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August 10, 2020 at 5:18 pm #364387AnonymousGuest
Dear Suzanne;
You write like a poet, your writing has music to it. But for my purpose, which is to understand you, in the context of your thread, I cannot connect the dots. But I am glad that you have some understanding as a result of your communication with Rose of Yellow. I want to close my involvement in your thread by voicing my concern: you are 21 and your dream man is a “man no older than 60”. In other words, a man who could be your grandfather. A 60 year old man willing to have a sexual relationship with a 21 year old is not a decent man.
anita
August 10, 2020 at 5:34 pm #364392SuzanneParticipantDear anita.
Again, sorry I’m not clear with my writing.
And thank you for being part of the thread. I know a 39 year age gap is concerning. Yes, there’s something wrong with a man older enough to be a grandfather sleeping with a woman young enough to be his granddaughter. It’s sick. It’s wrong. But the idea of something “wrong” is kind of hot. To do something/be with someone that is taboo/forbidden is kind of a turn on.
And best wishes to you on your life path. Wherever it leads you.
Suzanne.
August 10, 2020 at 6:03 pm #364393AnonymousGuestDear Suzanne:
Thank you for your good wishes for me. I am sorry that for you, being 21, the idea of having a sexual relationship with a man in his 40s, or worse, a man in his 50s.. or even worse, a man who is 60, is “kind of hot”. So sorry because I know, from personal experience, a 32 year difference.. I was 18. The memories of it haunt me to this very day. It wasn’t “kind of hot”, it was disgusting and obscene. It was a tragedy. So many, many older men take advantage of very young women, women with.. issues.
Best wishes to you, may you get over what you call “daddy issues”, and get to the real issues.
anita
August 20, 2020 at 4:09 am #365168SuzanneParticipantDear anita.
Thank you for opening up about your past experiences. Just hearing about it, you wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Hopefully time has allowed the healing process to be more effective. It feels wrong to be attracted to older men. But it still feels so… irresistible. I can’t help it. It would hurt to be taken advantage of. To feel scars no one can see. Consider it a cautionary tale. And hopefully karma will work its magic on those who harm innocent people.
One step at a time, these “daddy issues” will melt away some day. And we’ll tackle the “real issues” together. (Is it only codependency or is it more than that? 🤷♀️)
Suzanne.
August 20, 2020 at 8:19 am #365180AnonymousGuestDear Suzanne:
You are welcome and thank you for your empathetic reply to me.
“It feels wrong to be attracted to older men. But it still feels so… irresistible”- when feelings are intense, they are very powerful, they move us to action. Another word for a feeling is emotion: e-motion, or energy in motion. It is literally energy that moves us to perform this or that action.
Emotions in themselves are neither good nor bad: they don’t have a moral value. But our actions do have moral values when they have the potential to hurt or to help people.
You are considering having a sexual relationship with a man who is as old as 60, while you are 21. What is the moral value of this behavior?
The older man, in his 50s or at 60, being sexual with a 21 year old woman (only three years removed from being an illegal activity)- what is his motivation: having a companion to grow old with so to not be lonely, to exchange thoughts and life experiences, to keep each other healthier by eating healthier and exercising together… or is his motivation to experience the thrill of using a young, hot body sexually?
He knows that what he is doing is wrong, he knows the girl he is with has emotional problems, and yet, he is willing to take advantage of her, to use her mental troubles for his own selfish, sexual thrill-
– Is this the kind of man that you want to have a relationship with; is a man of your dreams?
The title of your thread is “Daddy issues”- but I am not clear about what you mean by it. Can you define this term as it applies to you, giving me a dictionary like definition: not long, and as precise as possible?
anita
- This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by .
August 21, 2020 at 10:07 am #365272AnonymousInactiveI have been taking a break due to being super busy in the home dealing with “projects.” So I will try to answer some of your questions. I suggest reading about codependency first and doing the exercises or activities at the end of the chapters in The New Codependency by Melody Beatty. See what you think and what feels really hard or really easy.
