsessive thinking and compulsion to rush the relationship. In the past, my parents fit the role of my friend and caused the same pattern. Therefore I will add this to my list of lessons, not to divulge my private dating life to anyone in the beginning. I had thought of posting here and speaking to you about him, but I (stupidly) thought I might “jinx” it by posting (so far I only seem to post about men and relationships that don’t go well). I see now the lack of logic in this thinking!

It does sadly seem like the ship has sailed. But even as I type “sadly” I am conflicted. Maybe it isn’t so sad, maybe it is for the best. I doubt that you can answer this for me, but do you believe that this man was possibly relationship quality and my blunders caused a good ship to sail, or do you think it might not have been a good match/he wasn’t ready anyway?

The last we spoke, after I thanked him for lunch and told him not to work too hard while I was away, he wrote to me “Thank you Sweety, keep in touch. Let me know when you’re back”. Also the day before, he said “Hey, I’m heading to (friend’s), you’re still on the schedule for a boat ride tho” when I asked how since I was leaving the next day, he said, “when you return, flexible schedule”. I suppose this makes me feel somewhat inclined to let him know when I was back since I said I would, but at the same time as you mention, just because he said these things a week ago, it doesn’t mean they still hold weight.

I like your metaphor of the corner of the picture vs. the whole picture. I also think you are correct in that waiting to slowly get to know that man rather than rushing into things physically and emotionally will help with this. I will take your advice and I will never sleep with a man prior to 4 dates, I promise! Out of curiosity, how did you decide on it being 4 dates as opposed to another number of dates?

Thanks again so much Anita, you are really helping me.

L

Hi Anita,

I’m not sure if this small correction changes anything, but when I had uninvited him to meet my brother, he had not yet said he was wanting to go on other dates or that he had one planned, he simply said he would let me know if he did. It was later that night (when I had dinner with my brother) that he mentioned that he had a date scheduled the following day. I have no idea if that plan was made before or after I got upset with him.

You are right though, either way, after being intimate with me he still was planning on going on other dates. I have no idea if he did or not in the end.

Yes, I do see how toxic the relationship with my mother was, I have definitely been angry with her. So much so, that it has strained my relationship with my father, which really is disappointing. Thankfully I do not do as my other asks without question, in fact, she does not ask me to do or not do anything anymore, since I had a discussion with her about boundaries about a year or so ago. I have to give her credit, she has stuck to this. That being said, we don’t have much of a relationship now at all, just exchanging niceties here and there when I speak with my dad.

As an update, I’m embarrassed to say that this “relationship” and it’s ending has been very destabilizing for me. I keep myself busy most of the day with work and social engagements or exercise, but unfortunately, I find myself plagued with thoughts of this person and what happened at night, so much so that I’ve dreamt of the situation almost every night the past week.

I’m beyond frustrated with myself about this. I find this so ridiculous, I barely knew this person. But that in itself is what I’m so upset about, I feel like somehow it is completely my fault for a) pushing/wanting too much too soon and b) drinking and lashing out rather than staying calm, that caused this interaction to end prematurely. I feel like if I had behaved myself, I would have the peace of mind that it wasn’t meant to be, rather than now, which is that I don’t know if this could have been a good person to be with or not. I’ve been watching dating videos online, and they recommend that if a man is 6 months out of a serious relationship, you should not push him at all for any sort of commitment, and should take things slow. I didn’t do this once again, and I’m so disappointed in myself for it.

If he had behaved the way he did in the end if I had still behaved in a way I was proud of, at least I would know there wasn’t a true loss. As it is, I have no idea. I haven’t heard from him now in over a week (the longest we’ve gone without speaking) and my gut is that he is with someone else. I saw on facebook he added a new woman as a friend, who happens to look a little like me, but who knows. Maybe I’m just making things up in my head. He did say last time we spoke at lunch that he was very overwhelmed with work and other responsibilities, so who knows. Either way, I have not reached out to him even though I might be going to his city next week. I don’t know if I should reach out to at least say hi or see where we stand, or wait until I am back in his city and let him know then like I said I would, or not at all. I just wish I wasn’t thinking about him at all, and a part of me is angry at him for coming on quite strong and doing “boyfriend”-like things like calling me daily and checking in about the health of my family only to abruptly stop like this and leave things open-ended. If he met someone else, I wish he would have said that.

