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December 21, 2016 at 8:07 am #123194
JohnParticipantHi Anita,
Great Advice about my mother’s yelling and it being inconvenient to her. I can’t tell you how many times we (my two sisters and I) have told her to stop yelling and she doesn’t. She takes my niece and nephew to school, so she sees them everyday. It’s bizarre, she yells at me niece way more more, but that’s a different issue.:) My mother is totally not compassionate about the harm that was done to me as a child. When I told her that it’s very clear that I have C-PTSD, she just said that I need “to learn to cope and manage it”. Maybe she doesn’t want to address it. With that being said, I’ve read most of one of Pete Walkers articles on Grieving.
I’m going to have to learn how to grieve on my own for the time being…I’m hoping that I can really dig deep and get a good cry out…We’ll see.
As far as SHARE goes, I spoke to volunteer there (who must be going through her shit) as she wasn’t very helpful. She said there were classes on PTSD on the bulletin board but she wouldn’t get them for me. I looked online at their calendar and didn’t see any classes for it.
I had a very nice therapist call me back from a clinic (that I can’t remember the name of) and told me to check out:
National Alliance for Mental Illness, and Southern California Counceling Center for CPTSD. She said that good forms of therapy to look for are: Trauma Resiliance Model, Somatic Experiencing, and EMDR. I also have ADD and Depression and that I should check out support groups for these issues. So, I’m going to look at this as an adventure and explore these other support groups as well. SHARE has support groups for these, and I will check them out.Its been a very very busy week for me as I’ve been really sick (still sick), my mothers birthday tonight, and helping cook for 30 people for christmas…It’s a lot…:)
Thank you Anita for all your help, it’s really appreciated! 🙂
December 21, 2016 at 8:26 am #123195JohnParticipantHi Anita,
One other thing…My mother constantly calls/texts me…Every time I get a communication from my mother, it sends a shock up my spine. I feel like a little boy and I’m not a man. And to be honest, I blame myself for that. Since I’m choosing not to work (I feel paralized about work), I feel totally stuck here, at my moms house. I for sure don’t feel like a man…I feel like a castrated little boy. I’ve talked to her about the constant texts/emails, (which are simple things, like if I want to have breakfast), but I wake up to that and it instantly punches me in the gut. I get more mad at myself for not taking care of myself which then leads me into a depression for the next two days. The thing is, this anger, resentment to myself, and self sabotaging is more frequent then ever. I am getting worse, not better. Hopefully by going to support groups, this will calm me down.Thanks again for listening Anita! 🙂
December 21, 2016 at 9:03 am #123198
AnonymousGuestDear surfingwig:
Maybe another volunteer at SHARE would be more helpful. Maybe not. A different volunteer, more competent, can make all the difference.
Regarding your mother and her grandchildren: she is harming them. Your siblings need to protect their children from your mother- it is their job and responsibility.
Clearly, you need to move away from your mother. Clearly, you need to see that she has been and is against you. She is not a friend, not on your side. This is hard for a child-and an adult child- to accept. “My own mother is not for me, but against me- how can it be?”
It can be and is. For as long as you don’t see this clearly, you will be stuck and your view about who you are will be distorted. There is this “separation-individuation” stage in child development psychology. When your view of your mother is so different from reality, you don’t quite make it through this stage.
What do you think?
anita
December 21, 2016 at 11:06 am #123215JohnParticipantWow Anita,
That’s a hard pill to swallow, but it makes sense. I know that my mother loves me and she would do “almost” anything for me, so it’s a tough one to get my hands around. And I will do my best! I never thought of her as against me, but that’s been my biggest issue. I would say, “If you truly loved me, you would stop yelling”…I don’t think she’s aware of her nervousness, micro-managing, and stress she brings into the environment. Regardless, I will take this on! I need to break this dysfunctional bond if I want to grow…:)I’ll look up “seperation-individuation” see what’s that all about.
