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  • #442022
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Jana

    Well in my country, we separate children based on age. It is considered inappropriate for older children to play with younger children for many reasons. Under 5s only play with under 5s. I’m so sorry that happened to you when you were very young. The older child must have misinterpreted the push. It is very common for younger children to push each other without any bad intent.

    It would be such a shock to your system to suddenly be assaulted. And no one intervened. That is horrible. Adults should always supervise when young children are playing.

    That is awful your sister was so cruel to you. It must have been awful because you were neither safe at home or at school. No wonder you spent much of your time alone. It would be the only time you felt safe.

    I’m curious how did your mother react when you siblings fought?

    To some extent siblings fighting is normal. But I think it is important for parents to intervene, encourage good relationships and dissuade any bad behaviour. It doesn’t sound like that happened for you.

    It is unfortunate that you were traumatised by violence from a young age.

    I’m sorry to hear that your parents didn’t intervene with the bullying at school and you were left to deal with it on your own without emotional support. The amount of stress that you were under to be nauseous every morning…

    You deserved to be supported by your family through your ordeal. It sounds like everyone let you down.

    I hope that you’re feeling better now that you have let these things out. ❤️

    Love, peace and best wishes! ❤️🙏

    #442025
    Jana 🪷
    Participant

    Hello Anita,

    I would like to thank you and Helcat too for two things.

    I realized that this really is not normal, even though I have been told all my life that I am the bad one, because I am the oversensitive one and that it is me who just can’t handle a normal life like others.

    And for your experiences… It is important to share… otherwise everything gets swept under the rug (again). It’s also inspiring to know that you’re fighting for the good… trying to be better and helping others too… because unfortunately there are so many people in the world who have chosen to follow the wrong path destroying themselves and/or others… their motto being: “I suffered, you will suffer, too.”

    I understand my brother’s frustration, anger and resentment towards our parents, but he chose to go down the wrong path. Although I don’t know if he consciously chose this path or if all the things in his life – childhood and forming years – led him there. How much can we really influence? … I was in the dark until recently.

    I remember that I used to be very annoyed by questions: “Why are you shaking?” etc. People noticed of course, but they didn’t even think to address it gently or actively in helping me… rather they used it against me… children laughing at me, bullying me by imitating me, deliberately ignoring me… teachers: “What’s wrong with you?”, “You have to stop shaking.” … those expressions of annoyance on their faces and the gestures like “Jeez, this girl again…” Rolling eyes… I also had this block that I couldn’t speak in front of others. When I was called to come in front of the class and recite, sing, answer some testing questions etc., I just couldn’t speak. My throat got tight, I couldn’t breathe properly, so I just stammered or didn’t speak at all… and I got 5. (the worst mark) You don’t speak = You don’t know… no care that I was obviously under enormous pressure.

    How did you deal with this?

    Have you ever tried to ask your mother (or father… I don’t know if he lived with you, as you rarely mention him) for help? When I did, I just met another form of ignorance. I remember my mom “growl” at me when she was annoyed by me. I wanted to try hypnosis (because I saw that once on TV – they treated people with phobias by hypnosis) and I was simply just chased off that it was nonsense… and no other discussion… as always. It was said and done. Period.

    My mother came to some realization that it wasn’t all right and she needed some reassurance from me that I could forgive her. Which I did. Honestly, I never had any hatred towards her… I just knew I couldn’t rely on her. And I detached from her and got deeper into my inner world. But I feel that she has this conviction inside that it is our fault, that we are the ones causing her problems… She might have realized something, but the fact is that she really didn’t understand the core of the problem, or doesn’t want to… as in your words “it’s easier (..) to ignore a child’s distress than it is to acknowledge and address it…” I would only add here that it is also easier to deny being a part of a child’s problem than to admit it.

    ☀️ 🪷

    #442026
    Jana 🪷
    Participant

    Hello Helcat,

    It’s quite common here that children of different ages are together… in kindergartens, sometimes even at elementary schools. I guess the point is that children should learn to work together, the older teach the younger, etc. But there must be adults who manage the whole group. The clubs were like one big chaos… it was also very difficult for me that everyone was screaming, running around, loud music, lights, … It could be great for extroverted children. But I would have felt much better if I could sit somewhere quietly and read, paint, create…

    “I’m curious how did your mother react when you siblings fought?”