L

Dearest Anita,

I’ve read your last reply over and over, and I am truly in awe of your gift of observation and insight. I am so sorry that my gratitude for your time, energy and patience was not always apparent. It’s hard to believe that it has been 3 years since I began speaking with you here. You have become the only person I can fully be honest and unfiltered with and that is such a special thing to me, thank you so very much. I hope one day I can help you in some way.

I believe everything you have written here is spot on. When you lay it out as you have, it shocks me that I did not come to the same conclusions, at least not as precisely. It is somewhat frightening how similar my posts are, and yet each time these situations arise in my life, they feel so unique to me.

You are completely right though, in that these patterns continue, unfortunately. I do completely lose my senses (even my friends and family are shocked at the shift in my priorities when I do this!) and I put this “budding relationship” to the top of my list. I suppose it has to do with that Fantasy you spoke about before. Despite trying so hard not to, I have this silly belief that one day when I meet my “Prince Charming” I will be so fulfilled, I will be so happy, and I will live “happily ever after”. Cognitively I understand how silly a notion this is, but it is so tantalizing to me that I expend all resources at that moment to ensure the budding relationship continues when in reality, I feel this is the behaviour that probably turns men off and destroys my little fantasy. Which in turn, fuels my negative core belief of being unloveable or unworthy.

I’ve been thinking for the last few days about this. I think if I am truly honest, I think I am afraid of “attaining” my fairytale ending. I think I’m afraid that one day if I finally catch what I’ve been so desperately seeking, I might find that in reality, it is not that I will “happily ever after”. That life will still have its challenges, that I will never have that perfect idyllic Fantasy life I have been yearning for so long. So perhaps, I subconsciously sabotage each “budding relationship” so that I can at least hold on to this hope, this Fantasy, knowing that it will never be disproven. But by this logic, it will never be proven, either.

I think this recent experience hit me harder than it should have, because not only did I see him as my typical Fantasy man, but also as my way to move to the new city in one fell swoop. When I think about it this way, I’m quite disappointed with myself. I do not need to be “rescued” by some prince to be able to move to this new city. But I suppose it would have been easier, especially since he had already purchased the property and begun building it and when he alluded to me moving right into that idyllic property and storybook romance, I lapped it up. I don’t know if he said this in the heat of the moment (it was over the phone, not during or after sex though) or if he intentionally misled me, but either way, I lost all my logic. I simply ran with this fairytale idea, even if I knew deep down it was not rational, not this soon.

It’s interesting that you point out that for some men it is a turn on to be placed on a pedestal, and for others, it is not. He actually mentioned during our last lunch together before I left that it made him uncomfortable when some people are too “over the top” with their compliments and warmth too early on. We were speaking in the context of a new friend I had made that was like this, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt this way in romantic relationships as well.

Thank you so, so much for your concrete suggestions. I have read them over and over, I have saved them on my phone as well. I will make sure to review them daily so that I can keep myself accountable for these changes. I have added a step prior to these suggestions, where I will work on myself and improving my life. This includes getting into better shape physically (and mentally for that matter!), organizing my life and reducing clutter, and focusing on my friendships and relationships with my family. I will also focus on spending time with my dog, and I will honestly do my best to forget about this recent man. Although he has messaged me a small amount since I have been home, I have felt a huge shift from the attention and affection he was showing me before. He told me at our lunch that he wasn’t sure he really wanted a girlfriend right now and was just “taking it easy”. He made sure to tell me he wasn’t going on any other dates though and to keep in touch and let him know when I am back in the city so we can go on that boat ride after all, but I think I have lost faith in his words and as you say, are likely things just said in the moment.

I think once I truly heal from my childhood wounds, and continue to love and care for myself, I won’t be so taken away by these men. That being said, I think I will always require a man that can communicate openly with me and will be able to be patient with me. I suppose time will tell, but I will not rush it.

Thank you again so much Anita. I hope you’re doing well!

• This reply was modified 4 years, 4 months ago by laelithia.

Hi Anita,

Thank you once again for your quick reply. Thank you also for your kind words regarding my father! He was diagnosed with kidney cancer in late June and luckily was able to have surgery in July to remove what they could of the cancer. He’s doing okay now, but unfortunately, there were some complications that he’s still healing from now. Unfortunately a couple of weeks ago my dog was also diagnosed with cancer and had to have emergency surgery to remove his spleen while I was away in the other city. He’s recovering well from the surgery, but we have sadly been told his cancer is terminal. All of this occurred right after meeting the man that I have recently written about. In writing this, I am reminded of the initial person I began writing on this forum about, J, whom I began dating while my mother was also fighting cancer. I wondering if there are some parallels there with how I’m feeling now.

