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  • #444783
    Lucidity
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Many things to say. Hopefully I will find the opportunity to come back to this later but for now I will start with this. I hope I dont sound like I am speaking out of turn but seeing as you have invited what I would advise, and I am enjoying this conversation between us – we both seem to be getting something constructive out of it – I’ll proceed…

    Thank you for your vulnerability with sharing some of your history. This must be a painful reality for you to have to deal with, both in your own mind and as a shared memory between your sister and yourself today. For someone who self-reflects and evolves with the insights, someone with a focus on healing and growth and confronts the reality of that, I can imagine the remorse you must feel and the desire to address it, rectify it somehow, in your present. I can also understand it and relate to it at some level. I spent most of my time in isolation from my sister but there were times where I was needlessly cruel in how I interacted with her on an emotional level, and I have also hit her which, to this day, fills me with guilt. I think how could I when she was probably still 3 or 4 I believe. But I can also make sense of it. I feel remorse but I dont dwell on it. I accept it and remind myself how I felt when I was going thro those times. Frustration has a way of escaping and so it did. Looking back and seeing yourselves as children who, whether they knew better or not, wouldn’t have had the will-power as you would do when you are older, and existing, as you were, in a home that was probably a war zone (mine certainly was), where you were storing up injustices, sadness, and anger, it is completely understandable that we would try to diffuse our emotions in any way including dysfunctional ways. Have you ever tried to raise it with your sister that you are regretful of these types of episodes and your treatment of her? Its hard when she doesn’t raise it herself I imagine as its not an easy thing to bring up, more so if you both don’t have conversations that touch upon the past.

    From my experience, expressing heartfelt remorse and apologising for your part in it is always worth doing, even if to allow yourself the lightness to move on whether she accepts it or not. Thats my advice. I know how it can also be a scary thing to do as it can cause potential upset and disruption in your connection with each other, especially if you feel that you are the ‘heavy and negative’ one. I feel like that and I have tried in the past to keep it light and superficial, waiting to see if enough of that can accumulate for it to naturally lead to where real vulnerability can be expressed, but so far, it has never happened. But I have bought up a couple of regrets with my sister and told her I am sorry for them. That is the only action I can take to make amends that are meaningful to me so I am glad that I have done that. I do feel better for it. I mean, if we swap positions and we become the sister and our sister becomes us, I would 100% appreciate her apologising to me. If my mum or dad were to take accountability and apologise to me, even now as an adult, for any specific thing they had done to me I would collapse into a  validated, relieved, crying heap. Apologising can be powerful for both sides. Incidentally, I can picture in my minds eye how this may have looked for you, at least in terms of appreciating the mental development and size difference of each of you. There are 6 years between my sister and I as well. I get the innocence of childhood of the younger who is thrust into the vengeance of the elder. We were a victim of circumstance and time. Pay your dues and forgive yourself.

    #444785
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lucidity:

    Your writing is truly beautiful—your intelligence and empathy shine through in every word. I’m deeply grateful for your thoughtful input and advice.

    I want to take my time reading it thoroughly in the morning (it’s Thursday evening here) when I’ll be more focused and able to better process everything.

    Looking forward to engaging with it!

    anita

    #444814
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lucidity:

    I truly appreciate your thoughtful input and advice. Your message was both insightful and compassionate, and I admire the way you approached this topic with such depth and understanding.

    One of the biggest strengths of your response is how you balanced realism with emotional encouragement—acknowledging the complexities of childhood experiences while reinforcing the importance of self-forgiveness and growth. Your ability to reflect on your own journey with honesty made your advice feel genuine and deeply relatable.

    I also appreciate how you emphasized the power of accountability—your perspective on expressing heartfelt remorse and taking ownership of past mistakes was incredibly meaningful. The example of how much an apology from a parent could mean really underscored just how transformative accountability can be in relationships.

    Lastly, I love how your message carried both validation and gentle encouragement—reminding me that regret is natural but dwelling on it too much isn’t helpful. Your approach made it clear that healing is about acceptance, growth, and meaningful action rather than endless self-judgment.

