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super intense communication based courtship–advice and insight please!

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  • #93835
    Violet
    Participant

    I’ll do my best to be succinct, there’s a lot of information swirling in my head and I’m not sure what to delete.

    I’m a 38 year old female, never married, no children, back at school to get another degree. I would like a child (not by IVF) and I would like to be married. My parents don’t have the kind of relationship I would like: they are not great at communicating with each other or with us, my dad has always been more active in helping other people than our family (even simple things like changing a light fixture that’s not working, he has the know how), my mum has insecurity issues that carry over from her childhood and from being with my dad who is often prone to temper tantrums. Especially when things aren’t as he want’s them to be.

    I’ve been on-line for about three months. I’m not interested in dating for fun, but with the intention of something serious. I was contacted by someone early January, and things seemed to line up. There were some negatives and positives to his profile, but the communication was good and I met up with him. The things that I thought were negatives were cleared up and the positives seemed pretty good. The first outing we had drinks, went walking and ended up at his condo because he needed something warmer. He was a gentleman. It was cold and he gave me some options including go to the rec area and play a bit of pool. It thought that would be nice and we did. But then the conversation started getting quite serious about dating history, how difficult on-line dating is, that I don’t kiss people easily, the expectations and so on. It was difficult for me because I’m a rather guarded person but earlier I had decided I want to try to be more open and vulnerable and do things differently than I had before. It was tough but worked out. After, we got a snack and hung out in the lobby area, near a fireplace, chatting. It was good overall and I was looking forward to seeing him again.

    The next day he texted me something and we had a normal random, fun interaction. The day after, I hadn’t heard from him so I messaged something about the weather, he invited me out again, I accepted and he said he was surprised I accepted because he didn’t think I was interested. It turns out he had this feeling because I didn’t kiss him and because I made a light joke about his tummy which he took very badly–he has some health issues (which I’ve learned about and I’ll get to in a bit). Fair enough, it was inappropriate but I was comfortable with him, I didn’t mean to be rude, and I didn’t think about what I was doing. I explained and apologized. He said something about having a chat, so later on that evening, I called him.

    We ended up having almost a 6 hour discussion interrupted a couple of times by my battery dying. We cleared up the stuff about the tummy, and I had had an idea from a Steve Harvey program where couples dated exclusively for 30 days and saw each other 2/3 times a week and communicated every day. After having a big convo about all those things that people are scared about but don’t ask: have you been to jail, cheated, what do you think about monogamy etc., we were on the same page. So, I suggested the 30 day thing. He was on board. Then added no sex. I was okay with that and suggested only above the waist. He got upset about that. So I said fine, because really I don’t mind. One other thing we decided to do, was have a weekly phone chat check in on Mondays–what’s something that brought you happiness, what’s something that was hard, what’s something left unsaid, what can I do for you this week. (I found these questions online somewhere and thought they made sense–I really want to be able to communicate well with my partner.)

    We met on Tuesday, I went to his place, basically to pick him up because I had an appointment in his area and he had to finish up some stuff at home (he works at home). When I got there he had to finish cooking something (that I don’t eat) so it wouldn’t spoil. Anyway, we ended up kissing and making out for quite a while and had some lovely, light conversation. He made me a nice soup because it ended up being too late to go out. So, now things are going well. He’s comfortable because he knows I’m attracted to him (the chemistry is great). I’m comfortable because I know he’s not ho-ing around and we’re on track to getting to know each other for the purposes of a serious relationship that may lead to marriage. That’s what we both want (though not necessarily with each other, it’s still getting to know you stage.)

