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Alessa

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  • #452952
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Everyone

    Can we please move this to another thread. There is a setting where the owner of the thread gets emailed the replies. 🩵

    Thanks 🙏

    #452930
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Aleah

    I’m so glad that you managed to work through these difficulties and get to a place where you are confident in your self-worth! Congratulations.🩵

    You offer a lot of insight and good advice! I’m sure that you’ll shine a light and give hope to many others. 🩵

    #452888
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Roberta

    Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed the video.

    It’s a good reminder to be mindful of our perspective, the choices we make and how these factors affect our experiences. 🩵

    This is a link to the Daoist book which the story I shared on Peter’s thread was from.

    https://archive.org/details/book-of-master-lie-lieh-tzu-thomas-cleary/page/n43/mode/1up

    #452913
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Tommy

    Very true! It is important for me to work on that. 🩵

    Not at all. You made me smile. I appreciate when people are frank with their thoughts. It takes the guess work out of it. 😄

    Possibly they felt because he had bothered to teach it at all, it had merit? Perhaps for a monk the hardest attachment to overcome might be Buddhas own words? 🩵

    #452911
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi James

    I just think faith is something that unfolds over time. Like anything else, children don’t have the maturity to understand it yet. We can teach them the rules and hope that it will sink in, in time. 🩵

    Yes, I understand and believe that. But it isn’t comforting to me. I guess because my life was so unstable when I was young. 🩵

    You underestimate my attachment to trees. 😉

    Funnily enough, this is me “better”. I know I have more work to do. I am of the world though, I don’t seek perfection. I will try my best, take the lessons as they come and try to take care of my family, as much as anyone can. 🩵

    I know my son is happy. That is undeniable, his laughter is infectious. 🩵

    #452910
    Alessa
    Participant

    Dear Anita

    Wow actively silenced around others. I’m so sorry. There are no words to describe the enforced cruelty you endured. 🤍

    I’m so glad that you managed to overcome this enforced silence your mother imposed. It truly shows your strength and commitment to healing from your trauma. Learning to trust people after all of this is entirely down to your good nature and hard work. I say hard work, because it must not have been an easy journey. 🤍

    Please feel free to express anything! And of course you are welcome to write in my threads too. 🤍

    Thank you for your kindness! It means a lot. I really do try my best. 🤍

    #452909
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Peter and Everyone

    I was thinking on the story and used Gemini to help me to write about the themes. I think this story exemplifies various aspects of Daoism. I hope you find it as interesting as I do. 🩵

    Detailed Analysis of Major Themes in the Shang Qiukai Story
    1. The Theme of Spiritual and Psychological Mastery

    This is the core philosophical theme derived from Daoist thought, centered on the power of the unified mind.

    The Supremacy of Sincerity (Chéng): The story argues that the most potent force in the universe is unqualified sincerity. Shang Qiukai’s success stemmed from his ability to achieve a state of absolute concentration where the mind was not split by fear, doubt, or greed. This concentration was so perfect it made him immune to the conditioned laws of the physical world (fire, gravity).

    Effort Meets Grace: The beggar’s life-threatening risks (going “out on a limb”) were the crucible that forged this sincerity. The universe only intervenes when the individual is willing to sacrifice everything, suggesting that grace (or reward) meets courage at the point of ultimate commitment.

    Accidental Mastery: The beggar did not train for this power; he accidentally achieved the mental state of the Daoist “True Man” by simply trying to survive the aristocratic game. His profound desperation served as a shortcut to spiritual non-attachment.

    2. The Theme of Social and Karmic Justice

    This theme addresses the moral imbalance of the world and its ultimate reversal by universal law (Karma/Fate).

    The Pitfalls of Humanity (The Aristocrats): The aristocrats represent the spiritual and moral vices and delusions that arise from power and wealth (malice, cruelty, greed, calculation). They tried to inflict suffering but were ultimately undone by their own moral corruption.