    Honestly, I don’t know. I don’t really remember her being with us and handling it somehow. My older brother sometimes did. But he was good, he never hit us or something like that… It is sometimes really hard to see how such a good handsome boy turned into such an angry and a bit neglected man.

    Are you still in touch with your brother?

    ☀️ 🪷

    #442027
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Jana

    That is crazy. I looked into kindergarten here and it was 10 young children to two adults. I thought that was too little. They were getting the toddlers to help with the babies. For me, I would consider that neglect. Legally it is allowed but I didn’t want my son to be in that situation when he is young and it was insanely expensive. And all of the clubs here a parent has to accompany the child and supervise.

    I know that things have changed some from since I was a child. But not a lot.

    Realistically, the way I see things the only people who are capable of influencing the child’s life are the parents. Teachers, doctors etc can contact social work. But ultimately social work works with the parents and do very little in my country. So unless the child is kicked out by the parents and goes to live with other family members or family friends, there is very little that can be done. Parents have a lot of legal rights over their children. They even retain these rights while children are kicked out. But the process to remove rights can be started at that stage, the child either has to go back to living with the parents or they have to give up their parental rights.

    There is simply nothing that people outside of the family can do other than be kind to the child or report to social work.

    It is a shame that you weren’t treat with the compassion you deserved. It sounds like you didn’t have very good teachers and perhaps the teaching system at the time wasn’t mature. Nowadays, there are allowances for people with speaking anxiety, many people simply don’t get graded on that.

    I was lucky in that I had a couple of very nice teachers who were kind to me. One teacher set up a tent for me to sleep in when I had migraines, so I didn’t have to skip school. I even used to get hugs until they started banning that mid way through elementary school. And some teachers gave students gifts. Colourful gel pens, or sweets, but small things mean a lot.

    And there were nice people in the church who would let me work on their farm. I had a club in the countryside where they used children for manual labour clearing the local castle grounds. I joined the chess club and stayed in the library as much as I could. I chaperoned my brother when he visited friends and vice versa.

    This is what I consider normal treatment. Yes, children are violent at school, but because I moved schools so frequently, I learned to deal with it (they always pick on the new kid). Almost like prison rules, you attack a bully before they attack you. I was largely left alone because they knew I could fight like a boy.

    What I’m trying to say is that you had no safe haven. Very little in the way of kindness. It is very hard to survive in those circumstances. But you still made it! You did the best you could to take care of yourself. It is horrible that you had to do that.

    Your living conditions were TRULY harsh.

    The kindness of others means so much in this world and I probably wouldn’t be here without it.

    I personally think that it is much harder to ignore a child’s suffering than to treat them with kindness and compassion. I was just lucky in that I bumped into some good people.

    That being said, there were uncomfortable things. My teachers didn’t report to social work even when I brought in the photos that had been taken of me. My doctors didn’t report to social work the symptoms of my abuse. One doctor even assaulted me on his last day before his retirement. Social workers, in my opinion are useless and left me to deal with horrific conditions. I know that they still do the same today. I was seriously assaulted by student and had to go to hospital.

    But a good regular kind presence can provide a lot of comfort. I think one of the most beneficial things that can be done to heal is to spend time with good people and create good memories.

    Love, peace and best wishes! ❤️🙏

    #442035
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Jana:

    You are welcome, as always.

    You wrote (I am adding big case letters to this quote and the next quote): “I have been told all my life that I am THE BAD ONE, because I am the oversensitive one and that it is me who just can’t handle a normal life like others”.

    I reread your posts this morning since Nov. You wrote back then in regard to your mother: “She is A GOOD PERSON, we had everything we needed – food, clothes, … and mostly what we wanted – toys etc… When I tried to tell her about what happened to me or my social phobia… she either got mad at me (‘Could you stop it?!’ … ‘Could you just leave me alone for a while?!’)… no discussion, no understanding, no words of comfort from her… I wonder why her words affected me more when my dad’s words were so kind. Why do we listen, hear those BAD PEOPLE more than the good ones in our lives?”-

    – Isn’t it amazing that without noticing it (seems to me), you referred to your mother right above as a bad person (one of the “bad people”)?