I believe humans who have this overly need to control do it because they feel anxiety, or they need validation because their self esteem is low, or they are narcissists or sociopaths or maybe a million other things I can’t bring to mind right now. I do it when I am not feeling good about myself within myself as a way to manage my world. But it is a fallacy to think we can control the world or others. We can only control ourselves and to be focused on changing and controlling someone else is avoiding the work, the emotional work, we come to this world as human beings to do. It is easier to focus on what is wrong with someone else than to work on ourselves because change is freaking hard. But worth the struggle and worth the time and self love.
The opposite of needing control is acceptance or maybe detachment in Al Anon language. The Serenity Prayer is full of acceptance. Acceptance of life, acceptance of other people as they are and how they are, and acceptance of ourselves. In some forms of therapy, it is called “radical acceptance.” We practice this daily, just like we practice our driving or cooking skills every day that we drive or cook. I like this quote, I am exploring a book by the author right now but its very deep and I think you should start with something else first. “Whatever the present moment contains, accept it as if you had chosen it. Always work with it, not against it. Make it your friend and ally, not your enemy. This will miraculously transform your whole life.” -Eckhart Tolle
What this quote is talking about is the opposite of control, it is about acceptance of today and embracing what life is giving us for today. It is about the now that we live, without trying to change everyone and everything around us. And by the way, many CODA meetings are now on zoom. I am doing a support group on zoom, it is almost as good as attending in person and actually, it is kinda nice to have that barrier of not being in person sometimes as it allows me to think more deeply instead of being focused on people in the room.
I am not gung ho on the describing a full picture of what your ideal relationship would be but I can see that perhaps it allows us to see the delusions or the irrationality. No relationship is going to be perfect. Sex won’t be perfect all the time, things happen, people get sick and maybe our partners can’t for a short or long while. To have this ideal, this totally painted picture, feels like any real relationship would not measure up. If we have these ideals, then what human can meet them? It is okay to have fantasy if we know it is fantasy. But if we think our fantasy is attainable, this may lead us to lots of emotional heartache. I know Anita asked you to paint this picture, just think about radical acceptance and reality vs. my fantasy man. I am married to my fantasy man and he sure is human, he sure does things that annoy me like anyone else would! LOL. I am his fantasy woman and the first few years of our marriage, we argued all the time because our marriage was good but not “fantastic” like he thought in his irrational mind what it “should be.” Shoulds and musts have to be dropped as they aren’t helpful in our everyday lives, they negate our path to acceptance of life and of ourselves and of others. What can be beautiful about a variety or responses to us is that we learn from each and we find pieces in each that meet our needs. I do find you very admirable to be willing to change yourself and to be seeking a better future for yourself. I admire your honesty and desire for self growth.
August 21, 2020 at 11:31 pm #365326SuzanneParticipantDear anita.
No one has ever talked about emotions that way before. What you said was truly insightful. Thank you. So to clarify: thoughts➡️feelings➡️actions➡️behavior➡️character. Feel free to correct any errors mentioned in the post.
Recently heard that “character isn’t words; character is action.” It sounds like the gist of what you mentioned previously.
The morals of the sexual relationship aren’t good, to be honest. The emotions behind this would be anger, sadness, revenge. Yes, there’s the thrill of “going against the grain.” To do something taboo. But there’s still the element of love, bonding, trust. For a man to appreciate someone despite their flaws. To be adored would be the most wonderful feeling.
Yes, it’s sick for a man to take advantage of a vulnerable, sad girl. It’s wrong for him to take her innocence, her virginity, her youth. But in all honesty, there’s an element of wanting to be taken advantage of. Wanting to feel validated. For a moment, she can receive a love she’s never been given. Yes, this girl clearly has self esteem problems. Yes, this girl doesn’t value herself. She’s simply trying to get by.
Yes, he’ll use her for her body and leave her high and dry.
