Dear Seaturtle:

In response to your Nov 28, 12:41 pm post: I wrote to you:” Or.. N appears to understand and has better social skills than your friend’s boyfriend“. and you told me about your friend’s boyfriend being “very immature and yes, bad people skills”, yelled at her, shoved her out of the house. One evening, your friend’s boyfriend was playing basketball in a bad area where there are frequent arrests and violence. He texted her at 7:30 pm that he was wrapping up the game and was on his way home, She called you terrified at 9 pm because he was still not home, gunshots were reported in that area, and there was no response to the texts she sent him. He did make it home at 10 pm, saying he got caught up with another basketball game.

“She was absolutely furious and crying, she told me he had no idea why she would be upset, he said ‘I was just hanging out with my friends why are you freaking out.‘”.

When you told this story to your boyfriend N, he said that when he was growing up, no one cared about his whereabouts and he knew that if he was stranded, no one was coming to help him: “you learn that in life no one will save you“.

“He went on to say ‘In our relationship I had to make the decision to allow you to care about me, and tell you where I was and when I would be home. My initial reaction was the same as [my friend’s bf], I would shudder at you caring about me and my whereabouts, but I learned you just cared about me and so I still to this day work on telling you against my instincts.‘ I found this all very interesting but psychologically made sense to me. What do you think about this?”-

– You caring about his safety made him shudder, his word. To shudder= to tremble convulsively as a result of fear or revulsion/ to violently shake in horror or extreme disgust (online dictionary).

It is against his instincts (against anyone’s instincts) to unnecessarily be filled with fear or revulsion/ disgust. It is against N’s instincts to tell you about his whereabouts (where he was and when he’d be home) because it makes him feel either fear or disgust, or both.

This is one explanation (in addition to him being a workaholic) why he was late to the first date with you and why he didn’t show up at all to your third date (“he was late for the first date… our third date he..  stood me up” (7/29). And why he has been repeatedly late since (“Last weekend he was an hour late to my house and him being late is a pattern in our relationship“, Oct 11). I figure that in his mind he is resisting being controlled by you when he is late or a no-show.

By being late, he keeps you.. in your place, so to speak, a place of depending on him to show up- or not- and when. He doesn’t shove you, like your friend’s boyfriend did to her, an overt act of asserting one’s power over another. N.. does it covertly by making you wait, never knowing when he will show up.

N’s motivation to assert power over you was very evident at the grocery store recently, when he harassed you about having more cash in your wallet that he figured you should have. That was an overt behavior of asserting unfair power/ control over you. This is why that and the other example were game changers for me.

Back to your yesterday’s post: “Speaking of N, knowing how to act as a good person, and when he is tired is his more real self is very concerning, and I want to make sure I don’t accuse him of this (in my head, not to him) and it not be true. Because accusing someone of having these sociopathic tendencies is very serious to me. My dad has many sociopathic tendencies and I definitely want to avoid this in a future partner. But perhaps it is the reason I have had such doubts about N, yet it is hard to be sure of this”-

-(1) “It is hard to be sure of this“- N’s controlling behaviors are usually covert. This is why it’s difficult to be sure. The example in the grocery was an exception. I suppose he was too tired to operate covertly at that time. Plus, N is a complex person: sometimes he considers what you say.. maybe he does. I don’t know and can’t know what goes on in his brain at all times. It took the two OVERT examples of late to lead me to understand a part of him that he usually keeps in a Covert State.

(2) “Speaking of N, knowing how to act as a good person, and when he is tired is his more real self is very concerning, and I want to make sure I don’t accuse him of.. having these sociopathic tendencies is very serious to me“-

– “sociopathic tendencies” sounds like an extreme term to a common behavior of trying to appear like a good person in public, so to be liked and to promote one’s interests. It takes effort. This is why it’s tiring. Then in private, when living with someone 24/7, let’s say, a person is too tired to execute an appearance 24/7.

I just got your most recent post of a minute ago:

“for responses that you bolded parts yourself I am going to leave them as is so I don’t change the message, let me know if it is as all confusing!”- that’s fine.

“wow, it is scary for me to imagine that his honest state is authentically angry. How do I know this for sure? There are times I want to bring up a topic, regarding something in our relationship, like him being late or a lack of something in the relationship, and I have to walk on egg shells to speak about it cause it will upset him“-

– (1) I wrote the above about him being late as a way to control you BEFORE you submitted the latest post. Isn’t it amazing. So, yes, being late is his way to keep you anxious (waiting for him) and therefore, under his control. Another way he controls you is to express being upset when you bring up a topic he doesn’t want you to bring up. A person walking on egg shells is a controlled person.