    Anyway, the rest of the week was good. First monday check in went well. The next week was good as well. More fun talk, more physical closeness, eating out, saw an exhibit, watched all the old starwars, at his place, so I could know the story (really great) and then watch the one in the theatre. So, all the talknig, we’re getting to know each other really, really well. Maybe too fast. End of second week, Friday, we out, went to his place saw SW, no hanky panky because it was getting too intense. Saturday we were both exhausted from our late Friday and our Saturday obligations but we met and he showed up panicky because he thought he lost his wallet. We back tracked to his place and he had left it in his room. He hadn’t eaten, but I had but I could have a soup so we went out. Ended up going to the grocery, he picked up stuff for the next day, and didn’t go to a restaurant. Went back to his place, had some other snack, got intimate (not intercourse) and then he wanted to watch SW. I said okay, but I’m going to sleep over–my place is quite far from his–and it’s not going to be a habit. We had a good night. The next day am was good. We were cozy in the am, waking up late, then finished the movy, had some snacks, showered, went out to eat. It was really late and I had work to do but the library was closed so he suggested to go back to his place. I agreed but said I had to have a little nap and then we had to cuddle a bit because he brought up some intense discussion about child & birth at the restaurant and it was a bit difficult and exhausing so I feel like cuddling-it-out would help.

    After that the eventing went totally downhill. I was crying a bit because he had told me about his sleep apnea and that he would likely die of a stroke and die early. I didn’t realize he was awake. He asked me about it I liked and said my nose was dry, anyway, ended up telling him it made me upset. We started talking and he started getting stuff off his chest. Like how he’s fulfilled all his obligations–taking care of his mum until she died. That after he did the same for his dad (because he promised his mum) that he could go. That he saw himself with only another 10-20 years. I was crying when he said that it made me so sad. I’m not normally this crying type of person.

    During this time, and before he has told me a lot of his problems. At this period it ramped up . He told me how his sleep apnea problem, how he has severe sinusitus and that in combo with the sleep apnea he was often out of commission for weeks at a time, he spent last year at many, many doctors, none can help him. They say he needs to loose weight but he’s having a hard time loosing the weight. His dad started drinking heavily in high school, he begged his mum to leave his dad, she said he was hard to live with too, his sister only calls him when she needs something. He’s tired all the time because of the sleeping thing. He lost a lot of his friends because their (married with children) lifestyles. He’s lonely, ill, lost his job a couple of years ago because he fixed all the problems where he was working and they didn’t want to keep paying him. He decided to do his own thing — he owns property and invests but because of the market this year he’s lost a ton of money and he’s worried about his future especially now he can’t find a job. Everyone leaves him because of these difficulties. He felt like eventually I would find out so better now than later. Thorough some of this it was okay, then he started getting quite angry and I decided to leave. He told me to wait because it’s dangerous for me to walk (it is) but something inside of me had just … I don’t know, not snapped but I couldn’t anymore. So I kept telling him no, I’ll be okay. He’s a gentleman, even when upset and insisted. I don’t know what happened but when we were at the door he snapped and said I could be like everyone else and leave him, he gave me a small push (but I wasn’t afraid of him at any point) said he would walk me to the train and then come back and jump off the balcony. I walked to the elevator and by the time it came he was saying something else. I don’t remember. It was late and I was overloaded. We both were. When we left the building I just started crying. I was so heart broken over everything. How he’s been treated. How he feels. I just couldn’t stop crying. He had calmed down when we were outside and he apologized straight away, he shouldn’t have yelled, that I shouldn’t be upset because his life sucks, my life is good, and other things that generally fit more with his normal way of acting.

    I had to keep walking because I was so upset I couldn’t get to the train and he wouldn’t leave me because he didn’t want me to be in danger. Also I didn’t want to leave on those terms. Eventually I calmed down and could talk to him. We sat on some steps of a church in the cold for a while talking. He couldn’t understand why I was so upset, I told him the truth, I didn’t know. But I also know what it’s like to be kind and helpful to people and they take advantage of you, to be constantly giving and not receiving, to be around a constantly angry parent, to be depressed, to feel like your life isn’t worthwhile, to worry about the future/income/employment, that I sometimes have severe anxiety and sometimes depression. I told him my cousin committed suicide (but I didn’t tell him about my depths of despair, that’s why I understood his moments of hopelessness), about my power/control father. Eventually in the conversation I asked him what he wanted from this, because I didn’t know what to do, I gave him so many chances to leave, and I really like him. He said he wanted a hug and to start over, clean slate. He understood that I could be worried about his anger. I was on board

