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anita.
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January 28, 2025 at 1:41 pm #441890
Jana 🪷
ParticipantGrowing up, I felt that there was either a lack of interest or rejection/belittling of my troubles. So, I gave up. I realized that I was simply alone. I had to go through it on my own. And I closed myself in my little inner world, the only world, hope, support I had/have… And I feel selfish because now as an adult I should be a part of society – the “outside”…a responsible, practical, useful member of the outside…. I have problems with it… on many levels… I was an independent introvert even as a very small child (my parents always tell me about it), but later my introversion became deeper… and during the life I gradually lost motivation to be a part of the “outside”… like “Why should I try? It always ends up badly. I’m better off alone.” … and that’s where I feel selfish… that I became such a maverick…
☀️ 🪷
January 28, 2025 at 1:48 pm #441891anita
ParticipantDear Maverick Jana:
I will process what you shared (and what you might share before I return to the computer) and reply further Wed morning (it’s Tues afternoon here).
anita
January 28, 2025 at 10:09 pm #441898Jana 🪷
ParticipantHello Anita, thank you for your time. No need to hurry. Enjoy your time outside/socializing. 😊 I hope that your toes are not freezing anymore!
☀️ 🪷
January 29, 2025 at 4:35 am #441902Anonymous
InactiveHi Jana
I think it’s pretty amazing that you are aware of your feelings, tendencies and in control of them. You’re doing a great job of balancing everything. As expected from a student of the middle way. 😊
Yes, it is true. Angry words can harm a child and even though a parent may be stressed out, it doesn’t take away that pain.
I’m sorry that you experienced that growing up. It is a hard way to grow up. Being rejected by a parent. It seems like your siblings didn’t try and protect you either. Which is what siblings should do.
I’m sorry that you experienced a belittling of your problems growing up too. It wasn’t my intention to belittle your feelings. I just want you to know that. It is just a very complicated mess both raising a family and growing up. It leaves many scars.
It is especially hard being part of a big family, where the parents don’t have much support from other adults. It leads to neglect, emotional deprivation and various other issues. None of it was your fault, just a crisis of circumstance.
This is part of why my husband and I aren’t having another child. We have no support. We cannot afford it. It would put a lot of strain on everyone involved.
Honestly, I don’t think you’re selfish. You’re a very kind, compassionate person and you do great work teaching language. It is awesome to see students develop their skills which they will use to improve their lives. You are doing your part. You are there for your loved ones. What else would you like to do that you are not yet doing?
With the repeated traumas you’ve experienced it makes sense that you’re less relaxed around others. It is okay to prefer your own company. I am much the same way. I tend to only interact with people I trust or have to for whatever reason. Meeting truly kind people is a blessing.
Love, peace and best wishes! ❤️🙏
January 29, 2025 at 8:59 am #441913anita
ParticipantDear Jana:
“Growing up, I felt that there was either a lack of interest or rejection/ belittling of my troubles. So, I gave up. I realized that I was simply alone. I had to go through it on my own. And I closed myself in my little inner world, the only world, hope, support I had/have”-
– Reading this, I remembered how in my writings here in the forums, instead of typing that I “grew up” (as a child), I often type that I “grew in”, as in inward, not upward or outward. I am reminded how much of an introvert I have been. It is only within the last 10 years that I started to grow outward, re-engaging with society for the first time in.. well, decades.
“I was an independent introvert even as a very small child (my parents always tell me about it)”- they always tell you about it as if your independence and introversion were inherent traits that you were born with, while other children were supposedly born dependent and extroverted. Your parents, so it seems, do not realize that these traits- I believe- were responses to their (and others outside the home) lack of emotional support.
I mean, there is no doubt in my mind, now that I finally feel a strong connection with other people, now that I am extroverted (!)- that my introversion was not an inherent trait, and that I would have been extroverted as a child and onward if I grew up in an emotionally supportive home.