(2) “How do I know this for sure?“- you know for sure by his overt behaviors: the recent example in the grocery store and the one while driving are overt. There are people who never say the words and otherwise display the overt behaviors that he exhibited on those two occasions.

“I don’t feel like it was always this way though. When we lived together and I told him something that bothered me, he felt sad that he hurt me…I have seen genuine authentic sadness in his eyes… He teared up as well and was wiping away tears as he saw me so sad. Is this not a sign of authenticity?“- it can be a sign that he is qualified to play Shakespeare on the stage with you. it is only recently that I criticized someone in real-life, someone who was repeatedly rude. He was sitting in front of me. He started sort of crying and saying that he wants to be a good person. He looked very upset. I think it was an act. And I was wondering the morning after, remembering the scene, how he appeared so genuine. I figured that in his act, he brought into his awareness some real, genuine sadness that he felt before.. so he really felt sad, but not about my criticism.

His motivation was to make me feel sorry for him because my opinion about him matters to him in regard to a certain self-interest he has (I don’t want to elaborate on it here).

“So the question is, is he being polite because he genuinely understood our conversation that words do matter? Or is he pretending he understands“- you are asking this about a man you’ve been in a relationship since Aug 2021, a man you doubted as the right man for you since Dec 2022, soon to be a whole year of doubting him and thinking about breaking up with him. For a long time- because of the gloriously positives you shared about him vs the .. minor-sounding dissatisfactions you expressed about him- I thought it was all your projection of F into N. After your two recent examples of his overt major misbehaviors on his part, I changed my mind. (I say major as in the difference between the way you described him before and his behaviors in these two examples is MAJOR)

“How can I be sure about this? I don’t want to incorrectly accuse him here.“- it is impossible for anyone to read his mind and know if at any one moment he means what he says. Rely on the overt examples and other overt examples you never shared about, if they exist.

“When we first met I was making a lot more money. I worked at Verizon and did very well in sales… N met this version of Seaturtle. I paid 50/50 for a lot of things we did…  we went to a Hawaiian BBQ place for dinner…  about 2 months before officially moving out. It was like a ‘house-cleaning’ I had with my dad. He told me he felt taken advantage of, he said I lived in a fantasy world… He did pay for the majority of things now… a day or two later…  he said it wasn’t about money, oh yea he said ‘I am not asking you to pay rent, it is not about money..”- it WAS about money.

F’s motivation during those “house cleaning” sessions was to control you through guilt. I don’t know if N wants to control you through guilt about spending money on you. What is clear to me is that N really dislikes or hates spending money on you for some time, by now.

“It is just hard for me to imagine N being someone who is more invested in style. I guess what do you mean by style?“- by style I mean appearances, trying to create a favorable impression of oneself in others with no care for the connection or lack of connection between the appearance/  impression and authenticity.

“N is off-put by people trying to tell him what he wants to hear. He is actually constantly alert of others not being authentic with him….hm“- it is common for people to get annoyed by other people doing what they are doing.

“For example at my cast party dinner after opening night, we sat at a table with several cast members. I saw him staring at this girl.. He responded ‘I was trying to tell if she was acting a certain way to impress us.’“- she was doing what he is in the habit of doing. He doesn’t like to see/ be confronted by his own motivation and behavior, is my guess.

“I responded to him ‘Well she is only 16 and the rest of the cast is older I think she was trying to fit in and be her mature self,'”- N is invested in appearing mature.. Same motivation as hers.

“he nodded in agreement. If someone can spot someone not being 100% authentic, does that make then authentic or not?“- if one gets angry at another’s behavior, a behavior that is not rude or abusive or destructive in any way, it’s likely because they see their own behavior in that other person and feel shame about it, or some kind of other distress.

“I am feeling appreciative of your support right now Anita”- you are very welcome.

As to your question: “Can you help me come up with a post-breakup plan? Or is this something between Seaturtle and hatch only?“- no, I can help you, Seaturtle.

It’s been almost a whole year, if I count 8 months back from the time of your first thread, July 29, 2023: “Please help me, my mind hasn’t rested in 8 months“, that you’ve been considering breaking up with him. I don’t think that you are currently ready to break up with him, are you?

Whether you break up with him or not is .. or should be totally up to you and not at all up to me. So, I will help you best I can in putting your mind to rest following a year of unrest in whatever way it takes: breaking up with him or… (don’t know the option, I mean, if there is an option)…?

anita