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  • #110080
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    Well, part of it is that she has decided to stay with her current job despite hating it(which could be a conflict). Pay and benefits apparently too good to pass up. The more I think of it, the more I think she wants to go back home. Did pick up that she thinks the area out here is backward and not as sophisticated as back home.

    As much as I would have loved to have her as a part of my life, I am not really seeing that happening. In a way, mad at myself for thinking that it might work after having given her time.

    Wondering if I didn’t fall in love with the idea of her instead of her.

    At first, I felt anger toward her. Now, I kind of feel sadness for her. Sort of like watching a lost soul wandering, I know, I have been there. I know it sounds silly, but this was the first time I have ever had that kind of emotional connection to someone.

    Maybe it was partly my fault. I have this reputation for machine-like resilience. When my father died, i did not take any time from work to grieve, only to go and take care of the legal arraignments, etc. I don’t show many emotions of sadness, joy, etc. If you were to look at my face, you would nearly always see a similar expression. Hostility toward the opposition would probably come the closest to being the emotion showed. I have had people say that I never smile, not sure if I am even capable of it. Usually wear a grave expression uniformly.

    As I am typing this, sitting and listening to Shostakovich’s Fifth Symphony by the Bavarian Radio Symphony. Seemingly fitting piece full of tortured angst and pathos.

    So, at the end of the day, back to being where I was and figuring out how to get my house back to myself.

    Amazing how one series of interactions with one person can elicit such a range of emotions and feelings. Sometimes wonder if I would have been better off just putting up with the dull pain of loneliness that I am now back to.

    #110099
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    Like watching a lost soul wondering, you wrote about watching her. How true to so many of us. And you, wearing “a grave expression uniformly” going about life, a hidden soul inside you, a hidden heart that came alive for a moment, meeting this woman and now back to a dull existence.

    Does it have to be this way? (I type with anger in my fingertips)

    I will be back at the computer later. Strangely, I feel speechless. Strangely because I am hardly ever speechless, with nothing to say. I feel a sadness, a powerlessness. Will be back later, maybe sooner than I think.

    anita

    #110108
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    Oh well, what is the line: the road to hell is paved with good intentions? Or, as one of the character classes in Warhammer 40K states: Hope is the first step in the road to disappointment.

    Not sure it really matters. I had unexpected projects pop up, so basically living at the office anyway. Wonder what would happen if I said that I was too stressed to handle other people’s crap who claim to be too stressed? Perhaps she was right, my schedule doesn’t really allow for much of anything. Court scheduled a trial of mine for a habitual offender during a period of time later out that I was supposed to be gone. Sometimes being the always reliable one sucks. Sometimes being the one who doesn’t complain about workload sucks.

    It is not like I meet a ton of people, so not sure where to go from here on the relationship front. I am not sure I even trust my analysis of potential SO’s. Almost all of my interactions with women seem to be with dysfunctional folks. In many ways, feel like I got my stuff somewhat straightened out way too late.

    You asked if it has to be like this, well not sure. As I noted before, even her boss hinted suggestions. People will always think that there is something better out there. And, who knows, maybe there is: the question is, how long are you willing to wait, and is it really better?

    All I know is that I am tired of being jerked around. As much as it hurts to say it (embarrassing to cry as a tough-as-nails prosecutor, even if only in the office solo), I just can’t take the wants to talk to me one day, acts like I don’t exist the next cycle (didn’t even look at me). Will have to start making sure that I am unavailable the next time she wants to talk, or the next time she wants advice on plants, etc. I don’t know what else to do. She has made her choice, and while I don’t understand it, I am not going to be part of the games anymore. While I mourn the loss of what could have been, and truly feel sadness about what appears to be her broken condition, I can’t take the yo-yo’ing. I gave her time, she could have chosen a life-long partnership, she chose to go with nothing.

    Still angry myself for silly thought that this could have worked.

    #110128
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    It makes logical and emotional sense to reject the yo-yo’ing dynamic you experienced with her, to reject a future with same. It is simply not healthy for you, or for anyone. I agree: she chose what she chose, and so, it is done.

    You wrote in the post before last: ” this was the first time I have ever had that kind of emotional connection to someone.” In adult life, it is the first time, but as a child, you had a very strong emotional connection to the adults in your life, the ones who handled you. They betrayed you and you shut down, locked your vulnerability for safekeeping. You locked your smile, the joy and the hurt, the acute hurt, and what you are left to experience is “only” a dull , as you called it: “the dull pain of loneliness that I am now back to.”

    When you shut down the pain, it is not a very efficient process because the pain keeps leaking. If you went to competent therapy, slowly, gradually, you would integrate the acute hurt with your awareness… gradually, in small amounts so not to be overwhelmed, and then, as you do, a bit of a smile will come back, some joy.

    Without therapy, something still can be done. Slowly, gradually, keep a bit open to making things better for yourself. A woman who is reliable, who doesn’t forget the last meeting and is welcoming of the next, building intimacy, trust over time.

    And your home, the woman who is living there, there is a … humane way to have her live elsewhere.