    The next day, Monday, was our check in. He wanted to delay until Tuesday but I was such a wreck, thinking so many things over, that I wanted to just do our stuff quickly. It ended up being another tricky convo because, eventually I think communication styles. I don’t know how to do this, I don’t have any healthy role models. Look what happened to cosby! I’m trying. I felt that after dinner on sunday, when things started going awry, that all the heavy topics he kept introducing them and making confessions that made him upset. He is seeing a professional about his issues, right now twice a month, and working on himself. But he can’t afford to go backwards. Eventually, we did have some fun convo inbetween the heavy stuff (including this thing about having kids, he’s more no than yes mainly because it’s tiring and he’s worried about money), and decided that we would take a break from seeing each other this week (because I have a deadline and he has stuff and we both need to recover from all this intensity). No dates, no texts, no calls. On Sunday we’ll have a talk. But I told hime, I don’t want to have a conversation on Sunday. In my mind, it’s either we stay in or we quit. I’m not used to all this emotion, vulnerability, talking. It was a different outcome than I expected–I thought he wanted to stop seeing me.

    I can understand that in black and white the easy thing to say is the guy is not worth my effort but life is not so straightforward. He is a caring, gentleman, kind, person. We get along well. We’re on the same page in terms of lifestyle and major values. We have great chemistry. We have similar personal histories and challenges and similarities. From the very beginning I liked him. That’s why I’ve been in it up until now, because the good is very good. I took all this talking to be a new way to do something, that would hopefully be successful, because the old ways of simple, witty banter were not working when I would then find out: the guy is a cheater, doesn’t want to get married, doesn’t want kids, doesn’t want commitment, is boring, not compatible ….

    People see me as strong, but I don’t know about that. I hope that when I’m done with this school thing, hopefully in the next year or so, that I can get a job with a solid income. But I don’t know that I will get something that can support a family by myself– who knows how much further his investments will tank. And I don’t want to be with someone who has anger management problems–but I don’t really know that he does. This intense personal communication has fast-tracked normal aspects of the relationship in a very overwhelming way. Added to his sleeping issues, I don’t want to make rash judgments on what the future will hold. I know I’m certainly not *my normal self* whatever that is really. I’m also scared that he will die in 10 years but I realized I’d rather 10 blissful years, than not at all.

    Thank you for reading all of this. I don’t have anyone to talk with about this. If you have any suggestions, comments, insight, questions, or anything else that can help me, I’d really appreciate it.

    #93845
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Viloet:

    What an interesting story! Your thinking is very organized, neat, clear. I see you as a woman who is very aware and sees the bigger picture, thoughtful, not impulsive, guarded but empathetic.

    This is an opportunity for the two of you, having come from not so great homes, to heal together. It is a great opportunity because the two of you are willing. And you are so clear thinking. He has a lot on his mind and heart: he has suffered a lot and is a bit more… troubled than you, needs more help than you but both of you need each other and if you can work together it will be great for the two of you.

    This is more than you expected when you did the online dating initiative, isn’t it? The communication method you suggested was an excellent idea, the schedule but isn’t it amazing how life interrupts simple plans, as it is often more complicated than anticipated?

    This is a great opportunity because the two of you are willing and humble enough. His pessimism regarding his health can be heavily influenced by his much suffering and he can become optimistic over time.

    You wrote that he sees someone twice a month? If it is a good psychotherapist, maybe you can join in on a few sessions as a couple for the purpose of the two of you working on individual healing in the context of your relationship. Injuries from harmful relationships with parents can only be healed in a … healing relationship, and this may be a healing relationship.

    It will take time and work but can be amazingly beneficial for both, a Win-Win.