“And I feel selfish because now as an adult I should be a part of society – the ‘outside’… a responsible, practical, useful member of the outside… I have problems with it… on many levels… I was an independent introvert even as a very small child… but later my introversion became deeper… and during the life I gradually lost motivation to be a part of the ‘outside”… like ‘Why should I try? It always ends up badly. I’m better off alone.’ … and that’s where I feel selfish… that I became such a maverick…”-
– You feel selfish because, as an adult, you believe you should be actively participating in society. This belief is greatly influenced by societal expectations that adults should be responsible, practical, and useful members of the community.
Thing is, society, starting with one’s parents, has a fundamental duty to provide emotional support, nurturing, and care to children. This foundation is crucial for healthy development. This emotional support helps build trust, self-worth, and a sense of security, enabling children to grow into confident and well-adjusted adults.
In return, individuals who receive adequate support and nurturing are generally more equipped to contribute positively to society. They become responsible, practical, and useful members of the community. This reciprocal relationship benefits both the individual and society. It’s a nonverbal social contract, a give-and-take relationship between Society and the Individual.
When an individual does not receive the necessary emotional support from parents/ society, it’s understandable why one would struggle with engaging and contributing to society, as the basic trust is not there.
It’s not selfish to have coped in the way you did (growing inward), it was natural, understandable, no less natural and understandable than a tree facing drought shedding its leaves and branches.
The drought you grew-in with was the lack of emotional support, similar to a tree growing-less (shedding) because of a lack of water.
I believe that your introversion and self-reliance were necessary responses to your circumstances, and that any child in your place growing-in with the same exact circumstances, would have responded similarly if not identically to how you responded. It is amazing how so much of what we turn out to be is a combination of responses and the interplay between the responses over time.
In the sense of how you responded to the circumstances of your early life, you are not alone: there’s a huge group of people who are introverted and minimally engage with society. It’s just that they are not visible or audible (since they don’t engage), so one doesn’t notice them, while the extroverted are visible and audible, and therefore noticed.
Does this help with your feelings of guilt, just a bit?
anita
January 29, 2025 at 11:32 am #441919Jana 🪷
ParticipantHello Helcat and Anita,
It helps. Thank you a lot. That’s great to have you both. ❤️ Really. It does help on intellectual level. It all makes sense. But on my emotional level, I still tend to blame myself and deny anyone else’s role in this. (the brain says: “You let this happen to you. Get over it and stop whining.”)
I’ll take a slow shower, listen to something nice and calm and I’ll come back later this evening (here 20:32) or tomorrow.
☀️ 🪷
January 29, 2025 at 11:57 am #441921anita
ParticipantDear Jana:
Good to read that it helps on an intellectual level. I completely understand how challenging it can be to align your emotional responses with what you know intellectually. It’s important to remember that emotions don’t always follow logic, and it’s okay to feel conflicted. Be gentle with yourself.
Your feelings of self-blame are common, but they don’t reflect the truth of the situation. Healing takes time, and it’s a journey to find self-compassion. Taking time for self-care is a great step. A slow shower and calming music sound perfect. We’re here for you whenever you’re ready.
anita
January 30, 2025 at 6:11 am #441926Jana 🪷
ParticipantI didn’t get the impression that you were belittling my problems at all. Quite the opposite. 😊 I was sometimes thinking that you might see my situation worse than it really was. It is me, you can see, who tends to downplay the whole thing. There are two typical excuses in my head. I am already an adult (1), and some people had it much worse (2). My inner voice is then very critical and I feel very stupid for such conflicting feelings when the ego keeps telling me that there is nothing to worry about and how selfish, self-centered and weak in fact I have to be when I think that such a little thing is a problem (compared to someone who used to be abused by his/her own parent for years, for example).
But I was attacked by many people many times… physically, verbally… many different people… for long time since my memory actually remembers. And it takes its toll. I cannot even tell you the names of those people because it was “normal” that someone just walking by felt like beating or bullying someone and I happened to be there. I found myself on the receiving end of a good deal of teasing, as well… about my appearance, my social phobia, my bad results at school…
Now, when I am thinking about it I realize how unhappy my generation was. I remember so many neglected children… And the fights between boys were so intense and cruel… and adults in general… so ignorant, careless… emotionless, strict and rigid… I just don’t understand what happened in our society in Czechia that it produced so sick people in the 90s… that amount of frustration, violence, neglect… later in the early 2000s I remember neonazis roaming around… antifa, punks, gypsies… and the clashes between them… I regularly met men being beaten, with bruises and bumps on faces… It was hard for me. I don’t like seeing people beaten or in pain… There was an ever-present sense of violence…
I used to be scared of men. I didn’t let any men approach me until 27.
