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seaturtle

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  • #438428
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    As that ended on a difficult note I wanted to come back to empathy and positivity as best I can.

    I am so thankful that I have you in my life. And I am thankful that life is providing me with opportunities to become my best self. I believe my intentions are good, and that yours are too. I believe this is a difficult challenge I am facing is not easy for me and will have an equivalent amount of growth for me on the other side 🙂

    Seaturtle

    #438427
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    What is Seaturtle’s personal definitions of a majorly good person and of a  fully good person?

    – This is a good question. What comes to mind now, is that a majorly good person is one with good intentions but doesn’t always get that across, or that they think their intentions are good, but are missing some information and their good intentions are misguided, causing bad outcomes. Whereas a fully good person is completely in line with their third eye, and therefore their intentions are always pure, never contaminated with bias or selfish wants. A fully good person always effects the environment neutrally or positively, a majorly good person can sometimes have negative effects on others and the world.

    “to tap into/ to be One with Shakti, it takes trusting yourself to be a good person first, because you wouldn’t allow a bad person all that power and capability”.

    -I have gone back to this more than once, since you said it. Even had a conversation with K about it, where I saw he struggles with it too. He phrased it as when he receives praise he doubts the validity of it, questioning that they actually see the whole picture, and I related with this deeply. What is interesting though, is what seems obvious to me is I am this way because my dad did not treat me as if I was a good person, he was skeptic of me and I was disciplined and criticized all the time. But for K, he seems to have the same overlying issue as me, doubting his goodness, but he didn’t have a critical parent, his mom over gave praise to him to an extent to where he now wonders ‘what is real praise and what is exaggerated’  because there is no way he deserves that much (his thoughts). How can two different types of parents, both result in a hard time receiving praise or seeing yourself as good? What is the balance of praise and constructive criticism that leads to a healthy self esteem (seeing self as good). I ask because I want to balance myself out, and I also want to raise a balanced child one day.

    The person that made me believe, or heavily suspect, that I was a bad person was my mother. On a regular basis, she accused me- in long, protracted, paranoid and histrionic sessions of accusations- of plotting to hurt her feelings and humiliate her. She accused me of planning what to say and do

    – Our experiences are so similar. I am thankful to have someone like you who is farther in the healing process to help me!

    Who plans and intentionally actualizes plans to cause pain to one’s mother, if not a bad person..?

    – good point.

    I wasn’t sure that she was wrong. I doubted myself. I became very careful about the words I said, or thought about saying, too anxious, too careful.

    – this brings me back to your comment about my desires to run away or even leading to self harm, wanting to rid myself and surroundings of this “bad person” that I had no control over, since I had no idea I was doing this and felt out of control of my own intentions.

    I think of the majority of my life as a stolen life, stolen and held hostage by her.

    – I deeply empathize with you.

     I waited and waited for her to give me the permission to live my own life (by telling me that I was a good person) long after I knew that I was still waiting. I gave her all that I could give her, money included, but never got the Good Person label from her.

    – This is where I can be thankful, and one of the ways my experience breaks away from yours. This anchor weighs/weighed, less for me after 24 years. After I got farther from F, and he saw I was happy away from him there is a sliver of understanding that I am good without him, but he definitely still sees me as very flawed. My way of life doesn’t make sense to him and he still laughs at me.  I told him about my adventures in colorado and meeting K, my plans to travel, and he just laughs at me because I am living life “so differently” “why would you work at a cafe you are way too over qualified” “you are a nanny? you spend time with kids for fun? what a waste of your time, hahaha” But then he says he is glad I am happy.. which I think I believe. I still feel like he sees me as less than others/ ill-intentioned on accident/ skeptical of me (as you would be of a bad person). It’s like he doesn’t see me as bad anymore, but he sees me as something else now… not intelligent, lazy (since I am not resume building/ climbing a corporate ladder), not reliable (asking me if I need help all the time as if I can’t support myself), doesn’t trust my decisions until I just make them and he sees the benefits way later, but this still builds me no reporte.