    The Karmic Inversion: The universe actively corrects the moral imbalance. The aristocrats were punished not by physical harm, but by humiliation, dependence, and fear—a consequence directly proportional to their malicious intent.

    The Beggar as a Force of Nature: The beggar’s morality (non-malice and sincerity) and his poverty (his complete disposability) combined to make him a Force of Nature that defied the rules of the aristocrats’ world. The universe favored his essential goodness over their active vice.

    3. The Theme of Moral Efficacy Despite Ignorance (The Flawed Foundation)

    This crucial theme, hinted at by philosophical commentary (like that of Confucius), provides the final ethical critique.

    Ignorance as the Catalyst: The beggar’s power was rooted in his ignorance of the moral and factual truth: he believed a lie about the reward and the noble’s power. His unwavering trust was born from this lack of wisdom.

    The Unstable Victory: This means the beggar’s success, while miraculous, was fundamentally unstable and unwise. True, enduring virtue (Zhi) requires conscious knowledge and ethical discernment, not blind faith in deceit.

    The Confucian Critique: The final commentary highlights that true moral power must be based on a foundation of conscious virtue and knowledge of right and wrong, rather than mere desperation and accidental single-mindedness achieved through a corrupt means.

    4. The Theme of The Psychology of Survival and Class

    This theme grounds the philosophy in the harsh reality of social stratification and the mindset of the poor.

    The Catalyst of Deprivation: The beggar’s chronic hunger and cold were the engine of his desperation, eliminating his rational fear and creating the psychological necessity for his absolute commitment.

    Normalization of Abuse: His life of low status and normalized abuse made him compliant and willing to accept the extreme risks, setting the stage for his miraculous effort.

    Security as the True Reward: The reward of “meat and silk” was the perfect symbolic negation of his initial suffering. This fulfillment of basic needs is seen as the necessary step that opens the mind to spiritual practice, transforming a desperate man into a secure individual.

    #452895
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Roberta

    I left a message, it’s awaiting moderation because there was a link in it.

    I forgot to add because I just came back from a walk. I’m sorry to hear that your father was/is in hospital. Do you think he will be coming out again? Or is it long term at this point? 🩵

    Sorry for bringing it up if you don’t want to talk about it. 🩵

    #452893
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Tommy

    Fair enough! That is more than most do. 🩵

    I don’t mind believing, but I don’t like to put labels on it. 😊

    I like stories too. Hmm well, it would seem to me that not helping is a bigger problem than touching. But of course it is still important to be mindful of rules.

    It reminds me of before a Buddha passed away, he told the monks that they didn’t have to follow the lesser rules all the time because they were not as serious. But the monks decided to follow them anyway out of respect for his teachings. 🩵

    I don’t know if you would agree with what came to mind for me?

    It is okay! I was curious too. Nothing wrong with being different. 🩵

    #452857
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Peter

    Thank you for this lovely thread. 🩵

    I hope it’s okay if I share a story from a Daoist text. It is one of my favourites and came to mind reading your thread. It took me a while to find it. 🩵

    There was a man of the Fan clan named Zihua who supported so many private mercenaries that the whole country submitted to him. He was a favorite of the ruler of Jin, and his status was higher than the top ministers of state even though he held no office. Anyone he regarded specially would be given a title by the state of Jin; anyone he particularly disdained would be banished by the state of Jin. Those who flocked to his mansion were as numerous as attendees at court.

    Zihua had his mercenaries attack each other in battles of wits and strive to overcome each other in contests of strength. Even if they were wounded right before his eyes, he didn’t care. They sported like this all day and night, to the point where it had almost become a custom of the country.

    Hesheng and Zibo were top henchmen of the Fan clan. Going on a trip, they passed through a remote area where they lodged at the house of a farmer, Shang Qiukai. During the night, Hesheng and Zibo were talking about the prestige and influence of Zihua, who could cause the thriving to perish and the lost to survive, impoverish the rich and enrich the poor.

