“what this sentence means is that he does not know, for all practical purposes.” => So if we read pretty basic here, what we could say is that his lack of maturity/experience in longterm relationship made him confused about the behaviors/gestures to adopt toward me and then, combined to his disorders “he got scared, and he spit out the fear by saying what he said”?

“reads to me that he assumed there was something wrong in the situation (that meeting) because like you wrote, he has the “tendency to see the negative side in every situation”. So you were tired during that meeting, not in as good a mood as before, and he saw a lot in the situation that was not there. Maybe what he saw was that you don’t like him, that you were angry with him (I don’t know).” => i totally agree here. Having now a different look on the situation i would even go on an earlier stage in the relation when it comes to not being in as good a mood as before. When we decided to give a try, a few days after we met for the first time and from this moment his issues really started. The second time we met, his issues totally reached a pic. The third time was the day after the exam. And the last time he decided to stop everything. Looking at the situation it was normal not to feel well but he told me “i didn’t feel like it”. Something was wrong, was not here anymore since the first meeting. I would say logically the well-known butterflies in the stomach, as these feelings at the beginning of a relationship got literally killed because of what was happening in his life i guess? “The honeymoon phase is over for me” he said. But i mean, what was i supposed to do? Doing like if nothing happened for him and try to make the honeymoon phase as alive as possible? That sounds kinda unfair to me toward him.. and pretty stupid, he was sad, confused and what would have been the point to “force” him to fake being happy? Mostly when he told me that his way to cope sadness was to isolate himself and listen to some music.

“In him mind, being in a relationship with you was dangerous. So he looked for a reason to end the relationship.” => And what if the danger here was simply the commitment? He was kind of a roller-coaster physically talking (but again, i told him i didn’t mind knowing what he went through), which wasn’t the case before we decided to give a real try. What if for him, being touchy/cuddly meant accepting to let someone getting closer to him and in my case it would mean accepting that we were getting attached to each other and therefore making real the commitment? What if his issues aggravated his intrusive thoughts concerning the relation/commitment? It sounds a bit far-fetched no?

Also, i would like to “compare” with my very first boyfriend (OCD diagnosed as well but at that time i wasn’t aware of the signification of that disease and i didn’t look at all about the symptoms). I stayed with that guy from our 15/16 until our 17/18. He lost his mother when we were 16, he went into a definitive fight with his father (he doesn’t talk to him anymore) and he went to a psychiatric hospital for 6 months. Everything happened when it was only a few months we started to date. How comes he never talked about the end of the “honeymoon phase” and so? I am clearly more connected to the current guy than i was with my ex. This is where i would like to understand to which extent his behaviors toward me could be explained through the prism of OCD. With my ex we were at the same stage in our studies (high school students, same school) while it’s not the case with my other guy. We were both living at our parent’s houses, which is again not the case in the actual situation. And we were the same age (gap of 2 years with the guy now). “It is scary to believe that one is defective, inadequate, incompetent, and/or unacceptable. (feeling of shame)” => could it be a part of the explanation?

And did he make for real his final thoughts concerning me and him? I am still wondering this, looking at the kind of conversations we have pretty often. To be honest sometimes i feel like he gets carried away by his emotions, we talked a lot just like we used to do during that short period of honeymoon and a few days after he does two steps behind in the sens where he got almost “cold”. I know his therapy is something extremely new and he won’t have serious results before at least 6 months but i’d like to understand this point. Does his introvert part plays a role here? Is this possible to feel socially exhausted even through an online chat? Some of my friends told me that if i felt like he was getting carried away by the situation i should tell him and ask him what was his point toward me. To be honest i don’t really feel to do that, as i’m extremely low in mental and physical energy, i don’t even want to try to move the situation in a way or in another. I just want to see if i could figure things out by myself with external points of view..

• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Lea.

Thank you a lot Annika. I hesitated a lot before posting my story on a forum and i didn’t really where i could find a place which would fit to what i expected. I’m so thankful to have found this site and mostly you.

Many people told me that i didn’t have to figure everything out and that i should simply follow my way. There is a part of true here. But this is not how i work. What if a problematic situation could be solved instead of being directly thrown away? What if we just missed out something? What if some behaviors were just driven by a specific situation or a disorder? Nothing is all black or all white after all. I hate the fact that most part of people simply tell me “it is just the way it is, there is nothing you can do, stop wasting your time”. We are so much more complex than our appearances and some people are worth to be “dug down”. Not because we feel the need to save or rescue them but simply because we primarily value them as human being i guess. I need to understand, to solve the puzzle. Maybe it’s a flaw, i don’t really know. In my situation for sure it would have been easier if we had split up after a fight or if the mutual interest (both physical and intellectual) would have faded away. To be fair i don’t really know if i’m being too optimistic or no.