     

    for the majority of my life, I drifted in a purgatory, drifting between heaven (waiting to be labeled Good) and hell (resisting being labeled Bad).
    – when you say the majority of your life, how long ago did you begin peeling this label off? is it off?
    I believe that you were not selfish, controlling, manipulative, etc., when it came to your father, but it is possible that you have been so with others, to one extent or another, at times.. is it possible?
    – I do believe I was this way with my sisters and friends when I was little. Taking advantage of their minds being easily controllable to what I wanted to do. How F treats weak minds. F takes full advantage of weak minds.. I don’t trust him. I am having a moment right now where I am realizing how deeply I don’t trust him in this way.
     (1) my mother presented herself as a good person: no she was not a good person. To me, and to those most vulnerable to her, she was a bad person,
    – This is what I mean by not trusting F, As I typed “I don’t trust him,” I saw him as bad. Is it possible to see someone as partially bad and good? or is it one or the other?
    I currently see myself as a good person. I define a good person as a person who cares to do no harm, and to help people whenever possible.
    -This makes me feel like I am good 🙂
    (2) my mother presented me as a bad person: no I was not a bad person. I was as good a person to her as can be. My empathy was with her, I would have done anything to help her, and I did do all that I could.”
    “I earned my good-person-label by repeatedly and intentionally correcting my behaviors (words said/ typed, and chosen actions) from Harmful to Helpful, best I can.”
    – Interesting here is I am not sure if my dad presents me as bad or good. I think he tries to present me as good but he sees me as bad.. He tells his friends stories of me that are fabricated.. only the parts he thinks that are good, but I am not sure he believes what he is saying when he tells them. That’s so painful to me, and how he made me feel, like he was trying sooo hard to see me as good but just couldn’t because that is how bad I was.. barely redeemable :/ I feel sad at this moment.
    – I did do all that I could too, my intentions were so pure from my perspective, and I always tried to correct myself to his needs. Truly did all I could do too.
    -This is a hard conversation to have for me and I suspect you too, thank you for opening up wounds to help me. Anita you are fantastic ❤️
    – “from Harmful to Helpful” I can see myself doing this in my life now 😉 I didn’t want the negative energy around me to be because of me, so I started by noticing after I said something that it was contaminating to the environment. Then I got better and started to notice before it even came out of my mouth, and now I think I am getting to the point of changing my thoughts to begin with 🙂 This is making me realize how I have grown away from certain friends, because as I challenged myself to face my unhelpful commentary, I saw others, and as I put effort to avoid my own I avoided others. Pushed negativity out of my life even if that meant people :/
    -Even at the cost of hurting my heart temporarily I pushed away “badness” and strove to be more positive and helpful. A quality of a good person 🙂 I also still want to help others be more positive even if it is at the cost of me exposing myself to it.. now is this a quality of a good person or is it self destructive to expose myself to at all? My friend P, I still haven’t spoken to in person and I suspect she thinks I am incapable of supporting others, because I distanced myself from her negativity that I know is still there just based on brief texting conversation. Maybe I should write her a letter, that makes me feel less anxious than being in her presence and feeling like I need to defend myself :/ I am just now learning to defend myself to myself that I am good! let alone others.
     I shift from judgment => to empathy.
    – I have been attempting this for a while now and found lots of success and a shift in my energy from anxious to loving. But there is a current situations I am dealing with that I am finding a road block between judgement -> empathy. Long story as short as I can; The parents of the child I nanny are separating. I found out three weeks ago, they sat me down and he confessed to being an alcoholic. The mom is extremely empathetic, and has asked him to go to rehab since she found out, she found out the day they got home with their little girl from the N.I.C.U. on breathing tubes as an infant. This father has made me feel uncomfortable more than once, subtly, with comments that he feels a connection to me (conversationally, being too vulnerable with me about his issues and marriage problems).. I have distanced myself and set boundaries, that he did abide by after telling him I did not want anything from him at all and my loyalties were to his wife. He works 25 hours a week for a tech company that removes medical waste, his wife is with make-a-wish, very high up over 40 hours a week. She got a job opportunity she has been pursuing for months with Save the Children, she is incredibly passionate about since she was 15. She was called for an interview that was likely to lead to a job opportunity, and that was the same week her husband had an alcohol experience that was intense enough for her to make him leave the house. Only to be with their girl under supervision. As she got offered her dream job to help world wide children, he then decides (after being asked for two years and refusing) to go to rehab. Leaving her a single mom near impossible to accept this new job. I just found out she turned it down. I have been working extra hours for them and been as emotionally supportive as possible as the mom bends backwards to decide to be in her dream career or a present mom. I feel upset and angry with this man. I could say very judgemental things I am sure are not hard to guess. He self destructs and decides to go to rehab all when his wife was about to get her dream job, and he has the audacity to act like he is the victim. I am really struggling to have any empathy for him at all and in my heart is pure judgement. I don’t like how this makes me feel and I suspect it is a test from the universe to practice an intense degree of empathy, that will make me a better person. But, and I wasn’t planning on bringing this here, I think you may be able to help me find some empathy? or guide me to how you have found empathy in the hardest situations?
    When I find myself thinking/ feeling what may lead to harmful words or actions, I redirect my attention => to thoughts and feelings that are congruent with helping, not with harming.
    -I even found myself tempted to do harm by not caring much about making his facetimes with the little girl happen, as they can only happen with me there since the wife and him are not speaking. I stopped myself from this behavior, but my judgements have clearly not been tamed with empathy.