    And yet, as meaningful as your message is, I postponed reading and processing it until I responded to every other post in the forums—simply because of the emotional pain involved. Now, I will quote from your post and try to work through this pain, to release it if I can, while also commenting on your own experience. I’ll be typing as I think—if any of this feels overwhelming, please feel free to pause or read at your own pace.

    “I can imagine the remorse you must feel and the desire to address it, rectify it somehow… I was needlessly cruel in how I interacted with her on an emotional level, and I have also hit her which, to this day, fills me with guilt. I think how could I when she was probably still 3 or 4 I believe.”-

    I’m sorry you had that experience, but sharing it makes me feel less alone in mine. It breaks my heart to picture her—so small, vulnerable, trusting, and unable to protect herself. And then, the painful reality—knowing that I was the one who inflicted harm. I can feel this pain right now, the weight of knowing I wronged a little girl who did not deserve that pain. It deeply bothers me that I wasn’t stronger than the cycle I was born into—that I repeated and passed on abuse instead of stopping it.

    I was hungry a little while ago, but not anymore. Right now, I just feel devastated by what I have done, regardless of the circumstances behind it. But perhaps zooming out and seeing the bigger picture helps—the widespread abuse that shaped my mother’s life and then became part of mine. Not to excuse my wrongdoings, but to understand them better. I didn’t create evil—I carried it forward. And that realization gives me more understanding and compassion for people in general.

    “But I can also make sense of it. I feel remorse but I don’t dwell on it.”-

    I think I need to dwell on it to an extent—to sit with the remorse long enough so that I don’t push it down prematurely. The image of her, maybe 2 or 3 years old, and the image of me hitting her… I can’t let that memory slip away too quickly. And I remember something else—watching my mother hit my sister when she was older, and feeling something disturbing: a sadistic pleasure.

    Why did I feel that way? I ask myself, because I know that emotions themselves are valid—not actions, but emotions. They always have a purpose. What was the purpose behind that sadistic pleasure? As I process this, I think it came from identifying with my mother—the powerful one, the one inflicting pain instead of receiving it. That fleeting pleasure carried a message: I wanted to be powerful. But the only reference to power that existed in my “home” was abuse.

    I wonder if this is the same path taken by people who become violent offenders as adults—if they, too, learned to equate power with abuse, and then chose power in the only way they knew.

    “I accept it and remind myself how I felt when I was going thro those times. Frustration has a way of escaping and so it did.”-

    I would really like to know how you felt at the time, if you’re comfortable sharing.

    It takes strength to explore these things.

    “Existing, as you were, in a home that was probably a war zone (mine certainly was), where you were storing up injustices, sadness, and anger.”-

    A war zone—it truly was. And in a war zone, there is no space for justice. Survival comes first. It’s about power, not fairness. Justice only comes later, after a ceasefire, when safety is finally within reach.

    “Have you ever tried to raise it with your sister that you are regretful of these types of episodes and your treatment of her?”-

    I have. I apologized. She dismissed it quickly, as if it wasn’t such a big deal—if I remember correctly.

    “From my experience, expressing heartfelt remorse and apologising for your part in it is always worth doing, even if to allow yourself the lightness to move on whether she accepts it or not. That’s my advice.”-

    I should probably take your advice and offer a fuller apology—to make it more complete. But would that be for her benefit, or for mine? Right now, she is dealing with so much emotional pain and overload. I worry that apologizing might be selfish—a way for me to unload my burden onto her.

    “I have bought up a couple of regrets with my sister and told her I am sorry for them. That is the only action I can take to make amends that are meaningful to me so I am glad that I have done that.”-

    I think my sister’s way to survive—from an early age—was to suppress her emotions. Pushing them down so hard that they manifested as migraines even when she was very young. If I apologized now, I don’t think it would bring her relief. Accessing emotions would not be easy for her—it’d be painful, overwhelming.