    Her emotional detachment, expressed moodiness and Irritability with you when you approached her for emotional support, her dismissive responses, her criticisms and belittling of your concerns, and her lack of empathy for you (failing to show empathy or understanding towards your struggles, both emotional and social)- all these, repeated and consistent, have caused you to suffer, added to your suffering, and/or didn’t take away from your suffering, so no wonder you’d think of her- without noticing that you did (I think)- as a bad person in this context.

    In other contexts, you evaluate her as a good person: she worked hard to ensure that her children had food, clothes, toys, and other necessities despite significant challenges and personal struggles, had good intentions toward her children’s physical well-being, and showed some (limited) awareness of her shortcomings and sought forgiveness from you.

    In some cultures or generations, there is a parental emphasis on providing for physical needs, while emotional needs are undervalued or overlooked. This can lead to parents believing that as long as they provide food, shelter, and education, they are fulfilling their parental duties. Parents often model their behavior on how they were raised. If their own parents did not provide emotional support, they may lack the awareness or skills to do so for their own children. Some parents struggle with their own emotional issues, such as depression, anxiety, or unresolved trauma, which can make it difficult for them to connect emotionally with their children.

    Parents who are overwhelmed by their own responsibilities, such as work, financial stress, or raising multiple children, may find it difficult to provide emotional support: they may prioritize immediate physical needs over emotional nurturing due to time and energy constraints. In environments with financial hardship, parents are focused on ensuring basic survival needs are met, and emotional support may take a backseat.

    Some parents are fully aware of the importance of physical nourishment but are not fully aware of the importance of emotional nourishment and its impact on a child’s development. There are parents who use denial as a defense mechanisms to cope with their own shortcomings: admitting they are failing to provide emotional support can be painful, so they choose to ignore or minimize the issue.

    But all these explanations are of no use to a child who is suffering from.. emotional starvation, I’d call it. A child starves because of lack of empathy and emotional support, regardless of the reasons.

    “I don’t even mention in front of my family that I feel spiritual connection to Buddhism because I would face a lot of criticism, rolling eyes and skeptical remarks… My mom usually chased away my spiritual imagination by saying that it was non sense… The only person who has ever told me he likes my personality is my boyfriend… It seems to me that our parents had kids… and then they were like ‘Okay… so go and live.’ Who cares. But… even cats teach their kittens how to hunt… I grew up alone, with no guidance, no support, no interest… and I was left that way for a very long time…

    “Growing up, I felt that there was either a lack of interest or rejection/ belittling of my troubles. So, I gave up. I realized that I was simply alone… I remember my mom “growl” at me when she was annoyed by me. I wanted to try hypnosis (because I saw that once on TV – they treated people with phobias by hypnosis) and I was simply just chased off that it was nonsense… and no other discussion… as always. It was said and done. Period…

    Today: “I never had any hatred towards her… I just knew I couldn’t rely on her. And I detached from her and got deeper into my inner world. But I feel that she has this conviction inside that it is our fault, that we are the ones causing her problems… as in your words ‘it’s easier (..) to ignore a child’s distress than it is to acknowledge and address it…’ I would only add here that it is also easier to deny being a part of a child’s problem than to admit it.”-

    – like I said before, her reasons (her own childhood, her struggles) don’t matter when it comes to how she affected you, but what does matter in regard to her reasons is that you, Jana- you were not the reason for her lack of emotional support, criticisms, belittling, etc.

    “I understand my brother’s frustration, anger and resentment towards our parents, but he chose to go down the wrong path. Although I don’t know if he consciously chose this path or if all the things in his life – childhood and forming years – led him there. How much can we really influence? … I was in the dark until recently”-

    – When people are fueled by intense emotions like pain and anger, their decisions often resemble reactions rather than deliberate choices. Reactions are often automatic and driven by emotional triggers. They are immediate, impulsive, without fully considering the consequences of their actions. These impulsive actions are more reactive and less reflective of thoughtful decision-making.

    Genuine choices involve a degree of awareness and reflection where the person considers various options and potential outcomes before deciding. When awareness is lacking, the line between a choice and a reaction becomes blurred. However, when individuals gain insight and reflect on their behaviors, they move closer to making conscious and intentional choices.

