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  • #391355
    meliss
    Participant

    It’s funny but, just as you were writing me you don’t want to do it anymore, I was writing instructions to deal with the situation(I was thinking about it all night because I do want to communicate via email.  I was thinking about it last night.  If you would’ve waited a few minutes, you would have seen me working on the problem.  I understand this is frustrating but…I will copy paste the email I sent on Tuesday to you, so you know that it really is just techinical difficulties not my hesitation.

    Email is below

    -quoted-begin”>On Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 8:43 PM, M. S.

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    <div dir=”ltr”> Hi Anita,<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />I’ve been kind of waiting for your response to my last post. Not hearing from you got me thinking, and now I feel I may have done something to make you not want to write to me anymore. I guess I got used to the way we communicated on Tiny Buddha so I’m …I don’t know. I will address each thing I think I did to change the course of our interaction.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />1.) I think maybe you read in my last post where I said I wanted to communicate weekly. Maybe that’s why you haven’t responded yet. I actually miss hearing from you regularly (which is uncomfortable for me…that emotion). In my post, I was trying to be responsible. I didn’t want you to think I would use writing to you as an excuse not to handle responsibilities (dealing with F). Anyway, I like when you respond to me and let me know when you intend to respond. I like writing to you too. In my post, I was thinking ahead and I wanted you to know that I could commit to writing at least once a week no matter what the circumstances as to reassure you that I wouldn’t disappear or stop writing. I worried too about how I would manage my time and emotions as I think we would write about deep stuff -meaning there would be times I wouldn’t be able to write as often as I would like, but I would be committed to our interaction. I also wanted you to know I wouldn’t pressure you to write to me…I hope that makes sense. I was dealing with a problem that hadn’t happened yet.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />but I still want to stay in the supportive(?) context we had…So, I hope we can continue writing like before<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />2.) When we communicated on Monday regarding the whole process of switching to email, I was responding via my phone and I was at work, so my responses on Tiny Buddha were kind of curt. So, I may have given the impression that I wasn’t too excited about communicating via email anymore…which wasn’t the case. I’ll explain below.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />I didn’t think that you would say yes to my email request. I really thought you had made up your mind that you would only email me if Tiny Buddha shut down. After you said yes, I was really happy and then I had a panic/fear based reaction. It came out of nowhere. I was just so scared. I think I was fearful of what I did…(I had a scary situation with someone I once wrote to that turned into a hacker situation and all of that came up and I panicked).<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />I did reread our posts(I printed them all out) and then I realized you’ve been nothing but thoughtful to me and I calmed down. If I came across, cold maybe, that was why. Also, I’m not used to communicating with people so openly. I’ve been more open to you about my inner world than anyone. Even though I haven’t share a lot I guess, for me it’s a lot. A part of me feels its best to stay guarded.  Exchanging emails isn’t being guarded, hence the panic, which just happened out of nowhere.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />If you’re just busy and haven’t gotten to me yet. I understand. There are a lot of people on TB with big problems. Maybe it’s not as easy for you to respond the same way in email? Either way, I can be patient and wait until you have time. However, if it’s because of me, I didn’t mean to communicate disinterest in continued communication.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />You said, “Good thing, I am glad, I feel good about it!!!” I didn’t know I would feel good about it but I do,” I was happy that you felt good about it but my fear was a little stronger when first I read those words. I now want you to know that I liked that you felt good about communicating with me. It was nice to read as (outside of my fear), I was happy that someone whom I really respect wanted to write to me.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />I guess I think people can only like me for a little while or if they don’t know me well and my panic was about that too.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />I’ve been feeling a little bad about this.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />I wanted us to write for a long time….I imagined asking you advice about life stuff.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />But if you don’t want to write to me anymore, please let me know.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />PS. If you’re worried about all the God talk in my previous post, I don’t push my beliefs on others and I definitely wouldn’t do that to you. I just shared because you asked(as He’s a part of all of my serendipity moments). No, you blocking my email was not my kind of serendipity. I wondered if you unconsciously didn’t want to write to me, if it was a sign. I decided, however, that I was reading into it. But when you’re scared, everything is possible.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />It could be too, that I am just overreacting and anxious until I find out how to communicate with you here.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />I hope you’ve been sleeping better and you got your truck fixed. What helps when I can’t sleep is a “sounds of nature” app on my phone. I listen to waves and whale sounds. If you want to know more, please let me know.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />Please be patient with me.<br clear=”none” /> <br clear=”none” />m<br clear=”none” /><br clear=”none” />_________________________________________________________</div>
    <div dir=”ltr”>You see, I do want to email with you. I really do.  I was working diligently on the problem.  If I didn’t I wouldn’t have stayed up all night. On your other post, I wrote solutions. Do you still feel the same with the new information?</div>

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    • This topic was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by meliss.
    #391358
    meliss
    Participant

    Rewriting above post because it looks weird

     

    It’s funny but, just as you were writing me you don’t want to do it anymore, I was writing instructions to deal with the situation(I was thinking about it all night because I do want to communicate via email).  I was thinking about it last night.  If you would’ve waited a few minutes, you would have seen me working on the problem.  I understand this is frustrating but…I will copy paste the email I sent on Tuesday to you, so you know that it really is just techinical difficulties not my hesitation.

    Email below

    On Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 8:43 PM, M. S. <blueblue*************************> wrote:

    Hi Anita,

    I’ve been kind of waiting for your response to my last post. Not hearing from you got me thinking, and now I feel I may have done something to make you not want to write to me anymore. I guess I got used to the way we communicated on Tiny Buddha so I’m …I don’t know. I will address each thing I think I did to change the course of our interaction.

