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Reply To: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships

HomeForumsRelationshipsTelling the difference between gut and fear in relationshipsReply To: Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships

#428203
seaturtle
Participant

Dear Anita,

“I am saying all this not because I think that you fit the NPD (I really don’t know), or any personality disorder, but just in case you do- just in case you get diagnosed as such by a professional sometimes in the future- I want you to be open to the possibility, for therapeutic purposes.”

  • I do appreciate you bringing this up, it makes me curious, but admittedly makes me fearful that I have more issues that I am unaware of. I have wondered if I have a personality disorder before, but just believe that I feel very in control of what I do and say, and I also stand by most of what I say and do. I feel like I stay aware enough, literally with the intention of staying aligned with who I believe I am, and I wonder, are people with those disorders capable of being authentic?

 

“-your desire to be positively/ admiringly seen as an individual apart from others in a romantic relationship and otherwise is intense.”

It is true, I have an overcompensating impulse to be seen by others and recognized as an individual. I was so unseen growing up, by my dad, but then also in highschool. During early highschool, or even middle school I don’t remember having this intense desire to be seen for my individuality, it developed and became more intense later in highschool, my soccer team literally ignored me in highschool. I told you before, but a recap, they thought I told the principal that they hazed the new freshmen and sophomores (me). When I actually didn’t, the hazing made me nauseous so I went home but I didn’t tell anyone, it was another girl who kept it a secret, the seniors and juniors were suspended from the first 6 games of the season and blaming me, they ignored me at practice for 2 years. That bullying had a huge impact, for one I didn’t know why they were ignoring me, I didn’t find out till my senior year that they thought I did anything. I just thought they didn’t like who I was, so I made an attempt to be as small as possible. Stopped talking, since I’d only be ignored, stopped asking for the ball, stopped basically playing soccer (my first love) and overall just wanted to be like everyone else and didn’t want to be myself, since that clearly was not accepted. I left highschool early to finish my degree and begin college courses, simultaneously, almost completely isolated from highschoolers, and anyone on my soccer team outside of practice and games. Just trying to blend in. Then I went to Argentina and that whole trip made me realize how strong I was, after the impact I took there as well. That is where I had my first out of body, “who am I and why am I here?” literally asking God. Again I felt so alone there, only English speaker aside from 3 translators, I learned spanish and made good friends there but the environment and activities they made us do were very challenging. Not to mention socially, the two translator girls treated me differently then they treated the spanish speakers, spoke to me like I was stupid and also ignored my requests, saying to go with the flow, yet I didn’t know the flow because instructions were told to us in Spanish, any ounce of control I had was taken from me, I was just told what to do and out of my obedient character I just did what I was told not matter how uncomfortable it made me. Unseen.

That was the first time I ever felt I heard God’s voice. I felt so unseen, so misunderstood, and so judged. And I was, I can elaborate on several stories, crying as I called my parents, crying to the sky, that trip was intense. I had nightmares that shadows pinned me to the ground and covered my mouth, taking every possible way to express myself away from me. It was those last 4 weeks of the trip (5 months total) that I literally felt like there must be a God or else I was completely alone, so I talked to the sky and I am telling you, I went from the most afraid, lonely and misunderstood place I have ever been and when I spoke to the sky I suddenly felt hugged, I felt this overwhelming sense of light, comfort and a soundless voice in my head said “It will be ok, I am not alone.” Ever since that moment, I have believed in God, but not in a religious way. I can go on about why not as well but I would be writing a book on here soon hahaha.

All this to say, yes, my craving to be seen is very intense, and I know it is an over compensation, and potency of the craving changes/fluctuates. But In my relationship with N, I was aware that he was not responsible for making me feel THAT seen. Honestly I feel like his lack of seeing me, in a strange way, was attractive to me because of how comforting it was, felt like home.

“– Part of you suspects that these expectations are ridiculous, but this part is not sure (hence the question, right?). Objectively, yes, it is ridiculous to think that N not always putting the toilet seat down means that he doesn’t think about you at all. “

I had to decide for myself what was ridiculous and what wasn’t. The toilet seat bothered me when I would fall into the toilet at night, and even after I told him that happened he didn’t seem to put much effort there, but I got over that one realizing he just forgets like all humans do. But it really bothered me once he came to my apartment and used my roommates bathroom, came out and said “oh wait forgot something” and went and put HER toilet seat down… he was being more considerate to her than me. Also the being late, he was 45 min late to breakfast with my mom and I, when she visited me. 45 min, that is ridiculous of him, but I was so understanding, I really tried my best to stay aware of the difference between too high of expectations, and reasonable standards.

“– this is how I understand this: as a child (not only as a teenager, but before), you felt so ALONE, a stranger in your home, living with strangers, disconnected, a very distressing and reoccurring feeling. Your mother took that feeling away from you when she coddled and overprotected you (words you used someplace in your thread to describe her behavior toward you). She took that feeling away when she did whatever you wanted. Fast forward, you re-experienced the same childhood ALONE/ estranged feeling with N, and you needed him to take this feeling away from you by doing the same as your mother did: everything you want.”