    Please do post again! I would very much like to read more and reply more!

    anita

    #93847
    Emily
    Participant

    Hi Violet! I can tell you really value relationships and you are thinking very logically and deeply about this one. You have already invested a lot of yourself and it seems you could be cultivating a long term relationship hete. You obviously have your head on straight – I think you will do great if you keep following what feels right. I know it’s hard since uou don’t have a role model (I can definitely relate ) but so far you are making wise decisions. Don’t be afraid to trust yourself. That being said, it is also wise to ask for guidance when you are unsure which you have done here. These are all positive things and I agree with Anita that a therapist might be helpful as well. My boyfriend and I have been seeing a therapist weekly since becoming more serious in our relationship and it can be helpful in many ways. Good luck to you both!

    #93854
    Violet
    Participant

    Thank you Anita and Emily for your thoughtful and kind comments. They definitely make me feel more sane. I definitely agree, with a lot of the points you’ve made.

    I also think that it could a good match. Though I haven’t told him the extent of my circumstance. He says he is quite intuitive, and I’ve seen some evidence of it, so I’m pretty sure he can read between the lines. My analogy to him was that of some sticks: one on its own falls over if you try to stand it up, two together can prop each other up. My concern is are we strong enough to prop each other up? Even though I think I can love him back to happy, maybe I can’t or maybe he doesn’t want to (I’m not in love with him yet, but the sentiment is growing). Maybe we’re like kindling that will just blow away in a spring breeze.

    I’ve also thought about joining in with his therapist–though it seemed too soon to broach that one! We did agree that eventually we should do couples therapy because I think it’s a good check in for a relationship. He’ll go again tomorrow-who knows what will transpire?! He did tell the therapist about us and explained the first date and the 6 hour convo. He said she said it’s a good thing to go out with me/ give it a go. We’ll see what happens next week. I don’t know if she’s good–I think she is because he’s comfortable with her and he’s been seeing her for over a year. So, hopefully yes. I know I saw someone about ten years ago and he was ooookay. I definitely would like to find someone on my own though. Maybe I’ll see about that in the next couple of days.

    Though I know I can be mean to people (though loosing my temper, though it’s never been a common occurance) since 2008 I am proud to say that I have not said anything to anyone with the intention of being unkind. I try to do everything with love and kindness. It’s often not reciprocated or taken advantage of. That’s okay because I’m also trying to not have expectations of people. But at the same time, it can be quite hurtful. I take some time to recover and then go on my way again. I’m so used to people bailing on me when I’m trying my best to be kind and at the same time true to myself. I’m just bracing myself for impact. I don’t know if he will be different.

    One other thing he said when we were at the church was that he would like a person who could accept him for despite his faults, I started crying again, and said she’s right here but you’re pushing her away. He acknowledged that in a very kind way. He was very kind and gentle with me the entire time. I’ve never been with someone who is abusive so I don’t know if this is the beginning of a pattern–yell and then be gentle. But he took ownership for his wrong, so that seems the right (non-abusive) thing to do.

    This thing about having a kid seems to be a big deal for both of us. I don’t want to rush and have one without spending some alone years with my partner but I realize I’m fairly old and the possibility of it happening easily is getting lower. At the same time, he often takes care of his young niece who is quite the handful and that with the strained relationship with his sibling makes it tiring for him. So he goes on about that. I have enough energy for two people but I don’t want to be single parenting with a spouse who is distant. That would be me repeating an unhappy pattern. I know it’s been a tough period of year for him–the MDs told him there’s noting that can be done about his health issues (including some chest and muscular pains) and his mum’s death anniversary and this thing with me all happened at the same time. And, we tend to stay up quite late together. I’m also having some challenging issues with school and my funding. So of course it’s all quite emotional.

    I really don’t know if I have my head on straight, but thanks for that comment Emily. It’s really hard for me to trust my judgement on what I’m doing in relationships. I’ve had some good relationships (romantic and otherwise) but many of them ended not so well (people can be surprising). Hence, the usefulness of the questions for me. I have a terribly difficult time discerning between intuition/gut feeling and hope or fear. Also, I like to help people and fix things so now I’m worried that I over think things. I definitely do tend to analyze and use more logic than emotion to figure things out. He says I’m a little like Data from Star Trek in that way. Always thinking no so good at feeling. I’m super emotional but so much is suppressed (repressed?) I don’t really understand the nuances very well.

