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shinnen
ParticipantHi,
Hi all,
For what it’s worth; my initial training in Buddhism was from Theravadin monks, who warned against formulating ideas about what enlightenment is. Their reasoning was that when one decides what they’re seeking, they limit the scope of their search to certain directions, which may lead them to a dead end. Much of the literature suggests that enlightenment is not something to be found outside of oneself, but something lying within, dormant, or buried under our misunderstandings; that we must reveal in order to see through our illusions. How that is done is the subject of much discussion; but it is up to us to find a suitable path. To me, this highlights one of the strengths and difficulties of the Buddhist way; it does not prescribe a pre-ordained way of doing this, as many religions do; there’s no formuala set out for the seeker to follow. This is the difficult part, one must figure it out for oneself. I suspect that there are many paths to enlightenment depending on the individual, and that many ways/religions/philosophies will take one there; but I don’t really know.
…. johnshinnen
ParticipantHi Anita,
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my concerns. It’s always interesting to see how someone interprets one’s message.
It’s very difficult to convey the complexity of one beliefs and understanding, in particular how they were arrived at,
without a face to face back and forth; and even then we tend to interpret what others say, based on our own assumptions.
However, I will try.
I base most of my understanding on two sources, reason (as you observed) and insight/inspiration, of which I
have had many. These things come right out of the blue at times, completely unconnected to what I’m thinking about. The most
all consuming one though, was my discovery that I am, and have always been, a Buddhist. (I was a Catholic at the time.)
I know it sounds ridiculous; but that’s what overcame me, 33 years ago, as I was walking down the street.
I have had many many of these moments over the years, about all sorts of subjects. None, however, was as all consuming as that one.
Some seem childishly simple, like the realization that …… The only truth is ‘What is.’ I came to this conclusion after many years
struggling with the question ‘What is truth?’ Others have had more to do with Buddhism:
What is the Buddha saying with the mudra signifying Wisdom and Compassion, or what is the koan of finger pointing at moon telling us.
The list is long. Yes, I like to be able to justify to myself what I believe, with reason;
but every so often understanding comes from …. who knows where. Let’s face it, if we didn’t believe many many thing, we wouldn’t be
able to function at all, we’d be nervous wrecks. Would I drive my car if I didn’t believe I would arrive at my destination …… probably not.
You raise many points of view, which I don’t presently embrace; but maybe, some day I’ll see the light and say, “You know what Anita, you
were right about that.”
… johnshinnen
ParticipantHi Chris. Thanks for your thoughts …… john
shinnen
ParticipantHi Helcat
I have to apologize for not answering your request about sharing my experiences in discovering buddhism. I have only ever shared this with one other person, who is very close to me; and to explore my deep person feeling on an open forum, would be very uncomfortable. Please forgive me; it has nothing to do with you or anyone else here.
…… johnshinnen
ParticipantHi Helcat,
Oh yes, I’m very aware of the pitfalls of language. It’s especially imperfect at defining emotions,
which people all too often attempt. I see language as, for the most part, an intellectual tool and is very poor at accurately
conveying feelings. Every statement/question has a premise, whether or not the speaker is aware of what it is.
I love to watch the manipulators: politicians, advertisers, etc., to see how they craft their message; although, unfortunately
these days the message is mostly contained in visuals, intended to appeal to one’s self image.
But I’m sure that you’re aware of all this, have been an English teacher.
…… john
shinnen
ParticipantHi Helcat,
I discovered Buddhism 33 years ago. It was a life altering experience. I don’t believe or disbelieve in a soul. The same goes for God. They, along with most concept, belong to the myriad of things I have no reason to believe, or not believe. Having said that, I am ‘very’ suspicious of my ego, which I suspect has a vested interest in telling me how unique, different, special, etc. I am. As humans, the primary way we evaluate the world, what we find threatening, good, bad, right, wrong, evil, true, fearful, the list is endless, is by comparison. It’s a survival mechanism, and as such is always skewed toward our self interest …. ego, as you say. I see no reason to believe that I’m special or unique; different …. sure, but, so is everything else.
…… john
shinnen
ParticipantHi again,
Yes, it took me some time to find a ‘free’ version.
I’m familiar with the zen ‘slap’, as you call it. When I first became interested in buddhism I went
to a zen temple, where the sensei would randomly slap us with a stick. You never knew when you were
going to get it. For a beginning westerner zen was a little hard to digest. However, since then I’ve come to see it differently.
…… john
shinnen
ParticipantHi Peter,
I found this book, Hara, the Vital Centre of Man, on the net. It’s here https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Hara.pdf
if anyone is interested. I’ve read a few books, that touch on the subject: Zen and the Ways, Zen Training, the Hagakura, A Second Zen Reader, but they’re all either vague, or difficult to follow. Hopefully I’ll be able to follow this one.
THANKS for this. ….. john
shinnen
ParticipantHi Hellcat,
Yes, there’s that to it.
….. john
shinnen
ParticipantHi Helcat,
Well, I’m very fortunate to be married to an excellent cook, who makes her own bread, with the minimum of salt, to keep my blood pressure under control; so I imagine that the old ways of perserving food (with salt) would probably have killed me before now. So, if I’m not good to her, I will probably notice a marked increase in the saltiness of my food ;- )
……. john
shinnen
ParticipantHi Roberta,
Same here, only in my case it was Judo, which resulted in life long devotion to Buddhism.
…. john
shinnen
ParticipantHi all,
I’ m not quite sure where this belongs, spirituality or relaxation; but I ran across this site
about a month ago, “Hara – Beyond the Concpt” by Tomas Nellisen and found it very intersting;
both from the perspective of zen, and deep relaxation.
The majourity of the page talks about how, for many moderners, the focus of one’s center has shifted from their hara to their brain, which he feels is counterproductive. At the bottom of the page is a short description of a method aimed at correcting this problem by shifting one’s focus back to the hara, where it should be. I have performed this ‘exercise’ for about a month now, and find it to be extremely calming, and an excellent segue into meditation. As regards it’s spiritual effectiveness, i.e. shifting my focus from brain to hara, only time will tell.
Do have a look at the page, as it contains a more comprehensive description than I’m providing. You can find it here
https://www.tomasnelissen.com/downloads/TOMAS%20NELISSEN%20-%20HARA%20BEYOND%20THE%20CONCEPT.pdf
……. john
shinnen
ParticipantHi Collie,
I was reading a survey book on the beliefs of world religions; and was struck by the fact that this man, the buddha, who lived 2500 years ago, knew me better than I know myself. I broke down in tears. That was 32 years ago. Buddhism is my rudder and compass. It does not tell me how to live my life, but how to evaluaton my thoughts and actions. I think that one should understand (live by) one’s beliefs; and never adopt anything anyone says unless they are convinced of it’s usefulness or truth. Aha, identity, something I try not to subscribe to. If certain practices work for you, bring you understanding or solace, they’re work exploring. Politics and the pandemic have little influence on my life, so can’t really comment on them. I have NO idea what being a buddhist was like during the buddha’s life. For me, following the path it’s not a choice, I could not do otherwise, doesn’t matter what happens to me. I think that anicca is the mark of existence which pretty much describes the human condition, why we suffer, etc. It is the way of all things. I hope this helps.
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