    Seaturtle
    #438373
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    ” excellent insight, I am impressed!”

    – Thank you for acknowledging this as an insight, it helps to remind myself, otherwise, sometimes insights come and go.

    ” I am thinking that to tap into/ to be One with Shakti, it takes trusting yourself to be a good person first, because you wouldn’t allow a bad person all that power and capability. I wouldn’t.”

    This is a really good point I will continue to think about. What comes to mind immediately is that there are things I fear that I am, that I don’t want to be. But some of those things I am also unsure if they are true, or they are just what I have been told. Like F’s accusing me of being selfish, controlling and manipulative, all things that infact, he is. The things I watch out for in myself, because I don’t want to be them: selfishly controlling situations, not empathizing with others, not listening to others, thinking I know better/ superiority complex, or over-extending of myself to others emotional needs.

    Even writing this I know that my awareness of it already makes it less likely I will be these things, but I think I worry more that I will accidentally be a bad person.. selfish, self righteous, rude, prideful/ greedy etc.

    Maybe all the seeing the unknown unknowns that you mentioned yesterday starts with seeing- with conviction- that you are a good person.

    – Eye opening and sad, is that I don’t have an initial instinct on how to see myself as more good. It does help to have people like K, sent to me from the universe to tell me. But, I do agree it has to truly come from me, cause it is easy to just not believe others opinions. I know I have good aspects, and I am optimistic I see myself as majorly good, a lot of the time, but definitely not fully.

    Do you see yourself as fully good?

     

    Seaturtle

    #438270
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Helcat,

    You must give me some potty training tips! 

    What I can say, as we are about 4 weeks in, the first 3-5 days plan nothing else. Something I wasn’t expecting was how often they just tinkle! We were constantly watching her legs, and it was definitely a two man job for the first 3-5 days. I spent more days with them that week, and as I got there the parents alternated taking showers and one was always with me. Pads, towels and sheets all over their floors, with 3 potties spread throughout their one story home. Also a tip, we started at 10 min intervals, then slowly worked our way to 20, and now she says when she needs to go! but at the intervals, her mom read not to ask her, because if you ask them if they need to go potty they will see no every time, cause they don’t “want” to, it’s like they don’t really understand what that question means. So at intervals we say “we are going to the potty,” and sit there till she does. At each potty station we had a stack of books, half of which were potty training books, to normalize bathroom talk haha. I have never talked so much about such things hahaha.

    I did make the decision with my intuition and you are right that is enough to just trust it. 🙂

    “There is a concept in teaching. You know the things you know. You know some things that you don’t know. And then you don’t know some things that you don’t know. These are called unknown unknowns. It’s this idea of unknown unknowns that I tend to think of as running on automatic. To change first there needs to be understanding. So it’s really hard to change what you don’t know needs to be changed. If that makes sense? Only when we become aware of a possibility can we work on it.”

    Wow this gave me such a vivid memory. My grandpa told me this once about this concept. So on automatic, is that person not acknowledging the unknown unknowns? As opposed to someone not-on automatic, is trying to see them? If this is what you mean I do relate, to times of not having the perceived energy to see more, but then also times of the opposite. Like I feel on the cusp of something I need to know, and am hesitant to make decisions even, because I just know I am missing a certain perspective or knowledge. Actually, now as I express this, I think this is how I live my life, I am in automatic for a while then I hit some sort of wall that doesn’t make sense to me, so then I have to pause and see more of my unknown unknowns before I can move forward. Sometimes I even get anxious, just wanting to know all the things I don’t know before I move forward so not to make a mistake or not live my life to the fullest.