    1.) I think maybe you read in my last post where I said I wanted to communicate weekly. Maybe that’s why you haven’t responded yet. I actually miss hearing from you regularly (which is uncomfortable for me…that emotion). In my post, I was trying to be responsible. I didn’t want you to think I would use writing to you as an excuse not to handle responsibilities (dealing with F). Anyway, I like when you respond to me and let me know when you intend to respond. I like writing to you too. In my post, I was thinking ahead and I wanted you to know that I could commit to writing at least once a week no matter what the circumstances as to reassure you that I wouldn’t disappear or stop writing. I worried too about how I would manage my time and emotions as I think we would write about deep stuff -meaning there would be times I wouldn’t be able to write as often as I would like, but I would be committed to our interaction. I also wanted you to know I wouldn’t pressure you to write to me…I hope that makes sense. I was dealing with a problem that hadn’t happened yet.

    but I still want to stay in the supportive(?) context we had…So, I hope we can continue writing like before

    2.) When we communicated on Monday regarding the whole process of switching to email, I was responding via my phone and I was at work, so my responses on Tiny Buddha were kind of curt. So, I may have given the impression that I wasn’t too excited about communicating via email anymore…which wasn’t the case. I’ll explain below.

    I didn’t think that you would say yes to my email request. I really thought you had made up your mind that you would only email me if Tiny Buddha shut down. After you said yes, I was really happy and then I had a panic/fear based reaction. It came out of nowhere. I was just so scared. I think I was fearful of what I did…(I had a scary situation with someone I once wrote to that turned into a hacker situation and all of that came up and I panicked).

    I did reread our posts(I printed them all out) and then I realized you’ve been nothing but thoughtful to me and I calmed down. If I came across, cold maybe, that was why. Also, I’m not used to communicating with people so openly. I’ve been more open to you about my inner world than anyone. Even though I haven’t share a lot I guess, for me it’s a lot. A part of me feels its best to stay guarded.  Exchanging emails isn’t being guarded, hence the panic, which just happened out of nowhere.

    If you’re just busy and haven’t gotten to me yet. I understand. There are a lot of people on TB with big problems. Maybe it’s not as easy for you to respond the same way in email? Either way, I can be patient and wait until you have time. However, if it’s because of me, I didn’t mean to communicate disinterest in continued communication.

    You said, “Good thing, I am glad, I feel good about it!!!” I didn’t know I would feel good about it but I do,” I was happy that you felt good about it but my fear was a little stronger when first I read those words. I now want you to know that I liked that you felt good about communicating with me. It was nice to read as (outside of my fear), I was happy that someone whom I really respect wanted to write to me.

    I guess I think people can only like me for a little while or if they don’t know me well and my panic was about that too.

    I’ve been feeling a little bad about this.

    I wanted us to write for a long time….I imagined asking you advice about life stuff.

    But if you don’t want to write to me anymore, please let me know.

    PS. If you’re worried about all the God talk in my previous post, I don’t push my beliefs on others and I definitely wouldn’t do that to you. I just shared because you asked(as He’s a part of all of my serendipity moments). No, you blocking my email was not my kind of serendipity. I wondered if you unconsciously didn’t want to write to me, if it was a sign. I decided, however, that I was reading into it. But when you’re scared, everything is possible.

    It could be too, that I am just overreacting and anxious until I find out how to communicate with you here.

    I hope you’ve been sleeping better and you got your truck fixed. What helps when I can’t sleep is a “sounds of nature” app on my phone. I listen to waves and whale sounds. If you want to know more, please let me know.

    Please be patient with me.

    m

    This was what I wrote in the beginning when I thought you were angry at me.

    Do you still not want to try communicating via email?  I was really hurt when I thought you were blocking me so that must mean something, right?

    I’m interested in your thoughts.

     

    #391359
    meliss
    Participant

    PS.  My feelings were nervous about it(just cause it was new) but my actions have been consistent in trying to reach you and fix the problem. I wanted to email you and my actions have shown that.

    I sent emails, I tried to start a post, mostly apologizing because I thought you were angry, sent two posts directed to you which were stuck in moderation, and I sent a final email which disappeared.  I have been trying.  Please understand that my intent was to email you but I thought maybe I forced you and you changed your mind.  But you since let me know, you weren’t getting anything from me.

    Please trust my actions as my feelings are based on thoughts that sometimes are not connected to truth.

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by meliss.
    #391364
    anita
    Participant

    Dear meliss:

    I will start with your last sentence: “Please trust my actions as my feelings are based on thoughts that sometimes are not connected to truth” -I very much trust this fact. I suggested to you before that you’ve been projecting your father (F), and perhaps “her” (I assume you were referring to your mother) into other people. You rejected my suggestion, but I have no doubt that my suggestion is true a lot of the times. One of these times is a week ago, when you panicked about the idea that I will hack your email account even though (1) I repeatedly told you that my computer skills are very poor, and (2) it was you who initiated the idea of exchanging emails and insisted on it.

    The definition of a hacker is: “a person who uses computers to gain unauthorized access to data“. Who is the hacker in your life, who is the one who has unauthorized access to you?

    Is it not the man climbing up the stairs in the morning so to harass you outside your bedroom, using the information that he has about you- against you? Is it not the man who insults you for hours and days, on and on and on?

    I didn’t think that you would say yes to my email request… After you said yes, I was really happy and then I had a panic/fear-based reaction. It came out of nowhere” -it came out of someplace and that place is your experience with F (and maybe with “her” as well), inaccurately projected into me.

    I was just so scared. I think I was fearful of what I did… (I had a scary situation with someone I once wrote to that turned into a hacker situation and all of that came up and I panicked)” – I know that there are real-life computer hackers out there, it is very unfortunate.

    If I came across, cold maybe, that was why” – you turned cold because you thought I intended to hack your email account. When you posted in the thread you deleted, you were afraid that anyone reading it may hurt you. When I gave you my email, you were afraid that I will hurt you.

    Wikipedia on Paranoia: “Paranoia is an instinct or thought process that is believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear often to the point of delusion and irrationality. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself (i.e., ‘Everyone is out to get me’… Making false accusations and the general distrust of other people also frequently accompany paranoia” –

    – I was a victim of my mother’s paranoid thinking. She distrusted me when I was a young child. She believed that I was trying to hurt her. She repeatedly accused me of that and punished me for it.

