Dear tinytealeaf:

“When we first met, I was myself – but that was the tea leaf that was in the dark but was comfortable being in the dark… I deeply miss the tea leaf that came alive… Did we both wake each other up? Does he feel the same way but does he just handle this sadness differently?“-

– from what you shared in both threads, seems to me that you both woke each other up, both came alive as a result of your friendship until you got obsessed with him/ had a limerence experience, him being your Limerent Object (LO) : “I started to miss him more than my other friends, and I started having constant thoughts about him that wouldn’t go away in my head… Five months after this back and forth, he asked for space…  I’ve had a limerence experience (more than a decade ago and I was single and the LO was single then) and I wonder if this is another limerence again. Is this just me falling for people who are unavailable?” (July 14).

Online definition: “Limerence is a state of mind where a person is obsessed with another person and has a strong desire for emotional reciprocation. It is a feeling of being madly in-love with someone and experiencing euphoria or despair, depending on the response of the other person”.

“My partner does not love dancing“- you danced with/ in regard to the man we’re talking about: emotionally dancing!

“Were you happy or were you also in the dark with your flash light, Anita?“- for the great majority of my life I was not happy and my flashlight didn’t have any batteries in it, so it didn’t work.

“For a long time, tea leaf was on her own and holding up strong, taking up all the different responsibilities and stresses in life with no problem. But he walked in and tea leaf did not expect that. Anita, are you saying tea leaf needs to find her own happiness before another person like him walks into my life?“- a song comes to mind, Girls just want to have fun: taking on too many responsibilities for too long is exhausting and draining. You needed to have fun, so you danced (emotionally) with this man, and you got carried away (limerence). I think that you need to find a way or ways to have fun so to balance your life as a very responsible person!

“Do you think I was taken for granted? And that there is maybe an imbalance of power in this friendship?“- from what you shared, I don’t think that he took you for granted. I do think that there’s been an imbalance of power in this relationship ever since you got obsessed with him, needing or wanting him more than he needed you. But I don’t think this power imbalance has been his doing: I think it’s a result of the limerence experience that took hold in your mind and heart.

“I think not knowing where I stand with him hurts… The hope – just waiting here without reaching out and not knowing whether I would get a response even if I reach out – hurts.  We were able to talk through so many things but we couldn’t get through this? The thought that this is all my fault for pushing him away potentially also hurts“- I think that you need to find ways to have real-life fun, on one hand, and on the other: get some professional help perhaps, if it’s possible for you, so to heal from this obsession/ limerence experience.

anita

Dear SadSoul:

“I don’t trust anyone online…  I am cautious of all online contacts. I might be overly cautious… I don’t want you to take my cautiousness personally or to heart. It is so I am and it’s not my intention that it hurt or upset you… I never intended to seem like I was ignoring or didn’t care that you were reaching out.“-

-It took me some time but I finally understand what happened: I tend to take words literally and am not sophisticated when it comes to virtual emotional closeness. So, when  you invited me again and again for (virtual) coffee and food in your home (first time it happened to me online!), I mistakenly thought (without thinking) that you trusted me, because you wouldn’t invite a person you don’t trust into your home.

In my mind’s eye, following your warm, enthusiastic invitations for coffee and food and other expressions, I saw a very friendly SadSoul standing by the open gate to your property, welcoming me with open arms (a smell of coffee and scones in the air). And so, I responded to that image with strong positive emotions.

This morning, I am correcting this image: if I walked into your property in real-life (with a sign saying I am anita), I will be faced not with a very friendly, welcoming SadSoul, but perhaps with barking guard dogs chasing me out of the property, and an alarmed SadSoul pointing a weapon at me, or calling the police.

Now I understand that what you meant to say when you invited me into your home is that you like me in the virtual context, as in saying: in a different world (Fantasy) I would invite you into my home!

I apologize, I wasn’t sophisticated enough to understand correctly.

In my July 24 post I quoted from our exchange starting June 9. Look at what I told you June 9: “I would be such a friend irl! As much as I love my favorite kinds of food (extra-cheese pizza, extra- and I mean ALL cheese, melted), I’d turn my back on the cheese and attend to SadSoul!“- this is a little girl’s voice, genuinely excited about showing you (in real- life) that you are way more important to me than the food you offered me so many times.

What I boldfaced right above is not a smart, sophisticated online conversationalist- it’s a little girl, a loving little girl.

