@Dannydan

How interesting – I’m really surprised to read with regular proximity, all of your single male friends have never made a move on you.

Have you ever been curious enough to ask why?

Well, one guy actually did. As I look in retrospect, I think he did make a move on me. I remember him inviting me to lunch to celebrate the end of our lengthy project together. I never paid attention to it in the past, but now I think that it was his attempt at trying to gauge how much he was attracted to me and I to him. He is a great guy, we share a lot in common (upbringing, tastes, always something to talk about), but I have never been attracted to him physically. One year later or so, he started courting my other colleague, very similar to me in physique and age, and they married. He clearly loves her very much, was never daunted by her having two kids from her previous marriage (I met her ex-husband by accident, I am actually afraid that she’d dumped him for this friend of mind) or by her being religious whereas he (and I) are closer to being atheists. This guy is the guy I would go to if I needed advice on anything in life – from taxes to investments to buying a computer. I was never jealous.

We still work together – all the three of us – and they would invite me over for things like Death over Dinner.

Another good friend of mine is single and is a fervent Christian who observes all the rules such as fasting. He never fails to wish me all the best in conjunction with my Saint’s day, always brings me a souvenir from his frequent trips, sometimes invites me for lunch or dinner. He is someone who would always have my back, but alas, even though I like him a lot, I still haven’t been able to fall in love with him despite us having known each other for six years now. And I don’t think him being so religious is the main problem. I care deeply for him as I would for a brother, but not more than that. Funny that I think that his sentiment matches mine. We would make a great marriage of conscious commitment(if it were not for his religious beliefs and lack of mine) and intellectual and emotional compatibility, but not a great marriage of love. I can’t imagine being intimate with him, but at least I could hold hands with him.

As for the others, two thirds of them were either married or actively dating their future wives when we met. As for the remaining ones (and some from the married category), I have a vague feeling that they see me as someone out of their league. I was born and raised in the capital, attended a more reputed university, have a bigger salary. I may be imagining, but I even feel something with a tinge of pity on their part towards me. You know, like anybody would love to have, say, a race horse. But does one have the means for caring for one? No, not really. So one can’t help looking at the horse, loving the view, but one passes by because one wouldn’t be able to provide for the race horse’s life the way it should be cared for. Something like this, but I am not really referring to the material part, more to the intellectual. Something like, “So much to offer, but it is beyond us.”

Interesting that my level of respect, care and trust for these male friends of mine seems to be at about the same level for all of them, with no distinction.

You mentioned you are a serious monogamous type and already in love before the first date or feel nothing – I’m curious to know how that is possible if you’ve never been able to create something out of a friendship? Would you say it’s more infatuation rather than love?

I don’t know. I need to feel the butterflies. Even if they disappear later, I can build on the memory of the feeling (like I did with A), but if there are no butterflies in the first place (or just a thought crossing my mind – “hmm, boyfriend material”, I can’t imagine becoming physical with the guy (the case of the colleague/friend above).

I’ve mentioned before I fear your all or nothing mentality is detrimental in your relationships.

Looking for someone who meets your needs doesn’t necessarily mean you dump all your crap on them. Each one of us has ups and downs so it is comforting to have a person in your corner who is your anchor.

But it requires a fine balance, you have to give in return. If there’s a fair exchange then it will make your partner feel secure and attraction.

If you constantly dump, then your partner will no doubt feel ‘overwhelmed’ or ‘parental’ or like a ‘therapist’.

So if you can not offer anything to form a healthy relationship then yes, fix your own crap first! I did before reuniting with ‘B’.

I am afraid those ‘butterflies’ or the ‘spark’ are the ignition point. Until I feel that – yes, all or nothing. And I have no idea how to bypass it. I really can’t ignore their presence or absence, just physically can’t. But once it is there, I am doing the best I can for the union to be balanced and fair. Maybe even forgive and gloss over much more than I should.

I think it would be fair to say that no matter your B’s virtues, if it hadn’t been for the chemistry, you wouldn’t have started to think about her again. In the same vein, if you could (I know it is superdifficult at the stage you are in right now – in love and all) imagine that there is somebody else out there for you, even more compatible with you than B, you wouldn’t go for it, because of how good you “feel” with B. Isn’t it so?

With your B, clearly for such in depth analysis there is something unfinished. That could be because you’re valuing yourself based on how others value you. If B hasn’t contacted you, wanting to get back together, then you feel unwanted and get that awful feeling about yourself. It may have absolutely nothing to do with you though too and you simply feel purely your story with him is incomplete.

Well, I am a firm believer in that no matter how good / intelligent / virtuous and so one and so forth one is, if there is no chemistry, things won’t fly. Since I’ve met so many decent guys for whom I couldn’t ever feel a thing, I am totally okay with men not feeling anything for me even though I am such and such.

But given that it seems that I am by nature so selective and of such a monogamous disposition, I wouldn’t mind increasing the pool so to speak, simply to improve my chances of stumbling upon somebody whom I like and who likes me too.