    Now Shang Qiukai, who had all along suffered hunger and cold, overhead this. Inspired, he borrowed some provisions, loaded them in a
    basket, and went to the estate of Zihua.

    Zihua’s hangers-on were all hereditary aristocrats; they dressed in silk, rode in fancy chariots, swaggered around gazing into the distance. When they saw how old and decrepit Shang Qiukai was, his face burnt black and his clothes unkempt, they all looked down on him. They treated him with contempt, playing tricks on him, knocking and shoving him around, doing as they pleased.

    Through all this, Shang Qiukai never showed any sign of anger. Eventually the hangers-on ran out of tricks and got tired of making fun of him. Finally they took him up in a high tower, where someone claimed that anyone who jumped off would get a reward of a hundred pieces of gold. They all scrambled as if to respond, so Shang Qiukai thought it was true and jumped before anyone else could. Like a bird in flight, he floated to the ground, with no injury to skin and bones.

    The Fan clan’s gang thought this was accidental, and didn’t make much of it. In the same vein, they pointed out a wild river bend and said, “There’s a valuable pearl down there; if you can swim, you can get it.” Going along once again, Shang Qiukai plunged into the rapids. When he emerged, he actually had found a pearl down there. Now the gang began to wonder. For the first time Zihua admitted him to the ranks of those who ate
    meat and wore silk.

    Before long, a fire broke out in the Fan family storehouse. Zihua declared, “Anyone who can go into the fire and get the silks out will be rewarded according to how much he retrieves.” Shang Qiukai went in calmly, going back and forth in and out of the fire without getting sooty or being burned. The Fan clan gang thought he must be a master of the Tao, so they made a collective apology: “We played tricks on you, not knowing you were a master of the Tao; we abused you, not knowing you were a spiritual person. You must think us fools! You must think us deaf and blind! May we ask, what is your Way?”

    Shang Qiukai said, “I have no Way. I don’t even know my own mind. Even so, there is something to this. I’ll try to tell you what it is.
    “Earlier two of your men lodged at my house, and I heard them praising the influence of the Fan clan, which could cause the thriving to perish or the lost to survive, impoverish the rich or enrich the poor. I took this to be true without a second thought, so I came regardless of the distance. Then when I got here, I thought everything your gang said was true, and my only fear was not to be able to take it seriously enough to carry it out successfully—I didn’t know what my physical body was doing, or where profit or harm were—I was completely single-minded. Things did not prove otherwise, as you can see; but now that I know your gang was fooling me, I’m suspicious within and on guard without; it’s a lucky thing, in retrospect, I wasn’t burned or drowned. I’m feverish with shock, shivering with fear! How could I get close to water or fire again?”

    After this, whenever members of the Fan clan’s gang encountered beggars or horse doctors on the road, they didn’t dare abuse them; they’d always get down out of their chariots and salute them.

    Zaiwo heard about this and told Confucius. Confucius said, “Didn’t you know? When people are completely sincere, that can affect things. It can move heaven and earth, influence ghosts and spirits, grant freedom in all ways, with no opposition, not just walking on dangerous precipices or plunging into water and fire. Shang Qiukai believed in falsehoods, and even then things did not betray him—how about if other and self are both truthful! Take note of this!”

    #452847
    Alessa
    Participant

    I would say that positive memories don’t come to me easily. It’s something that have been working on for a while. It is easy to focus on the negative, but it takes work to refocus.

    It makes sense that the nicer memories where when your mother was distracted. It is a shame when there is so much pain and so little of anything else in a child’s life. No one should live like that. 🩵

    I would argue that there are plenty of signs of child abuse beyond the obvious broken bones. It really depends on training. In the past, there was not a lot of training. 🩵

    For example, my doctor should have spotted signs of severe child abuse. But back then they didn’t care about these things.

    Migraines, bladder trouble, vomiting, constipation, fainting. These are signs of extreme levels of stress.