He and I began talking late in June and met for the first time in person in early July. He was not my usual type, but he made an effort to call me before we met in person and he seemed to take initiative and was older than the men I had dated in the past, so I thought perhaps it would be a good fit. We became physically intimate early on, but I was alright with this. To be honest, at that time, I wasn’t sure if it would develop into a relationship or not, but I wasn’t too focused on it as I had not yet moved to this city. I was only able to stay for a couple of weeks this visit though, as I had to urgently fly back to my home city when my dog became sick as it was looking at that time that he would not make it. After I rushed back home in such a hurry, I honestly didn’t think I would hear more from S. To my surprise, he called and checked in every day that I was back home, despite me not knowing when I would be able to come back. He began calling me “Sweety” and other pet names and overall seemed to me to be treating me like a girlfriend. He told me at this time that he wasn’t planning on going on other dates, and I felt comfortable with this and also did not go on other dates. When I was able to come back to this city, he picked me up from the airport and we spent most of the weekend together. Throughout my time in knowing him, it seemed to me with his actions he was clearly showing that he wanted an exclusive relationship with me. He spoke about how he had purchased property here and was building his own studio for his business and house and how he could see me living with him and how I could operate my practice virtually there with him. He spoke about how he believed I would make a good partner, and mother. At no point did I feel like he was still interested in playing the field.

My surprise came when on Tuesday of my trip, he alluded to the fact that he would let me know if he ended up dating or being with someone else. I told him I didn’t realize he was still considering this, and he told me that he felt that he wasn’t 100% sure he was ready for a committed relationship “right now”. I took this quite badly, as instantly I was reminded of all the times men in my life had said those words in my past, and how badly that went. It also didn’t make sense to me that he would want to do that, as he had acted so much like a partner/boyfriend the last month or so it seemed to me that’s what he wanted with me.

You are right, it seems that he is the one that was pushing me away by dating others. At first, I told him I was okay with him going on other dates (he said he wouldn’t kiss let alone sleep with others), but when he brought it up more than once, I think this is when I became cold towards him. To me, it didn’t make sense that was what he wanted yet in so many ways it seemed to me his actions were making it clear that he wanted to build a relationship with me.

I suppose it seems like I’m the one that misbehaved because we were not yet “boyfriend/girlfriend” official, but I believed we were exclusive. I suppose that was not clear.

To answer your last question, I think you have a point in that I was not okay with him dating others once he had already scheduled a date. If I ever do discuss this with him, I will ask him why it seemed like he was doing things that seemed like he wanted a relationship with me, but also saying he wasn’t ready for this.

I didn’t expect to hear from him, but ironically after I posted this to you, he messaged me saying “Hey there, just checking in, how are you?”. I replied back “Hey, I’m good! Just at the beach, how are you?”

A few hours later he replied simply “Nice, I’m taking it pretty easy.” and then sent me a link to a funny video. I am not sure what he is trying to do with this contact, if he is just trying to be “friends” with me, or if he is trying to reignite what we had before.

L

Hi Anita,

I apologize for my late reply, I somehow missed yours! Thank you so much for your reflective thoughts on the man I mentioned earlier. I think you’re right, that these traits could have continued if I stayed in a long term relationship with him. Who knows, maybe in the space of us not dating, maybe he was able to work on these flaws too. Or maybe not. Either way, I don’t see it anymore as a fatal mistake that I didn’t stay with him anymore. Thank you for that.

I also really appreciate your reflections on the feeling more “alive” vs. bland in your life. That gives me so much hope. I think I am slowly coming out of my bland emotional reset time, but it’s a process.

I’ve actually returned here to discuss a different issue I am now facing. I might make another thread about it. To my utmost surprise, a week or so after posting about the man that got married, I met someone. He was not my usual type in many ways, but he was kind, assertive, generous, and brilliant with creating and designing things. I was somewhat more interested in another man, but I decided to pursue (let’s call him S) because he was so clearly pursuing me. I met him in the other city I’m planning to move to, and the experience was lovely. I felt somewhat alive again! But I was feeling even better because it wasn’t so flashy as you say, just a happy aliveness. Anyway, this continued for the month or so, even when I had to travel last minute back to my city because my dog became very ill. I thought we might lose him. Between that and my father’s recent cancer diagnosis and then surgery, I have felt it quite difficult to be away. Yet at the same time, I wanted to invest in this person that I could actually maybe see a future with as he indicated he could with me.