    I did reread our posts (I printed them all out) and then I realized you’ve been nothing but thoughtful to me and I calmed down” – How long before you distrust me again? How long before you distrust any reader, fearing that he/ she wants to hurt you?

    Also, I’m not used to communicating with people so openly. I’ve been more open to you about my inner world than anyone. Even though I haven’t shared a lot I guess, for me it’s a lot. A part of me feels it’s best to stay guarded” – It is a compliment to me, that you chose to share your inner world with me.

    “I now want you to know that I liked that you felt good about communicating with me” -thank you.

    Do you still not want to try communicating via email?” – no. I do not want to communicate with you via email. I was clear about it in my last post to you, on my thread.

    I think people can only like me for a little while or if they don’t know me well and my panic was about that too…. Please be patient with me” – I will be patient with you. I want you to share with me more about your inner world, but I am aware that you feel unsafe about doing it in any context: public forums, private emails… and in any other context. Even if you and I were alone in a room.

    I was really hurt when I thought you were blocking me so that must mean something, right?” – what may it mean?

    anita

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by anita.
    #391478
    meliss
    Participant

    hi anita,

    First, I hear you that you do not want to email anymore and I respect your boundary.  It was never my intent to make you feel pressured.  At one time, you said “there was a possibility of us both agreeing that it would be a good idea to exchange emails in the future,(pretty exact quote)” I replied, “I like that there is a possibility.” I was ready to let it go.  Then you said, “…but I am tempted to offer you to be my pen pals by email if it would make you feel better long-term…” You then shared a couple of experiences you had and reasons why you thought it would turn out poorly.  I thought you wanted to email me but had reservations.  That’s when I actively tried to show you that our email exchange didn’t have to be like the ones you experienced before.  I certainly did not mean to pressure you and I am so sorry you felt pressured.  It really was not my intention.  I repeatedly said I would respect your no but I guess that did not come across?  Either way, I am sincerely sorry I pressured you.

    On Projection:

    One of these times is a week ago, when you panicked about the idea that I will hack your email account even though (1) I repeatedly told you that my computer skills are very poor, and (2) it was you who initiated the idea of exchanging emails and insisted on it. – How do I explain this?  I did not think that you would hack my email account.  After you shared your email address with me, I felt anxious in my body.  The experience reminded me of a situation a few years back when I actually was hacked (It wasn’t me being paranoid; I actually had strangers come up to me on the street telling me they saw this or that about me online). It was a very difficult time for me.  So, I had an anxious reaction.  It’s like if someone was raped.  Years later, in a romantic situation, they may be with a good man, however their body might have anxious feelings even if they know the person before them is good.  I knew you wouldn’t hack my email.  I was just reminded of a situation and that made me tense. I recognized it. I took steps to calm my emotions and continued with the action of sending you an email because I did think you were trustworthy in this way. I gave you my real email addresses(If I thought you were untrustworthy or going to hack me, I would’ve created an email just for you or not wanted to email you at all). I hope that makes sense.  I honestly thought that once we got past my blocked email, everything would be fine.

    I think this is hard because when I share something…I feel you put me in a box…You’ve already decided that I’m paranoid?

    Cold?  Was I?  Did you experience me as cold?  I ask because one of the things that I do is to speculate as to why someone may be mad at me(or why you hadn’t responded to me) and I offer excuses before the person tells me there is a problem.  When I didn’t hear from you, I started to worry.  I wondered if you did feel pressured (before I even read you last post in your thread), I wondered if I was cold and tried to explain.  It’s just like when I explained my “god serendipity” moments.  I was explaining why I wouldn’t push my beliefs on you even though you never once said you were offended.  You see _ I didn’t know why I didn’t hear from you so I was covering my bases.  I think you focused on the “cold” example because it fits your views about me.

    Your biggest problem in relating to me would’ve been me thinking I offended you in some way and apologizing or explaining things that you might not have even been thinking about. I worry I offend others a lot (I think with time that goes away when I see a person isn’t easily offended-like one person I know for years-one of the people I mentioned in earlier posts- I don’t really worry about offending her, as over time I saw she’ll tell me if I did something and when I did address things(politely not angrily), she’ll say no that’s not what I’m thinking.  So I don’t have that worry-based reaction with her.  Seeing a person’s consistency over time makes me less nervous about accidentally offending, etc.  I’m just getting to know you…)

    I have to learn conversation is a two-way street.  Ask the questions and wait for a reply.  I just try to explain myself too much, before it’s necessary.

     I will be patient with you. I want you to share with me more about your inner world, but I am aware that you feel unsafe about doing it in any context: public forums, private emails… and in any other context. Even if you and I were alone in a room. – You don’t understand what I mean.  I feel anxious because I am stepping out of my comfort zone.  It’s not about whether you or anyone is trustworthy in this instance, it’s about me communicating in a way I haven’t before.   My mouth will get dry, I’ll get butterflies, I’ll be nervous.  I’ll worry about your response, I’ll worry if you’ll get it.  Not psychological diagnosis nervous, not paranoid, just growing pains.  Does that make sense?  It’s not about me feeling unsafe as if I’m in danger.  It’s just I would have been communicating my inner world, my possibly traumatic past with you, of course I’m nervous.  I chose you because I’d seen you in the forums so I was willing to take the risk(it’s  always a risk communicating with someone because you can’t know fully what will happen) Based on what I saw, I was thinking that the risk was worth it and there was a high probability that communicating with you would benefit me in the long run.  But the nervous feeling, it’s more of a growing, stretching, stepping out of your comfort zone, kind of feeling: I think it’s normal and natural.  I don’t think I crossed the line into paranoia yet.

    So yes, if you and I were alone in a room communicating,(or emailing or whatever) I would feel nervous at first, because I’d be learning about you, because of what I had hoped to share with you about and to get your feedback about, and because I would have been choosing growth. With time and consistency, I am sure that the nervous feeling would go away. What I mean is growing is never comfortable at first.