Guess you’re right. He simply isn’t the “man of my dreams.”
“Daddy issues” is defined as someone (usually a female) who has experienced physical or emotional abuse and/or abandonment by a father or a father figure. This leads to her trying to find a father figure. This can be through sex/forming relationships with older men, alcohol/drug problems, entering abusive relationships and having low self worth in general.
Hopefully this post will have some value in it.
Suzanne.
August 22, 2020 at 12:13 am #365327SuzanneParticipantHello Rose of Yellow.
Please take your time with your posts on Tiny Buddha. Your home life should be your #1 priority. On that note, thanks for taking the time out to answer the post. It means a lot. Reading “Codependency for Dummies” right now. It’s EXTREMELY helpful. Actually helped answer a lot of the questions in my head. Can’t wait to read the Melody Beatty book.
What you rattled off the top of your head are the reasons we want validation and control. Trust me, I’m no exception (ha ha). Yes, there are definitely things we can control within our world. But it is most certainly naive to think we can do the same with people and the rest of the world. In a self help book, someone said something like, “fix yourself before you fix the world.” Just trying not to throw stones in my glass house (ha ha). Please don’t feel discouraged. The path to self growth seems so exciting. ☺️
Trying to let go of all of life’s hang ups. So what is this “Serenity Prayer” you mention of? Seems really hippy dippy, in all honesty (ha ha). That’s cool, though. Do pretty much anything to reach “radical acceptance.” My mantra from now on will be: focus on what you can control, not what you can’t. And a friend of Eckart Tolle is a friend of mine (ha ha) 😆. To be honest, anything from him is a gift from the gods. No wonder Oprah loves him so much!
The quote sounds like what every spiritual guru talks about when being “present.” To be honest, being in the “here and now” is one of the most daunting things a person can do! Like everything in life, it’s certainly easier said than done. Still yet to accept that the only thing that can be changed is ourselves. On another topic, that’s awesome CODA’s now doing zoom classes! Do you have to pay/subscribe/sign up to anything?
You have every right to feel hesitant about my “ideal relationship”. Then again, anything considered “ideal” does stem from irrationality and/or delusion. And yes, no partner can be perfect all the time. Maybe I’ve got to lower my expectations? 😂So a fantasy is fine as long as it’s in our heads. So where do we draw the line between fantasy and having standards for a partner? So I’ll have to set aside my “fantasy man” for now and focus on “radical acceptance”. Plus, that’s awesome you’re married to you’re fantasy man! Turns out they do exist. As cliched as it sounds, you really sound like a “match made in heaven.” (Ha ha.) But really, what are “needs” as opposed to “wants” in a relationship? Are they different from “shoulds and musts”? So excited to go on this learning journey. Hopefully it’ll answer the real question in life: what exactly are “needs”?Who would’ve thought the path to a better future started on a Tiny Buddha forum? 😇 Your words mean a lot. We all want you to reach your destination towards self growth.
- This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Suzanne.
August 22, 2020 at 8:13 am #365335AnonymousGuestDear Suzanne:
You are welcome.
“character isn’t words; character is actions”- more accurately, a good character is when there is a close enough fit between a person’s words and a person’s actions. Listen to their words and observe their action- and you will know their character.
“there’s a thrill of ‘going against the grain.’ To do something taboo. But there’s still the element of love, bonding, trust”- if a person had a choice between (1) thrill and (2) love-bonding-trust, a person will always choose love-bonding-trust, each and every time.
It is when a person is lacking love-bonding-trust in his or her life, that he/ she will choose the thrill because the choice then is between (1) thrill, and (3) void/ nothing.
“Yes, it’s sick for a man to take advantage of a vulnerable, sad girl.. But in all honesty, there’s an element of wanting to be taken advantage of. Wanting to feel validated. For a moment, she can receive a love she’s never been given”-
– the “love she’s never been given” is the void/ nothing that I mentioned above. Your thrill about being with a much older man was born out of the void of being unloved, out of the void of not having love-bonding-trust in your young life.
