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October 27, 2017 at 10:57 am #175239AnonymousGuest
Dear Monica:
Correct.
anita
October 27, 2017 at 11:09 am #175247MinaParticipantAnita,
I understand your point.
When I feel that intense distress, and I turn into fantasies and lashing out = Rejecting the distress
But by feeling it, no matter how hard, or how painful, without resorting to fantasy and lashing out = Accepting it
I have a bad habit of resorting to the fantasy by looking out old pictures, old conversation in my phone, even keeping a really old receipt from our last date … and I look at those little things as a fantasy/ escape during my distress moment.
So are you suggesting to STOP looking or keeping those things?
or do you have any other suggestions or advices that might work to stop the fantasy?
and regarding the lashing out,
I do not know how I can control it, the rage and the anger – I am very sensitive.
Too sensitive, I have to admit.
Little things gets to me, as little as missing out a class today, I had a mental breakdown over it.
During those mental breakdown, I would cry, feeling like everything is ruined …
I missed ONE class, and I genuinely think that my life here is over.
I immediately wanted to talk to Gyunnie, wanted him to hug me and comfort me. Wishing, crying, begging that somehow God would listen and let me meet him again.
I fell asleep (for 1 hour) from being too tired from the crying, and when I woke up, I felt ok.
It was weird … when I felt fine (calm) – I did not understand why I had acted the way I did before I fell asleep.
-Monica
October 27, 2017 at 11:22 am #175249AnonymousGuestDear Monica:
Regarding the fantasy, you asked: “are you suggesting to STOP looking or keeping those things?
or do you have any other suggestions or advices that might work to stop the fantasy?”-I am not suggesting to stop fantasy cold turkey. It is not this or that; it is both, the fantasy and enduring distress. You do the exercise I did yesterday at one time and at another time you do your fantasy. Over time when you get experience and succeed in the relaxing into your distress, you will not have the need to resort to fantasy.
Regarding lashing out- you can’t stop that cold turkey either. Over time, as you experience success in relaxing into your distress, bringing it into your awareness and relaxing, you will experience more calm and way less rage.
It is like this, your blood is to be drawn by a nurse with a needle. You get all tense and as the nurse inserts the needle it hurts a lot. You think to yourself: it hurts a whole lot to have a needle in my arm!
Another day, you have your blood drawn, a nurse with a needle. You get all tense. The nurse says: relax, relax your arm. It will hurt less, you will see. You relax and to your surprise it hardly hurt! How can that be, you wonder- well, you relaxed into it.
You missed a class, that was your needle. It hurt and you got all tense, reacting with fantasy and anger (maybe saying to yourself: look what you did, you ruined everything!)
Then you slept, that is, you relaxed and it didn’t hurt anymore.
anita
October 28, 2017 at 2:00 am #175303MinaParticipantAnita,
Today was not a great day for me.
I heard news about Gyunnie. He is coming to Seoul to watch a concert of his favorite rapper – I know that he is a big fan of the rapper and been wanting to watch his concert, but it kills me … so much.
I fall apart, seeing his post about how excited he is that he even posted his concert ticket.
He is willing to take a 3 hour train ride from his hometown to Seoul to watch that concert.
He is … happy.
He is …. doing well. He’s alive.
He’s probably the happiest in his life right now, without me or KU bothering him.
He got accepted in his long time dream university, he got his parents support and he is just living his life to the fullest.
While I am here. I am stuck.
I lied to you, to him, even to myself. I don’t want him to be happy or ok.
I want him to suffer, even as little as 1/10 of what I am feeling.
I wish him to feel THIS pain that I am feeling.
I am begging, pleading, wishing that he is not okay but he is more than okay, he is HAPPY with his life.
I’ve been denying this for a very long time.
Why is it like this?
Why am I the only one suffering?
Feeling an unberable amount of pain, alone?
Fighting a lonely battle with myself, fighting everyone else that has something else to say about Gyunnie.
Why can’t I live like Gyunnie, why can’t I take care and be nice to myself?
Why can’t I do what he wanted me to do, to move on and be well?
I am NOT well. Very far from it.
I feel pathetic, I feel sad for myself.
I cannot even be “well” to honour his last words to me, If I really did loved Gyunnie, I should have been able to do that.
Why did I stayed as a dissapointment to him and to myself until the very end?
Why?
I genuinely thought what I feel for Gyunnie is a part of the delusions that I was feeling during those 4 months… and that it’d would dissapear once I lost the delusions.
I realise that what I feel is reality.
It’s real.
It’s not a delusion that I created, and probably the only thing that’s real is my love for him.