Anxiety kicks really hard in all of these disorders. To be honest, i used to think that it was an independent disorder. I don’t really remember hearing my therapist talking about that when i got diagnosed. (To be honest when i attended my therapy my ADHD was reaching a pic extremely high and i couldn’t focus longer than 5min literally and i was pretty young so..). OCD is also something which is extremely new for me. I had the cliche of the person who spends his time cleaning after her without really understand what could cause that behavior. But now i realize that it’s so much deeper than that (like every mental disorders actually).

“in light of this diagnosis (assuming he received this diagnosis?)” => Yes he did, he has been officially diagnosed OCD last week. I would gladly hear your input about what he said/did.

So to start off, many times when we talked about more or less imaginary situations, he always saw the negative/worst side of them (e.g: once we were walking and we saw a car randomly doing round trips, he said “yeh it must be a drug dealer and he’s doing that because he’s hiding drugs or i don’t know what..”. Another time we talked about hitchhiking, i told him i practiced it a lot when i traveled around the nordic countries a few years ago. He replied by “ehh.. i wouldn’t dare neither doing it nor taking someone, in the first case i would think that the person won’t depose me where i want and in the second case, i would think that i’m being trapped by different people”. And on a deeper level which affects the relations, “when something with someone could be serious, i automatically think about wedding and i panick”, “i don’t want children because what if something bad happen to them? Or they turn into killer/rapper?”). I’m someone extremely optimistic and i tend to see only the good and positive in people and situations so sometimes when he acted this way i was a bit confused so obviously i tried to make him see the good side of the stories. Although i know sometimes i didn’t have the will to do it so i just embraced the spiral with him.

Second, he had some food-habits at university (nothing concerning, he just liked a lot eating vegetables for his snack-break) but someone told him that it was unusual and that person haven’t seen someone before doing that. He talked a lot of time about that, i was wondering why until i realized he was low-key asking me if i found that weird or no (which i told him definitely no). To be fair it was a part of the micro-attractions i got toward him haha.

Third and maybe the most delicate part concerns the relation itself. He knew i wasn’t really the hookup or a simple fling type. The first time he panicked (“yeah i want to see you but as friend”, “when something could get serious with someone i automatically…”) he was the one to talk about commitment. I told him and i quote myself “i would like to take things easy and just see how it goes at the moment”, never i talked about being committed. And when he decided to stop everything he once again talked about commitment and WEDDING. And i quote myself another time “i didn’t want that you feel it became a burden and it was just about following what you wanted to do, if you wanted to talk and nothing more” (related to his issues showing up). For a longtime i thought “why the hell on earth did he block on that? i’ve never talked about that and.. logically, being serious toward someone doesn’t mean in any way expecting a ring after a few month or whatever..”. Now, what if the idea of commitment became an intrusive thought since the first time he got his panick-attack? Is that even possible? I told him “we talk a lot, there is a good flow between us, i’d like to give a try” and nothing more really commitment related. But i know he overthought a LOT during that short period. What if he couldn’t get rid of that idea of “being in relationship means that we’ll get married but i’m not ready for that but her yes”? To be honest sometimes it feels like, he wants a relationship yet he’s not ready because he doesn’t have the energy for (all his issues and starting a therapy are valuable reasons for me tho..) somehow.

Four, after he got called out by his mother about his feminine side, he talked a lot about his masculinity, saying many times he was a hetero-cis male. But the most important point here is that he became to be physically detached, he started to isolate himself and act in more “bashful” way (he got shy to show some part of his body for example).

Also, after we got our final grades (me being valedictorian, him not passing), he started to talk about our personal achievements and he had a lot sentences such as “again, i’m sure you have plenty of achievements, merits and good grades to show”, “yeah but also i’m 23 and i still live at my parent’s house” (here this is more about the tone he said the sentence). But i told him that my goals were kinda high because of my final purposes and what we studied was the thing i wanted to work in while he was going to follow another study path.

I think there are more examples but those are the only ones i can think about at the moment.

Unconsciously and all along when i was trying to understand him, i was trying to also understand myself so. Could we together be able to find our own missing part? Or is this unhealthy to think like that? When i’m with him, i don’t feel intoxicated, slowed down, maybe it’s due to the fact that we are both still looking for our own way through life? I can’t stop seeing me and him as children blocked in an adult’s body now, that’s pretty funny honestly.

Well, i know for now and for sure there is strictly nothing to hope as nothing has really changed yet (neither from his side nor from mine in our lives in a concrete way). I know we both need a lot of space and time in order to recover physically and mentally from the last few months which were very tough. I guess i also need to frame myself toward him, what you wrote brought new perspectives which make some real good echoes in me and i must think about that.

