Home→Forums→Relationships→Trying to get over a fling
- This topic has 115 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 11 months ago by Feathering my nest.
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November 12, 2018 at 11:05 am #236527Feathering my nestParticipant
I think he might bail on me a second time.
I did text him and directly address his concern of ‘returning to the same dynamic’. I said I’ve realized some things about the way I relate to men that now I know, I cannot unsee. So we can’t possibly go back to that old dynamic. :/
Anyway I’m feeling anxious (Or angry?) again now but mindful its because I feel a bit ignored after making myself vulnerable. Even though I’m like: get a grip that was about 2 hours ago.
Despite his claims to be interested in self-development, he’s actually passive-aggressive and now sure he’s got the capability for the personal growth claims to seek. Like I saw myself chasing my own tail trying to figure out my issues: that is he.
November 12, 2018 at 2:51 pm #236567AnonymousGuestDear Feathering:
I read part of your recent two posts but I am too tired to read as attentively as I would like. One thing I noticed that you wrote: “I cannot tell who I s decent guy and who is not”- that was true to me as well and it led me to a lot of dysfunction. It really is necessary to be able to evaluate a man you get involved with, otherwise you operate in the dark.
I can read your frustration with this man cancelling the meeting once and maybe again. I wish you can relax and unwind, somehow. Getting to a point where you are able to evaluate a man correctly and build a healthy, loving relationship is a long term objective, possible, but not easy or fast. I hope you have the patience.
I will be back in about 13 hours, will re-read your recent posts and any other that you may add (feel free to add as much as you want), and will reply then.
anita
November 13, 2018 at 8:23 am #236681AnonymousGuestDear Feathering:
A few things in the quest of feathering you:
1. You have to be clear with yourself and with others regarding what it is that you want. In regard to this man you wrote in the beginning of your thread that neither one of you belongs to the monogamous camp, giving me the impression that you are not interested in a monogamous relationship. Later on, it became apparent to me that you are interested in a monogamous relationship with him. Which one is it then, in your mind?
Got to be clear with him about what it is that you want from him.
Then find out what he wants from you and see if there is a match.
2. You wrote that you don’t know who is a decent person and who is not, let’s think about this man: do you think he is decent at times but when he rejects you or doesn’t respond to you in a timely manner, then feeling angry at him, you think he is not decent, passive aggressive and so forth? It might be the anger talking. You can trust your evaluation when not angry.
Well, these two things. Respond to these if you would like.
anita
November 14, 2018 at 4:56 am #236795Feathering my nestParticipantHello Anita,
How are you?
Thanks for your message.
Phewee was yesterday full on. I was rushed to hospital for some potential emergency surgery – getting my appendix cut out! It was scary!! After tests it turns out I don’t have appendicitis- but they don’t know what is wrong with me.
I’d have preferred it to be appendicitis if I am honest, and be done with it.
Anyway my mates and my mum took good care of me and I felt very loved. (My dad is away with work but was so worried he wanted to get a flight back from China to be here!)1- I am monogamish. Meaning mostly monogamous but the occasional shag elsewhere is tolerated provided it is not with someone who may threaten the integrity of the relationship. (Eg. someone you have strong feelings for, an ex….) Honestly regarding these affairs is super important.
2. You wrote that you don’t know who is a decent person and who is not, let’s think about this man: do you think he is decent at times but when he rejects you or doesn’t respond to you in a timely manner, then feeling angry at him, you think he is not decent, passive aggressive and so forth? It might be the anger talking. You can trust your evaluation when not angry.
This is a fair comment. Its true I need to check in with myself and pay attention to the anger in particular. I will think about this but am unable to respond to your question directly at the moment. Lack of trust feeds the beast.
Mr Gentleman seems to have calmed down a LOT since I explained to him my reasons for meeting a bit more. He said it sounded like a positive meeting – so I think he will not bail on me this time. (Although I did pre-emptivley cancel because I believed I would be in hospital on Thursday. So we may have to re-arrange again! He was nice to me about the hospital thing.)
-Feathering
xx
PS- as we talk more and more it is getting harder and harder not to sign off with my real name.
November 14, 2018 at 5:48 am #236803AnonymousGuestDear Feathering:
If it is not appendicitis, what can it possibly be (did the doctor/s say what it can possibly be)? When will you find out the results of tests that were probably done? And your appendix was cut out (although it was not the cause)? I suppose there we don’t need that part anyway… This is causing me concern, I hope you answer me soon.
Before reading your recent post I re-read page 1 and I have a few questions, answer if you want to, when you want to. My goal in asking is to understand better.