    Maybe this is also why I was away from this forum for a while, because I came here in my state of knowing there were unknown unknowns, and You and Anita, helped me see so much. Then I ran on automatic with my new eyes, and now I am looking to see more once again. I wonder if this window of running on automatic, shortens over time and my capacity to see unknown unknowns broadens, and at some point I will be constantly seeing the unknown unknowns, and living as wise as I can..

    Ultimately, I have faith that things work out the way they are supposed to.

    This reminds me of the book that K is writing, a book of going back in time but trying not to change history and the effects of watching even the bad parts of history play out.

     

    Seaturtle

    #438269
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    This response reminds me of how clearly you see things, and how I have learned so much from you. You put things into words that are like floating puzzle pieces in my mind and you connect them just like that.

    “It’s a conflict within you.” 

    This is exactly how it feels, like I am arguing with myself, and as my natural self is revealing itself, the conflict is the thought “stop this is too much expression!” “Look around only your shoes and backpack are out”

    In these moments K has seen me start to go back into my shell and looked at me with curiosity as I am hiding in my turtle shell. He doesn’t ask me, but I admit to him that I feel like I have shared too much and I need him to reciprocate before I can reveal more. And as he starts to reveal himself, it brings me out of my shell again. It is so interesting because it is like this automatic response I have, to retreat into my shell, but I simultaneously know that I don’t want to and I also know what I need to come back out. K is very receptive to what I tell him I need to feel more comfortable, and not only does he not react as though it is inconvenient to him, he acts with admiration that I know what I need and he is happy to give it. 🙂

    This neutral and positive response from him lets me hear this conflict in me. Rather than F and N looking at me confused and irritated, which only adds to what is going on in my head and I can’t even hear myself because of the new thoughts their reactions create “oh no I have shared too much” “now I am alone and over exposed again, why do I keep doing this to myself, I will share less of myself next time to avoid this.”

    If there is such thing as a twin flame, K is one. He makes me feel safe in wounded places and definitely makes me feel challenged in areas I am stubborn.  He also had a similar childhood to me in interesting ways, both parents narcissistic, and emotionally requiring his support as a child. It makes for very similar experiences but with different perspectives, I think we have a lot we can learn from eachother.

    Seaturtle

    #438214
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Helcat,

    Wow, IT sounds very technical, where are you wanting it to take you after school?

    The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a great read about all of this. There is also a commentary on it called The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.

    – good to know!!

    Just wait until the potty training starts haha, I am currently doing this with the girl I nanny, alongside her parents. The entire house had towels and floor mats down for a week and she needed to be watched like a hawk, but so many wins along the way 🙂

    That is gloomy news about your cat and dog, especially the cat prank calls that actually feels cruel. Life is just so unpredictable, the parents of the little girl I nanny are separating, so I’ve been under some rain clouds lately too. Things that are just impossible to prepare for. I appreciate your optimism though, and on the same trend I am trying to see things as growing opportunities… even gifts? I just recently read the Alchemist, have you read it? It has me currently on high awareness for omens.

    I so hope you can figure things out too. You’ve shared so much good relationship advice with me and I am sure with others, so your karma could be very helpful right about now! I hope it’s a situation you can see clearly as you move through it.

    t’s very romantic of him to invite you along, it does sound like you are doing the right thing focusing on your personal journey. Who knows what will happen later? I’m sure you will stay in touch and find out. 😊

    – It was romantic 🙂 It is difficult to not want the relationship now though and I have some fear that it won’t return and I am passing something up that I will regret.

    I don’t think you miss windows running on automatic. But the proactive approach perhaps creates new windows.

    -The end of your message is deep and I think could lead to a lot of interesting conversations. Creating new windows is interesting, I wonder if new is necessarily better? To me it seems someone running on automatic would miss things right in front of them, miss signs of what to potentially avoid or persue, it seems like the harder route to take, sort of like ignorance is bliss. I think of automatic as being on auto pilot, not feeling your feelings and missing out on connections, is this what you mean?

    There is no sense avoiding good experiences to prevent bad things from happening. That is a way to miss out on life and suffer. 

    This makes me loop back to being afraid that I am passing up an opportunity with K that won’t come around again. Cause a reason I don’t want to align my life with his yet, is that I don’t want to miss out on individual growth. I don’t want to get stuck in a gaslighting loop like I did with N, giving a dying relationship all of my energy.  I am currently pondering the question of whether I can grow individually with him now or not, If he would make me stronger or weaker… One of my solutions to that has been to just not make any big decisions and individually, just keep moving forward until there’s some clearer sign, but missing an opportunity is a fear I have.