  • I am not saying this is not true but I don’t recall feeling that way, at home. Also that feeling of estrangement doesn’t happen with my other friends, currently I am not able to associate this disconnect with anyone else but N. My other friends, yes I have felt disconnected before, but when I bring it up like “why is it weird right now” they are aware enough to agree and be like idk it is weird tho. When I feel disconnected, my impulse is to just be super honest, to meet at some sort of baseline with the person, and I find that inauthentic people are unable to meet you there, and I don’t think N was very authentic for many reasons. He was not able to have very raw conversations, something I find only two authentic people can have together. He could when we were on vacation sometimes, or out in nature for a couple days, but otherwise he was far away from that raw place that if I tried to be real with him he just blank stared me.

“but you have turned into your father in this way. You took normal behaviors, like a guy not putting the toilet seat down,  as evidence of him not caring for you.”

This is either hard for me to face, or not accurate to me. I was aware, in the moment, that those two things don’t correlate. I could see that assumption trying to come together in my head and I reasoned it out, that is extreme, I would tell myself and move on. That is why a relationship with someone who did not care enough lasted so long, I feel like I may have disregarded too many things out of trying to avoid making correlations that weren’t true, and that is what was the cause of such a tormenting last year. As I came to you here in September, I thought it was all my fault and I was making incorrect correlations, but clearly he was being passive aggressive, so many times I told myself “no, he was probably joking, and I am making assumptions of him not caring about me when it is not true,” just as a victim of gaslighting says to herself. I am open to being wrong about this assessment, but it is just how I feel, and evidence is that I stayed with him that whole last year trying to make myself see that he cared, when I just don’t think he actually cared that much and instead knew how to act like he did.

” Fast forward, you re-experienced the same childhood ALONE/ estranged feeling with N, and you needed him to take this feeling away from you by doing the same as your mother did: everything you want.”

I just don’t think this accidentally happens, that I would think I deserve everything I want, without even knowing it, especially knowing that I did not deserve everything I wanted like a spoiled little girl. I would not want someone to do everything I wanted, that would be such a fake relationship, I witnessed my grandma doing this for my mom and I thought it was gross. I did not/ and do not want to be this way so badly that I don’t think it happened without me knowing it, and if it did I know less about myself then I thought I did.

“– You are someone ALONE (a dark room) who needs to be seen as worthy of connection/ worthy of not being alone (turning on a light). Problem is that you associate the light with everything you want being done by the one who supposedly loves you.. because that’s the kind of love you experienced as a child.”

But I don’t want the love I received as a child, my moms over coddling makes me uncomfortable and my dads lack of it also makes me uncomfortable.  I am alone in a dark room, and something I learned through speaking with you is it is Seaturtle’s job to turn on that light so hatch can see herself. I associate light with seeing that I am an authentic person, a strong and witty/creative person (as my dad said I wasn’t), seen by myself and hopefully by my one life partner, the one person in the world that admires me for me. I just feel like N did not see me very deeply, he saw a square and fell in love with the square and moved on with his life, rather than see I am actually a pantagon, he missed a whole side but he was ok with that and I wasn’t. I just believe my real lifetime partner will see those things, I don’t want them to do everything I want. Infact, if someone sees who I am, I would likely stay with them through them doing many things I don’t like, because of how hard it was to find a man who saw me. Leave the toilet seat up every day, and be late as long as when you do see me, you laugh with me and we find similar things cool and see eachothers taste and respect eacohthers perspectives and goals.

“– Your internal torment is the ALONE, disconnected emotional experience of childhood. An experience you tried to change as a teenager, when living with your father, by hyper vigilantly fulfilling his unrealistic expectations from you. You tried to connect with him in this way, it was the expression of your love for him.. to do all that he wanted.”

Exactly

“He was in a difficult situation with you, wanting to please you on one hand (this is his brand of love: people pleasing, seems to me), passive-aggressively rebelling, on the other, responding to .. your unrealistic expectations in ways that were not emotionally honest. “

Yes exactly. I am sure some of my expectations were unrealistic, but I was open to being told that, when he explained to me that him talking with his roommate after dark, while I slept alone was too much to ask for, I stopped asking for it. I spoke to you, and I took my stuffed animal and pretended it was hatch, saying everything was ok, he loves me and this was not about me at all, I loved me too and that is all that mattered, and I went to sleep. My expectations were unrealistic for him. Expecting him to express why he was passive aggressive, was my expectation but he was incapable.

“overall, did not bring out the best in each other.”

Agreed. I literally told him this two nights before the breakup, at that dinner that I almost ended things but after asking to leave the restaurant, as he typically liked to “move” when in a confrontational conversation. In the car he says he has been told by his other friends that he doesn’t know how he comes across, and my empathy kicked in, I felt bad for him and said it was ok. Next day realized he literally didn’t take ownership still.

“If only the two of you- separately- could redefine LOVE: what is love?, as the song says…?”

Exactly, I feel this way. When I texted him part of me wanted to hear from someone who was willing to do this, but that was wishful thinking. I would be. I have had the song “I wanna know what love iss…”; haha

Seaturtle