First regarding your recent post, you being in the non-monogamy camp, what you mean by it is that while in a sexual relationship with one man, it is okay for either party (as long as one is reveals it to the other) to have sex with another person “provided it is not with someone who may threaten the integrity of the relationship”. I wonder what your motivation in this kind of a relationship- is it that you want to have the option of enjoying sex with men other than the one boyfriend or is it that you don’t believe a man can be faithful to one woman, therefore might as well un-criminalize the behavior and maintain the relationship (there might be a third possibility that didn’t cross my mind)?
Regarding page one. At first you were “unsure about him”, though you were “ok with it being a short term thing… no intention of it getting serious… you were “NOT expecting to fall for the guy” and thought it would be a casual relationship where parties “parted ways no hard feelings or urges to make it last longer”.
Later you did get those urges to make it last longer, you “wanted more”, the romantic part of the relationship ended, or agreed to be ended and changed to a friendship, but it “didn’t work out” because your feelings “got in the way” and he “laid on with compliments, was flirtatious” and “when we were out people thought we were dating”. So he was flirtatious with you during this friends phase (was sex part of it?) but he started dating someone during that phase without telling you. And later, while dating someone else, “he stopped communicating” with you altogether “he wasn’t even opening my text messages… for days and days… he’d basically cut me off”. Later you wrote, “he gave me silent treatment for days”.
Did he give you the silent treatment beyond that one occasion you mentioned?
“By his own admission he’s a mess in relationships and has frequently ambiguous platonic/ romantic ties with women”-
* What were his words on the matter, what did he say?
And please let me know what is happening with your medical crisis of yesterday???
anita
November 14, 2018 at 9:20 am #236843Feathering my nestParticipantHello Anita,
Thanks for your concern regarding my health. My appendix is still inside me, I was advised to see a gynecologist if the pain persits. They said they had ruled out a lot of serious causes – lets hope they meant cancer as a part of that. It isn’t an ovarian cyst. If the pain persists I need to go back to the doctor but I will go back to the doctor anyway. 🙁 It is scary.
Regarding non-monogamy.
I have a few motivations for my position. Sexual novelty is exciting, I don’t equate sex with love, it is unrealistic (and felt disingenuous) to pretend that you’re not attracted to other people. Or be afraid to voice that attraction for fear of making your partner insecure. I was with someone in an open relationship once and it was very liberating to talk openly of these things with my partner. I would like the freedom to pursue sexual novelty from time to time. It is true that this can arouse feelings of jealousy but these needed to be treated with care, discussion and honesty too.
Regarding Mr:
We didn’t have any sex while we were ‘just friends’ after we broke up.
One time, he did not respond to my message for 2-3 days. He claimed he hadn’t seen it and was frustrated that he had missed it. I took him at his word (but due to my issues it planted a seed of anxiety and doubt.) I didn’t really know how to address the issue any further at that time: It was taking his word for it or leaving, basically. I did tell him it had made me anxious, he asked me to explain that more but I dodged answering.
Other than that, he did not give me the silent treatment. He claims the one time he did was not because he was seeing someone else but because of a passive-aggressive comment I had made that made him uncomfortable.
“By his own admission he’s a mess in relationships and has frequently ambiguous platonic/ romantic ties with women”-
* What were his words on the matter, what did he say?
Those were his words, pretty much. He said he has a lot of female friends and sometimes struggled in his head to distinguish what was a platonic friendship from a romantic or sexual relationship.
That oftentimes his romantic relationships just fizzled out into friendships (but an ambiguity remained and occasionally would break out into a briefly sexual phase before fizzling out again.) He was in a turbulent on/off relationship with a woman for 7 years in which they both dated other people – although I think they had a monogamous phase to begin with. He obviously thought a lot of this woman and cared for her but they argued a lot and he dumped her a number of times.
Indeed he dumped me saying “I need friendship right now.” From the outside it looked to me as if his long-term relationship was on the brink of ending- he was under a lot of pressure and seemed quite stressed. He told her also that he “just wanted to be friends.” when he ended the relationship. He told me after, “That’s what I do.”
He claims to want a committed partner and relationship and that he is lonely.
-Feathering
November 14, 2018 at 9:38 am #236845AnonymousGuestDear Feathering:
Well, he doesn’t read to me like a bad guy, don’t see evidence to it anyway. If he gave you silent treatments on a regular basis, that would be such evidence. I am glad the doctors ruled out a lot of serious causes, that reads good to me.
The open relationship idea/ practice reads to me like walking on thin ice if one cares for a love relationship lasting.
You still didn’t give Mr (the way you referred to him in your recent post) the gift, didn’t meet him yet. If/ when you do, what is the plan at this point?
anita
November 14, 2018 at 10:23 am #236849Feathering my nestParticipantPossibly tomorrow – I did cancel on him yesterday in light of having to go to hospital.
If I meet him I’ll give him the gift.