    It is not over till it’s over. And it is not over yet.

    anita

    #110183
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    In many respects, kind of the same pattern, provided her with a benefit and then after she received the benefit, I might as well not exist. Wish it was easier to unwind the emotional connection.

    Perhaps I should have taken the comment to a coworker more seriously that she just doesn’t like people anymore. I don’t rightly know. Perhaps I should have picked up on some of her prior relationship partners, but did not have that info until after the fact. Though, I do remember seeing her with a tatted up guy several months ago, but never thought too much of it at the time. Now I wonder, especially after having seen two of her former boyfriends come through the criminal system. Perhaps she just can’t function with stability and some semblance of normalcy. I just wish I was better able to stop thinking about the mess and concentrate on other things.

    As for me, I am at a bit of a loss. Amusingly, had two women strike up conversations with me, but at least one of them is ~18 years younger than I am, the other is ~13 years younger by my estimation. I know both of them, but thought that it was weird for one to sit down at the table I was at and start a conversation.

    Again, find myself in the position I have been for the last ~8 years. Being the lonely reliable one, at the office keeping things going behind the scenes. Had next week’s schedule change twice, and lost several hours of preparation on a case. Perhaps she was right, I just don’t have time for a relationship. Well on my way to another 60-70 hour work week, and we’re supposed to pick up a few things for people who are too stressed with their workload. Funny, I never see them after hours really late. Heck, sometimes they don’t even make full work weeks.

    Not really sure where to go from here relationship wise. I have come to realize that education and intellect don’t always equal good decisions in relationships.

    Not sure how to present my softer/kinder side without seeming silly. Slow, compassionless, remorseless and step-by-step demolition of the opposition I am good with. Expressing care and softer feelings, not so much. Of course, I deal with enough psychopaths and other unsavory people to realize that everybody tries to show that they “care.” When I have attempted to show my softer side, had generally resulted in getting taken advantage of. What’s the line, no good deed goes unpunished?

    Ironically, didn’t date in college/grad school and early in career because I felt I didn’t have the resources to do so. Now, I have the resources and no time and not many options to choose from.

    As far as family goes, not sure what to do. I am almost tempted to simply move myself. Probably the only way I will get separation.

    Rather depressed about the whole thing, but mostly just tired of what Thoreau (think I have the right one) would call a life of quiet desperation.

    #110185
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    Working late and listening to music. Mary Hopkins “Those were the days” queued up. Interesting how a piece of music can be somewhat of a reflection of life.

    #110192
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    At the end of the song “Those were the days” it reads:
    “Oh my friend we’re older but no wiser
    For in our hearts the dreams are still the same”

    Older, but in our hearts the dreams are still the same, and your dream is still to-love-and-be-loved, at least that dream got triggered by this woman. Only a few days ago you dreamed it and felt that hope. This is why it saddened me so much, that you dreamed and hoped and it didn’t come true.

    You do work many, many hours, almost like a machine, a prosecuting machine, taking on others’ work.

    You are not a machine. Machines don’t live in quiet desperation and they don’t worry about looking silly.

    You wrote: “Not sure how to present my softer/kinder side without seeming silly”- you looking silly can be adorable.

    I still think a woman 13 years or so younger than you is a dating possibility. Getting to know a woman (another woman), dating will be further opportunity to develop your Emotional Intelligence. I think you made significant progress in this kind of education on this very thread! You started your education and am doing very well, I says. Please don’t give up and don’t give in to that… quiet desperation. Don’t go back to it. Continue instead on this path of learning and reaching out.

    anita

    #110249
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    Kind of getting the feeling that she may be where I was for so many years, with the difference that she had a live-in significant other for a few months. Her prior partners remind me of comments about some people latching on to whatever happens to pass by. Still don’t understand her, especially when so many others were suggesting yes to her.

    But, now have to focus on moving forward myself. Need to forget about her, but need to focus on retaining what so learned.

    Still trying to figure out if the whole thing is really worth it to go through again. Yes, it was an amazing feeling unlike anything I have experienced before, but the amount of time involved and the lack of certainty cause concerns. If I were certain that I could experience that feeling again, I would be all for it. But, I can’t.

    #110251
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    About certainty: there is a very high probability that how you experienced life so far, as an adult, will continue to be your experience- the dull pain, the quiet desperation; overwork and joylessness. On the other hand there is a reasonable probability that your life experience will significantly improve if you continue on this route of gaining Emotional Intelligence and wisely reaching out to potential partners. At the least, it will make life more interesting, wouldn’t it?

    Now that you felt what you felt for her, there is a problem in your expectation. I think you were able to feel what you felt because you had no expectations and it caught you by surprise. With an expectation, I don’t think it is even possible. So, somehow, got to clear up the expectation brain department.

    anita

    #110290
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    Part of my problem is that I avoided relationships for many years. The few brief forays became associated with not so great outcomes. Ultimately, it became associated with pain, like watching the dysfunction in the family.

