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August 20, 2018 at 12:57 pm #222247

miranam
Participant

As for the question about my choice for the rest of my life: I don’t think I have an option. What is the alternative? Break the hearts of my husband and my son? Being hated by son for my choice for the rest of my life and spend the rest of my days alone? This does not sound like a happy end…

August 21, 2018 at 1:46 am #222289

Prash
Participant

Dear Miranam,

Situations similar to your life situation are far too common. A focus on what could have been and what is missing often saps away at valuable energy that is better put to use in a creative and productive manner. Instead of looking at alternatives make the current situation something that you consider as an active choice, a choice that you have consciously taken and focus on putting your best in to it irrespective of how the others in your life respond.

Best wishes

August 21, 2018 at 11:39 am #222391

Anonymous
Guest

Dear miranam:

I want to attend to just one thing on this post, and ask you about just that one thing:

You wrote in your second recent post, “What is the alternative? Break the hearts of my husband “-

how can you break your husband heart if he doesn’t have a heart for you?

Be it for laziness or meanness, for him, your feelings don’t matter… so where is that heart you are afraid to break?

anita

August 21, 2018 at 4:35 pm #222445

miranam
Participant

Dear Anita and Prash,

Interesting enough you advice the opposite. And it expresses so eloquently my internal struggle.

Prash, rationally this is exactly whar I am saying to myself: “miranam, stop dreaming. You are 48, a mature woman, you should have known by now that the are dreams and there is reality. They so often don’t match. Many people settle for less. You have a good, reliable husband. You know he will be there for you if you got sick, he is just lazy and not enthousiastic. In addition, look at you. Who would ever take care and be empathetic to such bossy and controlling woman like yoursel. You’d better work on you and lower your expectation towards others.”

Then, when going through some (emotionally) tough time, I don’t see him tnere for me, I am inclined to think like Anita. What is the point? I have been with him for 22 years now. How can he ignore my feelings? How come he is so unsupportive? Means, I wasted all these years and haven’t built anything…

Anita, he misses me when I am away on a business trip. He often says “I love you”. What if he is simply cannot be this strong man I want him to be? What if he has no ability to be a strong shoulder that I can lean on? Or what if all that is my fault? And the broken heart… It can be broken even if the love is selfish… can’t it?

August 21, 2018 at 10:51 pm #222475

Prash
Participant

Dear Miranam,

Different life situations, different circumstances, different thought processes – lead to opinions that differ. Like you wrote, in the same person different situations evoke different thinking process. It is helpful to understand that nothing is permanent – the way we think, the way we feel, the way we behave seems to be in a dynamic flux.

I have come across a psychotherapeutic process called acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT). I am yet to go in to details but initial reading of it seems to make sense and may help in some of your situations.

Let me know what you think of it.

Take care

August 21, 2018 at 11:00 pm #222481

Prash
Participant

*Re-posted

Dear Miranam,

Different life situations, different circumstances, different thought processes – lead to opinions that differ. Like you wrote, in the same person different situations evoke different thinking process. It is helpful to understand that nothing is permanent – the way we think, the way we feel, the way we behave seems to be in a dynamic flux.

I have come across a psychotherapeutic process called acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT). I am yet to go in to details but initial reading of it seems to make sense and may help in some of your situations.

Let me know what you think of it.

Take care

August 22, 2018 at 5:01 am #222501

Anonymous
Guest

Dear miranam:

“Such bossy and controlling woman”? You don’t come across like such to me, not throughout your threads. You’ve been reasonable, sensible, very attentive to and respectful of differing opinions and input, gracious to all who replied to you.

Look how you responded in your most recent post to two members with opposite advice: “you advice the opposite. And it expresses so eloquently my internal struggle”- you considered both, not rejecting either and answered appreciatively and respectfully to both … the opposite of bossy and controlling.

When we spend way too much time in a relationship that is harmful to us, we make cognitive adjustments (cognitive distortions, that is) so to survive it best we can: he is not so bad, must be my fault… he does say I-love-you, he is not that cold, he is only lazy, not unloving, not his fault. Must be my fault. I am bossy and controlling.

As intelligent and rational as you are, miranam, you make the same cognitive adjustments a child makes when stuck with an unloving parent, taking the blame, seeing the parent in the best possible way, no matter how untrue.

Another adjustment you make best you can is to put yourself at the margins of your own experience, as not important, literally you placed yourself in parenthesis on page 1: “(Did I mention how low and hopeless towards life in general do I feel?)”