Sometimes, a lot of times, I wished that my love was also a delusion.
So I won’t be in so much pain.
I am not sure if you remember or not, but everyday – I wished that I can turned back time.
I’d stopped him from going out drinking (the event that made him lost his watch, and him taking it as a sign that he should move to Y Uni) – I wish that I had cried and pleaded him not to go that day.
Maybe things would be different.
I wish that I wasn’t so clingy and needy to him, maybe he wouldn’t have left me.
Anita….
There are so many “maybes” and “I wish” in my life.
So many things I could have done better during our relationship.
That maybe can save our relationship.
I am desperate, to let him go but I cannot.
Please. Give me advices.P.s : another bad news… lately I’ve been wanting to go back to “Mina” – Kim Mina. I want to feel close to him. Taking his last name. I know that what I feel right now is not right. I know.
-Monica
October 28, 2017 at 2:08 am #175305MinaParticipant*did not post correctly
October 28, 2017 at 3:12 am #175307MinaParticipant[VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE]
I just talked to my mother, because my head was hurting so bad from all the stress.
I was in a “distress” mode, so maybe that was why my head hurt so much.
I asked for her permission to go see a psychiatrist when I go back home next week, I was very skeptic about it. I have mentioned that there are a lot of stigmas regarding mental illnesses here in Asia,
so a lot of parents won’t allow their children to go see such doctors.
One of my best friend, Patricia, suffered from depression as well … but her parents are simply hell to her.
Her parents does not allow her to go see a psychiatrist because it is embarrassing for the family, her father is a misogynist that treated her brother like a prince while she is being treat like trash, I realise that her situation is 100x worse than mine.
I still at least have my parents with me.
I was wrong about them, I doubted and assume that they won’t understand me ever but I was wrong.
My mother opened up to me that during her 20s, she was also depressed and got treated by a psychiatrist.
I was … very surprised. My mother seems stable, seems always happy, and she is certainly not the type to “embarrass” the family by seeing a psychiatrist, especially during 1990s, when it was negatively stigmatised.
My mother must have had a very very hard time, just like I am right now.
Comparing my situation to Patrice, I should never ever complain … I feel so overwhelmed that I cried.
Patrice, just like how I was, is current living in a delusion.
She hates her own father, but claims that she wants to be like her mom when she grew up.
But from her story, her mother is far from supportive,
She expressed her desire to move college, she got rejected. Her mother does not even listen. Her brother asked to change college, and her parents immediately reacted to it.
Her parents always blame her for her brothers mistake as well.
Even when she expressed how she is depressed, her parents again does not listen.
Refuses to understand. Refused to even let her go see a doctor and get proper treatment.
I want to help her so badly, Anita.
How hell her life must be right now.
-Monica
October 28, 2017 at 6:58 am #175321AnonymousGuestDear Monica:
You wrote last: “I want to help her so badly”- reads to me that you need to help yourself.
Your post before last was part of a temper tantrum. You already communicated to me that when you lash out, what I call temper tantrums, you say inaccurate things. Also, these lashing out, these tantrums are aimed at getting attention and sort of… performing on a stage and enjoying the limelight.
Well, I am not your audience, I am not sitting in that theatre.
anita
October 28, 2017 at 7:43 am #175339MinaParticipantAnita,
Sorry to make you feel like I was for “seeking” attention from your part,
that was not my intention.
The first post was I did not feel like it was a temper tantrum, as it was based on facts, that he did indeed purchased the concert ticket.
and it made me felt a lot of things, and yes indeed I have talked to you regarding how his actions affected my feelings.
Again, I apologise for somehow making you feel uncomfortable regarding the whole Patrice`s thing as well.
The thing with my mom was true. She did suffered from depression and went to see a psychiatrist, that is why she let me see one and understood me.
I never have any intentions to make you feel like an “audience” in my life drama, really.
You might not believe me, but If I do this just to get attention … I would not be here. I would just seek attention somewhere else, in real life.
The Patrice thing, I genuinely wanted to help her, I do not see anything wrong with it.
Yes, you might laugh seeing how “unstable” I am yet I still want to help my best friend in her situation, I get it. It is funny.
I completely understand of you being tired of hearing me, of reading all of my “temper tantrums” as well.
It genuinely hurts me when you told me that I throw tantrums to get “attention” … for what?
I think I seek attention from Gyunnie not from you, and to get it, I can just easily post on my social media, creating a drama of some sort and I will definitely get it,
and I have never done such things, ever.
Why would I seek attention in a website here?
Those “temper tantrums” are genuinely how I felt. I posted here because I genuinely wants advices, and help.