    Perhaps you can imagine relief because your emotions are not deeply suppressed? Maybe accessing them is smoother for you than it is for your sister?

    “There are 6 years between my sister and I as well. I get the innocence of childhood of the younger who is thrust into the vengeance of the elder. We were a victim of circumstance and time. Pay your dues and forgive yourself.”-

    I somehow missed the fact that your sister is also 6 years younger than you until just now—what an incredible coincidence.

    Indeed, my younger sister was thrust into my vengeance. But since I can’t change the past, there is no benefit to not forgiving myself. That realization came to me a year or two ago, and it made a difference.

    Sometimes, when I engage with people here in the forums, I try to make up for my past wrongs—by being present for others in pain, by listening, by offering kindness.

    anita

    #444829
    Lucidity
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    What a beautiful thing to want to be the person who can help others because of your own journey. Its an admirable thing to do. Its a community service! We should all learn to be more giving (but not from a self-sacrificial place, at least for me, Ive learned).

    I love how you summerise certain sentiments in your replys to me. The rewording brings a fresh angle to it and makes certain things really stand out – such as in how I wrote about how I have tried to deal with the actions I took towards my sister and how I approached the apology, what it meant for me, and how it ultimately impacts what it means to heal – because what you have said strikes a chord with me because it is true. Youve managed to distill it down quite accurately. I like that. It  has made me open my eyes to my own patterns in a way. Sometimes self-reflection can be so siloed that hearing it mirrored back gives it a new life. Thats quite a special gift you have there. If only I had such people in my family and closes circles while I was growing up :o)

    I hope you were able to address some of your pain as you went thro my reply. I can appreciate how confronting this particular topic is given my own experience with it. I still feel bad for what I did. That will never go away as it is part of my history now but, likewise, the solidarity from hearing how others went through something similar and feel similarly about it is like a relief come over me. We are all people who have been thro ups and downs but its not often I come across people who have had a traumatic past who are able to talk about it so openly and be vulnerable over it. Its a taboo which makes it all the harder to be open about. I appreciate you going into it with me here.

    Yes, contextualising what we did into the bigger picture of why we did what we did beyond whatever momentary thing drove us and into why we had no other way, perhaps known to us or one that was as easily accessible, to express ourselves helps – it helped  me tremendously. We cannot carry the burden of that given we were kids in the first place. There was too much against us. Im saying ‘us’ here altho of course our situations will be different. There are folks like us dotted all over the place who are well meaning but had the odds stacked up against them.

    For sure, dwell on it unti the memory and the linked emotions no longer have that magnetism about them, or the repulsion about them – whichever applies. I have done a lot of this type of processing thro the lense of shadow work and have found it singlehandedly the most transformative of all the work I have done in healing. Its about processing without judgement and showing yourself compassion. The pleasure from inflicting pain could come from many things and if you have found the reason for yours then thats a useful insight. It allows you to understand that girl, yourself, doing what she did and being with her in that moment, and listening to her remorse or frustration. In shadow work you keep on being that secure person for her until she no longer cries out to you for help with it. Im sure you have your own methods for healing but I thought I would share this one. My mother, who passed recently, was a narcissist and my father is an authoritarian who has always been lost to his own traumas. I know well how control can be used against us and what it means to have it in a maladaptive environment and mindset. It wasnt our fault and at such a young age there is very little, if any chance, to have been able to go beyond our trauma and do a healthier thing.