    Thank you for taking the time to ponder my worries.

    #93858
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Violet:

    My thoughts following reading your last post:

    In couple therapy, my therapist taught me the acronym EAR which stands for Empathy Assertiveness Respect, as how to communicate and treat each other. Please notice Assertiveness, stating what you need is part of it. As I read about you being kind all the times in your interactions with others, I hope it doesn’t mean being passively nice. I don’t think there is a requirement to be nice or kind to anyone and everyone, just not abusive. And I don’t believe in the literal meaning of “turning the other cheek” – if someone hurts you, state it is not acceptable, express anger appropriately, and do not spend time with a person who hurts you twice, not taking responsibility for his or her actions, not trying to repair, etc.

    Also, I was taught that interactions with people and a relationship like the one you are having, needs to be a Win-Win. It should not be about you fixing him and making him happy while you sacrifice your own well being (that would be a Win (for him)- Lose (for you). Win for both.

    …Also, there are messages in emotions, very important information in emotions that need to be understood so to act logically.

    Please post again and again… and again, as many times as you need to, on this thread that you started and we can talk about your developing relationship as it develops, if you’d like!

    anita

    #93861
    Violet
    Participant

    Thanks for this EAR communication strategy Anita. There is definitely no lack of assertiveness on either of our parts. To me it is more like responding in empathetic, thoughtful, gentle ways. So, for example with this situation:
    “when we were at the church was that he would like a person who could accept him for despite his faults, I started crying again, and said she’s right here but you’re pushing her away. He acknowledged that in a very kind way.”

    The response he gave was verbal acknowledgment of his rough behaviour and apologizing and then giving a side hug (we were sitting beside each other) and trying to kiss me on the cheek, which I couldn’t accept. I was not quite settled and I don’t like people touching me when I’m not in a good place with them. Does this make sense?

    That is one of my concerns, that I will become a mother to an adult man who is supposed to be my partner.

    What suggestions do you have for discerning information from emotions? Getting to know them better?

    Many thanks for your insight.

    #93877
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Violet:

    I am glad there is no lack of assertiveness.

    Regarding discerning information from emotions, let’s take the church example that you gave.

    He said that he would like a person who could accept him despite his faults. You started crying because you were moved by an emotion. I like breaking the word emotion to energy in motion. That energy moved you to the motion of crying. What was that emotion: hurt for not seeing that person that you are, right there! When he didn’t see you as the accepting person that you are, you felt he was pushing you away, even more than just not seeing you there…

    When he tried to kiss you on the cheek, you couldn’t accept it, not liking people touching you when you are not in a good place with them, this tells me you were hurt and angry. You felt he pushed you away so when he tried to kiss you, you pushed him back. It makes sense, when we feel hurt, it often goes to anger: wanting to hurt back the person who hurt you, or wanting to push away the person that pushed you away first.

    Yes, it does make sense to not wanting to be touched by a person with whom you are angry. And it is okay to be angry at someone. It delivers the message that the person hurt you, or at the least that you perceived the person hurt you.

    Animals do not have a language, so they don’t think like we do. They know what to do: who to fight, when to run away, who to mate with, all these things they know only by emotions. Emotions guide them: it is some kind of love that motivates the fawn to follow its mother deer. It is some kind of sexual attraction leading to mating; it is fear leading to running away, anger leading to fighting.

    We humans are animals or if you don’t believe it, at the least you can see we have a lot in common with animals. Emotions are there to guide us. Logic is an additional resource, but we are not robots. We cannot function well on logic alone. We need to know our emotions.

    One last point on emotions: let’s say a person feels angry and they think: the message is that I should go to a bar, drink and fight. No, no, no. This is not the valid message. The valid message is that someone hurt the angry person, and that this hurt needs to be attended to, an assertion needs to be made.