In your definition of “Daddy issues”, you wrote: “someone (usually a female) who has experienced physical or emotional abuse and/ or abandonment by a father”-
– can you next define for me the nature of the physical or emotional abuse and/ or abandonment that you experienced by your father?
anita
August 22, 2020 at 2:54 pm #365342AnonymousInactiveI had a boss who married a man 18 years older than her. She was an adult, older than you, Suzanne, and Anita was. Now this former boss is 75 and wants to travel, retire, do fun things and her husband is 93 but she has to stay home and take care of him. My former boss is angry about this. But she liked it at first when this older man’s attention was on her. The thing is, they have never been partners and now she has to take care of him which galls her. A man/woman of 60 simply can’t be a partner to a 21 year old. One might be in friendship or maybe love or even a play toy, but the maturity gap is so wide there is no true partnership. Older people often like to have relationships/sex with younger women/men as a way of recapturing their youth. And sometimes the older person likes the control they have over the younger person due to the financial differences. There is an imbalance and imbalance in a relationship creates stress and unhappiness. The age difference is too great, the wisdom and maturity is (hopefully) too great. A person this old has baggage from life, even a well lived and happy life brings baggage. But a person this old to your tender years of 21 will only GIVE you baggage, as Anita mentioned. A person of age 60 who was interested in very young women was Jeffrey Epstein. Google him if you have never heard of him. What Anita wrote about the thrill of the “forbidden” – my words – vs. having nothing is ever so true. Figure out yourself, figure out your own issues and emotional needs, and take care of you. Taking care of you isn’t making it with some older dude to create a new daddy figure and redo one’s childhood to make it better than the real one was. Find your inner core valuing of self, your self love, and spiritual principles and then you will find a true partner. Wanting some man to take care of you, to fix him, to have great sex (gets harder sometimes as we age), is just another step on the unhappy path. Of course, this is totally your life, you can make your own choices. Sometimes we have to make our mistakes to learn from them, ’tis being human.
August 24, 2020 at 4:12 am #365404SuzanneParticipantDear Anita.
Once again, thank you for your sage advice.
“character isn’t words; character is actions” is another way of saying, “he/she says it like it is.” Other expressions that are similar are,”a sharp shooter” or a “straight talker.”
So #2 (love bonding) is the more responsible path? And it’s suppose to be the most rewarding path? But the trade off is that it will be the most challenging of the two? What if #1 (the thrill) is pursued, but in a one night stand/hookup/fling? Is that okay?
Clearly, I’m seeking #2 because I’m lacking #1. But in all honesty, the thought of an age appropriate relationship is kind of boring. Something inside me would rather choose #3 (loneliness/void) instead of #1 (love-bond).
Other than being with a much older man, I can’t really think of other ways to fill this void. (Started reading about codependency, as suggested by Rose of Yellow. There’s an upcoming chapter on how to break free from codependency.) But in the meantime, how do you fill that void? And what does a trusting relationship look like? I must admit, I haven’t been able to trust ever since. That’s why bonds have been weak ever since. And how do you re-experience the love you lost? Or is it gone forever?
Please note: he was NEVER physically abusive to me or my mom. Plus, I don’t think he’s been emotionally abusive. I remember being scared of him when I was younger. He’s a dominating man who must control others/the environment he’s in. Think “my way or the highway.” I was scared of talking back/rebelling. I was basically scared of rejection. Because in caveman times, the outcast was most likely to die from the environment and/or being unable to gain resources. So the only coping mechanism I’ve thought of was to keep quiet. Since then, I’ve pretended to act like everything’s okay. I’ve been in hiding ever since.
It was really a case of abandonment. Being unable to “divorce” (pun intended) his past life with his present life. I took his past mistakes personally and somehow felt responsible for them. I felt our relationship was a sham. It was based on lies and secrecy. And naturally, I was mad. I wish he would talk about his past. There’s no point in hiding. Plus the truth comes out in the end. I know this sounds dramatic, but it felt like the Truman Show. Especially when the nurse tells Truman “everything’s a lie.” Just typing this, it still hurts to this day.