I cannot point the finger at anyone. Not that I want to! I do not judge people, I do not blame people… we all were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And all of us had to deal with it somehow… you know… there are no specific people… in my story, it wasn’t a father… or a brother… or a neighbour… who hurt me… it was the time, the place, the atmosphere of society… How can I blame that? So, my brain can only blame myself… for being the weak one… I guess. “You should have been stronger.” “You have a choice not to let these things influence you that much.” etc.
I got over the worst. I am so happy. It was a nightmare. And it is over. But I know that there is still this little scar… and you know that scars don’t go away, they are always there… I just don’t usually see it (because it is in the heart)… But the saying “Out of sight, out of mind.” doesn’t work here… It is only about how I care about it when it hurts again…
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January 30, 2025 at 7:32 am #441932Jana 🪷
Participantit’s so sad that people feel bad, guilty and ashamed of their pain… if it weren’t for that, many of us would have a better chance of healing.
☀️ 🪷
January 30, 2025 at 9:58 am #441940anita
ParticipantDear Jana:
* I am adding this note after concluding this post to let you know that I understand that this is a long post with lots in it and I understand that you may not read it all at one time, and that it may take you a long time to process it.
“it’s so sad that people feel bad, guilty and ashamed of their pain… if it weren’t for that, many of us would have a better chance of healing.”-
– Pain is an inevitable part of life, but it’s not just the pain itself that affects people, but also negative emotions tied to it—feelings of guilt and shame. These emotions are a barrier to healing, leading to additional emotional distress to the person already in pain.
Some societal expectations cause individuals to judge themselves harshly for their pain, particularly emotional pain. Many societies value strength, resilience, and the ability to endure hardships without complaint. This can lead individuals to feel that showing pain or vulnerability is a failure to live up to these ideals.
Mental health issues are often stigmatized, leading individuals to feel ashamed of their struggles. Phrases like “just get over it” or “others have it worse” minimize the sufferer’s pain and discourage the sufferer from seeking help. These societal expectations create an environment where experiencing pain, especially emotional or mental pain, is seen as a sign of weakness or inadequacy.
Feeling ashamed or guilty cause individuals to withdraw from others, not seeking support and understanding from others.
By recognizing and challenging these societal expectations, we can create a more compassionate and supportive environment that encourages individuals to openly acknowledge and address their pain. This, in turn, can facilitate the healing process.
“There are two typical excuses in my head. I am already an adult (1), and some people had it much worse”-
– Let’s look at the widely used societal message “others have it worse” (“some people had it much worse”, in your words). This phrase is often used to provide perspective during challenging times. It aims to encourage gratitude and a sense of perspective by recognizing that one’s problems may not be as severe as those faced by others. However, it can be used appropriately (where it’s encouraging and helpful) or inappropriately (where it’s discouraging and harmful).
An example of appropriate use: a friend is feeling overwhelmed by a series of minor problems at work and is expressing frustration. You say to the friend: “I know you’re going through a tough time right now, but try to remember that others have it worse. It doesn’t mean your feelings aren’t valid, but sometimes it helps to put things into perspective. You’ve handled challenges before, and you’ll get through this too”- this response is appropriate because it acknowledges the friend’s feelings and validates them, then gently introduces the idea of perspective to help the friend feel less overwhelmed, and it provides reassurance that the friend has the strength to overcome their current difficulties (it is a validating, empathetic, positive and gentle response).
An example of inappropriate use: someone is sharing their deep feelings of grief after losing a loved one. You then say to the person: “You think you have it bad? Others have it worse. You should just get over it’- this response is inappropriate because it dismisses the person’s feelings and invalidates their grief. It shows a lack of empathy and understanding for the person’s pain, and it can exacerbate feelings of isolation and make the person feel worse. (It is an invalidating, unempathetic, negative and harsh response).