That said, when there has clearly been a strong mutual attraction, chemistry (like with the guy I met when travelling and with B), and when it amounts to nothing, it just leaves me with a big question mark. With the ‘guy in-between’ – what was the point of spending time wooing me, organising that magic date day and night (knowing that I would be leaving his city the next morning), taking my goodnight (and no sex) very well? With B – how could all that communication and chemistry not have resulted in something more definite that “Are you mine?” and “Ugh, sorry.”

In short, B made me seriously question my gut feeling. When I had the same feeling before, it would mean that the man is in love and romance awaits! After him, I don’t know if I can trust my gut feeling any more!

Considering the amount of time you spend with him on your mind, no matter how much you analyse and try to gain meaning it will not help, further questions will continue to arise as you’re unable to fill in the blanks.

Sammy is saying the very same thing.

My honest advice is you confront it head on and ask him for a 1 to 1 meet and say how you feel. The longer you leave it the more time wasted, you need clarity. Other than ego is there anything holding you back?

It is not so much ego as hope (well, not really) – me giving him a chance to reach out to me first.

But even that is not the most important thing here. I am listing a few considerations here in no particular order.

It is more like after reading dozens of stories here on TinyBuddha and elsewhere on divorced men, I really want one year to have passed after the divorce stamp. No matter for how long he had considered himself to be separated. Maybe even more so given his going back and forth to his wife.

Also, one more year will mean that his daughter, and he is very attached to her, will be even more grown-up and more independent and less reliant on her father. Especially when getting together with friends and entertainment opportunities elsewhere are limited because of the pandemic.

It will also mean that his ex-wife’s wounds would have healed at least a little bit. I would really hate her to tell her girlfriends, “Just look at B – hardly had a year passed from our divorce when he is already dating somebody.”

Of course, I am running ahead, he may not even respond to my request to meet. Nor am I proposing that he date me (I already confessed my interest soon to be four years ago). But if I entertain some vague hope for him to want to be in a relationship with me, I do want him to be in the best state of mind possible for it, ready and all. Not like he cut me off that night we met, “I don’t want to get married.”

I agree that he may have already found somebody new. I haven’t looked up his Twitter, as promised, but he doesn’t necessarily post everything in his personal life there anyway. Even if he does between now and the autumn, it is no guarantee that the relationship will survive anyway. Isn’t timing everything? But then again, there is no telling when the “sweet spot” is.

So ultimately it doesn’t matter when the time is best – now or in the autumn.

There are a couple of more notches. By the time the autumn arrives, I will have read a significant portion of books and watched a few films I have wanted to read and watch for a long time. It has been like a weight on my conscience.

I have also planned a holiday (as much as one can possibly ‘plan’ something in the times of COVID) with a route that would take me to the place where he studied and I would also be coming home from the city from which A and I came home from our very last trip together. I didn’t specifically plan it that way, my route just naturally worked out like that. Kind of a logical conclusion, drawing the final line.

Of course, the two things above (books & films and the trip) can be easily adjusted. I can read the same books and watch the same films when in a relationship and nothing prevents him from coming with me or me going alone on the trip whilst in a relationship. Danny, I am not fantasising – I am merely stating this as a possibility, I am not daydreaming nor is my imagination painting any details of how it might pan out were he in my life for real. I am not allowing myself to build on developing details and adding colours to the idea. Really. Just casually stating.

Also, in the autumn, we may not have masks any more. Here, if he wanted, we could go for a walk with no masks on, but he could just as well want to keep his on, and then I wouldn’t be able to read his face and expression.

On the flip side, there is less risk of him being recognised if we meet and he has a mask on, he has sometimes been in the past. The last thing I want is gossip that there is something between him and me…

I don’t want him to think that I have been stalking him either. Even though this is exactly what I had been doing until I cut that Twitter habit of mine.

Oh, and I missed my hairdresser’s appointment, so my roots are already showing. I wouldn’t want him to see me for the first time in four-and-a-half years like this.

When we really want and believe in something we muster the courage to overcome the fear. Fortune favours the brave.

I am a little afraid, I acknowledge. I might add there is also an ingredient of not wanting to let go of the hope. On the other hand, stupid me could still cling to hope even if he said no a thousand times. I am not dwelling on this. Just stating as an option, like above.

Just a point I’ve recalled, us men can say stupid things at times especially when we have missed someone, when I met B to clear the air, I also ended up uttering I thought you would have contacted me first, needless to say it didn’t go down too well either.

This would be too good to be true. Don’t even want to recall all the similar occurrences in books and films. Novels were written for a reason and the same is true for films, especially romantic ones.

There’s an element of self doubt and self esteem issue underlying all this but that’s something only you can fix within. No matter how much someone else tries to reassure you,until you accept it. Words will feel hollow.

I suppose the main thing here is being perplexed as to whether I can trust my perceptions of people any more. It feels as if if I could be so mistaken about B, how can I trust my own judgement about anything at all and anybody else in my life???

So when is your wedding?

I tried to find how long you have been dating B overall and failed. Don’t you have a tinge of doubt that it might be too early to marry? Just curious. Men are usually the last ones whose minds are crossed by the idea of official marriage, lol 😊