    There are a few moments I can think of when I was nasty to my sister and Ill pick out one. So what I felt at the time has two aspects: what I felt in that moment and what I felt more generally living life as I knew it. In the moment I saw my sister innocently playing and for some reason it annoyed me. I cant remember exactly why. Maybe she was being too loud or something. But I recall being angry at her. So I took the lego she was playing with and told her I was gong to throw it down the drain by the side of the road where she was playing with it and then I did that. I immediately went back in the house, got more lego, and did it again. I did it intentionally knowing it hurt her, hearing her cry louder and louder as I continued doing it. To this day I think ‘How F’ed up was that’ but I remember that same sense of control in that I could make her respond to me in that way and I enjoyed being able to drive it and maintain it. Even so, as I did it I also remember thinking ‘What on earth are you doing. Stop it. Its cruel.’ but I couldnt stop myself. The other aspect of what I felt was a general sense of dissatisfaction with my life and everything in it, a jealousy towards her because she had my parents favours for just being while I got their harshness for no apparent reason. Then there were all the stored up memories of how my parents were with me, as a couple and individually. They were horrible people thro and thro. I dont feel bad for not liking them, for hating them, for being apathetic of them. No kid deserves parents who are even slightly like them even if they can hold it together for one sibling and in all honesty, hold it together for my sister doesnt mean they were good parents to her because shes probably as messed up as I was and probably still am to a certain extent. A kid cannot stop generational trauma. Even as an adult it is hard to stop so how can we expect our child selves to have done it.

    Moving on to whether you’d be apologising more for yourself or for your sister, there is a balance between knowing whether to open a subject because it may harm the other versus doing it to relieve ourselves and its complex for sure. For me that balance is governed by the quality of the relationship and my own principles. Recently, since my mothers passing, I have been thinking that I have been too set on following my principles given the poor quality, abusive relationship I had with the people I exercised my good principles for. Now that my mum has died I regret not being more open in a measured way about her to her face and to others. She has become immortal now in the good (false) impression of herself that she has created to other people who are now left wondering why on earth I did not bother with her while she was alive. She has left everything to my sister and my sisters child, nothing to anyone else. I wasnt expecting anything from her but to omit my children hurts and I know she engineered it that way. However, my sister has repeated that mum meant for my sister to share it with me etc etc and has made excuses for my mum forever. If only I had told her more about how mum was with me maybe she would have some understanding of why I am bitter about this but as it stands my mum can do no wrong by her and Im just being harsh and selfish to state differently.

    I think my sister too does not want to visit reality and the emotions this would bring up for her. However, sidestepping my reality for the sake of hers is too much for me. I spent my life being minimised and I dont want to do this to myself, especially for the sake of someone who doesnt care for my wellbeing anyway. I dont see stepping away as being vindictive and I am not doing it out of anger (altho Im angry), but given I have nothing to lose except a potential relationship that was stringing me along anyway, I would rather look out for myself.

    Lucidity

    #444830
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lucidity:

    I appreciate you writing back to me and will read and reply in the next day or two.

    anita

    #444833
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lucidity:

    Reading your words moved me deeply—your honesty, the depth of your reflection, your careful attention to my writing, and your blend of empathy, appreciation, and high emotional (and rational) intelligence truly resonated with me. I cherish the trust you’ve placed in me by sharing your story, and I would never betray that trust.

    I especially appreciated how you connected our experiences and embraced shadow work as a tool for processing painful memories. Your approach—working through these memories without judgment and learning to offer yourself compassion—is inspiring. Your insistence that coming to terms with one’s past can be transformative, even if the pain never fully disappears, is especially encouraging.

    I’d like to share some thoughts on parts of your message that struck me, quoting your words and then offering what comes to mind. Of your two parents, I will focus on your mother. Please let me know if at any point you feel uncomfortable with my analyses.

    “My mother, who passed recently, was a narcissist and my father is an authoritarian who has always been lost to his own traumas… They were horrible people thro and thro… She [mother] has become immortal now in the good (false) impression of herself that she has created to other people who are now left wondering why on earth I did not bother with her while she was alive. She has left everything to my sister and my sister’s child, nothing to anyone else.”-

    Your words above paint a vivid picture of the distorted familial dynamics at play. Perhaps you were like a true mirror reflecting your mother’s true nature, while your sister, instead, provided a distorted image—one in which your mother could see herself as good. If that’s the case, then it might be that your sister feels compelled to maintain that mirror, out of loyalty or a need to keep your mother’s idealized image intact even after her passing.