    I guess I thought that this would be different. Both of us were older than my previous relationship attempts. I did have some expectations, and guess that I let my feelings override my common sense.

    Just have real issues with the uncertainty of dating. Plus, good things are rather fleeting in the personal realm. When things were going well, felt really great. But, within a relatively short time, turned into sadness and mostly a return to the dull pain punctuated by periods of intense sadness of a level I have never felt before.

    Heck, have previously been diagnosed with depression and anxiety disorder, I can be sad and on edge without anyone’s help. Why would I want to add to it?

    Perhaps I was being naïve, and under the influence feelings that I am not used to. Happy isn’t a word that describes me generally, and I hadn’t felt it in years if not decades, and to be honest, prior to that couldn’t remember the last time I felt it. In the last call I had with her, actually got her to laugh and told her that it made me glad(probably a mistake). Then, less than 48 hours later, I might as well have been dead.

    There is also the issue that I had basically vowed to myself to let the dysfunction of my family die with me. The easiest way to do that is to simply not be in a relationship. Perhaps that is a source of conflict in looking at potential partners. So many issues and interactions to think about.

    #110297
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    Have come to realize that I got lied to when I let me mother move out her, I got lied to by the woman I cared about, I get lied to on a daily basis on the job. I have also realized that when I am giving, it comes back to bite me.

    now back to the same dull pain and joyless existence, except with a family member so won’t leave, and who never had any interest in leaving. All that I got for my kindness was 1.5 years of false promises and a by financial outlay once I figure out what to do. I am probably going to have to be the one that moves.

    I don’t really have pleasure in the things I used to do.

    #110305
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    No wonder the prospect of a relationship is associated in your brain with pain- from a young age and on. And plenty of experience to reinforce it.

    You wrote: ” I can be sad and on edge without anyone’s help. Why would I want to add to it?”- a correction, if I may: you did not add to your painful emotions by interacting with this woman, you only became more aware of these emotions that have been in you for decades.

    The dullness of the pain before these interactions is due to reduced awareness of the pain, not to it being there less pain before you met her.

    The reason you became more aware of the pain following the hope and joy is because hoping and feeling joy unlocked the pain when the hope was frustrated.

    Awareness of pain is not a fun prospect. So, if you choose, if you can choose to return to the dullness, the quiet despearation, that will be understandable. But it will always be that: dull pain and quiet desperation, or worse. With breaks of numbness and a fleeting good feeling when you eat an especially decadent cake, or something like that.

    What a choice to be made: dull, ongoing pain OR occasional acute pain and joy, curisoity, interest in life. I think this is what it comes down to. What do you think?

    anita

    #110307
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    I can choose to try to love someone, to tell them how great it is to hear the laugh, to tell them the I enjoy being around them, to offer them freely of myself… I can’t make them love me back.

    So many of the women out here have been, or in the process of being, spoken for so to speak. It seems that there is a reason the ones who aren’t are not.

    I have contemplated trying this again. Just asking myself if the pain is worth it.

    #110308
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear XenopusTex:

    “So many of the women… spoken for”- you mean, so many of the women are already taken, is what you mean?

    Regarding “Just asking myself if the pain is worth it.”- it is the awareness of the same pain that has been with you all these years, decades. The pain is already there. The choice is about taking on the awareness of what is already there, bit by bit, as a personal choice, or letting it be “only” a dull pain, at best.

    I realized it some time ago, that what I have been fearing, that is, that something bad will happen in the future (in your case, here, the fear of future rejection or lack of reciprocity of lov)- that what I feared in the future tense already happened.

    It is still, today, a mind boggling realization- and to be aware of how it felt then- I wish there was another way to move forward, but there is no other way but the bit by bit awareness of what was.

    anita

    #110378
    XenopusTex
    Participant

    I know you said that the pain is not new, but just a realization of what was there. Seems different though. More intense and more directed. More like a complete slap in the face after attempting to reach out in love and trust. Doesn’t feel like the continuing pain of loneliness.

    The weeks when things were going great were amazing. I can see where the line about behind every great man is a woman comes from. But, the end game was still disappointment and sadness.

    Other goals have been easy, but perhaps I wasn’t fighting myself over them. Millionaire by 40, check – 3 years early. But, I hadn’t convinced myself to stay single and celibate with regard to that.

    It’s funny. Sometimes human actions are easy to understand. For example, there are generally only a handful of motives for murder: money/advancement(broadly speaking), jealousy, revenge, sadism(would toss just because in here), and extra-special stupid (depraved heart).

    So, why is it so hard to deal with relationships?

    And yes, the ratio of men to women out here has even made new in sources around the country. Simply stated, a woman could almost be Grendel’s Mother and find a guy out here. Just about any woman with a pulse can find a man out here. This has always led me to wonder why some women out here settle for what I see them with. This also makes me nervous about those who have not already found a guy. As I learned with the last woman: educated, seemingly intelligent, physically attractive … then learn that she is lying and manipulative.

    So, I am really at a loss. I believe that I can be loving and caring to the right woman, despite my hard nosed reputation. Just doesn’t seem to matter.

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