In 2015 you wrote about him: “he is very selfish, even if he comes across as not being so”. I trust your observation made then. But isn’t it interesting, you wrote that he comes across as not selfish, to others, one would think. But no, one of your cognitive adjustments is to believe it yourself, that he is not selfish after all, just like he comes across.

In your most recent post you wrote: “he misses me when I am away… He often says ‘I love you’… And the broken heart… It can be broken even if the love is selfish…can’t it?”

I trust your evaluation from 2015: “All that matters for him is to feel good”, which is congruent with your very last words in your most recent post: “even if the love is selfish”.

To your question, can a heart be broken even if it is selfish- my answer is, every person is in pain sometimes, and pain feels the same for a selfish person as it does to the unselfish. The good and the bad experience pain the same. But having a heart, figuratively to me, means that he cares about you. And he doesn’t have a heart, not for you. So it can’t be broken.

He misses you when you travel because he is missing something that is there. He wants that something back. And he says I-love-you because it happens to be easy to say it and it brought him good results before, makes him feel good about himself… saying something like this to himself: I am a good man, a good husband, I told her that I love her.

More effort than the pronouncing of I-love-you, oh, that is too much, it doesn’t feel good to go that route. So he doesn’t. And he doesn’t have to. He still has this something that is there, so he must be doing just enough to keep that something there.

You brought up lowering your expectations as a solution, I don’t think it is possible for a person to lower their expectations to that level of becoming okay with being a something that is there. I don’t think it was possible to be okay with that when you married him at 26, nor was it possible at 36, nor will it be possible at 56 or 66.

anita

August 22, 2018 at 3:07 pm #222607
miranam
Participant
Dear anita,

It feels so good to read your generous feedback about me. The woman you describe is a model, an ideal I aspire to become. Truth to be told, I am not controlling and bossy for the sake of self affirmation, but mostly out of care, or worry, or anxiety. Being leader and perfectionist by nature, I am very demanding towards myself an, consequently, towards others. This is natural and automatic for me. Few years ago I came to the realization that this is a big shortcoming and I was working ever since on the self improvement in this area. This is really hard. The hardest part is to catch yourself the moment you start controlling as it happens suddenly and automatically. Another issue is to differentiate an unhealthy control with the healthy one (proper son education or a relevant advice). The fine line is almost invisible.

Your words go straight to my heart. And I agree with you totally. However, I was practicing with more or less success the concept of the acceptance. Radical acceptance or ACT. Was challenging my need of feeling loved. And it works sometimes. Especially because I am a happy and optimistic person by nature. My natural state is feeling good. But… there is this something so important which is missing and which I long for. If I could eradicate this need I would be perfectly happy. I would work hard to achieve complete emotional independence. I know it is just another dream.

Ok, let’s set aside the heart of my husband for a moment. What about my son and his heart, his teen years? And how am I supposed to feel happier by my own for the rest of my life? This marriage was my life project and I will put a final signature on its failure.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by miranam.
August 23, 2018 at 10:14 am #222747

Anonymous
Guest

Dear miranam:

“If I could eradicate this need I would be perfectly happy”- can you define “this need” as specifically as you can?

“This marriage was my life project and I will put a final signature on its failure”- If it is a failure, it is a failure regardless of your awareness (signature) of its failure lagging behind.

Regarding your “son and his heart, his teen years”- what will he lose if you separated from your husband and what will he gain, is the question. I think the answer requires some time and contemplation.

anita

August 25, 2018 at 11:33 am #223041

miranam
Participant

Dear anita,

I gave it some thought.

You are right. My family life feels like a complete failure. All my dreams and the way I pictured it, all the efforts I put in it failed. It has its repercussion for the way I feel about life in general. Nothing brings me joy and I oscillate between the deep sadness and the forced “acceptance”.

My relationship with my husband is one sided. If I provide him with comfort, it works, but as soon as I am in need, he distance himself from me. He does not put any effort into care about me.

My relationship with me younger son isn’t good either. He always was rebellious and difficult kid. I tried to educate him to be caring, but my husband did not support me in it. The result, in his 13 he is very self-absorbed, arrogant and selfish. I don’t believe it is the teenager’s issue, I see other teens communicating with their mothers. They are much more respectful.