As far as my niece and nephew are concerned, I talked to my sister on the phone today and explained what is happening (our mom bitching to my sisters kids). My sister doesn’t want to screw up her children and started to cry. She said that our mother is constantly ragging on her and makes my sister feel like she’s a bad mother. And to top it off, her kids like to go to their grandmothers house. they get to watch TV nonstop and my mom makes them food every morning and takes them to school, (my sister drops them off in the morning).
Now, what’s tough about this, is my mother would give her life for her children. We know that she doesn’t mean to harm us, but she is. She’s not yelling 24/7, but her energy is bad enough that I don’t want to be near her. My one sister thinks I’m overly sensitive and I don’t sugarcoat things, which makes me sound insensitive. Who knows, she is ultra codependent with my mother which makes it really hard to tell her about our mother because she always defending her.
Sounds like one happy bunch of dysfunctional family memebers…:)
Thank you again! You are really helping me see things through a different lens.
December 21, 2016 at 11:27 am #123217JohnParticipantAnita,
I haven’t mentioned my father yet. He’s a super cool guy, and everyone loves him. But him and his wife (they have been together for almost 30 years), never really ask me anything about my life. As long as we’re talking about cooking, camping, gardening, etc. we’re great. But when I open up to them, they don’t know what to do with it. I know my father is a hundred times better then his father though and maybe thats all I can ask for.
I use to sell real estate in Beverly Hills and had some huge successes. My parents never asked any questions about their house they were selling or buying, (but I did refer them a great agent). I think my father is bummed that we don’t talk business (sales), since I quit every sales job I ever had. He talks to my brother in-law about sales, which I’m totally OK with.
My father also blamed me for my ex-wife leaving which was crushing since he didn’t know why she left. I had a huge talk with him about this and how I feel he did’t have my back, which he totally didn’t get.
I have learned to come to grips that my dad is doing the best job he knows how. It just doesn’t feel like he has my back, (which he would beg to differ). So I have come to believe that as long as I talk about the mentioned above, things will be OK. I just get bummed still that he doesn’t really ask me how I’m really doing, Inside.I have no idea if this has had any impact on me, but I thought you should about both parents…:)
thank you again for all your help!
December 21, 2016 at 11:36 am #123222AnonymousGuestDear surfingwig:
When you wrote in the first paragraph above that you don’t think she is aware, basically, that she is harming you and her grandchildren, what it means to me is that you think that as long as she is not aware that she is harming, that means she is loving.
Let’s look at this: let’s say a person is stabbing you with a knife. You bleed and die. Do you bleed less or … die less if the person stabbing you was on a psychotic episode and later doesn’t remember he stabbed you?
If you bleed and die just as much, if the person doing the stabbing is aware- or not, does it matter, his awareness or lack of? If the results are just as harmful to you, does it matter?
Most people, the great majority of people, if not all, are not as aware as they could be. And so..? The reason that not-guilty-for-reasons-of-insanity had to be very restricted in the courthouse, to instances of complete unawareness, is that everyone is unaware to one extent or another.
Back to your mother: When you were a boy and she yelled at you, you reacted fearfully. Your fear showed in your face and your behavior. She saw your reaction because she has eyes and she continued. She continues with at least one (or both) of her grandchildren. After you asked. After you told her in words.
Why does she do it? Because she is so inclined and it is difficult to stop doing what you are inclined to do. It is difficult to change a habit. Not impossible, mind you, but difficult.
She micromanages you with her frequent texts and you think this is evidence that she loves you? I think it is evidence that she is anxious.
You wrote: “is my mother would give her life for her children”- I doubt it- she wouldn’t even give up a habit.
You wrote: “We know that she doesn’t mean to harm us”- I suppose she would have preferred it when she is not yelling, that her yelling (past and future) would not harm you. If it was up to her, she would magically make it so that you were mentally healthy now. Notice, I used “magically”- she won’t stop yelling because it can’t be done magically, easily.
