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Reply To: On love and morality

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#67045
Vhanon
Participant

Oh, thank you Tir, what an enlightening reply. I’m not sure whether it changes anything, but let me extend the scenario a little bit.

Jerry and Martha started to know each other one year before they actually started the relationship. During those times Martha told Jerry she had been single since a few years. Slowly Jerry started to have an interest into her and he proposed. Martha refused to start a relationship with him. Jerry hoped that Martha made her decision easier on him with an explanation. Among the other things Martha said she did not want to make the same mistakes again. Since Martha arguments did not really convince Jerry, and she looked interested in him, he told her he felt committed and was willing to wait, maybe she could change her mind or give him a reason to believe she really did not want to stay with him. Jerry failed to state that if she found another man that would have been a very good reason to let her go and move on. He thought she would tell him for friendship sake. If they wanted different things in the future, that would have been another good reason too. Eventually Jerry and Martha fought, he wanted to know why she was looking for him, what were her goals, what she wanted in life, what was her view of love. Martha got angry at him because he did not want to comply to what she looked right behavior to her, and he looked obsessed with his feelings for her. They did not meet each other for five months. Jerry got depressed, Martha got diagnosed with an illness. Eventually Jerry gave up, he apologized to Martha for believing she was interested in him, he proposed to be friends. Martha accepted and promised him to not lie and he promised her to not nourish any hopes for the feelings he still held. They were friends for a couple of months. Jerry had found a job in a city nearby and was planning to move there. Martha had a dream, a voice that told her “you are going to lose him if you do not stop him now”. Martha told he had been thinking about him those months they were apart and she proposed to him. However, when as a mere confirmation about what he already knew, Jerry stated that Martha had been with nobody else during the time he had been waiting, she did not say a word. Nor she did say a word in the a few following situations the topic was touched later. Jerry forgave her that she made him believe she wanted to be just friends, even if she actually wanted something more.

Compassion. Shouldn’t there be a limit for it? If someone starts counting on the fact you are always showing compassion, wouldn’t he eventually take advantage of it? How can you say when the person he is genuinely wrong or is acting on purpose? How do you distinguish between a malicious or a fragile place? If a bat sucks your blood, should you stay still and be amazed at what a wonderful creature of nature it is (well maybe one little bat would be ok, but imagine it is very big and hungry)?

Quote
“Couples who know compassion, who do not rely on each other to make the other happy and who are well adjusted would probably have the tools to deal with past omissions and treat each other with compassion and respect instead of duplicity and depression. ”

If two persons do not rely on each other to make the other happy, why would they ever be together? Why would they ever make plans for a future? What past can they ever celebrate? At the very least you are counting on the other to exist somehow.

Quote
“Another man, who was more compassionate and open hearted would have seen the situation differently.”

So Jerry was not compassionate. He did not wait for Martha to understand she stabbed him and make a choice to either heal him with an apology and her presence or to look for a new relationship before he died. Jerry did not feel sick to give Martha the chance to actually help him. And Martha did not feel sick because she had trouble deciding. But yes, I suppose that was unworthiness what Jerry projected into Martha after he knew the truth. It was impossible for her to restore the trust, unless she showed that same compassion to him, with who knows what great sacrifice.

Quote from Inky
“To be honest, I skimmed half of what you said because the defensiveness is so heavy. Did you come here for advice, opinions or to argue?”

I just wanted some aswers to my questions. I also hoped for some analysis rather then a simple statement of the kind “Jerry was an idiot to assume the truth would have been revealed”. But that’s ok. This is my last post on this thread, I’ll stay quiet.