You wrote yesterday: “on my emotional level, I still tend to blame myself and deny anyone else’s role in this. (the brain says: ‘You let this happen to you. Get over it and stop whining.’)”- The societal messages you heard growing up and onward created and reinforced an invalidating, unempathetic, negative and harsh inner critic who minimizes and invalidates your feelings, leading to self-blame and guilt.
“I was attacked by many people many times… physically, verbally… many different people… for long time since my memory actually remembers. .. it was ‘normal’ that someone just walking by felt like beating or bullying someone and I happened to be there. I found myself on the receiving end of a good deal of teasing, as well… about my appearance, my social phobia, my bad results at school… Now, when I am thinking about it I realize how unhappy my generation was. I remember so many neglected children… And the fights between boys were so intense and cruel… and adults in general… so ignorant, careless… emotionless, strict and rigid… I just don’t understand what happened in our society in Czechia that it produced so sick people in the 90s… that amount of frustration, violence, neglect… later in the early 2000s I remember neo-Nazis roaming around… antifa, punks, gypsies… and the clashes between them… I regularly met men being beaten, with bruises and bumps on faces… It was hard for me. I don’t like seeing people beaten or in pain… There was an ever-present sense of violence…”-
– The collapse of communism in 1989 led to significant economic and political changes in Czechia. The transition from a centrally planned economy to a market-oriented one brought about social and economic upheaval, social dislocation, frustration, and a sense of instability. The early 2000s saw the rise of neo-Nazi groups, such as the Workers’ Party, which was eventually banned for its extremist ideology. These groups often targeted minorities and contributed to the climate of violence and fear. The presence of antifa (anti-fascist) groups and punks led to frequent clashes with neo-Nazis and other extremist groups, further exacerbating the sense of violence. The Romani people in Czechia have faced long-standing marginalization and discrimination. The tensions between the Romani community and the majority population often resulted in conflicts and violence.
Generally, during major societal transitions, old power structures collapse, leading to power vacuums. Competing groups or individuals often struggle to fill these voids, resulting in conflict and violence. Major transitions also disrupt economies, leading to unemployment, inflation, and scarcity of resources. Economic hardship often fuels social unrest and violence.
Major societal transitions exacerbate existing social inequalities, leading marginalized groups to demand rights and recognition. These demands can lead to conflicts with those who want to maintain the status quo. Historical grievances and resentments resurface during transitions, leading to agitation and potential violence.
During major transitions, institutions may be weak or in flux, leading to a lack of effective governance and law enforcement. This lack can lead to increased crime and violence. The breakdown or absence of the rule of law can lead to a rise in vigilante justice and extrajudicial actions.
Back to what you posted today: “the brain says: ‘You let this happen to you. Get over it and stop whining'”-
– Internalizing blame can be a way to exert some sense of control over uncontrollable and chaotic circumstances (Czechia in the 1990s and 2000s, a period of social transition, agitation and violence). In situations involving violence and neglect, it’s hard to accept how random and unfair the events truly are. Blaming oneself helps create a story that makes the events feel less random and makes a person feel in some control because it suggests that one’s actions caused the situation and that by changing one’s behavior, one can prevent them from happening again.
Blaming oneself in this context creates an illusion of control. By internalizing blame, a person tries to avoid the distressing powerlessness that accompany random acts of violence, and maintain a sense of agency (feeling that one has some control), even if it is illusory.
Growing up in a culture where violence and neglect are normalized leads individuals to see these behaviors as ordinary, rather than exceptional and unjust. Over time, individuals internalize the belief that violence and neglect are simply how life works. This internalization makes it difficult to recognize these behaviors as wrong or unjust, and instead, a person internalizes the belief that one was somehow responsible for what happened.
In summary: internalizing blame can provide a sense of control and predictability in an otherwise chaotic and unpredictable environment. While this coping mechanism might have helped you survive difficult circumstances, it also perpetuates self-blame and inhibits self-compassion. Recognizing this pattern can be a crucial step towards healing and developing a healthier, more compassionate self-narrative.