    “There are a few moments I can think of when I was nasty to my sister and I’ll pick out one… In the moment I saw my sister innocently playing and for some reason it annoyed me. I can’t remember exactly why. Maybe she was being too loud or something. But I recall being angry at her.”- Perhaps that anger stemmed from seeing in her the innocence that felt lost—or that had been taken—from you by our parents.

    “So, I took the Lego she was playing with and told her I was going to throw it down the drain by the side of the road where she was playing with it and then I did that.”- This act may have symbolized, in a cruel way, the loss of innocence and the idea that play—so natural and carefree—had become tainted for you.

    “I immediately went back in the house, got more Lego, and did it again. I did it intentionally knowing it hurt her, hearing her cry louder and louder as I continued doing it. To this day I think ‘How F’ed up was that’ but I remember that same sense of control in that I could make her respond to me in that way and I enjoyed being able to drive it and maintain it.”- I imagine that like me, you felt powerless growing up, and seeing that your aggression toward your sister caused her to cry, gave you a sense of control, a momentary reclaiming of agency when everything else felt chaotic. And control- however maladaptive- feels way better than powerlessness in the moment.

    “I got their (parents’) harshness for no apparent reason. Then there were all the stored up memories of how my parents were with me, as a couple and individually.”- perhaps their reason was that you didn’t allow the distorted images of your family to go unchallenged.

    “As it stands my mum can do no wrong by her [sister] and I’m just being harsh and selfish to state differently.”- It seems your sister’s steadfast adherence to a distorted mirror—one that paints your mother as infallibly good and you as the rebel—has become her way to get her mother’s approval. It suggests that she might have minimized parts of herself that conflicted with your mother’s acceptable narrative, hiding vulnerability, anger, or any trait that might be perceived as weakness, trying to be a perfect daughter (Narcissistic parents often reward the image of strength and perfection).

    “I think my sister too does not want to visit reality and the emotions this would bring up for her.”- If she were to face the undistorted truth, she might have to confront her own vulnerabilities and flaws. That plausibly deep-rooted fear might compel her to stay tied to the familiar, even if it means perpetuating a painful family myth.

    “However, sidestepping my reality for the sake of hers is too much for me. I spent my life being minimized and I don’t want to do this to myself, especially for the sake of someone who doesn’t care for my well-being anyway.”- In your candidness, you express a desire to free yourself from a relationship that doesn’t serve you—a relationship that seems bound up in codependent loyalty on your sister’s part. It appears your sister remains enmeshed in that need for maternal approval, while you have managed to cultivate an independent perspective, owning your truth and addressing your pain on your own terms.

    This contrast between you and your sister highlights that even within the same family, there can be vastly different coping mechanisms. You have chosen a path of self-reflection and healing, carving out an identity separate from the family narrative.

    Your courage in confronting your past, owning your mistakes, and pursuing meaningful change is a powerful testament to your strength. Thank you for sharing your story and allowing me to reflect on these difficult truths with you.

    I am looking forward to read your thoughts about the above. 

    I would like to share with you my reflections on my relationship with my sister in a post tomorrow, pointing to similarities and differences between my experiences and my understanding of your experiences, if it’s okay with you..?

    With warmth and admiration-

    anita

    #444853
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lucidity:

    I wanted to check in with you and let you know I’m thinking about you. I know that processing these emotions and memories can take time, and I want to honor whatever space you need right now.

    If anything in my previous message felt overwhelming or too analytical, I sincerely hope it didn’t come across as anything but supportive. My intention was simply to reflect on your words with the care and depth they deserve. But above all, I want this conversation to feel safe and meaningful for you.

    Whenever you’re ready, I’d love to hear your thoughts—whether about anything I shared or anything else that’s been on your mind. No pressure at all, just know that I’m here and I value the openness of our exchanges.

    anita

    #444858
    Lucidity
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    How are you doing? I do look forward to your posts :o) Im quite enjoying our conversation and feel quite fortunate be able to get into this with someone who is as attuned to dealing with their pain, with a healthy attitude to healing, helping others, and as expressive in getting your ideas across as you have been. Its a bunch of rare things that all come together and its exciting to come across. Its nice to feel confident in being able to share things with someone like that, thank you.