Her grandchildren are paying a high price for the food she makes them and the TV she lets them watch. And whatever benefits you are experiencing living with her, you too are paying the highest price.
Your sister defending your mother (as you do too, in different words maybe) is what children, minor and adult do- defending, protecting their mother. Nice if that was mutual.
anita
December 21, 2016 at 12:53 pm #123234JohnParticipantAnita!
You rock girl…I agree with you on all fronts. I guess I was giving you both sides to the story…defending her and bashing her, (figuratively). You are so right…Now what? Trust me, I was fine leaving her years ago when I had the means. I’m currently stuck financially, which frustrates me that I am choosing (in a very distorted way), so not work and leave the guest house. Several years ago I was seeing a therapist for three years and he just told me to get a job, any job and move out of my mothers guest house ASAP! The tough love approach doesn’t work with me, nor doesn’t “if you want it bad enough, you’ll find a way”. I rebel against those approaches.You are totally right though and thats one of the bizarre things…Why my mother keeps yelling after I tell her “you’re killing me inside, you just can’t see it” would and does blow me away. It’s like, “I can’t be anymore clear as to what the yelling does to me, and yet, she still does it”. I’ve even told her, “If you really love me, you’ll stop yelling”…
OK, enough with the excuses and backstory…The truth is I need to move of here. So, what do I do in the meantime to keep me sane and heal if possible? It’s almost like I’m meant to stay here in some fucked up way until I resolve or heal myself from her. Who knows…
But I’m not afraid to confront her. I believe that I had to take responsibility for my own actions and stop blaming things on her, which is why I don’t put it on her.I appreciate you being so blunt and strong about this Anita. It’s really helping me see that it’s her and not me. It will help to stop reacting to her, I hope…:) Baby steps…But so that you know, I’ve spent years trying to work on my relationship with my mother, but it doesn’t seem to change. I’m not afraid of her, I will do whatever it takes to heal! It’s either that or I wither away and I have so much to do in my life!
Is the first step to acknowledge that she contributed mostly to my affliction? I don’t want to give her 100% responsibility because I feel I need to take some responsibility in my actions and behaviors. But who knows, maybe that’s whats stopping me from healing.
It’s important for me to tell you, that I am trusting your judgement (a total stranger), because I want to heal and kick ass in life, and that your words are resonating with me, (regardless of me not accepting them at first).
Anita, thank you for taking a stand for me!
December 21, 2016 at 1:05 pm #123235JohnParticipantAnita,
I just reread your response to me, (for the third time) and need to clarify one thing…When my mother texts me, I don’t look at it as a way her showing her love to me, just the opposite…It instantly triggers me and wants her to stop texting me! I hate waking up early in the morning and there is a text from her. It’s just a constantly reminder that I can’t take care of myself (living in her guest house) and that I’m not a man. I feel guilty for feeling that! My older co-dependent sister says I should be compassionate towards my mother and that I’m to brash with our mom. I feel that nobody truly understands the pain that her yelling causes me, even my older sister.What is the payoff for me in this situation?…I will tell you this, at 44, I’m just going deeper, darker and more depressed with my life and my situation of choosing not to work. I wish it was as simple to switch my thinking and kick ass at work, but I’m actually getting more debilitated in my work life, and love life.
Thanks again, you’re doing great work here with me…:)
December 21, 2016 at 1:42 pm #123240AnonymousGuestDear surfingwig:
About responsibility: your mother is responsible directly for your dysfunction past and present (and future)- she caused it, hence she is responsible. You would have been a different person, living a different life if you had a loving, sensible mother.
Regarding healing, that is your responsibility simply because you are the only one able and willing to heal your person and life.
It is the understanding of the first paragraph but rejecting the second that is ineffective. But both are true.
Sure it is not easy- healing is the most difficult task there is. It takes time and a whole lot of work, perseverance, extreme gentleness with yourself and patience with the process.
I too do not believe in tough love in your situation. You already got tough love your whole childhood (yelling is tough, isn’t it? It certainly is not gentle!) You need gentleness and patience.