He told me how he had purchased a property just outside the city that would allow him to move his company to the studio he was building and how he had even thought about how I could run my virtual practice there as well. He told me how he had “done the math” and how we had a great connection and our future goals aligned. This both excited and frightened me. I think despite desperately wanting a relationship, I also tend to become afraid when one is potentially possible, and if my anxiety is not in check, I tend to sabotage. While he was telling me these positive things, he also told me that he is 6 months out of a tumultuous 2-year relationship, and still felt a little pressure to date others as well, to “be confident in his decisions” moving forward. Instead of taking this well, I took it badly and began pushing him away. I also divulged too much of this to a bit of an overly nosy friend, and I let her get to me in saying it was totally inappropriate what he was doing and that I should tell him this. I now think this advice was a bit too extreme, but at the time I listened to it. I, unfortunately, uninvited him from meeting my brother and became short and cold to him. As if that wasn’t bad enough, I proceeded to have too much to drink that night and ended up sending some really odd texts that I now regret. He then told me he had a date scheduled the next day, and I really lost it. First I didn’t reply, even when he added that it was someone he knew from 8 years ago that used to date his friend and was more of a meet up than a date. Even then hours later I said “ Good luck on your date. I am not interested in being anyone’s plan B. I hope it pans out for you, thank you for being kind to me. Goodbye S, I wish you all the best.”

I felt bad about this is the morning, so I said “ Sorry, I should have been honest and admitted that I was drinking last night. I’m not even too sure why I said what I did. Hope you have a good day.” to which he replied:

“I’m sorry to hurt your feelings , this meeting was planned a week ago. My perspective isnt a plan b scenario, I’d like to go thru the motions get out a and meet some people so that I’m confident in my decisions. I feel you where kinda mental toying with me last night , I didnt have a good feeling. I also dont want to say goodbye, but that’s something you meantioned. I also meantioned I’d rather not gave a stressful convo before bed and the opposite is what actually happened. Please have a good day. I’m sorry o dont have my mind made up about us.

I need a bit of space theres a lot goin on around me w work etc. I’ll just shut down if you press me too hard. Agsin I’m sorry your upset and I hope you can make the best of the day.”

I gave him space for the next day or so, but then he messaged me and I messaged back. When I asked if he was still planning on getting my bike today (he had asked to get it to tune it for a bike ride for us on the weekend), he said “ I’m sorry not after our last interactions. I think your a nice person , but I dont feel theres any merit in a meeting not that it would change anything. I was hoping for some space. If you want to get something off your chest I’m free for a call at 12:30.“ after I asked to meet up to discuss our bad conversation and to explain myself. When I asked him if it was how I behaved that night that caused him to feel this way, he said “ This is a bit intense for me , I’m sorry. Consider us friends , I got your back. I’d rather not discuss it any further.” I did end up talking to him on the phone that day, he spoke about how he felt pressure from me to start a relationship so soon and that he wasn’t sure that he was ready at this point and that we didn’t know each other well enough yet to make that call.  He said he was worried about a few comments I made and was bothered by my mixed signals and would see how he felt the next coming days and that he “might” reach out to me on the weekend. Although sadly, he did not. It’s now been 4 days since I have spoken with him, when before I would hear from him throughout each day.

I am torn if I should continue just to leave it as it is as I haven’t heard from him, or send him a short message indicating that I am leaving either Thursday or Saturday this week to go back home. I feel so badly about how I behaved, especially when he had been so kind and supportive of me up until this point. I think he was really hurt when I lashed out at him and said he couldn’t meet my brother or even come fix up my bike like he wanted to after I told him it was okay to take things slow and date others only just the night before. I also feel like I didn’t fully respect his desire for space, and he went from contemplating us to then saying we could be “friends”. I’ve talked to some friends about this, and they have almost all said I should just leave it and walk away. What do you think? I just feel so sad that I did this to myself, once again.

L

Hi Canadian Eagle,

Yes, Anita is the best! Would be so lost without her.

That is a very good point, our memories are not objective and often change over the years. Perhaps that’s what’s happening to me more than anything.

Thanks again for your help! 🙂

L