    When emotions like pain and anger take over, the rational part of the brain is bypassed, leading to reactive behaviors. Destructive behaviors fueled by pain and anger often start as reactions— immediate and emotional responses to distressing stimuli. Over time, if these reactions become habitual, they may appear as choices, even though they lack the deliberate thought process associated with genuine choices.

    “I remember that I used to be very annoyed by questions: ‘Why are you shaking?’ etc. People noticed of course, but they didn’t even think to address it gently or actively in helping me… rather they used it against me… children laughing at me, bullying me by imitating me, deliberately ignoring me… How did you deal with this?”- I can very much relate. I know I was made fun of, I was ignored, it felt terrible, but I don’t have memories of events and interactions from my childhood and adolescence. All of my childhood-adolescence memories, if I played them in my head like a movie, would last 10 minutes maybe (I didn’t time it, lol).

    “Have you ever tried to ask your mother (or father… I don’t know if he lived with you, as you rarely mention him) for help?”- In regard to my father, I have only one memory of him before their divorce, and it was a traumatic memory. I was about 5 at the time, it was nighttime, they had a physical fight, my mother ran to the street right after threatening to kill herself, etc. After their divorce he visited but almost all of his time visiting, my mother was talking to him while I just sat there.

    In regard to asking my mother for help, that would have been strange: to ask her to protect me from herself- because she was my main source of pain and trauma. No one, no person in my life (and there were selfish, bad people in my life) has hurt me as much as she did, not even close. For one, at 5 or 6 or (don’t remember) I stopped going out and spent my time either with her or alone(while she was working), so my social life was extremely limited.

    I appreciate our conversation, Jana. because of you I understand myself better. We were both victims, as sadly, so many children are, but as I see it, our journeys are from Victims to Victors!

    anita

    #442049
    Jana 🪷
    Participant

    Hello Helcat,

    yes, I know this “prison rule” from my boyfriend: “You have to identify the leader of the group of bullies and knock him/her out.”

    You are brave! You had to take on the role of protector.

    I was never brave. I couldn’t fight. Even though I loved being outside, running around the wood, climbing trees, building little small houses from sticks, playing with animals, … I was and always have been a tender girl/woman. I just can’t hit someone. I’ve always hated arguing or loud exchange of opinions. I am very slow to act and react… and when I am “surprised” by someone angry, I just stare… my brain is suddenly shut down… And I was like that as a child, too. I never knew how to protect myself verbally. Let alone physically. The best strategy was to be alone. Being alone meant being safe.

    The elementary school, the children and the teachers at this school were one long nightmare. Everything improved a bit at high school… well at least with regard to having some good friends. However, my “alcohol career” started and it wasn’t nice, either. From 16 to cca 25/26 I worked in a pub where there were a lot of unhappy people, alcoholics, gamblers, drug-users… It was wild! I basically had to drink to put up with all of the suffereing I witnessed. I saw people being at their lowest point of life… and it was dark… sad and so lonely.

    My life was a treadmill then. And when my granny passed away and I had to put my doggy down (my little buddy ❤️) because she was very ill, it was like these dark chapters of my life were finally closed and sealed for good… I substituted a technical English teacher for one foundry worker… and that man later became my boyfriend… since then my life just got better and better… I finally feel accepted, loved, respected… I can live in a house in the woods, have pets and explore my spiritual part. All my little dreams came true.

    I think it’s good to experience even very difficult times. Hard times enrich us (if we let them). I don’t see my life as something that messed me up. It did influence me – I still do not trust people, I expect people turning against me and I need my freedom to feel happy and safe. These patterns sometimes influence my life negatively, as in my working life, but I am working on it. I am thinking that I can use work opportunities which match my patterns… maybe in this case I am just look in the wrong direction.

    I’m glad you see things on the bright side. You had many very traumatic experiences in your life. It’s great that you didn’t give up on people because you remember the good ones in your life.

    I am not sure how OSPOD (social workers here) exactly work here, what they can do… but as a parent you cannot kick out your child. You could go to prison for a child neglect. You can end up in prison also for not paying alimony. I know a woman who refused to pay alimony to her ex husband and she spent three years in prison for that.