Back to what you wrote in your most recent post: I don’t trust anyone online…  I am cautious of all online contacts. I might be overly cautious… I don’t want you to take my cautiousness personally or to heart“- this morning, I am adjusting my mental image of you:

SadSoul likes anita the online contact, and she is cautious with, and distrustful of this online contact, but it’s nothing personal because she is cautious with, and distrustful of all online contacts.

It’s been my intellectual deficit/ lack of online sophistication that’s been responsible to this misunderstanding.

I would like to abandon this topic and invite you to share anything you’d like to share with me.

anita

Dear tinytealeaf:

Welcome back! (How appropriate: tiny rea leaf posing in tiny buddha!)

“I found one of my favorite songs from a long time ago today – ‘the most familiar stranger’ –  that’s exactly like how I feel about my friend.  The lyrics talks about how it might have been better if we could have controlled the excitement of our souls when we encounter our mirroring soul, then we would not have fallen into this place where we miss someone so much“-

– I just listened to this pretty- sounding song and read the lyrics (translated to English): “Do you still remember-  the moonlit ocean outside the window?- Do you still remember- it was love that allowed us to light up the night?-  Why did we later use silence in place of dependence (on each other)?- Once a starry night gradually became hazy-….

“- We’ve become the world’s most familiar strangers- from today (we’ll) have ups and downs on our own, and grieve by ourselves–  We are to blame for loving so fiercely- loving so deeply- so that eventually when we awoke- (we became) silent, stranded, separated- and couldn’t return to our right state of mind- If we could have suppressed- (our) excited spirit during our first meeting- maybe tonight, I would not let- myself suffocate in my memories-…”.

This song, tinytealeaf, perfectly fits with what you shared. This is my understanding, using the lyrics (the words from the lyrics are boldfaced):  Before you met him, you were stranded and separated. There was no light reflected by the ocean outside (your) window, and the night was dark. But you were used to it, adjusted to it, your emotions were suppressed. So much so, that you weren’t bothered much by the darkness, you had your own little flashlight.

After you met him, the light was on, the sky was starry, and the ocean was moonlit.  The light was in you loving so fiercely, so deeply; your spirit excited by deep, fierce love!

And then, he left and silence replaced the joyful sounds of your excited spirit. You were back to being stranded, separated but not as suppressed, so you felt more acutely stranded and separated than before he came into your life. You found yourself left alone to grieve the excitation that is gone, alone to suffocate in the memories of how it felt to be truly alive!

Did you notice, tinytealeaf, that older dogs (except for the very old or sick) behave just like puppies, wagging their tails and running excitedly, every little thing excites them?

Humans start life as excited young children, but almost every human adult (and often older children as well) no longer behaves like an excited young child. This happens because over time, humans react to life stresses and challenges by repressing and suppressing emotions. Sometimes to the extent of feeling dead much of the time, or at least, no longer feeling truly alive. I think that this man we are talking about had the affect of bringing you back to feeling-truly-alive.

I remember a few wees ago, I danced to a song outdoors, in front of live music. I felt so ALIVE, so joyfully alive that for a few days later, I grieved the fact that the feeling was gone, that the feeling-so-acutely alive.. was gone. It was as if while dancing, I was on the top of a mountain, and days later I was falling off that mountain. It was almost as if it’d be better if I didn’t dance at all.

That’s the price of temporarily and acutely awakening to life after long-term deadness/ numbness (the repression and suppression) of our emotions.

“I want to go back to the happy tea leaf that does not wait for anyone (my friend) and does not beg anyone.  The tea leaf that is happy on her own“- tea leaf, for a long time before this man appeared in your life, wasn’t acutely happy, like a puppy, was she?

anita

Dear SadSoul:

“I need to feel safe and you need to feel safe too. So far where I feel safe doesn’t feel safe for you and vice versa“- a misunderstanding: I said no to Facebook and Instagram not because I feel unsafe to make it happen for the purpose of communicating with you privately, but because I don’t know how to make it happen.

Why has it been unsafe for you to create a new email just for the purpose of sharing it in this public forum (people have shared email addresses in the forums many times)?

“Thank you for sharing how you’re feeling” – it’s kind of you to thank me for sharing how I’m feeling when what I shared caused you hurt.

“I had noticed you weren’t communicating as much and thought you’d been busy with all the interesting things you’ve had going on. The insecure little voice in my head sneaked the thought in that it might be that I’ve done something wrong, but I chose not to listen to that voice“- for me, to reach out for..  a loving personal contact (knowing your name, finally knowing what sport you’ve been talking about, what country you were born in, what country you reside in; hearing your voice, hearing the emotion in your voice and sharing mine, etc.), and to be ignored or rejected is a painful experience.