    And I feel nervous about lots of things, things most people probably don’t even blink at, but it’s me. What can I say?  I do try not to make it a problem for other people if I have to interact with them.

     “I was really hurt when I thought you were blocking me so that must mean something, right?” what may it mean?  I think I might have meant I was invested in our interaction.  On my end, I had no idea what happened.  We had just confirmed that you got an email and then silence. I tried to send and email and ask if something was wrong—which would have been the healthy things to do(the name of the email was ‘are you angry at me?”).  No response. I sent posts that Tiny Buddha blocked(I wondered if you thought I was a hacker because you felt pressured and you told TB about me…I think one day it’ll be funny).

    I was so sad.  I felt bad that you didn’t write to me and I felt worse that I might have done something to really offend or hurt you…and I couldn’t reach you.  The last email I sent this morning (the one that disappeared)said I was sorry for whatever I did and that I hope you’ll be able to forgive me…I said I wish you would have told me you didn’t want to write anymore instead of just throwing me away, that I would have respected your decision(at this point I didn’t know you weren’t getting my communication and I thought I must have done something really wrong-not that you did something wrong, and I was upset at myself).  I said goodbye and that I wished you well and continued healing.

    I worked really hard to fix the situation even up to right before your post this morning…so yeah, I was invested.

     Anyway, I won’t forget when you told me that the lady who told me F’s words to me were only words was wrong.  That meant something to me.

    m

     

     

     

    #391486
    anita
    Participant

    Dear meliss:

    Again, I will start with your last part of your message: “I won’t forget when you told me that the lady who told me F’s words to me were only words was wrong.  That meant something to me” – I wish I could let you know how much I know that his words were never “only words“. I know how powerful the words of a parent are, especially the words of the good parent. For you, the woman who deserved no more than the reference of the pronoun “her”, was the bad parent of the two, and F was the good parent of the two, deserving your reference of “my father” and “my dad”, so his words have always mattered a whole lot.

    At one time, you said “there was a possibility of us both agreeing that it would be a good idea to exchange emails”– yes, this is after I told you that I do not want to exchange emails, following which you started putting pressure on me. What you quoted here is me starting to give in to the pressure, best I remember.

    Cold?  Was I?  Did you experience me as cold?” – definitely at times, the one most memorable is when I wrote to you, in regard to your very, very… very  abusive father: ” Isn’t it sad that I, a person you first communicated with only five days ago, a person you never met in-person, cares more about you than your father whom you’ve been with in-person for 46 years?”, and you answered: While I do appreciate your responses and you taking the time to read, write and in some instances, validating my experiences, I really wouldn’t describe you as someone who cared about me…  I honestly don’t think it’s a fair comparison“.

    I really wouldn’t describe you as someone who cared about me” feels cold to me.

    anita

    #391489
    anita
    Participant

    * I just noticed that I included a quote in my email above that includes your age, I apologize, I know that mentioning your age rubs you the wrong way, I copied and pasted a quote from you that included your age, not thinking about the effect it has on you.

    anita

    #391500
    meliss
    Participant

    hi anita,

    * I just noticed that I included a quote in my email above that includes your age, I apologize, I know that mentioning your age rubs you the wrong way, I copied and pasted a quote from you that included your age, not thinking about the effect it has on you. – I accept your apology.  It was nice of you to acknowledge my feelings, and to make a post letting me know you didn’t forget our discussion.  I didn’t notice it, to be honest. But it was nice that you remembered, that you took my communication about that to heart.  Thank you.

     

    I wish I could let you know how much I know that his words were never “only words“. – Again, thank you.  For a small while, it felt like, it’s not just me-that someone else can see.  So, I won’t forget that.

    “I really wouldn’t describe you as someone who cared about me” feels cold to me. –Your reaction is fair.  Before I address it, I want to say:

    In my previous post when I talked about possibly being cold (or curt), I meant as it related to our exchanges when we were trying to exchange emails.  That Monday, I was communicating from my phone, I was at work.  I gave short curt questions or answers. I was not as responsive as I felt I should’ve been.  You gave a little small talk and exchanges in your responses (like saying this wasn’t my kind of serendipity or saying you were thrilled when the email finally worked) and I didn’t respond properly.  It was in the back of my mind to go back and respond but on that day, I was purely functional.  That’s one of the things I imagined I did wrong.

    As for the above, I think we had been writing for 2 or 3 days-maybe a week.  I don’t think a stranger could care about me in that amount of time.  I did appreciate your time and compassion.  I still do. I thought that F was mean, but if I went to the hospital, he would try to see me, you wouldn’t/couldn’t.  I just felt like, it wasn’t fair to compare you and him-like apples and oranges.  But yes, it is possible I come across cold at times, and there are times I feel it’s best to pull back emotions or not to have emotions so as not to scare others or be rejected.  My reaction to the above was not to minimize your response to me at all- I believe I understood and appreciated your sentiment.  It was a very kind sentiment.  I see I didn’t communicate about that clearly.

    m

     

     

    #391501
    anita
    Participant

    Dear melisse:

    I feel good reading your recent post this evening, particularly, reading that you accepted my apology and appreciated it, thank you! Also, yes, I was disappointed when you responded to my excited emails with … well, no excitement, back on Monday.

    When I read: “I thought that F was mean, but if I went to the hospital, he would try to see me, you wouldn’t/couldn’t” – I thought to myself: but meliss,  I wouldn’t/ couldn’t call you names like he does, wouldn’t/ couldn’t put you down and insult you for hours and days at a time, like he does What’s so good about a Mr. Mean visiting you at the hospital? What’s good or loving about abuse….

    anita

    #391502
    meliss
    Participant

    Hi anita,

    Re: you feeling pressured

    Please understand, I do not want to exchange emails with you.  I revisited the dialogues to see what I did and I posted them below so I could learn from them(and you could see clearly what I did) because I didn’t remember insisting on anything.  I apologized because I didn’t want you to be upset and I thought I must have pressured you… but I am not the kind of person who insists on things, so I wanted to revisit for the purpose of understanding, not for changing your mind.