     

    Seaturtle

    #438215
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Helcat, I responded, but my post is again waiting moderation, I am not sure why, so it is on its way and hopefully doesn’t take as long as carrier pigeon.

    Seaturtle

    #438213
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    You wrote: “ I feel I am too much. What do you think?“- I realize that before I respond further, I need to understand what you mean by being too much: can you explain to me what you mean by it, dear Sea Turtle?

    – K is very self reflective and asks me questions he’s asked himself, or ones that he thinks would be relevant to me. If I am opening up about a childhood memory he asks more questions, rather than trying to change the subject like N or my father. His questioning, his wanting me to open up, makes me uncomfortable. It’s made me realize that my relationship with N made me feel so capable of vulnerability, but actually it was not hard to be more vulnerable than him. So really it was me just attracting someone who was less than I was, now I am communicating with someone who welcomes vulnerability and I am finding it actually makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I am oversharing or over-burdening him with information. I have told K this, and his response was that I did not make him feel that way at all. So I realize it is in my head and I am wondering what that’s about. I am also just curious about this dichotomy that I having been aching to be seen, and now that someone is trying I am uncomfortable, which makes sense cause it is unfamiliar, but I want to learn how to be comfortable with it. Did this answer your question?

    Seaturtle

    #438127
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    “a recent awakening for me has been to see myself in a positive, empathetic light: something I needed to see so badly and for too long.”

    – wow, I keep running into this within myself and others, being seen. You saw me in a positive and empathetic light 🙂 If we treat others how we are treating ourselves on the inside, then I’d say this forum is probably a great place to see others–> see yourself.. do you think so?

    I wrote the above before seeing your next line. 🙂

    Something I am learning about myself, through the special person, we will call K, revealed to me very intensely. He asked so many questions about me, my upbringing and surroundings, because he genuinely wants to understand me. However,
    as I would express myself, I recognized in me, that after a certain amount of time talking I would start to feel like I was making things too much about myself. And I start to tap out, get shy and not want to talk about myself anymore. I think this applies to this forum as well. I think to come here with a current thought/struggle or question, but then I feel like I am being selfish.

    I know I have run into this before with you, remember when I was questioning myself, wondering if I was narcissistic like my parents? So I ended up in a thought trail online, the other day, starting with “why do I over take responsibility in situations.” I searched this because I found, and my sister told me, that I have a pattern of blaming myself for a dynamic that isn’t my fault. Thinking it is my fault for feeling something, rather than it actually being a real feeling I need to validate and accept. Or thinking someones emotions are my responsibility. I read the article on “How toxic guilt and false responsibility keep you in dysfunction” (PsychCentral)  “as children and adolescents, people feel responsible for the needs and emotions of their parents. Usually this sense of responsibility comes from being overtly or covertly blamed and punished.” “…child is punished for making mistakes”

    And this is where I got my answer on this fear of narcissism I have: “unlike people with strong narcissistic tendencies and similar dark personality traits who never take responsibility for their actions, people who suffer from false responsibility and toxic guilt are very quick to attribute what went wrong to themselves and blame themselves for it.”

    Another thing that really resonated with me was this “Since people who suffer from chronic self-blame constantly feel shame and guilt, they are exceptionally susceptible to manipulation. The manipulator can always appeal to their false sense of responsibility…” I have had a fear of manipulation for a long time, after leaving my dads home, realizing only after looking back, that it was happening.

    So to wrap this back to me feeling like I am taking up too much space, making things about my emotions or experiences. Doing this is unfamiliar to me. My parents always made things about themselves. I was allowed a small window of self expression, but after that time limit hits I feel I am too much. What do you think? I feel like this is alot of information I am still trying to process if you have a perspective to add or perhaps relate? As I know we both have parents like this.

     

    Seaturtle 🙂

     

     

    #438123
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Helcat,

    When you say “We are mostly around.” who are you speaking for? Is there a pretty consistent group of responders on this site? I had a recent schedule change that I am getting used to right now.

    You had exams? What are you studying!? I just started taking an open online course, The Philosophy of Death. The first half of the class is whether or not we have a soul and the second half is if ‘this conclusion’ then what next, and is suicide ever moral. I am super excited.