It seems to me that you don’t trust me personally (on email) with the kind of information I mentioned right above, as if you think that I could be a bad person who will use information you provide to harm you.

* June 9: “I’m scared of my choices in friends“- didn’t trust me to be a friend? Suspected I may be an enemy if given information about you, such as your name and country of residence?

“I am sad, and have felt hurt and misunderstood, and never had the intention of making you feel this way.“- I am sorry that you feel sad, hurt and misunderstood.

What part of you- that you think I misunderstood-  would you like me to understand?

anita

Dear SadSoul:

You are welcome. I want to clarify: you did nothing wrong, it’s just that you didn’t care to communicate with me privately, while I cared: a 1.5 months of an  unreciprocated caring to communicate privately. You are not guilty for not feeling like emailing/ phone calling me any more than I am guilty for feeling hurt about it.

I appreciate our wonderful communication here. It felt so good that I wanted more. I still value our exchanges here, 33-pages of it.

anita

Dear Carol:

“she would start to make more efforts in the future in order to solve this because she cared about our friendship…. we agreed that it was a good thing we talked this out and we planned our next hangout next week. So in some way, I feel relieved ? I think that she’s genuinely sorry and the future will tell how it turns out.”- your and her future efforts (or lack of)  will indeed tell how it turns out. I hope that it turns out well.!

anita

Dear omyk:

(I am adding the boldface feature to the quotes in this post): “Every once in a while, I have this itch to date again… What system of accountability mechanism can I create to hold off the occasional weird urge to sign up on a dating app? Is it just a matter of self-discipline? if so, I’ll muster up more willpower… sex signifies something much deeper to me… I want to reserve it for deep love shared in a committed relationship… I have been doing ministry for more than twenty-five years and was considering taking the next step up when she died. Remarrying or cohabitating means giving up the ministry”–

– I thought you may be interested in the little research I did this morning on the topic of celibacy in the religious context:

From bbc. com/is it even possible to live a celibate life?: “After another sex scandal involving a senior member of the Catholic Church, questions are again being asked about celibacy. Is it realistic for someone to permanently go without sex?… To the purists, celibacy – derived from the Latin for unmarried – means a permanent state of being without sex… ‘True’ celibacy means a life without both sex and a spouse or partner. Of course, there are many who give it a looser definition…
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10″>”Catholic priests are all men and while there are celibate women – typically nuns – much of the debate tends to focus on male celibacy. Taken in its strictest definition, there is a question mark over whether celibacy is possible. Men are driven by testosterone to want sex, says John Wass, Professor of Endocrinology at Oxford University. Women are driven to a lesser degree by a mixture of testosterone and oestrogen, he explains. ‘I’d regard celibacy as a totally abnormal state.’…</p>
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10”>”Jimmy O’Brien, who left the priesthood to start a family remembers how difficult it could be for young men. ‘You have to fight the urges. For a lot of people it can be a daily battle, others are not so affected.'</p>
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10″>”The power of the mind through exercises like meditation can banish physical cravings, argues Vishvapani, a Buddhist…’There’s no doubt in my mind that some people are able to practice it quite happily. It may sometimes be a bit of a struggle. But the idea that biologically you can’t – that’s false.'</p>
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10″>”Father Stephen Wang, dean of studies at Allen Hall Seminary, says it is a sacrifice that many priests manage. ‘It’s possible when people have an inner maturity and the faith and support structures are in place.’ For him it is no different to the challenge of a husband trying to be faithful to his wife. There is no celibacy get-out in the form of masturbation, says Wang. ‘For every Christian, masturbation, sex before marriage and sex outside marriage are wrong and something you shouldn’t be doing…</p>
“Wang argues that people misunderstand celibacy. It ensures a unique relationship with God and one’s parishioners, he says. ‘It’s not about repression. It’s about learning to love in a certain way.‘ It’s not just priests who are called by the church to be celibate, it’s everyone outside wedlock, he argues. He rejects the link, commonly made in the media, between celibacy and scandal. ‘It’s not true to say that celibacy leads to sexual dysfunction or abuse. Unfortunately sexual scandals are occurring across society in various organisations, and feature married men not just celibate people.”
<p class=”ssrcss-1q0x1qg-Paragraph e1jhz7w10″>-end of my little research. Is there anything about the above that may be helpful to you, omyk?</p>
anita

Too much emotion, I suppose. As strange as it may sound to you: I will miss you!