    You said:  it was you who initiated the idea of exchanging emails and insisted on it.  You also said in your previous thread, Being pressured to exchange emails with you, (2) Giving in to your pressure, (3) followed by 6 days of technical (and whatever other) problems with the email exchange, (4) The Lose-Lose aspect of this: you felt nervous and uncomfortable after you got what you wanted — has resulted in me feeling stupid and quite angry for having given in to your pressure.

    -has resulted in me feeling stupid and quite angry for having given in to your pressure.– It must have been really uncomfortable for you feeling like I was playing games, maybe?  I don’t  think you have anything to feel stupid about.  You were trying to respond to me and work with me, and it did not work out how you or I would have hoped.  I wish your anger was directed at Hotmail and not me (but coupled with my curt responses on Monday, I guess it did feel like I was taking you for a roller coaster ride? Playing hot and cold?) .

    To be honest, I felt angry too because you just shut it down, not even wanting to hear anything I might have had to say on the subject. You said you won’t respond to emails, your thread is closed cause you don’t want to respond to it anymore and basically you were done with the whole email thing(which is fine)—and all because I said I was nervous. All my worry and struggle when I hadn’t heard from you that week,  all the work I put it, and was putting it even as you posted (googling how to fix Hotmail issues and then trying to type it so you could understand-i even created a alternate email in my yahoo account) didn’t matter one bit.-I am not angry anymore but we did say that we should tell the other if they did something to hurt(I assume anger is included).  You told me why you were angry and I’m telling you why I was…

    This was the dialogue we had about emails. I printed the thread. I wanted to see how I was pressuring you so I typed it here.

    Me:  “I tend to be private.  After the initial burst of energy, it does feel uncomfortable talking about deeply personal stuff on an open forum.  On the site I mentioned where the lady had given me advice, each member had their own personal inbox and we could communicate outside the forums  if we wanted to do so without giving out any personal info.”

    Anita;  I exchanged email information with 6 or 7 tiny Buddha members over the years, talked on the phone several times with two members, but overall, the communication with each and every member was way more productive on this public forum than it was privately.  And so I learned my lesson

    Me:  Point taken.  I didn’t think you would have exchanged e-mails with me although I hoped we would long before I posted on this site.  (I’ve read on Tiny Buddha for awhile).  My thought was that I had the privilege of knowing you are a decent person just from reading your posts but you knew nothing about me, so I didn’t think it would be fair to ask, after all, I could be anyone.  I see you know what works for you by way of communication and I get it.  As for the phone, I rarely talk on the phone.  I see how that would be uncomfortable.  Writing is so much easier.

    Anita: Again thank you!  I am having a bigger smile reading the decent person part.  I didn’t know anything about you before, it is exciting to get to know you!  It is possible that in the future we will both believe that it is a good idea to exchange emails.  Also, like you, I much prefer writing and avoid the phone.

    Me: I like that there is a possibility.  I hate posting personal things on a forum.

    Anita:  I felt recently that I want to exchange emails with you, being that I feel closer to you, two things get in the way of this ….(I simplified, long exchange)1) slow forums 2)you explained some of what happened with other members you emailed.

    On January 5<sup>th</sup>

    Anita: Please respond to any part of my posts whenever you feel like responding, there is no requirement in my mind, that you respond to everything I write in a timely fashion.  You can go back to any part of any post at any time and respond when it suits you.

    Me: I appreciate that you take the time to respond…I was trying to give the same courtesy… Plus, I wanted a pen pal so I guess I am treating our interaction like one

    Anita:  You have me as a pen pal.  I still prefer to communicate here but I am so tempted to offer you to be my penpals via email if it would make you feel better….

    Me:  You have me as a penpal(anita)-This means something to me .  So simple but not really.I really hope you would but I respect your wishes.  I just don’t understand why it’s less likely to be productive if we are the same people (here and on email)…

    At this point we talked about your interaction with the lady who wouldn’t leave her abusive situation, courage, emails are too personal, etc., (I skimmed this part)

    Anita:  Here is what I can offer you in case the website shuts down and we can no longer access each other…(here you said you would take my email and only use it if the site closes down).

    Me:  No, thank you.  I’ve accepted we won’t be emailing and the site isn’t going anywhere…not emailing is best. (For me it went from a possibility to a no, so why give my email just in case the site shuts down?).

    Anita:  okay.  Thank you for being open and upfront me and for your appreciation.  I am a bit sad though…

    This is when I wrote a whole email asking you to reconsider and addressing some of the above points including previous people you emailed and how I would be different (this was where I pressured you, I think) –  At the end of the post, I said,

    Me: “If you decide your answer is still a forever no, I understand.  You have to do what’s right for you based on your experiences.  As I said, I won’t bring it up again, I just think I owed it to myself to try…Thank you for reading

    Anita:  …If you are saying you do want to exchange emails with me after all, that you want to leave this public forum and communicate with me privately, on email, then I say okay it’s fine with me (you did say you were really tired, so maybe that influenced your decision-that doesn’t mean I didn’t pressure you in that last post).

    I honestly expected you to say no…

    Then we exchanged emails…and all the drama started with my blocked email.

    You see, I thought we were dialoguing.   However, I can see that I did not respect your boundary when I asked you to reconsider way at the end.  Because we were talking about it, and you expressed sadness at saying goodbye, I thought I could change your mind. Before that, I kept saying…okay, I get it in one way or the other.  It reads to me like you kind of wanted to exchange emails too-at least a little. Anyway, I’m sorry for making you feel any kind of pressure.  I hate that I did and I hate how it all turned out.  But it’s likely for the best.

     m

    #391519
    anita
    Participant

    Dear meliss:

    I revisited the dialogues… because I didn’t remember insisting on anything… I am not the kind of person who insists on things” –

    Because you deleted your first, very long thread titled Help, I don’t have access to most of your writing, but I copied small parts of what you posted there for my own record. Here is part of your insistence that we withdraw our communication from these public forums and shift to private email: “I tend to be very private. After the initial burst of energy, it does feel uncomfortable talking about deeply personal stuff on am open forum”.