Your sister, saying you need to have compassion for your mother- no, you need compassion for yourself. You can’t afford giving her more compassion than you already have. Let your mother go, mentally, she has shown very little compassion for you for decades. She is not your friend.
What to do now? Prepare yourself for the long haul. One step at a time. Every time you think of your mother- let it go. No longer try to communicate with her, to make her understand: it adds to your misery and keeps you stuck. Do not try to make your siblings understand- they are unwell themselves. Gravitate to people who are healthy enough. Notice how you spend your time and energy every day and stop doing the things that have proven ineffective. This will leave you with the time, and energy available to do different things, to spend your time otherwise.
This would be a start- so notice, ask yourself at different times of the day: what am I doing? Where is my time and energy going? And post again. And you are welcome!
anita
December 22, 2016 at 6:45 am #123290AnonymousGuestDear surfingwig:
I missed your post about your father.
You wrote: “my dad is doing the best job he knows how.”- if I had a dollar for every time I hear an adult child saying: my parent did the best he/ she could, why… I would be able to buy a house in the fancy part of Beverly Hills. This is something people say, a whole lot, but what does it mean? Does it mean that a badly done job is retroactively made better by this statement? A badly done job is a badly done job.
You wrote: “It just doesn’t feel like he has my back, (which he would beg to differ).” And so, if he begs to differ, you may be wrong feeling he doesn’t have your back?
And you wrote: “So I have come to believe that as long as I talk about the mentioned above(cooking, camping, gardening, etc.), things will be OK. I just get bummed still that he doesn’t really ask me how I’m really doing, Inside.” – it is a shame. If you had ONE good enough parent, then your life would have been much better. Clearly, talking about cooking, camping and gardening didn’t benefit you. How wonderful it would have been if you had someone to talk to about how you were “really doing, inside”.
anita
December 23, 2016 at 6:38 am #123364
BJParticipantFor months and months I’ve been reading this board, and enjoyed doing so. But I identify so much with what surfingwig is going through that I had to create an account and chime in.
surfingwig,
I’m in a very similar situation – had alot of bad experiences with supervisors/bosses throughout my work career – resulting in some kind of CPTSD, can’t find the right career path to suit my personality and skill set, money getting extremely short, and trying to hold onto some kind of hope that there’s an answer. It is very frustrating not having the finances to move forward with your life and relationships. It feels like you’re sitting inside of a prison cell and there appears to be no key.
I’m learning alot just by reading your dialogue with Anita. Until we can figure out how to deal with this stuff, all I can say is thank God for parent’s guest houses/guest rooms.
December 23, 2016 at 6:58 am #123367JohnParticipantSummerbreeze,
thank you so much for reaching out! It’s so great to hear that there is someone else out there that also feels my pain, (Anita, I also know you feel my pain, and you are so awesome!).I have also felt trapped inside my own personal prison. It’s challenging when all my friends are doing very well and having families and I’m having issues filling my tank and buying groceries. As Anita pointed out earlier, as much as I felt that I had a block, I didn’t know what it was and where it came from. Anita went straight into my childhood, and she was right! So know, I’m dealing with mother and father and trying to figure out where to go from there, (as she was correct in her advice about my parents).
I can’t really give you any advice as I’m in thick of learning about CPSTD and where to go from here. I will join some support groups on other issues I have: ADD and Depression and I’m looking for a support group for CPTSD in Los Angeles. I’ve joined other boards, but Anita has given me the most eye opening and rich advise, period!
I am so happy that you’re learning from this thread and it inspired you to join!!
I am just curious. How do feel at work? What is it that drives you crazy with your bosses?