    Like I wrote before, anytime, post. I am on the computer daily and will answer anytime I get a message from you!

    * One more thing: yes, not a good idea to be like a mother to him, that would be a Lose for you. You read like a very honest person and I appreciate it very much. You deserve nothing less than an honest partner who takes responsibility for his feelings and does not blame you or expect you to fix him.

    anita

    #93927
    Violet
    Participant

    Brilliant analysis/insight Anita, you’re doing for me what I can’t do for myself here; thank you!

    I also just read a piece written by comedian Whitney Cummings on her co-dependence and something from Mental Health America. I’d heard about this but wasn’t quite sure what it was–like her I thought it meant just being in bad relationships. Anyway, I’m happy to say this is not the case with me. Though, I’m not sure about him. Another question for him, if we return to that point.

    He and I are both trying to be quite honest in our communication with each other. And we’re coming to realize, that it’s not normal for either of us (especially me) to share quite so much. The thing that happened after supper on Sunday where he just kept confessing, getting off his chest all these problems of his I think was a result of that. I am complicit in so far as that I don’t tell him to stop talking, or I don’t ignore him, and that I do engage in the convo–maybe giving some comments, I can’t fully remember at this point. But, I don’t start any of them. When we talked Monday, he was frustrated by all the serious talking. When I pointed out that he initiated he more or less said he didn’t know why but he (I’m paraphrasing here) felt compelled to divulge and that this was not something normal for him. And the extreme divulging caused him anxiety (again paraphrasing) but again, he couldn’t help himself.

    I just let him talk for a couple of reasons. Also, when we’re cuddling and talking (we have done this quite a bit) usually if one of us starts babbling about something or getting into serious territory the other will kiss them. It’s a good way to shift. Once he began venting some frustration about I can’t remember what (maybe something family related) I did the kiss and he said “can I talk” so I backed off. I would say a part of me didn’t want him to feel ignored (as I would have in a similar situation, depending on the topic).I felt like maybe he wants me to know things and if that’s important to him, then I accept that.

    Re your statement on deserving an honest partner who takes responsibility for his feelings, doesn’t blame me, or expect me to fix him. I think is is that. He hasn’t blamed me for anything, he’s doing a lot of work with himself and his therapist to fix himself, and his anger hasn’t been targeted at me, it’s about all the other stuff and hang ups about peoples’ past behavior toward him. Once toward the end of Sunday when he was upset because he said I didn’t respect him. I was shocked at this and said, probably not so sweetly, I’ do! He elaborated that because I didn’t ask him if he had stuff to do Sunday when I ended up lounging around there. I apologized, said I do respect him, and I didn’t even think about it because I was enjoying being with him and that I’ve told him several times to kick me out if he has stuff to do & I won’t feel bad about it. Moreover, after supper it was his idea that I would return to his place to do some work. Which I ended up not doing because we napped and then after went into these intense discussions. He felt that I was inconsistent because I didn’t get my stuff done. Later when we were talking more calmly I confessed my extreme anxiety over that particular project I’m working on. And that one of my mechanisms for coping with anxiety is avoidance.

    Thanks for paying attention to all of this. I really appreciate the feedback.

    #93956
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Viloet:

    You are welcome and thank you for your words of appreciation!

    Two things that come to my mind regarding your last post:

    Regarding the divulging, the kind of “vomiting” of everything in his mind, everything in one’s mind and heart: I assume he has a lot on his mind and heart and it came up and out like much like when someone has too much food in their stomach, it comes up. That can be unpleasant, literally and figuratively. Once he talks to much and it is distressing to you, tell him kindly: this is too much for me. You can discuss it ahead of time, this too much divulging (as you had) but come up with a phrase to use when it becomes too much. “Too much for me.” Some phrase, so you both know what it means. He owes you to stop talking beyond what is comfortable for you to bear. Same the other way around. The two of you asserting yourselves is always a Win-Win. It may seem like if you let him talk and talk… and talk, it will be good for him, but not so: your distress listening to so much is going to act against your own well being and against the well being of the relationship.