I suffer in my family. Anything I plan goes wrong, we always end up in argument. I cry, my son apologize and it re-start. We don’t have good memories, not good traditions. I was and probably still am in denial. Having a good family was the most important thing for me and I failed. Nothing else is important.

I don’t know what to live for anymore. It hurts tremendously. I am not suicidal, but I want all this nightmare named “life” to not last very long. I hope it won’t.

August 25, 2018 at 7:09 pm #223061

Prash
Participant

Dear Miranam,

I feel sad to read this kind of post from a person whose insightful posts has motivated so many others.

Is there a possibility that what you have described in the above post is something that is referred to as filtering, disqualifying the positive and probably magnifying the negative.

While things may not be right, is it really true that everything in life is a complete failure? It usually never is and I hope and pray that you are able to see the brighter side.

Take care

August 25, 2018 at 8:10 pm #223063

miranam
Participant

Dear Prash,

What can I say… Yes and no. Not everything in life is total failure. I have a professional success. A house. I am not in debt.

I am not sick, nor anyone close to me is. Nobody is dying. I live in a great and stable country. There is no war.

I am just not loved by anyone. Just that. All the people in my life are just taking. I give with joy, from the bottom of my heart. However, it doesn’t mean I don’t need some reciprocity at time. I do. but I don’t get it. It makes me feel lonely, hopeless and unhappy.

August 25, 2018 at 11:54 pm #223069

Prash
Participant

Dear Miranam,

I totally understand the need for reciprocity. But as I understand your situation, you are looking for it from sources who cannot be relied on giving it to you. Isn’t that setting yourself up for disappointment? Are you likely to get it for certain from any other source?

The only person who you can rely to be your complete and total source of love is yourself. That is who you should live for. That is who you should care the most about.

You may need to reprioritize your values and do more for yourself. Maybe push down family on the priority list and make caring for yourself the number 1 priority.

Take care

August 26, 2018 at 1:23 am #223071

miranam
Participant

Dear Prash,

Thank you for keeping posting for I feel supported and it feels easier.

I don’t really have other sources. Just my therapist. When we started our sessions about a year ago, I formulated my goal as to be able to reach emotional independence. Not being affected by anyone. Not rely on anyone emotionally. I would do anything to reach this state of mind for I am so drained. He is in psychodynamic area. Before him, I worked with CBT therapist. No success. I still find myself at the same place. There is zero improvement.

Now, Prash, if I am not to get love and care from my husband and my sons, who would ever give it to me? Who would ever care?

I read a lot about the concept of the self love, self compassion, inner child… you name it. That we need to be complete and self sufficient. While others are just the addition to our already happy life. I have been thinking about it for about a decade.

I don’t really get it. It is all beautiful, but totally strange to me. Not that I don’t enjoy my own company or need someone to complete me all the time. But, I need to belong somewhere.

To back up what I am saying, many researchers point out the fact that the quality of our lives are strongly correlated with the quality of our relationships. This one – I get it fully. And this is what I miss in my life.

Also, I think my self esteem is very low. I feel less than nothing. There must be something utterly wrong with me if I got there.

August 26, 2018 at 5:46 am #223087

Anonymous
Guest

Dear miranam:

I want to respond to different things you wrote in your recent posts, not in order:

“many researchers point out the fact that the quality of our lives are strongly correlated with the quality of our relationships. This one- I get it fully. And this is what I miss in my life”- what it comes down to is the simple fact that we humans are social animals. Just like any other social animal, we can’t be content without satisfactory relationships with others. A turtle, a solitary animal, can be content without, but not a social animal.

“When we (therapist and you) started our sessions about a year ago, I formulated my goal as to be able to reach emotional independence. Not being affected by anyone. Not rely on anyone emotionally. I would do anything to reach this state of mind for I am so drained”- it is impossible for a social animal to be “emotionally independent”, to not be “affected by anyone”, and “to be complete and self sufficient”. It is draining to attempt the impossible, again and again.

“My relationship with my husband is one sided. If I provide him with comfort, it works, but as soon as I am in need, he distances himself from me”- putting aside the socially respectful term “husband” and “marriage”, what relationship between a woman and a man has this one-sided dynamic of the woman providing the man with comfort?

“He (your son) always was rebellious and difficult kid… in his 13 he is very self-absorbed, arrogant and selfish”- think about this: he has observed you giving and giving his whole life. He observed his father taking and taking. He observed you being miserable. He observed his father being… comfortable. Which person do you think he would want to be, the miserable one or the comfortable one?

anita
Author

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