I still wonder if he is moving on or if he is doing a “fight or flight” attitude again. Why did he want to keep in touch with me? I really thought he was just being polite until i realized we kept talking as almost usual. Also, i just remembered him telling me the day he decided to stop everything “yeah you will go back to your country for summer and perhaps you’ll date boys from your country”. Did he push me to move on because he didn’t already care anymore?

” I think that your mother, having been present and dictatorial in your life, had way more power over your life choices than the absence of a father” => I think so too, mostly in the kind of men i dated previously, they all came from the same kind of social class which made me feel extremely uncomfortable on a middle term to be honest. I never realized i dated men according to what they could correspond to the perfect potential son-in-law for her.. And once again, that younger guy was an exception but still, he was the one i chose.

Hi Anita, thank you again for your response which is extremely helpful. I’m sorry for the delay i take to respond, i live in the European timezone and it’s 5:30pm here.

“he offered you the version of love he knew from the context of his mother/himself: it was about her desires, her choices, not his. She was first, he was far second.”, “(…)but not having experience in equal, or just relationship (…)”, “he doesn’t know yet how to be himself.” => Those parts make a lot of sens, he has a very big desire to please to someone and his way to do it is to almost “erase” his own needs, his own personality. At first i thought it was because he was a very adaptable person type but with time, looking at how he got confused when i asked him to be himself and not an idealistic version or when he had to take a decision for both of us sometimes and now your messages, i realize it was something else.

” Fast forward, he is a young adult, you are trying to teach him something different- it’s a bit too late: his best learning years were when he was a child.” => True, but i think he tried to make some efforts in order to “understand” what i said, as i think he sensed he could finally show without the feeling of being either judged or misconceptualized who he was (he sent me pictures of him wearing feminine clothes for example and even when we met sometimes he was dressed with feminine clothes). But i still feel it clashed with something and my acceptance towards him didn’t seem to be enough for him in order to feel totally relaxed. I agree it’s a bit too late for him to change something deep inside but, does that mean he’s stuck in the rock into this conception of a relationship? I was wondering if the fact that he still lives at his parent’s home plays a role and if maybe he leaves the family’s house, he will feel more free and therefore start to feel less stuck to the norms?

” If he did, then these were only words, expressing his temporary thoughts and feelings, no actions followed, correct?” => No he didn’t but i was just refering to the fact that he said i was the first person he wanted to try something out for serious.

“can you explain specifically what you mean by “my appearance”, in this sentence?” => i don’t have a specific look when it comes to my clothes, i’m pretty classic. But i got a lot of reflexions about it “yes but you look extremely fancy”, “very bourgeoise”, “you must come from a high social class”. And everytime i feel the need to justify my look and i start to tell my background while it’s a bit stupid. I mean, it’s just clothes, it doesn’t define who i am, for who i vote, if i’m a model of virtue etc.. and i think the same for people, they aren’t defined by their appearances, we are more than that and it seems to be a bit superficial to qualify someone according to what he/she wears, at least for me..

“can you explain what you mean by “go further away with him”? (You wrote earlier that he expressed that he was afraid of commitment, afraid that girls will want to marry him, so there may be a contradiction here..)” => The more i write the more i remember some parts of the conversations with him. He spoke it loud that was afraid of commitment (the official reason why he decided to stop with me..) BUT when we talked about our pasts, when i asked him why he never got into a serious relationship he told also that when he met a girl (always from a dating app, i’m the first girl everything happened – from the first meeting to the breakup – IRL) everytimes she never wanted to go further away in the relation with him. So yes, there is a BIG contradiction here i realize it now that i’m writing it down.

” I don’t understand what appears to be a contradiction here: that he wanted you to be serious/ commitment- serious?” => Yes, again there is a contradiction. I’m still not sure what he expected/expects from me. He knew i wasn’t the hookup/friend with benefit type and he didn’t play me just to get sex (which is something which barely happened actually).. I told him many times i wanted to take things easy and very slowly. I mean, being serious doesn’t mean you expect from someone a proposal after a few months of relationship.. I didn’t even consider we “dated” for real, we had one real date and after it was just us lost in the blue, going through a pandemic and dealing with his personal issues.. we were far to be a real relationship, we were serious toward each other for sure but after, it requires way much more to really try things out with someone right..?

Indeed, he seemed to have negatively judged me because of how easy it was for me to get material possessions, i don’t think it has to do with jealousy or even real negativity. Maybe he thought we were from different classes, me being from a higher one than him?

About his withdrawing attitude, my mother came up with a new point of view: we talked a lot for one week but lately he became very distant, cold, almost ignoring me. My mother told he that he’s realizing that maybe he still cares about me but as he’s not ready and as he’s supposed to be sure about his decisions, he’s withdrawing again. Also, he’s not mature enough yet and he somehow please himself in this situation, where we “online-flirt”. However when he realizes that things start to be more “intense”, he tends to back off because he scares himself. What do you think about that?