I just feel like I connect with you pretty well, that is why sometimes when I post I do not think it through, I thought that this website is not some sort of a place where you have to think everything throughly before you post.
A lot of people posts when they are not in a “stable” situation as well.
If you think that the last 2 posts are temper tantrums, it is ok. It is your opinion, but I think I should make it clear that it was not my intention.
-Monica
October 28, 2017 at 8:29 am #175347AnonymousGuestDear Monica:
The italicized words that follow are words you chose to use during what I refer to as your temper tantrum of last: “I heard news about Gyunnie… it kills me … so much. I fall apart…He is … happy….While I am here. I am stuck. I lied to you, to him, even to myself. I don’t want him to be happy or ok. I want him to suffer, even as little as 1/10 of what I am feeling. I wish him to feel THIS pain that I am feeling. I am begging, pleading, wishing that he is not okay…Why am I the only one suffering? Feeling an unberable amount of pain, alone? Fighting a lonely battle with myself… I am NOT well. Very far from it…So I won’t be in so much pain”-
These words you used, “it kills me… I fall apart… as little as 1/10 or what I am feeling… THIS pain… the only one suffering… unbearable amount of pain, alone…I am NOT well. Very far from it… so much pain”-
These are dishonest expressions of your feelings, significantly exaggerated, for the purpose of drawing attention to yourself, empathetic attention. They are manipulative expressions.
One of the messages in your expressions is that you are alone, and lonely. As if I was not here for you, this whole time. Your message is that all my input did nothing to alleviate this enormous, unbearable pain you are suffering.
After such an anger tantrum, such exaggerated expression of your suffering, you feel better, relieved. Problem is… the audience pays the price for your relief.
In your recent post starting with “Anita, Sorry to make you feel like I was for “seeking” attention from your part…” you apologize but not really.
You wrote: “If I do this just to get attention … I would not be here. I would just seek attention somewhere else, in real life.”- this is real life, Monica. I am here, a person, as real as you.
You wrote: “I just feel like I connect with you pretty well, that is why sometimes when I post I do not think it through, I thought that this website is not some sort of a place where you have to think everything throughly before you post”-
I don’t speak for the website. I am not the owner. I speak for myself only. I am done communicating with you. You are welcome, as a fellow member on this website, to post anytime you’d like, on this thread or on any other thread. I will not be one commenting on your threads, that is all.
I am not here to be that place for you to relieve yourself from your distress aka your audience.
The advice you wrote that you have been seeking- I have given you a lot of that, a lot of my thinking. All you have to do is re-read our long communications. Be well.
anita
October 28, 2017 at 8:56 am #175357MinaParticipantAnita,
I understand, thanks for explaining.
You refuse to communicate with a person that somehow manipulates and is not honest in giving information and you also do not want me to come here (talk to you) just to relieve my distress.
I understand completely, again – I apologise. You might not accept it, I cannot blame you for not believing my apology, but I really am sorry, I was not aware that I was being manipulative and use a lot of words that offended you, and put you in an uncomfortable situation that made you suffered.
Thank you for all these time for communicating with me, those words are never meant in any way to hurt anyone, especially you. If I had known, I would have never posted such things. Thanks for being a friend since last June, I appreciate it, very much. Thank you. There were times when you were the only one who believed in me and support me. I hope you believe that my last post here is sincere, you are welcome not to reply to this post as well, as I respect your decision to not talk to me.
I will no longer post here, it was really nice talking to you. I hope you stay well, wishing you the best in your life.
-Monica
October 29, 2017 at 6:49 am #175413AnonymousGuestDear Reader:
I often write that interactions and relationships between people need to be Win-Win, win for both parties engaged. It is only this morning that it occurred to me what my Win in this communication with the original poster (OP) is a new understanding that I didn’t have before, an understanding that started to take hold yesterday but matured only this morning. I would like to develop this understanding here and share it with the reader. Following this post there will be one or more to follow, this very morning.
Yesterday, following my latest interactions with the OP I thought to myself: was I unfair to the OP, lacking empathy or patience with her on her time of need, by terminating the communication? Did I turn away from her at her time of experiencing pain?
Let’s look at her post from yesterday: the OP heard news about her ex boyfriend of four months, that he was planning to watch a music concert and seemed to look forward to it, happy about the anticipated event. Her response: “it kills me… so much. I fall apart… He is… happy. He is… doing well. He’s alive. He’s probably the happiest in his life right now, without me… he got accepted… he got his parents support and he is just living his life to the fullest. While I am here. I am stuck. … I don’t want him to be happy or ok. I want him to suffer…I am begging, pleading, wishing that he is not okay”
At this point what the OP is experiencing, clearly, is intense anger, rage. She wants him to suffer. She is troubled that he appears happy and that he is … alive.