    Most recently, you elaborated on and added to uncomfortable: “I hate posting personal things on an open forum… I feel really disappointed in the fact that you’ve decided that we can never e-mail…  It was so jarring to me…  I think I got a “no” based on what you experienced with other people…  I want to ask you to reconsider based on the following things I will write. If you still decide you don’t want to email me ever, I will respect it and I won’t bring it up again – I promise. I think you were concerned that your emails would enable me to get stuck in a difficult situation … however I don’t see myself as that kind of person… Plus, you would have the right to cut it off at any time, for whatever reason if you felt it wasn’t productive…. I don’t think I would write every day… You said emails were more personal –this doesn’t have to be…. I wouldn’t ask for pictures or anything like that.  It would be just like it is now… If you decide the answer is still a forever no, I understand… As I said, I won’t bring it up again“.

    Some days after the above, you deleted your thread. I then posted to you yesterday, in my own thread titled a message to meliss: “I will never again exchange email addresses on the forums, and I will never again give in to pressure to do so!

    Next, in your second thread, a message to Anita, you wrote: “Do you still not want to try communicating via email?”

    The first topic, a broken promise: “If you still decide you don’t want to email me ever, I will respect it and I won’t bring it up again – I promise…. Do you still not want to try communicating via email?

    The second, more serious topic, unfair emotional manipulation:

    You stated that you feel the following about not communicating with me on email (your words): uncomfortable, hate, really disappointed, jarring. So, as a person with some empathy, I wanted to make you feel better (comfortable, no longer in a state of hate, no longer being disappointed, no longer being jarred). I wanted to please you, plus, although somewhat uncomfortable with the pressure and conflicted, I liked you at the time, so I exchanged emails with you.

    In your most recent post, following my withdrawal from the email route, you added anger to the mix, and you went on to guilt trip me: “To be honest, I felt angry too because… basically, you were done with the whole email thing (which is fine)—and all because I said I was nervous. All my worry and struggle when I hadn’t heard from you that week, all the work I put it, and was putting it even as you posted (googling how to fix Hotmail issues and then trying to type it so you could understand-I even created an alternate email in my yahoo account) didn’t matter one bit-I am not angry anymore” –

    – this is classic guilt-tripping: you are communicating to me that you worried so much, worked so hard googling, struggled so much, and what did I do? I was done with the email route, and why? Just because you were nervous. Clearly suggesting that I wronged you…  after all your hard work.

    “You were done with the whole email thing (which is fine)– clearly it is not fine with you. This is a lie.

    I am not angry anymore“- you removed the anger from the mix of the suffering I allegedly caused you after it served its intended purpose: to show me that you are rightfully angry (rightfully angry because I allegedly wronged you).

    Previously in our communication, on one hand you were warm, gracious and appreciative, but on the other hand you were cold and angry, but not honest about your anger. From one point on, I felt like I needed to be very careful so to avoid your anger, in ways such as bringing up my mistakes before you do, such as the mistake of pasting a quote with your age in it, yesterday.

    Here is an example of your passive-aggressiveness, you wrote: “While I do appreciate your responses and you taking the time to read, write and in some instances, validating my experiences, I really wouldn’t describe you as someone who cared about me” –

    On one hand you are warm and kind: “I do appreciate your responses and you taking the time to read… validating my experiences“,

    On the other hand, you are angry and cold: “in some instances, validating my experiences, I really wouldn’t describe you as someone who cared about me” – letting me know that in some, or in many instances, I failed to validate your experiences, closing with the angry punchline: you do not care about me!

    You wrote yesterday: “I think people can only like me for a little while or if they don’t know me well and my panic was about that too…. Please be patient with me”- I don’t have patience, nor do I want to have patience for interpersonal dishonesty, passive-aggressiveness and unfair emotional manipulation, such as guilt tripping. I think that if I continue to communicate with you, you will graciously accept a bit of what I wrote, deny most, suggest that I am wrong, etc., continuing to present the mix bag of honesty and dishonesty, passive-aggressiveness and a bit of being direct, warm and cold, etc.

    It is interesting, how important it is for us, as humans, to be consistent and mindful about our emotions and behaviors. In the context of a personal friendship or an intimate relationship, the two people need to protect each other and the relationship from the destructive effects of anger. Anger needs to be expressed in an honest yet contained way: I am angry because of this…, and then open it for an honest discussion. Not an argument, but a discussion aimed at resolving the real or imagined conflict that brought about the anger. Too often people express their anger in passive-aggressive ways and then deny it. Too often people keep other people on their toes with the threat of uncontained anger hanging in the air,

    Here is my request: please did not respond to this post. I am guessing that you will delete your thread, so, your response, whatever it may be, will not benefit anyone anyway, being that you will delete it soon. Personally, I don’t want to read it because it is likely to upset me with that mix I mentioned, and no way that it can benefit me.

    In my life, I was not always honest, I too expressed my anger in indirect, dishonest ways. I learned and improved my awareness and my communication with people, making it honest and fair on a consistent basis. You can learn how to do this as well, and I hope that you do because I wish you honest and healthy friendships and relationships with people you are yet to meet.

    anita

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by anita.
    #391542
    meliss
    Participant

    anita-you don’t have to read if you don’t want to but I needed to respond.