But with everything in life, there was a positive. One plus side would be the that the image of the perfect father was shattered. I stopped idolizing him. I finally saw him as a person. It made me prioritize trust more than anything in relationships. It forced me to be self reliant. And if I do end up having children, I would try to be upfront about everything that happened to me.
Suzanne.
August 24, 2020 at 4:56 am #365405SuzanneParticipantDear Rose of Yellow.
Thank you for sharing that story. It really helps put things in perspective. I always thought if I loved a man so much I wouldn’t care if I had to take care of him in his old age. But that story shows you can end up angry with your life choices. Consider it a cautionary tale.
And yes, like your boss, I craved the attention of an older man. But really, who doesn’t want attention?
So what is the age gap “limit” which you can both can be partners? 15 years? 10 years? 5 years? I have considered having an age gap friendship, preferably with a woman. I like to think of it like a lioness with her cub. She’d protect me whilst I grew physically/emotionally. But I digress.
I asked this question with Anita: is it okay to be in an age gap relationship if it’s a one night stand/hookup/fling? I know older people sleep with younger people to capture the youth they lost. Personally, I want this relationship to gain the time/life experiences I’ve yet to encounter. And yes, the older person would want to financially abuse the younger person. Yes, there are so many cards stacked against the relationship. So we’re simply not compatible, no matter how hard we try? So we shouldn’t bother forming a relationship? I know it’s delusional, but I consider his “baggage” to be more of an asset than a liability. It adds “character” to the man. Personally, I’d rather look at a yellowing piece of paper with tears and ink stains /mistakes on them than a plain white sheet of paper.
Look, I know I’m crazy, but even I know what Epstein did was sick. 🤢 And on that note, just here to remind you that he didn’t kill himself. In all seriousness, I know you and Anita are head and shoulders over me when it comes to life experiences. I owe a lot to you two. Plus, I can’t wait to find more about myself. Though I know it will be scary, it will be just as exciting. I know trying to “relive” the father-daughter relationship I’ve always wanted is not ideal. What is ideal is “inner core valuing of self, your self love, and spiritual principles.” Then the ideal partner will show up.
Yes, having a broken partner will lead to a broken relationship. But in all honesty, every time you push (i.e. talk against an age gap romance) I keep pulling (i.e. want to be in one even more). But really, I’m just stubborn in nature. I shouldn’t throw your advice out the window. I know you two want me to not make mistakes. Ultimately, the mistakes I make will lie on me. That’s just life, I guess. 🤷♀️
August 24, 2020 at 1:08 pm #365444AnonymousGuestDear Suzanne:
You wrote: “Clearly, I’m seeking #2 because I’m lacking #1”. In my post to you I suggested “(1) thrill and (2) love-bonding-trust”. So, are you saying that you are seeking love, bonding and trust with a man, and that you are seeking these things because you are lacking thrill in your life???
“Something inside me would rather choose #3 (loneliness/ void) instead of #1 (love-bond)”-
– do you have experience in life with a “love-bond” relationship, be it with a parent or anyone? If so, what did or does that relationship look like, sound like, feel like?
anita
August 24, 2020 at 2:40 pm #365455SuzanneParticipantDear Anita.
If given the chose between #2 or #1, everything inside me would choose #2. This is clearly the most impulsive choice. It is pretty much to chase thrills. In other words, if someone were to present #1 or #2 in front of me and I had a split second to choose, I’d choose #2. But if someone gave me time to choose, I’d still choose #1.
And no, I’ve never experienced #1. Currently experiencing #3. Please tell me, what does/did #1 feel like?
Suzanne.
August 24, 2020 at 2:52 pm #365458AnonymousGuestDear Suzanne:
I didn’t understand your first paragraph. Can you re-write it as clearly as possible?
anita
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