In my response to the OP yesterday I wrote regarding her purpose, or motivation: “the purpose of drawing attention to yourself, empathetic attention“- and this is where I was wrong. Her motivation was not to draw empathetic attention, but to make another person suffer. Her motivation to make him suffer is so intense that she was “begging, pleading, wishing that he is not okay”.
On that same first post of yesterday, she wrote: “I want him to suffer, even as little as 1/10 of what I am feeling”- suggesting that her pain is enormous and one tenth of it would be pain enough.
She continued: “I wish him to feel THIS pain that I am feeling” – indicating via capital letters (THIS) how great her pain is.
She continues: “Why am I the only one suffering?”- she doesn’t want to be the only one suffering. She wants him to suffer too. This indeed is her motivation: to make him suffer.
She wrote: “Feeling an unberable amount of pain, alone”- notice, “unbearable” to describe her pain. And she continues: “Fighting a lonely battle with myself…I am NOT well. Very far from it”- again, capital letter, and “very far” to indicate the extreme nature of her pain, greater than any pain ever experienced by anyone.
In the past communications with the OP I didn’t see this, I thought she was honestly expressing her pain, that indeed it was great. Although I am sure she has been and is experiencing pain, in this post, her strong motivation is to make another person suffer.
She exaggerates her pain to deliver this message to the ex boyfriend: Suffer for THIS pain that you caused me! Suffer for the unbearable amount of pain! Suffer for me being NOT well. Suffer for me being Very far from (well)“!
Another post will follow.
anita
October 31, 2017 at 4:35 am #175851AnonymousGuestPost # 1, Dear Reader:
July 3, 2017, the OP wrote: “Hello guys. I just very recently had a break up, and even though we broke on good terms – I found myself to find the break up very hard to accept. Me and my ex are still very much good friends, we don’t contact each other but we know that we will always love and support each other. To give you a general background, he broke up with me due to the fact that he will move to another college and will also have to serve a mandatory military service for 2 years”.
On August 10, she wrote about that relationship: “it was a very mature and understanding relationship, even now we still have a very good relationship even though we are no longer in contact with each other…We broke up due to the circumstances that did not allowed the relationship to go any further”.
My understanding: the relationship was not “very mature and understanding”, not “a very good relationship”. Following the breakup they were not friends at all and definitely not “very much good friends”. Actually, there has been no contact between the two, and so there couldn’t have been “still ..a very good relationship”.
He broke up with her… cautiously, very cautiously so to save himself from her raging explosions (I refer to those as Rage). He did not only break up with her, he moved to another university, as physically far away from her as he could, so to save himself, to escape the danger that her Rage presented to him.
Once the break up took place, he has never contacted her. She contacted him twice online and he kept those two exchanges as short and as cautiously polite as can be.
October 9, she wrote: ” I hate the people not the school in general, and these strong periods of stress comes often (every 2-3 weeks) but NOT everyday” (her choice of using bold letters)
Every two or three weeks, she experiences and expresses a very “strong period of stress”, which is Rage. The most recent one recorded on this thread was on Oct 28: “He (her ex boyfriend) is … happy… I don’t want him to be happy or ok. I want him to suffer, even as little as 1/10 of what I am feeling. I wish him to feel THIS pain that I am feeling. I am begging, pleading, wishing that he is not okay …Why am I the only one suffering? Feeling an unberable amount of pain, alone?…Why?”
September 3, a bit of Rage: “I want to give my life to someone who actually has the passion to live.
I do not deserve to live… I pray to God sincerely for Him to gave my life away to someone maybe a mother or a father or a husband or a wife who is dying and still wants to live because they have so many people that loves them…”Sept 25, another bit of a Rage: “WHY? Why can’t I start new just like you (her ex boyfriend) as well? …Why can’t I have someone that will love me…WHY? Do I have to disappear and end it all for real so people will UNDERSTAND… I sound like a big bad monster”.