Here’s an idea, Jana: what if you type out, as an exercise, a healthier, more compassionate narrative of your experience in the chaotic and unpredictable environments you grew up in?
anita
January 30, 2025 at 10:31 am #441941Anonymous
InactiveHi Jana
I don’t pity you and see you as worse off. I see you as the strong, independent, kind, caring person that you are.
What choice and control does a child actually have though?
A child is very vulnerable and like a sponge taking in everything around it. In an ideal world, a whole family is available to care for a child. It is raised in a peaceful loving environment and all of its needs are met. There are plenty of resources available and the child is socialised well with other children.
Compared with the environment in which you grew up in. There is no wonder you felt scared and alone. Any child would because a child is not an adult and not capable of coping with the same things an adult can.
Intellectually understanding happens first. With time and repetition it starts to sink in with the emotions.
Every child in the world deserves to be raised in an ideal way. It is a shame that life doesn’t work like that.
On the plus side, you turned out to be a really amazing person. And whilst you might not fit in with your culture, there are people who love and appreciate you for who you are. ❤️
You have been amazingly strong in overcoming the challenges that you have faced and done some incredible work which truly inspires me.
Love, peace and best wishes! ❤️🙏
January 30, 2025 at 11:18 pm #441968Jana 🪷
ParticipantAnita, thank you for your investigator’s advice, as always.
A lot to process.
Do you mean I should retell my memories with more compassionate view? I am not sure I can do it. I do have good feelings for the people. I understand them. However, I have a feeling that if I retell my experience differently than it was, I will actually minimize my feelings even more. Now, it seems to me that it would be a form of suppression. But I am not sure what you mean exactly.
☀️ 🪷
January 30, 2025 at 11:44 pm #441969Jana 🪷
ParticipantHello Helcat,
“Every child in the world deserves to be raised in an ideal way. It is a shame that life doesn’t work like that.”
It is! Yesterday I thought about the fact that I don’t know anyone who has a warm relationship with their parents. At best, those relationships are neutral, but there are no warm and loving feelings. It is so sad.
I am sure you know the show “Wife Swap”. I watched one episode and one of the mothers whose boyfriend hit her children said: “I was beaten and I survived. My kids will survive too.” And here we go again. The mindset “I suffer, so you will suffer too.”
No one is self-broken. The poison of hurt feelings is passed down from generation to generation. But we need to wake up and accept that we are hurt and do the best to heal… we can break that vicious circle of pain.
I am very happy that you are so self-aware and try your best to raise your son. I am sorry that you don’t have more support from your family. You husband’s family seem to be quite complicated, too. But you can do it with your self-awareness, clever mind and kind heart. It’s great to know that somebody from a bad family is willing to grow and be different. ❤️
☀️ 🪷
January 31, 2025 at 9:07 am #441984anita
ParticipantDear Jana:
You are always welcome, AND Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for your kind words. I understand that there’s a lot to process, and I appreciate your openness to discussing this further.
When I suggested retelling your memories with a more compassionate view, I didn’t mean to minimize or change the reality of what you went through. Your experiences were real, and it’s important to honor and acknowledge them fully. What I meant was to approach your narrative with self-compassion, giving yourself the kindness and understanding that you deserve.
Here’s an example: Instead of thinking, ‘I let this happen to me,’ you could consider, ‘I did the best I could in a very difficult and chaotic environment.’ This isn’t about changing the facts but rather changing the perspective from one of self-blame to one of self-compassion.
It’s about recognizing that you were a child navigating difficult circumstances and that it’s okay to show yourself the same empathy you would show a friend in a similar situation. This can help reduce the harshness of the inner critic and promote a more supportive inner dialogue.
If you’re comfortable, you might try writing about a specific memory and then gently reframe it with self-compassion. For example, ‘I felt powerless and scared, but I showed strength and resilience by getting through it.’
It’s a delicate process, and it’s okay to take it one step at a time. The goal is not to suppress your feelings but to create a more balanced and compassionate narrative that acknowledges both the pain and your resilience.
If you have any questions or want to talk more about this, I’m here for you.
anita
January 31, 2025 at 9:08 am #441985anita
Participant* and thank you (the big case letters- a mistake)
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