But to be honest, I’m not sure it matters at this point, maybe later down the road. Based on Anita’s advice, Look at your childhood, how was it? Anita really had a “come to Jesus” with me in regards to my parents. I knew they loved me, but their love wasn’t enough. I needed/need my mother to stop yelling, being so anxious, making me nervous and stop treating me like a child. And for my father to have deep conversations with me about my feelings. Now I’m at a point of seeing the light, of how much of an impact it made (and still does in my life) and how to deal with them (and myself) from here on out.Stay in the game here! Nothing hasn’t worked for me yet, (medication helps deal with my issues, but doesn’t get to the root of them), so with minimal means at my disposal, this board has been the best advice yet!
I wish you a great Holiday Season and hang in there, we’ll get through this!…:)
December 24, 2016 at 4:49 pm #123505BJParticipantSurfingwig,
It’s interesting that you mention that. Similar to your experiences with your mother yelling, my father was very strict in my upbringing. He yelled at me, and would physically discipline me – sometimes deserved, sometimes undeserved. I think these experiences created some kind of weird “runaway” response whenever I feel I’ve been treated unfairly.
When I’m on a job and I feel that I’ve been treated unfairly by a supervisor, I just lose all passion to continue with the job and quit. It’s like what the heck – I bust my butt, I go above and beyond to make sure my responsibilities are fulfilled, and if I make a mistake I admit to it and do my best to learn from it – and in spite of all that, I’m getting this unjust treatment? Screw this.
Also, I hate the butt-kissing aspect. Everybody having to kiss somebody else’s behind to move up in the ranks. I feel like I can’t truly be myself in this type of environment.
What were your feelings when you were on jobs? Out of the 25 jobs you had, which were your favorites? Also what was your college training in? You said you were president of your frat, so clearly you have leadership skills.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by
BJ.
December 24, 2016 at 6:50 pm #123516JohnParticipantHey Summerbreeze,
First off I would to say sorry for being yelled at, and physical discipline, that just really sucks and no child should go through that.Yes, it’s great having the guest house…And I do appreciate it very much…I just need to get out of there, I just don’t how yet…If I get a job, I totally don’t trust myself in keeping it.
I totally feel you on the job front! I have very similar feelings about my bosses…I will go above and beyond at jobs, but as soon as I didn’t any positive or feedback in general, I lose all drive and say “fuck you”. It really seems that I have an issue of being micro-managed as well. When I was in real estate, I loved that nobody told me what to do or at what time be there. But that came with a high price: I had to sell (85% of the time), deal with clients, (and my clients liked me…Mostly). I got a paycheck of over 200k one time and it was more of a relief then pumped up and excited. I felt like I was pretending being in Real Estate. I was not myself at all!
I’m even very recently looking in the mirror and say, “who are you?”…My anger episodes and getting more frequent and I know my behavior is making my mother upset. I’m actually rapidly declining as to my identity and positivity. Help!..:)
I’m really hoping that more talks with Anita will help point me in the right direction even more.Summerbreeze, I don’t how old you are, but I’m 44. I have really noticed that my life is slipping by and I’m watching it happen, but feel too frozen to do anything about it. After being on this board and my talks with Anita, I’m seeing my parents in a different light and I don’t how to deal with that right now for the holidays. My dad is 3 blocks away tonight (and he lives 2.5 hours away), and I declined the invitation for dinner tonight at my sisters house. It would be so hard to sit there (when I know he won’t ask me how I’m really doing) and that fake behavior that “nothing is wrong”, is making me feel sick. I’ve been cooking for days for a huge Christmas dinner tomorrow, and I don’t want to talk to anybody! I don’t know how to bullshit while I’m figuring out how to deal with my parents behavior, (past and present). Thank god I’ll be smoking a turkey near my guest house, so won’t have to talk much.
How are you with your family in general?
How are the holidays for you?December 24, 2016 at 7:02 pm #123518AnonymousGuestDear surfingwig:
Merry Christmas. To thine own self be true these holidays and forever more. You will have a whole lot to live for if you no longer dilute yourself with untruths, fakeness, pretending, etc. Write me here anytime (you can have more than one conversation on the thread, if you want).
anita
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Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine. 