    ☀️ 🪷

    #442050
    Jana 🪷
    Participant

    Hello Anita,

    I do not have enough time to go through your post more carefully now. I need to leave now. I will reply properly later. However, what do you mean by “Isn’t it amazing that without noticing it (seems to me), you referred to your mother right above as a bad person (one of the “bad people”)?”

    😊 ☀️

    ☀️ 🪷

    #442059
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Jana:

    “what do you mean by ‘Isn’t it amazing that without noticing it (seems to me), you referred to your mother right above as a bad person…’”- you boldfaced the word “amazing”. (By the way, I used to be able to boldface and italicize words in my posts for tiny buddha but these features disappeared for me one day, and I don’t know why).

    When I used “amazing,” I meant that it’s intriguing, fascinating how our subconscious thoughts can reveal truths we might not be fully aware of. Your initial statement about your mother being a “good person” contrasted with your later reflection on her hurtful reactions. This contrast is significant and worth exploring, as it shows the complexity of our relationships and emotions.

    The word “amazing” is typically used to describe something that causes great surprise or wonder, something that is either positive and pleasurable (e.g., “The sunset over the mountains was amazing.”), or something that is negative and unpleasurable (e.g., “It was amazing how quickly the storm came in”).

    The key aspect of the word is the intensity of the reaction—something that is amazing captures the attention and stands out as remarkable.

    In the context of my message to you, I used “amazing” to highlight the surprising and noteworthy observation about your subconscious thoughts, without implying any delight or enjoyment in your challenges. I deeply empathize with your situation and respect the complexity of your emotions and relationships. I hope this helps to clear up any misunderstanding. Looking forward to reading more from you when you have time.

    anita

    #442069
    Jana 🪷
    Participant

    Hello Anita again!

    It is an interesting thought.

    In my eyes my mother is not a bad person. The reason I believe so is that I am convinced that she never really intended to hurt me. That’s important. It wasn’t her goal to see me suffer. (bold to emphasis)

    My mom’s biggest problem is her nature. She is choleric. Hot-headed. Grumpy. So easily irritated. She reacts impulsively without thinking carefully. And she got me … slow, quiet, thoughtful… I do believe that she might have had some resentment towards me, because she couldn’t stand me. It is not true that opposites attract, opposites got on each other’s nerves, I would say.

    Most of her reactions, words directed to me were an outburst of her impatience connected to her choleric nature. And it is not good for a child at all. I think such mothers should definitely practice meditation to find more patience and awareness of how they react, because such reactions can be terribly misunderstood and painful for the child.

    I do think today that ignoring emotional needs and serious problems such as social phobia is a form of neglect, which I haven’t realized until recently. This shouldn’t happen. I was very desperate. I didn’t know what was happening to me and why. Let alone how to solve it. I was too small to deal with this all alone. And it took ages in my mind. But I am a peacemaker. I am not able to hold grudge or hatred in my heart. I know that it only hurts me. I have to live with my mind, with my thoughts, my feelings and emotions… Everything turns to be only worse when people get bitter because of the past…

    I honestly never held an idea in my heart that my mom is a bad person to be blamed for my problems. But today I acknowledge that my mom and my dad too have a share in my problems. However, I don’t have a need to discuss it with them. We have a nice relationship today and I don’t need their validation… I bellieve that our conversation helped me especially in my internal validation… that’s what I needed a lot.

    I am a good person who managed to survive very hard times… kindness and sensitivity are strengths not weaknesses… and my life is proof of that.

    “In regard to asking my mother for help, that would have been strange: to ask her to protect me from herself- because she was my main source of pain and trauma. No one, no person in my life (and there were selfish, bad people in my life) has hurt me as much as she did, not even close.”

    Your mom was a bad person, because she intended to hurt you. Your story is very special and I would like to thank you for sharing it. It is important to see different stories. Sharing helps understanding. ***POSSIBLE TRIGGER*** If you feel comfortable sharing your thoughts and feelings. (Please ignore this, if you don’t) I was wondering: How do you feel about your relationship with your mother today? From your posts, it seems to me that you are at last free of her. 🙏 🤗

    ☀️ 🪷

    #442070
    Jana 🪷
    Participant

    Oh, please, ignore the bold text.

