Home→Forums→Relationships→Depressed due to guilt and fear
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March 30, 2016 at 9:40 am #100483AnonymousGuest
Dear Ravi:
You do tend to see things in All or Nothing: you wrote above: “I only gave her pain..” It isn’t true. For three years she often enjoyed communicating with you, so you didn’t give her ‘only” pain.
I agree with what you wrote above “No matter what I am, does not change what i did”- this is why prisoner convicted of murder, often do not get released because they become good people, if they do. They can’t undo what they did. Fortunately, you did not commit such grave act to place you in prison.
Regarding your friend who betrayed your trust and had an accident, these two events are random. You know she did not have an accident because you were angry with her, don’t you? Just making sure you know that.
Regarding your father not saying anything… but yes, he does, only without words. This is what passive people do, say things only not directly. This way if you tell him: stop pressuring me to study, he can say: I didn’t pressure you. Did I say anything? No.
It is called Passive-aggressive: disapproval in a passive way, nothing that can be proven…
Assertive, Ravi, The Middle Path: not passive, passive aggressive (no one can be passive all the time, so the aggression must come out somehow) on one extreme and not openly aggressive on the other but Assertive.
anita
March 30, 2016 at 9:52 am #100484ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI agree, Anita. After all, our bond did not develop just like that… and I still have enough faith in it. Sadly the act of hurting a loved one with cruel words which go into their hearts like fiery knives, making them suffer death-like pain everyday as they feel the effects of it, is only a little short of as terrible as murder. And losing a loved one, especially one who means the world to you, due to your continuous and remorseless misdeeds is a punishment nearly as terrible as prison. Maybe even prison would be tolerable in comparison to this anguish.
Yes I do know the two incidents are unconnected. I just felt bad for my actions. And yup I’ve read about how the passive aggressiveness works. On such occasions I generally just tend to get up and walk away. Though here I do know he has a genuine reason to be worried. But with all this pressure in my head, studies are only intermittently possible for me, until that terrible crushing sensation begins.
March 30, 2016 at 10:11 am #100485AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
I know your words hurt Jerry but I don’t know the exact nature of her pain. I doubt it is exactly what you think it is: “like fiery knives… death like pain”- you don’t know that, you can’t possibly know that. You can only feel your pain and imagine she feels the same. But it is your pain you are feeling.
So your pain is like fiery knives. Your pain is death like, everyday, as terrible as prison.
You are strong then, to be living with this pain. You are enduring it and in so, you are displaying strength after all. I am glad for the last part, you displaying strength. It is nothing but strength, courage that is the reason you are able to endure such “crushing sensations.”
Please be aware of your strength together with the pain. You are not only hurting, you are also strong.
anita
March 30, 2016 at 10:28 am #100489ravi_zimmerfanParticipantTruthfully speaking, even I don’t know. Any human being would be terribly hurt by someone they love so much saying such things, that too countless times. All she said regarding this is, “he hurt me with all the bad words he used, but I’ll always pray for him and wish good for him”. After that whatever I heard she said has been regarding her shock about my changed feelings for her, not the fight we had. Of course she’s too sweet to tell others about what I did. Maybe it’s this suspense and the fact that she’s said so little and kept her true pain and magnitude of that pain quietly within herself, which makes it even more painful to me.
I had never really thought of it this way. That the pain I’m imagining her to be feeling, is the pain I’m feeling myself due to guilt and depression. That’s something quite profound you mentioned. But I don’t know if it’s strength or cowardice that I’m still here. Not too long ago I was Googling “painless methods of suicide” and what not hoping to just put an end to all this. But obviously I can’t. Because thankfully my dear family never even gave me pocket money in my life, so even if I have to buy a peanut, I need to ask them first. I can hardly walk up to them asking money to get poison (and ask dad to drive me there). Maybe because there still is a tiny shoot of hope in my heart that everything will be alright, that I’m holding on somehow.
These feelings of jealousy and insecurity I mentioned in my previous post, which I had felt were gone, also have me worried a lot. I’ve never been jealous of anybody in my life (unless you count those Einsteins in school I always got compared to during report card time… but that’s different), I don’t understand why I began to feel this way about her and her brother. Especially because this same inner voice which is now rebuking me for hurting her, had egged me on to behave abusively and caused all the chaos.
March 30, 2016 at 10:40 am #100490AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
I am sure your words hurt Jerry. The nature of her pain, the intensity of it regarding your words: how painful, how often she hurts over those words, and if she still, presently hurts over your words, that you cannot tell. If you were communicating with her and she told you honestly, then you would know. Otherwise, you simply don’t know. You are projecting your pain into her.
I did notice earlier something that was curious to me then: I think she was more offended by your “changed feelings” than she was about your abusive words. This is one of those things: you are focusing on the affect your abusive words had on her. In reality, she may be focused on your changed feelings, it being a problem for her.