    You said the following:

    “Most recently, you elaborated on and added to uncomfortable: “I hate posting personal things on an open forum… I feel really disappointed in the fact that you’ve decided that we can never e-mail…  It was so jarring to me…  I think I got a “no” based on what you experienced with other people…  I want to ask you to reconsiderbased on the following things I will write. If you still decide you don’t want to email me ever, I will respect it and I won’t bring it up again – I promise. I think you were concerned that your emails would enable me to get stuck in a difficult situation … however I don’t see myself as that kind of person… Plus, you would have the right to cut it off at any time, for whatever reason if you felt it wasn’t productive…. I don’t think I would write every day… You said emails were more personal –this doesn’t have to be…. I wouldn’t ask for pictures or anything like that.  It would be just like it is now… If you decide the answer is still a forever no, I understand… As I said, I won’t bring it up again“.- Anita wrote

    This whole paragraph is no different than what I wrote in my previous post.   I said, at the very end of the dialogue, I asked you to reconsider and  that I could see how that post pressured you….  I said:

    This is when I wrote a whole email(should say post) asking you to reconsider and addressing some of the above points including previous people you emailed and how I would be different (this was where I pressured you, I think) –  At the end of the post, I said, Me: “If you decide your answer is still a forever no, I understand.  You have to do what’s right for you based on your experiences.  As I said, I won’t bring it up again, I just think I owed it to myself to try…Thank you for reading” –In this post, I wrote everything you said above.

    After that you consented to us exchanging emails

    This was at the end of my thread entitled help.  Before that post where I asked you to reconsider, if you care to read and process what I wrote above, when emailing was bought up, I usually said, I would like it (to email) but I respect your wishes in one way or the other.

    Re: CONVERSATION 2-in your deleted thread entitle attention meliss,  you quoted the following things in your previous post.

    “Some days after the above, you deleted your thread. I then posted to you yesterday, in my own thread titled a message to meliss: “I will never again exchange email addresses on the forums, and I will never again give in to pressure to do so!

    Next, in your second thread, a message to Anita, you wrote: “Do you still not want to try communicating via email?”

    The first topic, a broken promise: “If you still decide you don’t want to email me ever, I will respect it and I won’t bring it up again – I promise…. Do you still not want to try communicating via email?”- anita

    Let me break it down for clarity.  We were going back and forth on your thread (entitled a message for meliss that you deleted) trying to figure out how to get my emails to you because I was accidently blocked. My messages still were not getting to you.  I had sent you an email from my alternative account, which you did not receive. I was trying to figure out how to fix the problem.  As I was working on it, you wrote and posted the following:

    Being pressured to exchange emails with you, (2) Giving in to your pressure, (3) followed by 6 days of technical (and whatever other) problems with the email exchange, (4) The Lose-Lose aspect of this: you felt nervous and uncomfortable after you got what you wanted — has resulted in me feeling stupid and quite angry for having given in to your pressure. (I don’t have the whole message just this part).

     If I remember correctly, you told me that you won’t read emails from me, you won’t respond to your thread if I reply back, you don’t want to post there anymore , and if I didn’t start my own thread, this was goodbye.

    At the time, I thought that you felt angry and stupid because you thought I was nervous and uncomfortable about emailing you after I pressured you(your words).  I focused on that so I sent a copy of the email I wrote earlier in the week(first post in this thread), trying to let you know that my nervouseness had nothing to do with me not wanting to communicate.  To be honest, I didn’t want you to feel “angry or stupid” because I pressured you and got what I wanted and still felt nervous and uncomfortable (according to you).  I felt anger at that time, too (at the abrupt  way it happened) but it wasn’t as important as fixing what I thought was wrong.  I didn’t want you to feel “stupid or angry”(I felt some compassion). So, when I asked in the second conversation …Do you still not want to try communicating via email?…(after I sent the email trying to explain my nervousness), It was to clarify because I thought my nervousness played a big part in your anger and it was maybe a rash decision. I wanted to make sure you understood that I really valued communication despite being nervous-and my nervousness shouldn’t be a reason to abort the process(Obviously, I focused on that part of what your wrote and I should not have).

     Days later, I expressed that I had felt anger too and why.  I said:

     To be honest, I felt angry too because you just shut it down, not even wanting to hear anything I might have had to say on the subject. You said you won’t respond to emails, your thread is closed cause you don’t want to respond to it anymore and basically you were done with the whole email thing(which is fine)—and all because I said I was nervous. (what prompted your post, as I understand it, is that I wrote in my first email to you, I’m nervous even though I bugged you to email me). All my worry and struggle when I hadn’t heard from you that week,  all the work I put it, and was putting it even as you posted (googling how to fix Hotmail issues and then trying to type it so you could understand-i even created a alternate email in my yahoo account) didn’t matter one bit.-I am not angry anymore but we did say that we should tell the other if they did something to hurt(I assume anger is included).  You told me why you were angry and I’m telling you why I was…

     So you say I was being passive aggressive and I’m guilt tripping you.  I don’t see it…Actually, I guess I can see how you felt blamed but it was not passive aggressive and it was not my intention to blame you.

    You expressed your anger to me- and it’s okay? I express that I was angry(read frustrated)as well and I’m being passive aggressive and dishonest and manipulative? I was not guilt tripping you, at least, it wasn’t my intention.  But how is what I wrote different from what you wrote? You blamed me for pressuring you, said that I felt nervous and uncomfortable after getting what I wanted and it resulted in you feeling angry and stupid. Had you said something like, “meliss, I’m not comfortable with this anymore, I change mind, I no longer want to exchange emails,” I don’t think I would have felt anger.  It was how you just shut it down.  I expressed my feelings in the last post, not for the purpose of changing your mind(I would never want to email again), not to blame you…but so you could maybe understand how I was effected too.

    I said I wasn’t angry anymore because I didn’t want you to think I was angry at you still – but in the moment –when it happened- I felt upset because I was blamed and because I was shut down-I’m not responding to anything you say on this thread(or something like that). Had you said something like, “I see that you were really trying hard to fix the problem, but I am not interested in doing this anymore,”  I think that would’ve helped.  It was like I wasn’t there struggling through it with you- I became the problem and you were shutting me down.  That bothered me(at the time).

    Maybe I should have said I worked hard at trying to fix the Hotmail problem, now you’re shutting it down and it results in me feeling angry and frustrated? I think it’s the same thing, less detail.  Maybe this way is easier on the emotions?