“when she forced him into making her choices, sending him the message that he is not capable to choose well for himself, when she overprotected him, she also weakened him.” => I totally agree with that, moreover, he hates conflicts, especially family ones, he rather accepts something than arguing even if it doesn’t fit with what he totally wants. I would say also that his mother was his main influence according to what i could understand. When he grew up, maybe his only reference was his mother as his father was often on business travel. And therefore, he developed more his feminine side due to an almost missing strong masculine figure? We say that we develop our gender role according to what we see in our family right? Moreover, he has a very big sensitivity (isn’t it a common point with all the anxious/introvert people tho)

“he chose to be the feminine child that she wanted him to be (not realizing that she wanted him feminine in the sense of submitting to her will, but she didn’t want him to appear feminine.” => I’ve never thought about that, this is extremely interesting and i think it could make totally sens. His mother seems to be the “main” boss at home, the main authority. If so then, to which extent could it affect his way of dating? Which kind of girls is he looking for? The same figure as his mother or the opposite? At first i would have said the total opposite, however I look like a bit like a “bourgeoise” in my clothings (to quote some of my friends who described my style), there is nothing “outlaw” in me, even my studies path is a kind of model (i’m the valedictorian of our promotion), i barely go out and i have a student job.

I do feel strongly for him indeed. We were for each other the first time in many areas (me for him as first person he wanted to be with for a serious thing and him for me the youngest person i felt for and all the meanings behind this choice)

If I remember correctly he asked me a lot about how long did i stay with them, how old were they, from which kind of social environment they were with a focus on the social part actually. All my ex are from a “wealthy” environment. He asked me a lot about my education as well. I got a very traditional one, very “bourgeoise” and everytimes we talked about that i could sens he felt uncomfortable, i don’t really know why.

We are both from the same “social class” (“middle-upper class” to quote himself) i told him i didn’t care about those kind of stuffs. But he seemed to be kinda preoccupied by those kind of things. I mean, i didn’t choose the kind of education i received, i won’t hide my personality or my past, that would be lying about me. I accept him as what he is and i think i have the right to expect the same from someone isn’t it?

Hi Anita,

I would say the second option is the most likely one. As far as i could understand, his mother was very strict, she pushed him after high school into a business school, she is stuck to the rules and she was the one who “attacked” him on his apparence (which isn’t masculine enough for her apparently).  His father is the “cool” figure indeed, however he’s not often at home because of his job.

In addition, “my” boy is the elder of three children. I would say he has the maturity of a big brother but deep inside he’s still a young kid who had to grow up faster because of the responsibilities which were imposed by his parents regarding his younger brother and sister maybe? These are only suppositions.

I know he has a lot of issues to accept himself and honestly i’m glad that he never thought about staying with me in order to just flatter his ego, he never tried to lower me either.

He told me when we talked about his issues that he felt extremely apathetic and when he said that i knew it would affect what he felt for me. This was one of the reasons i asked him if he wanted space and alone time, like i told him, i really didn’t want that he felt the potential relation became a burden during this hard time.

Why did he refuse to give to himself time and space while he told me that in order to rest he needed to be alone? Why did he push himself in a situation where he wasn’t comfortable? Why i feel like he was extremely concerned by the commitement? I mean, he knew i didn’t want a summer fling or a hookup, but once again, i told him i wasn’t expecting from him a proposal, i just wanted to take it very slow and easy regarding the circumstances and.. yeah, for me, being slow at the beginning, is the only way to try out if something with someone has a real potential or no.

He knew we had/have a strong connection, he acknowledged it as well. Everything was new for both of us as it was the first time i could spend that much time talking with someone and the most important, that was the very first time i felt comfortable and confident with someone that quick and so did he according to himself. I was ready to support him no matter what would be his decision if he wanted whether to temporary stop or no, he knew it. How comes in a few days, he could gift me a big box of chocolates, consider with his friends that we were a “serious thing” and all of sudden decide he “didn’t feel comfortable” and that “the honeymoon phase was over” while it didn’t even start at all (from a very down to earth point of view)?

Some of my friends told me that maybe he just didn’t feel comfortable to be in a relationship at all due to his issues and that would have nothing to see with me. I don’t think i forced him into something he would feel uncomfortable as i asked him many times if he was sure about his decision.

I really don’t get his current attitude either. How comes last week we talked everyday many hours per day, everything was super nice, friendly and flirty at the same time and suddenly he’s very distant? I would have understood if we got bored but the point is, we were far the be bored as last time we got a long talk we stayed to talk from 4:00pm until 1:30am in non-stop..

What am i supposed to do now? I feel like i did everything i could do, i don’t want to lose him but i don’t know what are his positions toward me and i don’t think he really knows himself to be honest..