    I bet your son is up and walking now! Still teething I bet, but getting better?

    It is so cool that we were just speaking of Death according to Buddhist teachings, and I have now found my way to a philosophy course on it. It wasn’t what I was searching,  I have just had this recurring inspiration to take some philosophy and psychology courses, and my search lead me to two open courses and one was on death. What would be really cool is if I used the Buddhist perspective to write one of my papers for the class, there are three papers due throughout the course. Since it is an open course I don’t think I get to submit anything, but I am still going to write them. If not for myself, then maybe I use them to apply to the college program.

    “He does sound special indeed.”

    He is very special. He came to visit me for 10 days! Such a long time to have someone I only met twice but both our intuitions seemed align in that it would only bring good things. The best way to explain my connection with him is it felt like I was with myself. I felt this way after a couple days with him. He was some of my favorite and least favorite parts of me. My favorite parts were so comforting and reconnected me with parts of myself I haven’t accessed in a while. A big one was laughter. WE laughed sooo much, I felt comfortable being silly, just singing my lungs out in the car, sword fighting in a store with fake swords, I took him to improv with me and it was just a blast. He likes to make friends everywhere he goes too, and has this deep desire for connection. He’s very knowledgable about things I am not and taught me so many things. Not only that but listened to my insights and perspective on my life here, and he actually respected it and took advice from me. I felt valued. And seen 🙂

    I have this gut feeling, that he and I will continue to run into eachother on our individual paths, and end up together. It is the strangest feeling though because I also think we both are following our hearts right now and trying to grow, and neither of us want to go against our instincts for the other.. This is what I mean ->

    he is going to New Zealand for a year, he asked me to go, and to be his girlfriend. Something I would have loved to hear, but in that moment it just didn’t feel right. It felt like it would be over indulging in a passing pleasure, that would loop back around to us stronger if we just let it. I told him this. That although a scary thought, what if we just give this amazing connection we have, back to the universe and see what opportunities come from that.

    days later, after laughter, getting to know one another and just having so many little adventures in mundane places. I started to doubt myself. I brought it back up and said, well we are only human.. are we suppose to trust this universe this much? or just take what it’s given us now? His response was amazing, because it somehow brought me back to my trust in the universe. He said “When I think of my trip to NZ it strikes a chord in me, that I just know I am suppose to go. When I considered bringing you, it didn’t affect that chord, not negatively but also not positively. Like I would still have my growth if you were with me. But if I were to steer you off your path, to come with me, that would break my heart.” I felt stronger after he said this, knowing we were making the right decision to wait. 🙂

     

    “The majority of the time I feel like people are almost running on automatic and trying to develop the skills for their choices until their next window. Being proactive in development’s helps bring these windows closer together. Having lots of experiences brings lots of changes too in my experience. Bad and good, it is sometimes hard to see the outcome for many years. What do you think?”

    Do you think if you run on automatic while trying to develop the skills for your next window, that you then miss the window?  It certainly resonates with me that being proactive in your development, brings the windows closer together. I really believe this year I have experienced more windows than other years. I also agree that lots of experiences bring changes with them, yes bad and good. Do you think we can be wise enough to avoid most the bad ones and intentionally select good ones? or that new experiences are just a gamble? Yes I agree, hard to see for many years. Even this situation with this special person I met, I have no idea when it will bear the fruit I know it will.

    Seaturtle 🙂

    #436334
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Hi Helcat!

    I miss this chat and especially you and Anita. I have had a busy summer, and find myself missing talking with you guys but not liking the part where I have to come to my computer and type. I wish we could have an in person book club or some other way of meeting. Even a set time every week on this site when we come and chat back and forth about current life 🙂 what do you think?

    “Haha I doubt it is your first go around either. There was a Buddha that would predict how many lifetimes it would take to achieve enlightenment. It usually measured in the hundreds.”

    I think you are right, that this is not my first go around. Honestly it feels like this has been a very pivotal lifetime for me so far, because I’ve had some major shifts, that afterwards looking back on myself realize I was not seeing things clearly as they are. My constant intention is to see things as they are. It can still be a haze sometimes though, where I feel like my thoughts and emotions are clouding truth. I am proud to even be aware of that haze though. I know I still have habits and triggers that cloud my vision, third eye. I wonder how many lifetimes it has taken for me to get to this place of seeing the fog and trying to see through it. If in this lifetime I can not only notice there is haze, but also learn to not let it cloud my vision, I would say it was an incredibly pivotal lifetime and I’m excited to start the next at that checkpoint 🙂

    “Well the goal is for a soul to eventually achieve enlightenment and apparently the human realm is the only realm in which enlightenment can be achieved.  It is very curious. For you interest, the other realms are gods, demi gods, ghosts, animal and hell.”