    Anger needs to be expressed in an honest yet contained way: I am angry because of this…, and then open it for an honest discussion. Not an argument, but a discussion aimed at resolving the real or imagined conflict that brought about the anger.– you said this about anger.  So, when you wrote your post stating that  I  feel stupid and angry…I’m not responding to this thread, I am not responding if you post here…Can’t you see that’s what frustrated me?  I don’t think there was any room for open and honest discussion, not to change your mind but to process how we both felt. It felt like you blamed me and shut it down.

    “You were done with the whole email thing (which is fine)” – clearly it is not fine with you. This is a lie. – Except it’s not a lie(You speak with such authority and telling me what I’m thinking and feeling-it would be better to ask).  I was just processing and trying to understand in that post.  At the time when it first happened I was upset(at how it went down), not anymore, and not when I wrote the post.

    “I am not angry anymore“- you removed the anger from the mix of the suffering I allegedly caused you after it served its intended purpose: to show me that you are rightfully angry (rightfully angry because I allegedly wronged you).- I never said anything about being rightfully angry.  Anger is just a feeling. I never said you wronged me.  How come when you expressed your anger, it was okay?  I did work hard trying to handle the Hotmail problem, I did feel shut down after you aborted the process in the middle of doing it, and I did feel angry.  Why is my expression of anger worse than yours?  What’s the difference? Is it because your anger was justified, you think?

    You said the following:

    On one hand you are warm and kind: “I do appreciate your responses and you taking the time to read… validating my experiences“,

    On the other hand, you are angry and cold: “in some instances, validating my experiences, I really wouldn’t describe you as someone who cared about me” – letting me know that in some, or in many instances, I failed to validate your experiences, closing with the angry punchline: you do not care about me! –Anita

     This is the second time you brought this up, I’m going to write the whole dialog for clarity.  Your original question to me was,

    “Isn’t it sad that I, a person you first communicated with only <u>five days</u> ago, a person you never met in-person, cares more about you than your father whom you’ve been with in-person for 46 years?.”

    Below is the answer 1<sup>st</sup> answer I gave-the whole thing:

    This had me thinking for a minute.  While I do appreciate your responses and you taking the time to read, write and in some instances, validating my experiences, I really wouldn’t describe you as someone who cared about me, after all, I am a stranger.  I honestly don’t think it’s a fair comparison.  However, you have shown more compassion to my emotional well-being than he does, and as I said, I am grateful for your time in that respect.

    To me, the whole quote paints a different picture.

    This is the second answer I gave when you bought it up again:

    As for the above, I think we had been writing for 2 or 3 days-maybe a week.  I don’t think a stranger could care about me in that amount of time.  I did appreciate your time and compassion.  I still do. I thought that F was mean, but if I went to the hospital, he would try to see me, you wouldn’t/couldn’t.  I just felt like, it wasn’t fair to compare you and him-like apples and oranges.  But yes, it is possible I come across cold at times, and there are times I feel it’s best to pull back emotions or not to have emotions so as not to scare others or be rejected.  My reaction to the above was not to minimize your response to me at all- I believe I understood and appreciated your sentiment.  It was a very kind sentiment.  I see I didn’t communicate about that clearly

    What else can I say?  I mention that I was angry about the way you aborted what we were doing in your in your thread (fixing the email problem), now you’re seeing anger everywhere?

    Again, I was not angry but I don’t believe someone I knew 5 days, cared about me(maybe that’s a problem but it’s my truth) .  You take things I say out of context and I had already explained it previously. Also, I never said anything about you failing to validate my experiences but honestly, 1.) There are things I never told you about, so how could you possibly validate them? and 2) there are times where I didn’t feel validated.  It’s okay though, no one is perfectly validating all the time.  This wasn’t a dig at you; this was just me trying to be precise with words.

    “You stated that you feel the following about not communicating with me on email (your words): uncomfortable, hate, really disappointed, jarring. So, as a person with some empathy, I wanted to make you feel better (comfortable, no longer in a state of hate, no longer being disappointed, no longer being jarred). I wanted to please you, plus, although somewhat uncomfortable with the pressure and conflicted, I liked you at the time, so I exchanged emails with you.”

    I did use all of those words.  All I can say is that I do hate typing in the forums.  It is personal preference of mine, not to share personal things here. I came here because I felt at the end of my line. The words “disappointed” and “jarring” were shared in the post where I asked you to reconsider(and I acknowledged the pressure in that post over and over).  Before that, I did talk about being uncomfortable and hating forums.  It’s the truth about how I feel.  However, it did not mean that it was ever your responsibility to do something about it.  Other than, if you want to be compassionate, “I understand that it’s hard for you.”  It was never your responsibility to please me, although I understand feeling compassion and wanting to help…but it was never something I felt you owed me. I expressed hating forums and have acknowledged that I would prefer email but I usually said I would respect your wishes(except in that last post in my thread where I asked you to reconsider-which I regret so much).

    I don’t have patience, nor do I want to have patience for interpersonal dishonesty, passive-aggressiveness and unfair emotional manipulation, such as guilt tripping. I think that if I continue to communicate with you, you will graciously accept a bit of what I wrote, deny most, suggest that I am wrong, etc., continuing to present the mix bag of honesty and dishonesty, passive-aggressiveness and a bit of being direct, warm and cold, etc. – You certainly have a lot to say about who I am or what I’m about.  Not that maybe our communication lines got crossed, or maybe there was a bit of misunderstanding.  Not maybe the intent was good, but it was expressed in the wrong way. No, according to you, I am passive aggressive, I use unfair emotional manipulation, I am cold, in an earlier thread, I am paranoid, I am interpersonally dishonest.  There is no other problem, right?  It’s okay, anita, I don’t want to communicate anymore either but it would be unfair to just let your one-sided interpretation stand.

    m

     

     

    #391544
    meliss
    Participant

    Edit…I thought you deleted your thread “a message for meliss” but you didn’t.  It was a mistake.  I apologize for saying you did when you didn’t.

    m

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