She shared on that day: “I have this really pure anger that makes me hate everyone. I wish that every single person that I dislike can disappear or go to hell. I wish they would suffer 100x times more than I have ever did in my 19 years of life. I will let them suffer if I can be happy again…”
Aug 16 she wrote: “If I were mean or vicious, I can email his (ex boyfriend) faculty right now or share it with my friends about how the Chairman of Student Council in Business School is depressed, and he is actually moving university soon abandoning his responsibility”- this, in context of all her sharing, indicates to me that she has often entertained thoughts and images of how she could possibly inflict pain on him.
anita
October 31, 2017 at 5:00 am #175853AnonymousGuestPost #2, Dear Reader:
October 10, she wrote: “I am really disappointed with my parents… they refused to helped me. When I needed them the most…I feel really betrayed, I feel really mad… The truth is, I am thinking about hurting myself (not enough to die but enough to get hospitalised) so my parents will have no choice but to come to Korea, and talk about this thing with me in a serious manner. I want them to listen, I want them to HELP me”-
This sharing is important for anyone to read so to see for themselves how talking about suicide, threatening it, making a gesture of it, these may be dishonest and manipulative, aimed to bring about a desired reaction from someone who cares or may care.
And this is the OP’s strategy throughout her months long threads: to abuse others’ empathy. She herself often lacks empathy for others. She takes a dishonest advantage of others’ ability to feel empathy. This is the reason she has been going on and on at times about how she is suffering, or claims to be suffering. This is why she has been using those exaggerated expressions of her suffering. One example of many is: “Maybe If by some kind of a miracle, I died and go to heaven, maybe I will finally be free of this pain…The only thing that beats is my heart, my soul is already dead” (Sept 3).
It is important to note this: there are plenty of people that abuse others’ empathy for their purposes, for their perceived advantage. It is something to be aware of and careful about when interacting with people.
anita
October 31, 2017 at 5:56 am #175859AnonymousGuestPost #3, Dear Reader:
Bits and pieces of things:
September 16, she wrote about her past relationship when it was active: “I wanted to watch a concert with him but he got a really huge assignment in English class, so we cancelled. Ok. I did not say anything big or throw a tantrum about it”-notice, she wrote that she didn’t throw a tantrum, not that time. On the other hand, when she found out that he was planning on attending a concert after their breakup, October 28, she did throw a tantrum right here on her thread: “He is coming to Seoul to watch a concert of his favorite rapper –…it kills me … so much. I fall apart, seeing his post about how excited he is that he even posted his concert ticket. He is … happy… I want him to suffer…”
August 13, she wrote: “These days, due to my depression, I have became pretty difficult to handle. Even my ex partner cannot really controlled my behaviour and feelings anymore”- indicating that indeed her behavior was uncontrollable in the context of that relationship and he could not control it.
“Things weren’t really good before we broke up” (Aug 13)
Sept 15, regarding her past relationship, when it was active: “I got mad…I also demanded him to celebrate our 1 month anniversary…I was being really clingy and refused to go home…I wanted to be only priority and the most important thing in his life.”
My summary: I could write more, there are many interesting things to examine and study in this OP’s threads. But I am tired. I want to place this OP in my past, to put her away in my distant memory. What I want to take out of this and share is the following:
1. When a person goes on and on about how much she/ he suffers, especially when using dramatic (stirring/ sensational/ startling expressions), ask yourself: is the person experiencing mostly hurt or anger? Is the person honestly expressing her pain or is she trying to take unfair advantage/abuse my empathy?
2. A person that Rages, like this OP does, is a dangerous person, one who does and will inflict pain and suffering on others. A child, exposed to Rage every two or three weeks will be significantly damaged, no doubt. It is very sad, for me, that this OP, twenty years old, is planning to get married and have children as soon as possible.
Men (and women)- be careful about a potential spouse and mother/parent of your children. Do not ignore or minimize Rage. This OP was very nice and polite to her ex boyfriend in between the Rage, in between her explosions of intense anger. Watch for patterns, for distress rising to the explosion point, relieved and then builds again until the next explosion.
3. If the OP is reading this, or someone who Rages every so often, as this OP is in the habit of doing, please do get help.
Following her last Rage, the OP wrote, Oct 28: “I asked for her (her mother’s) permission to go see a psychiatrist when I go back home next week”- I hope she does.
Unfortunately, in a post after the psychiatrist comment, she wrote: “The first post was I did not feel like it was a temper tantrum, as it was based on facts, that he did indeed purchased the concert ticket”- indicating an… unbelievable denial of the fact that the problem is not that he purchased a ticket to a music concert but that she reacted to it the way she did.
4. To close: she either feels inferior to others or superior. She feels disdain, contempt, to most people, looking down at them as her inferiors. Her Rage flows from that superior disdain. It is her Rage saying something like: “how unfair it is that I, superior to all, that I suffer? Why, others should suffer, not me! They are the inferiors, they are the nobodies (her word), they should suffer!
I must make them suffer!”
That Rage, it is powerful. And it harms and damages and creates lots and lots of pain. Beware.
anita
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