What I am saying, is you make assumptions, you see what you are shining the light on: your abusive expressions of your anger. It is definitely something to continue to work on. But it may be that her focus, the light she is directing is not directed at your abusive anger, but at a different topic, that is your feelings for her.
None of this has a practical use for you now, but if you see the bigger picture, well, that is always good: to see beyond what you are focusing on.
Why you were jealous about her brother? Because she referred to you as her spiritual brother and you wanted to be one of a kind in her life, not a second brother but a first and only boyfriend, isn’t it so?
anita
March 30, 2016 at 10:59 am #100493ravi_zimmerfanParticipantThat’s true Anita. Though she keeps her feelings concealed, but from whatever I know, her focus since that day has been more on my changed feelings. Even before we had this fight, we were talking pretty normally when she found out about my feelings from our friend, and blocked me on messenger without warning. When I asked her on Facebook, she said she’s considering leaving as some things there depress her. Only after 2-3 days she told me that she sensed what I am feeling, it won’t work out and she did not expect this from me. She’s also extremely hurt that I shared my feelings with our friends. Had it not been for our fight, I don’t feel I’d be feeling this horrible because of my feelings alone. But of course my own focus is on my vile behaviour which hurt her.
Spiritual brother… I’m not sure whether I could’ve called myself that. But yes, “one of a kind” surely fits. I used to feel like, why couldn’t I be her only brother and have a unique place nobody else has? I know it’s selfishness. But ever since she talked to me about the loving bond she shares with her cousin brother, I don’t even understand why my mind slowly went haywire. Others I love as my sisters also have brothers, but I never felt this way for anyone else. The only explanation is, I had developed these romantic feelings (for lack of a better word) for her already and I just didn’t want to admit it to myself. When I saw photos of them hugging each other, I got this insane “get your hands off her!” feeling. I went to her FB profile and spent hours staring at her “family members” section where he was listed as her brother, and I wasn’t. I know she couldn’t do it as she couldn’t risk her family finding out about me, but it still was no less painful.
I kept checking all the time if he was online, and once he was, kept demanding her what she’s doing, why she’s not promptly replying to my messages. If she was offline, I felt she’s chatting with him on FB. If offline there, I felt she must be admiring his photos on Instagram. Later she even told me that on some instances where he was present in person, she was chatting with me despite him wanting to talk to her. She said this to show that she loves me as much and unlike me, he’s not insecure and didn’t start demanding if she doesn’t love him as she isn’t talking, for he knows she does. Despite such wonderful rational explanation by her, I could not stand her loving anyone else as brother. This inner demon did not leave me alone.
All this was before I had accepted that my feelings for her had become romantic and were no longer brotherly. I had a long silly argument with her about why blood relations aren’t everything, and she was saying that blood family always gets priority from everyone. After talking to someone, I realized that the plug was in the wrong socket. Because my feelings were romantic, naturally my primitive instincts felt “threatened” seeing her with a “competitor”. If my feelings were just brotherly, that wouldn’t have happened. I wish I had accepted that long back, so all this could’ve been avoided to a large extent.
March 30, 2016 at 1:35 pm #100508AnonymousGuestDear ravi:
Yes, it makes sense. A husband would not stand to see his wife with another man! There is a possessiveness, understandably in a romantic relationship, an expectation of exclusiveness. Even some animals are exclusive, such as some birds mate for life. So exclusiveness does happen in nature as well. It is understandable then, your jealousy. It is not strange or .. vile, on your part, but understandable and quite natural.
In my mind, it would have been unusual for you, as a young man, to have no romantic feelings or attraction for a young woman you really like and instead keep loving her in a … spiritual or brotherly way only. After all, you are not made of a … well, you are a man, after all.
Until your next post, take care!
anita
March 30, 2016 at 7:25 pm #100524ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI know. If it was indeed just brotherly feelings on my part, I doubt the possessiveness would’ve reached this level seeing her with her own blood brother. I should’ve heeded the signs and accepted the truth right then. But now I am not sure what to do. Even if she forgives me for the fight, she will definitely not accept my feelings; at least not anytime soon. She feels angry and betrayed that I loved her in this manner when she had considered me her brother. She is denying we ever shared anything special or personal in our bond, and seems to feel I misinterpreted some of her words/actions as romantic (which isn’t true). I had said that she doesn’t need to return my feelings and we can at least interact as good friends… but she didn’t reply. I don’t know how to proceed and rebuild our relation, if I’m blessed enough to be forgiven by her someday. Almost feels like a catch-22 situation or something. That still is a far way off as right now she’s completely aloof from me.
I had been hoping to send her a small message today expressing that I am remorseful and care for her, but in light of our friend’s accident, I don’t know if it’s right to do it as we’re all so worried for her.
March 30, 2016 at 7:40 pm #100525AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
Well, she is very young, younger than you. Maybe she is not experienced enough to know that it is was not a betrayal of her when you developed feelings for her… that you couldn’t help it, didn’t plan it. She doesn’t understand…I suppose. Of her perception that you betrayed her, you are not guilty.