    ☀️ 🪷

    #442071
    Jana 🪷
    Participant

    bold was only word “intended”.

    ☀️ 🪷

    #442073
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Jana:

    No problem with the bold feature in your post. I don’t understand though why I can no longer use the feature in my posts, using my computer.

    You make a very valid point, in regard to intent, something I became aware of only recently, when I remembered, for the first time in my life, that she enjoyed hurting me. I suppose such memory was too threatening to have earlier. I remembered that right after she sent some shaming “bullet” my way, she looked at me with this part-smile an excitement, waiting for her bullet to hit me, anticipating- with pleasure- to see the pain registering on my face.

    “How do you feel about your relationship with your mother today? From your posts, it seems to me that you are at last free of her.”- I am in no contact whatsoever with her ever since Jan 2014 (11 years ago!) when In sent her a message- through my sister- that I love her. Last time I talked to her was on the phone, summer of 2013.

    Am I free of her? Partly, significantly, yes. It’s a process that continues way after having no-contact, a process for which no-contact is necessary. It feels too traumatic to imagine contact with her. The extent and depth of damage she has cased me has been just.. too much. The image of her face, the sound of her voice would be enough to overwhelm me and make me very sick all over again.

    In regard to your mother, I appreciate how you recognize that your mother’s actions were influenced by her nature rather than a desire or intent to hurt you. Your insight into the challenges of having a choleric, impulsive mother and your own sensitive, thoughtful nature highlights the difficulties you faced as a child.

    Your acknowledgment of emotional neglect and its impact on your social phobia is significant. It’s brave of you to face these realizations and to understand that you deserved better care and support as a child.

    I’m glad to read that our conversation has helped you with internal validation. It’s empowering to recognize that your kindness and sensitivity are strengths, not weaknesses. Your life is indeed a testament to your resilience and good heart.

    Regarding your relationship with your mother today, it’s wonderful that you have reached a place where you have a nice relationship and don’t need validation from her. You found a way to coexist peacefully while acknowledging the past without letting it define you.

    Your story and the way you process your experiences can inspire others to seek understanding and healing. Thank you for being open to sharing your journey.

    anita

    #442075
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Jana

    I wasn’t being brave. I just wasn’t afraid of children because I was used to being beaten at home by someone much larger than me. I was so used to it that being hit didn’t phase me.

    I don’t like conflict either. It stresses me out. It was just a necessity.

    In regards to my brother. We lost touch when I was 15. I chose to not go home and go through an informal adoption and he chose to return to our biological mother. He was a stubborn and angry child. He would make our Mother angry by refusing to give up when being beaten.

    She actively pit us against each other. She told him she hated him and she told me she loved me. The truth was that she didn’t love either of us.

    He became violent as he got older. Got into a lot of fights. Started hitting me. Last I heard of him he stalked his ex so badly she fled the country.

    Is your nice brother who turned out angry the same person as the one who drinks?

    Like you, I went through a drinking phase. It starts very young here at 13 and I stopped in my 20s as well.

    It is good that you had the wisdom to see the pain and suffering that alcohol and drugs brought.

    Yes, I believe that life teaches us things.

    I’m glad that your life turned around. If anyone deserves a happy ending it is you. 😊

    I did give up on people for a few years after I was sexually assaulted by one of my friends in university. I developed a phobia of men. Which was unfortunate because most of my friends were men. And because I was in STEM most of my classmates were men. Therapy helped me to come out of my shell a bit. But I never really regained trust in people after that. I learned that people you trust are the ones who can hurt you the most. So I have some trust issues. But I am fortunate to have some good people in my life.

    It is interesting to hear of the difference between countries.

    Love, peace and best wishes! ❤️🙏

    #442662
    Jana 🪷
    Participant

    Hello! I need a few days offline. I’ll come back later next week and answer properly. 😊 ☀️

    P.S.: I hope, Helcat, that you will return! We’ll miss you much. ❤️

    ☀️ 🪷

    #442667
    anita
    Participant

    Thank you for the note, Jana. I wish you a good rest of the week & weekend and… Love, peace and best wishes! ❤️🙏

    anita

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