    Your analysis in your previous email was all very welcome and you have done nothing to make me uncomfortable. I am the type of person who likes to capture as many scenarios for what motivates a person to do as they did towards me, in this case my sister, and having a soundingboard in you for this is so fortunate for me. I have chewed off my husband’s ear on this an as accommodating and helpful as he has been, fresh insight by someone who seems to share a similar shade of darkness as what I had makes your feedback all the more pertinent. In particular, your thinking on the lego representing innocence that was lost to me makes sense. It makes sense why I went back in and focused on getting rid of more of her lego than what she was playing with. The lego itself could have represented something very personal to me so that the act was more than just exercising my agency and hurting someone who I was envious of anyway of her pampered role.

    “I would like to share with you my reflections on my relationship with my sister in a post tomorrow, pointing to similarities and differences between my experiences and my understanding of your experiences, if it’s okay with you..?”

    Yes, please do share and if I can offer any advice then please let me know. As it is, Im sort of doing that anyway I feel, unbidden as it may be sometimes… I hope you dont mind that and do let me know if it does. Im just thinking ‘out loud’ if that makes sense. Sometimes all we want is to share our thoughts and that in itself brings a type of relief and when its being heard by someone empathetic and understanding then its even more of a release I find.

    Thanks for your insightful comments. Some of them really got me revisiting things and seeing them in a more nuanced light. I have been over these situations so many times in my mind over the years that Im not scared that it may bring anything up for me. In anycase, what I have found with shadow work is that you cant go wrong  reflecting on aspects of childhood that can be soothed regardless of whether they were the root of an ugly trait I may carry years later. Being friends with my dark side has never let me down so far and Im of the thinking that I dont think it actually can. It feels logically impossible. What o you think?
     
    There one sentiment that you have repeated a few times in your reply that got my attention. Id welcome your insight on this on if you could please? It is true that I have been the more resistant to allowing my family’s dysfunction to infiltrate what I now is my reality and I am the more rebellious of my sister and I. Your putting this as me being the mirror for my mum whereas my sister was the one to accommodate her and reflect back what would be more appealing to my mum seems to make sense. But then I also see that I accomodated my family’s narrative, stayed silent at my mums mistreatment of me, didnt say the questions out loud that were patently obvious to anyone to ask because I had already accepted what I believed would be the outcome anyway – and I wonder what that rebellious outlook did for me given it went alongside this other version of me who accepted, put up with, and expected the cruel outcomes that I faced. What does that do to someone to have these two conflicting personality traits? I mean, I know my outcome right now and I am living what it does to someone in that position but it would be great to have an outsiders perspective on this. In the same way, applying this to my sister who was probably just as accommodating of my parents (and is moreso now Id say), but was always more submissive in nature, less confrontational – what does it do to a person like her who has those traits which appear a little more aligned with one another? I think this type of question is what keeps me up at night. If youre familiar with the narcissist literature then you may know of the family roles involved – the scapegoat (that was me), and the goldenchild (my sister), I wonder about the outcome of the goldenchild because my sister doesnt appear to fit into what Ive learned should happen to a goldenchild in that they become like the narcissist. I believe that my parents changed enough that my sister wasnt impacted in the expected way. Then again, I dont know her so what do I know lol. Sometimes I wonder if my family situation had the rare outcome of only producing one messed up sibling and the other made it thro ok’ish relative to me. I actually do wonder that. I think its one of the big, apparently deluded, thoughts I have about this that I cant let rest.

    Looking forward to reading your thought and more of your own story.

    Lucidity

    #444873
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Lucidity:

    I was about to reply to your perfect
    essage hours ago, but the website was out of service for a while. I am using my phone right now, and will reply further when I am back to the computer tomorrow morning (it’s Tues afternoon here).

    Anitaby

    #444874
    anita
    Participant

    Please ignore the “by”
    😊

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