    Do you think our souls get to choose? or is the idea that it is some sort of order we are all put in.. to become gods? I want to learn more.

    “I definitely see those things in you. You have a very special soul and are a wonderfully open person. I always liked people who are like this, it takes a lot of courage. ❤️

    🙂 <3. Recently I am finding myself draw more people like this into my life and it is so refreshing. I met a special soul while I was recently in Colorado, his very open and light heart was so curious to me. We decided to go to a concert together and found me had this openness in common which made for just awesome conversation and connection 🙂

     

    “I don’t know what your beliefs about souls are? If you have any I’d like to hear them. 😊

    It is definitely a developing belief. Right now I feel like souls radiate at different frequencies and those frequencies are where they live. Victim mindset being a low frequency for example and drawing to it more events and people on the same frequencies, sort of like self fulfilling prophecy. I think souls get stuck in those cycles. I think I have gotten stuck in cycles. On a high frequency I think of someone who is unattached to earthly possessions, and souls who see every day as a new day, and every experience as new, not seeing things through the lens of their past. I want to get there, but I still notice myself analyzing other people and situations based off of my past, but I don’t think that is seeing things ‘as they truly are.’ I’d also like to believe that souls pass on with the knowledge or Karma, that they accumulated from past lives.

     

    Seaturtle

    #436335
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Hello Anita 🙂

    I miss you!

    It’s true at different times I have been on the receiving end of narcissism. Perhaps this is one of the reasons I want to understand and see myself so badly, because I never want to make someone else feel how they made me. Because I do believe they did it unaware of their manipulation and effect it would have on me, so I know it can be unconsciously done.

    I wanna learn and hear about the awakenings you’ve had in this lifetime? How have/do you set yourself up for spiritual growth?

    Seaturtle

    #434876
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I apologize for the late reply to your thorough and thoughtful response.

    “he said please and thank you and all other social-butterfly expressions, but didn’t mean any of them, forming a superficial persona, saying all the right things but not meaning them, remaining on the surface, avoiding depth.”

    “I think that his elated, optimistic, excited expressions are not genuine. They lack depth. He is doing his social lubrication/ public relations kind of communication with you.”

    My whole life, and perhaps a personality of my soul is that I am, sensitive to people being fake. When someone is fake with me, it makes me feel cold inside, and void of my desire to connect, in fact I would rather leave. But I learned this “superficial persona,” and I learned it well enough to get through highschool, somewhat ok. Outside of my experience being bullied on my school soccer team. I think my mom had a superficial persona as well, but my dad’s is/was a lot more successful in social situations. My mom has an “extroverted persona” but when she is not in public it goes away. I learned this as well. I learned both of my parents superficial personas, making me appear socially equipped. But I learned this persona wasn’t attracting authentic people, so I have been learning to undo it, and in fact stop caring how I come across to every single person. I have gotten much better, but still have moments with the people closer to me, where I wonder what they are thinking of me. But I do my best to consciously refuse to act a certain way to get some perceived approval from them. I am proud of this 🙂

     