If wishing was powerful…
anita
March 30, 2016 at 8:08 pm #100528ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI know. I guess she knows that in some way too, but now that she knows I have feelings, she is no longer comfortable talking to me. This plus that fight we had… a double issue now. My friends say I should give her time to recover from this and wait patiently for her to be ready to talk again. If I send her something, she may not reply at all, reply with just a curt “thanks” or even my worst fear, tell me directly or indirectly to stay away from her life and never contact her again (her usual way of telling me to be away is “your studies are more important, go and study and forget me”. She kept saying that last month… one reason I’ve started to hate studies). I am afraid my inner demon might again interpret her words forcefully as offensive and the hell breaks loose again. Even now it tells me, “why are you so worried? She must’ve forgotten you and must be happy with her brother and others. You’re a loser and not good enough for her.” I’m tired of this internal dialogue.
March 30, 2016 at 8:19 pm #100529AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
Maybe it is better you don’t contact her… you did before the festival and she didn’t reply to you since that contact, isn’t it so? So better not contact her again. You were very depressed after that message you sent her. You kept looking for a reply from her, waking up in the morning and looking… you were most depressed soon after you sent her that message. Recently it looked to me like you recovered a bit. I wouldn’t want to see you going through the same things again: sending her a message, hoping and waiting and hoping…
Better not. I wish things were different. I wish you and her were holding hands and walking into the sunset… or sunrise. Oh, that would be lovely, to imagine Ravi with the woman he loves. A wonderful sight in my mind. And I am sure it is in yours.
Better keep that sight in mind and not test it by sending her another message, I think.
anita
March 30, 2016 at 8:40 pm #100531ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI don’t feel it’s of any use keeping that imaginary sight in mind, which will just cause more pain. 🙁 Truthfully, I’m not imagining anything of that sort right now. I just wish we were back on talking terms at least first. Enough to send a good morning/night to each other or something. The rest I can worry about later. I was considering sending her the message via a friend, so she may or may not be quiet. But I don’t feel her reply will be positive either. It hurts whether I try to contact her or stay away. I don’t know what to do.
March 30, 2016 at 9:02 pm #100534AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
I am at a loss on this point. I don’t like you suffering either way. I am afraid that you will feel worse if you contact her. Other than that, it may turn out to be the right move somehow, bringing some resolution. I don’t know.
I don’t know. I just.. don’t know. I do know I am concerned about your well being and am reminding you that you want to give the May testing your best shot. This is your own goal, so maybe don’t contact her until after the testing???
Till tomorrow, good night:
anita
March 31, 2016 at 5:26 am #100548ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI know. Even I was thinking the same… or rather my inner voice was saying, why are you persisting when she must be happily enjoying her life, she’s not bothering to talk to you. Give her time and she’ll contact you if she wants, otherwise it’s her choice. But I know that this thinking is wrong because for 3 years she quietly put up with all my misbehavior and only now, after I crossed limits, has she stopped talking. I cannot do the “sour grapes” thing, pretending it’s her choice when in fact I caused it, that too the most prized relation in my life after my parents. Also, the male in any relation is expected to be confident, understanding and assertive; I’ve been none of those. It truly is a really tough situation with both action and inaction being painful… the latter most definitely.
March 31, 2016 at 7:00 am #100551AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
It has been 16 days we have been corresponding about Jerry, 3/26-3/31, 11 pages, lots and lots of posts. I went myself as far as imagining you and her walking hand in hand toward the sunset yesterday. This means I lost my hold on reality and delved into your fantasy, my version of your fantasy (since in your fantasy all that happens is a resuming of online correspondence with her).
Why fantasy? Because your online relationship with Jerry did not make you stronger, confident, independent…it just made you feel better at times but left no mark on your character.
There is no better Ravi for Jerry.
Her main and maybe only reason for ending communication with you is that you expressed your love for her beyond that of a brother. Now the cat is out of the box, so I don’t see a way to push the cat back in. Both of you know and can’t un- know that you have possessive feelings for her, such as a boyfriend would have for a girlfriend.
I am extricating myself from your fantasy because it did not make you a better person while it lasted, and is not making you a better person after it ended. It is not even giving you comfort. It is doing nothing but distress you. It is an obsession.
I don’t want to discuss Jerry with you anymore. I don’t want to read a single thing about Jerry.
I will not engage in what makes you sick, this obsession, now that I see it as clearly as I do. I think I gave you good input in posts before and you can re-read those. But nothing new from me.
If your obsession persists, and your distress is intense, there are psychiatric medications that can help alleviate the obsessive thinking and distress. Good psychotherapy is always my first option.
you can write to me about any other thing and you can refer to your obsession as .. your obsession, a sickness. We can talk about how to heal from this sickness.
Take good care of yourself:
anita
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