    I disagree with putting all of the responsibility on children to report severe abuse. It is common for parents to the threaten children to not speak out. Unless they trust that someone can or will actually going to do something about it, they keep quiet for their own safety. 🩵

    You could argue that being withdrawn and shy itself needs investigating because it could be a mental health issue. These things require treatment, no matter the cause of you ask me. 🩵

    #452841
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Peter

    Thank you! That was very comforting and beautifully written as always. 🩵

    I feel better about it all now. There are no answers, sometimes you just have to experience life. Worry, love, joy, pain and all! One day at a time. 🩵

    Thanks again everyone! 🩵

    #452839
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi James

    I appreciate your opinion, it actually helped albeit perhaps not in the way that was intended. 🩵

    I guess as a child who was brought up to be very religious and experienced severe abuse, I can say that it didn’t help me at the time. It made me hate God for a long time because I prayed for help and none came. 🩵

    Religion I think instilled good values and taught me to be polite. As I got older I was able to reconnect with the spiritual side of things.

    I guess it is a comfort to know that there are no answers for difficulties such as these and that is okay. At least I’m not alone in not knowing. 🩵

    I do find it helps when people are matter of fact, so I appreciate your candour. 🩵

    #452837
    Alessa
    Participant

    I’m thinking about you and your health issues Tee. I don’t want to cause you pain by replying. Please take care of yourself and wait for a less painful time before replying. I am not in a hurry. I value your replies, but your wellbeing is more important to me. 🩵

    No doubt I still make mistakes Tee, even when I try not to. I’m lucky in that I have never shouted at my son. It seems like most parents do. The idea makes me feel very uncomfortable.

    Yes, it’s the authoritative parenting style that is recommended these days. It is what I try to follow.

    Thanks so much Tee! 🩵

    It wasn’t just post partum depression. I also developed post partum ocd. There is a 1-2% chance of that. Intrusive thoughts of harming your child. It was tied to my trauma. I was having PTSD episodes when he cried and he would cry for 4 hours in the evenings when he was young. I was hit whenever I cried. I blamed myself for the thoughts happening for a long time until I realized what the cause was. I’ve always had this recording of my trauma in my head that is like my mother. Before having a child it would try to get me to hurt myself when I was particularly vulnerable. After having a baby it became fixated on my son. I was lucky I’d had those previous experiences during vulnerable times, when it initially started I felt compelled to act on self-harm to simply get the intense suicidal thoughts to stop. Fortunately, then I had sought treatment and I learned how to control the thoughts and not act on them. So by the time I had a child I had some strong skills for coping with challenging mental health issues.

    There are some other post partum specific mental health issues too, post partum psychosis is a very dangerous one. If these conditions are not treat, they can get worse and last for years.

    My mother always said that something changed in her after she had children. Perhaps she might have had some kind of postpartum mental health issue that was untreat.

    I guess I just think it must be hard for parents with severe mental health issues, because there was not a lot of help for a long time even for the people who did try to get help. There is a social stigma around getting help too, as well as financial barriers. Even today, help varies by country and in mine to receive it free means divulging the extent of symptoms and trauma. Some people would be worried about being institutionalised or having their kids taken away. These are legitimate outcomes. Even for me, someone who knows how to talk about mental health in a calm way. It wasn’t a pleasant situation to be in and I was judged by the people who were supposed to be helping.

    I would argue that for parents who are so abusive, yet they don’t admit it. There is an element of delusion there. How can someone who isn’t even present with reality ask for help?

    Even now, I got treat pretty badly for getting help as a parent. And it took a long time to arrange the appropriate care. I even started trying to arrange it as soon as I was pregnant because that is what my old trauma therapist recommended. It was a fight to get help because a lot of resources are not equipped to deal with complex mental health issues. 🩵🩵🩵

    #452826
    Alessa
    Participant

    Oh I forgot to ask, would you like me to start my messages with dear? I don’t usually, but I’m also not attached to Hi, it’s purely just habit. 🤍

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 668 total)