    Remember the A in the EAR.

    Second thing that comes to mind (I am in a rush, need to go on a walk…) is that you apologized for what you are not responsible for. He felt disrespected by you not because you did something wrong and disrespected him but because he was disrespected in his past and he inaccurately projected that experience on you. So him taking responsibility for his feelings and core beliefs means that he is not inaccurately projecting them unto you. So, I wouldn’t make a habit of apologizing for his inaccurate projections. Point those to him, let him be responsible for those.

    Till later:

    anita

    #96033
    Jess
    Participant

    Wow ok, so this is my first time responding to a forum of any kind but I just came across this post and felt compeled to respond. My advice to you is to get out while you still can or before you invest too much time into this relationship. I know this probably isn’t what you want to hear but there are red flags all over the place that you dont want to see because of your good compassionate heart. This guy to me screams of issues and drama that he needs to resolve himself before he gets into a healthy, non toxic relationship. You are not going to be the one that makes him happy regardless of how much you hope. Here are some of the red flags I see that are the beginning of an abusive relationship. Trust me, I know and didn’t want to see them, because like you, I was empathetic and cared too much, and me ex played on those qualities. But in retrospect, after years of being with him I now see they were all there and my instincts knew, but I ignored them.
    This guy is opening up to you all at once and too fast. You yourself realize that it’s too intense to fast, but are not paying attention to your gut instincts. He sounds very hypersensitive(being hypersensitive can also be a positive but not when you are projecting your insecurities and issues onto your partner by being angry and upset) and if he is this hypersensitive in the beginning of the relationship, you are, in the future, going to find yourself being defensive and constantly having to apoligize for any comments you make he finds offensive. I don’t know you, but I doubt that comment you made about his tummy was made out of cruelty, and was benign, but the fact that he took it so offensively shows that in the future you will have to be careful with your words and how and what you say to him which can get exhausting. The fact that he got upset at you that you only wanted intimacy from the waist up(and it’s entirely what’s comfortable for YOU) shows me he has no respect for you and is using anger or him getting upset at you to get his way and it worked, so slowly he is beginning to recognize and use control to get his way. The Fact that he got upset at you and said that everyone eventually leaves him shows some obvious abandonment issues which can turn him into being very controlling about what you do when you are not with him and he may lay a guilt trip on you anytime he needs to use that to his advantage (like I’m sorry I threw you against the wall when you tried to leave but you know I have abandonment issues). The fact that he even layed his finger on you in anger when you were walking out the door and that’s the biggest red flag and shows àbusive tendencies. He’s projecting his stuff on you already, and this is all before you both are invested. I can tell you are already struggling in this relationship with this guy and there is already too much of his anger and his being upset at you for this to be healthy. I’m sure he has some positive qualities but you need to look if those qualities outweigh the rest. I think you honestly need to pay close attention to your gut and how you feel around him and how he makes you feel 80% of the time (I follow the 80/20 rule) and follow that because you deserve nothing less then to be in a caring, loving,mutually respectful relationship. The guy can seem perfect for you and finding someone that is willing to communicate is great but it’s not everything. I had a perfect guy that was all about communication (had many books on communicating) and was very intelligent, loving, generous at times, but was also manipulative, and abusive. I’m seeing so much similarities in behavior between the guy you are describing and my ex it’s scary. Anyhow I pray that you just listen to your instinct and even if the slightest bit is saying something just doesn’t feel right but you can’t quite put your finger on it get out. Pay attention to his words and see if they are congruent with his actions or if you are left feeling confused. Pay attention if this feels more like a Rollercoaster ride then a swan ride ( ok maybe that’s a little boring but you catch my drift) but at this point or at any point there should not be all this anger and being upset and offended directed or projected at you. Even if it’s only once in a while.

    Blessings
    Jess

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