    “your father and my mother have this in common: growing up invisible and angrily, demanded excessive visibility from their daughters, your father,  during his “house cleaning” sessions; my mother, during her poor-me, histrionic sessions.
    In my mother’s excessive demands that I see her caused me to set my eyes on her, to not see me or anyone, but her. “
    As I read this I realized more about myself. My mom also has/had these poor-me sessions, demanding I see her, and I am now realizing, consequently not seeing myself. Until I was in 8th grade, 13 and becoming a woman, I didn’t receive too much attention from my dad. Pre-13 my dad played with us like kids, but was emotionally and at times physically absent. He would play with us but not be present. It was in this time I believe my mom used me as an emotional venting place. I would escape her by playing with my siblings. After 13 my dad became more strict on places I could go, things I would wear and all this. Then 16 when I moved in with him, is when he began to demand this excessive visibility from me.
    “a fighting sea turtle (sea turtles chase, bite, hit with their shells, butt heads, literally.. so I read).”
    hahaha, made me laugh out loud in this cafe!
    “patience, young grasshopper.. I mean, young sea turtle, lol. (and patience, anita). The voice does get weaker. It’s not loud, and it doesn’t take center stage like it used to.”
    🙂
    “But his core emotional unseen experience was cemented within him before you were born. It was not, and is not in your power to dissolve his cement.
    Interesting, how by demanding that you see him, he created your core emotional unseen experience, about which we talked in the past, an experience that’s in the process of being dissolved, good job, Seaturtle!”
    I’d never thought of my dad as feeling unseen, until reading this. But you are so right. When I was home, just recently I had lunch with him where he randomly started to defend himself, about things that I had never said. He was defending himself from a politically correct sort of stand, as if he was being judged by others, and that his (very real) hard work was not understood or appreciated. It was in this moment I realized his defensiveness had nothing to do with me, I had just gotten home! It was not mine to solve, but I still tried, and his facial expression made me believe he could see what I was saying was true. I told him what those people thought, as far as how hard he worked, simply did not matter. I was afraid he would just vent more to me, but instead he silenced and we began a new topic of conversation. 🙂 It was a moment I feel like he could see me. These moments have been occurring in the past year, since I moved states away from home. He didn’t see me for most of my life, but as I heal from this core experience, I believe he also wants to heal and I think we may be able to help eachother!
    “Your father created this sensitivity in you (of being selfish) and I’m guessing that your sisters became aware of this sensitivity over the years, willing to use it against you..?”
    Yes, especially one of my sisters who has a talent for poking peoples buttons and insecurities.
    I say to the sea turtle: sea turtle, when you are close enough to a shark, and you look into the shark’s eyes, you will not see your authentic self. You will see a predator approaching his/ her meal.
    I will close my imagery with a dolphin-anita swimming side by side with a sea turtle in a blue-purple deep sea.
    Dear wise dolphin-anita, I appreciate and understand the imagery
    thank you and please stay swimming close <3
    I truly feel bad about your thoughtful message getting left without a response, please forgive me.
    Seaturtle
    #434874
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Helcat,

    I am so happy your soul had a bizarre level of hope, certainly not a trait of a soul’s first time around the block!

    I like your question about my soul’s personality. I came up with this, my soul has always sought understanding of others and of myself, I have always sought self improvement, and connection, at times at whatever cost.

    There were some personality traits like wisdom and an optimism that I can creatively make it in this world, not necessarily a cut and dry path my parents tried to get me to follow. But then it occurred to me, my sister has those similar traits. Which makes me wonder if they are environmental personality traits. Are there any concepts in Buddhism that speak on souls and siblings?

    Tibetan Buddhism sounds so interesting I will have to read up on it. To choose the realm we reincarnate to next, sounds great. But then I read “all options other than the human realm are considered bad,” I am curious about this. I am surprised because this would mean the most enlightened souls are here on our earth in human form? Or perhaps they go to “bad” realms to make them better?

    “I have a ridiculous hope that for me one day the pain will go away entirely.”

    This is not ridiculous, sounds like your inner child soul speaking 😉

     

    Seaturtle

    #434844
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Good morning,

     

    I have been reading “the Seat of the Soul” by Gary Zukav

    “All the energy of the soul does not incarnate. To incarnate, the soul creates a personality from those parts of itself that it wants to heal in the physical environment, and from those parts of itself that it lends to the process of healing in that lifetime.”

    “So powerful is the energy of the soul that it could not advance into a physical form without, literally, exploding that form. In the creation of personality, the soul calibrates parts of itself, reduces parts of itself, to take on the human experience. Your higher self is that aspect of your soul that is in you, but is not the fullness of your soul. It is a smaller soul self. Therefore, “higher self” is another term for “soul,” yet the soul is more than the higher self.”

    “Intuition is a walkie-talkie, so to speak, between the personality and the soul. This happens through the higher self.”

    It is making me ask myself, “what is my soul here to heal?” “does the personality have its own set of wounds it needs to heal? wounds that were accumulated in this life? or was I born with my wounds.”

    I’ve spent a long time, practicing self awareness and healing wounds of my personality. When he says the soul creates a personality, does he mean we were born into this world with our personality?

    Are/have any of you reading this become familiar with the process of healing your soul? I wonder if what needs to heal becomes clearer, and what is the light at the end of the tunnel like, after you have healed an aspect of your soul?

     

    Seaturtle

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