Dear Seaturtle:

I didn’t get your update yet.  I will reply to your yesterday’s posts first:

“I am recently, ever since you have started to see a more rounded image of N, confused about whether or not he is intentionally being controlling or gaslighting and if we just have different views that lead to this dynamic”-

– (1) Here is from How to Successfully Handle Gaslightgers & Stop Psychological Bullying. (nipreston. com): “In its milder forms, gaslighting creates a subtle but inequitable power dynamic in a relationship, where the gaslightee is subjected to the gaslighter’s unreasonable, rather than fact-based scrutiny, judgment, and/or micro-aggression”.

The gaslighting my mother employed was severe and overt and it included macro-aggression. On the other hand, N’s gaslighting is covert, milder, involving micro-aggression, such as when he accused you in the grocery store of having cash you were.. not supposed to have.

(2) About you being “confused about whether or not (N) is intentionally being controlling or gaslighting“, from the book: “It should be noted that not all gaslighters are intentionally malicious, or conscious of their harmful conduct… They may not be fully cognizant of the harmfulness (and hurtfulness) of their word and actions, and their painful impact on others. Other gaslighters, however, are perfectly aware of their coercive tactics, as they deliberately seek to establish power and imbalance over other people’s lives”.

“Yes I suggested (couples therapy) back when we were living together, on multiple occasions and every time his response is ‘I am not going to talk to someone who doesn’t know me at all for advice.’“- yes, I remember now, you shared this before. His response suggests to me that he doesn’t WANT to be known (by someone who might get it right about who he is) because then he’d lose his power advantage.

“Mostly I have gotten the Teflon impression. I don’t think he is trying to control my mind… I am confused again, I really am not sure if it is manipulation or Teflon, he genuinely does not let it bother him”- could be both: Teflon and SUBTLE manipulation/ gaslighting… He is perhaps gaslighting himself and gaslighting you at the same time.

I wrote to you: “something IS wrong but N says nothing is wrong, something must be wrong with Seaturtle’s perception then.. her brain must not perceive/ process information correctly.”, and your response:  “Yes, this is exactly what happens in my head and it is very confusing“.

I quoted from the article on gaslighting:  “When the deception of the person who is engaging in gaslighting is questioned, they often react by dismissing the accusation as a delusion, an emotional reaction, or an overreaction—thus conditioning the person to internalize those assessments”. Your response: “F did this for sure. As far as N, I am not 100% He has definitely dismissed accusations as delusional, but are they? Are they projections of F onto him? It is very hard for me to label N as gaslighting, and I am not sure why, I feel defensive of him. I feel guilt for doubting him behind his back“.

I wrote to you about N: “his fear of being controlled motivates him to control“, an your response: “Right, but does he know this?”. Let’s say he doesn’t know it: if you tell him (and make it therefore known to him), will he change?

If he resists your input, calling it wrong.. then he is closed to self reflection and positive change.

“So my dad 100% is this way, trying to be tall by cutting of the heads of others, no doubt he is this way“- F might be an overt, severe type of gaslighter while N may be a covert, milder type of gaslighter.

“N doesn’t do this, I don’t think.. He encouraged me to do the play! He encourages me to paint. He wants me to grow?“- you are not sure about the last one, hence the question mark. What if he encourages you to do what doesn’t bother him but discourages you to think about/ talk about/ do .. what bothers him. No gaslighter criticizes EVERYTHING about their gaslightee.

Back to the book (pdf): “Some gaslighters manipulate the gaslightee with frequent negative hostility, combined with occasional positive bribery…  In a gaslighting relationship, the gaslighter has the power to grant acceptance, approval, respect, safety, and security. He or she also has the power (and often threatens to) take them away. With this tactic, the gaslighter retains power, privilege, and entitlement”.

What if N’s encouragements are .. positive bribery?

“He talks a lot about being mentally resilient in order to achieve peace. He values peace, more than anything. We disagree on how to get it though. He thinks you simply don’t let outside factors bother you => Peace“-

– You, Seaturtle, are an outside force to him and when in conflict.. he teflons you: he doesn’t let you- an outside factor- bother him.

“N brings the people around him up, I think? He encourages his friends and works with others very well. He tends to give more than he receives in his friendships, from my perspective, but he sees their value in a way I don’t”-

– There’s the question mark again. What if N working well with others involves manipulating the people around him successfully. Some manipulation is positive, you know.

“I explained more so about how him being late often is controlling as I am just waiting for him. But he claims this is not planned, and I believe him”- if him being routinely late is unplanned.. why doesn’t he plan to be on time?

“I fell in love with someone who cannot help but to gaslight me? What a tragic love story, to be or not to be”- you need not settle for a life of being gaslit because someone can’t help but to gaslight you. It reminds me of the story of the frog and the scorpion crossing a lake. The frog carried the scorpion on its back crossing the lake, figuring that the scorpion will not bite it, because if it will, the scorpion will drown. But the scorpion bit the frog because.. it couldn’t help but to bite and kill the frog.

“I am so sorry this happened to you, although I know you do not need my sympathy I must give it!”- thank you, Seaturtle.

“I wonder why I was drawn to someone like this, I chose to be with N for so long“- because.. N is such an improvement over F, being the covert, milder form of gaslighter…?

“I am still under a belief that it is fixable and he will stop. I am not sure if this is an illusion“- makes me think of the scorpion and frog story: the frog was under the (deadly) belief and illusion that the scorpion will put a stop or a pause on its inclination to bite for the duration of the swim to safety.

“If I confront him about feeling gaslit when he does not take my worries seriously, he may change that behavior if I tell him I will leave the relationship if it does not stop, which is what I want to do tonight.”- so you want to threaten him (the one who will NOT be controlled by outside factors) to leave him so that he changes his behavior.

I noticed some time ago that you submitted your post but I didn’t read any of it. I will submit this and then read and reply to your post of 53 minutes ago.

anita