His said he was worried about meeting me for it might ‘open old wounds’ for me and be ‘uncomfortable’. This was thoughtful of him, but I think I will explain to him that the wound (that of the old anger) is already open and I strongly believe in sitting with uncomfortable feelings in order to learn from them.
As Nikos Kazantzakis wrote; “The true meaning of enlightenment is to gaze with undimed eyes on all darkness.” (He loves the existentialist philosophy and literature.)
Tell him I’ve figured I’ve got anger issues and that angry people struggle to listen and struggle to empathize properly. On that basis I’d be curious to hear his side of the story, if he is willing to share it. I won’t go into details unless he asks and I’ll be hesitant to share some of those details unless we get a relationship that is more stable going.
We are going to a pub that has loads and loads and loads of cats- that come and sit on your lap, the bar, the table… wherever they feel like. And there are kittens as well. 😀 You can cuddle cats in the pub. I thought that would be a good location.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by Feathering my nest.
November 14, 2018 at 12:12 pm #236865AnonymousGuestDear Feathering:
I will be back to the computer in about sixteen hours, read and respond. I noticed your mention of a kitten-filled pub, how interesting!
anita
November 15, 2018 at 5:39 am #236951AnonymousGuestDear Feathering:
I hope you are feeling fine today. What is the status on the source of that pain?
Regarding Mr (will call him that, I have the following input today:
1. This is what you wrote about him in the first two pages of your thread: “He is a troubled soul… He’s very much a mixed-message kind of person….Very confused and doesn’t know what he wants…he is indecisive…. A man-child and a total mess… He expressed deep self criticism, continually second guessing himself… He accused me of having ‘false pretenses'”.
But when a clear situation presented itself he did the right thing right away, no confusion, no second guessing himself, no giving mixed messages, no man-child, just man: “I was a victim of an unprovoked assault from a total stranger. He totally fought my corner for me when nobody else really believed or listened to me. He supported my actions with the police and provided a formal witness statement.
* If you are interested in a relationship with him, it is most important that you will be clear and assertive with him at all times. He needs to know clearly what you want from him.He operates well when he is clear, so give him clarity about you. Your clarity will make a relationship possible, lack of clarity/ ambiguity on your part will give his self criticism and second guessing space to flourish.
2. You wrote about him on this page: “He said he has a lot of female friends and sometimes struggled in his head to distinguish what was a platonic friendship from a romantic or sexual relationship. That oftentimes his romantic relationships just fizzled out into friendships (but an ambiguity remained and occasionally would break out into a briefly sexual phase before fizzling out again)”
*An open relationship, a non monogamy policy in a relationship is not right for him. If it is a good idea with some men, it is not a good idea for a relationship with him. Again, he needs clarity, definitions, boundaries. An open relationship will give his confusion the space it needs to confuse himself and everyone else involved.
3. You wrote about him: “he claimed I had been putting pressure on him… he tells me my ‘friendship wasn’t very friendly'”- he needs you clear and assertive but not aggressive, not in any way. No pressure, no hidden threats, no hidden criticisms, no accusations but clear, straightforward assertiveness.
anita
November 16, 2018 at 1:53 am #237091Feathering my nestParticipantHeya Anita,
How are you? Thanks for your concern about my health. The source of the pain is possibly gluten intolerance! :*(
I love bread… beer….. pasta…. loads of my favorite foods contain wheat.Meeting with Mr yesterday went great. We agreed to move on from the argument, as we were both very upset by it. He also lost his voice for two weeks! He took my apology with good grace and liked his gift of lavender balm. I kept the ‘serious relationship discussion’ aspect short and to the point, otherwise we just spent time together as we used to… talking talking talking. Neither of us are ones for small talk. He did ask if I was seeing anybody. I said no -because I wanted to spend some time dealing with the anger issue and also I’m not into dating for the sake of it. I like my friends and my life as it is too much to spend time dating people I’m only half-arsed about. Didn’t want to ask the same question or push the boat out just yet. It is his birthday next week.
The cat pub was a great place to go. The landlord shot me in the face with a glitter gun, which was a great opportunity to introduce an otherwise difficult topic: “Right – well we came here to talk about something serious.” (covered in glitter.) We played with a kitten and built dinosaurs out of lego and won sweets. 🙂
Thanks,
Feathering
November 16, 2018 at 4:46 am #237099AnonymousGuestDear Feathering:
You are welcome. I am glad it might be gluten intolerance only.. hoping it really isn’t gluten intolerance because you love bread, pasta and beer. Reads like the meeting with him went very well, excellent!
anita
November 16, 2018 at 2:18 pm #238095Feathering my nestParticipantHello Anita,
Yes the meeting did go well, I’m happy.
Mr seemed genuinely pleased to see me from the very start, he was smiling as he sat down in front of me, a genuine smile with warmth. We connected well over the course of the evening. He was glad of my apology and admitted that this angry and bitter side to me was an issue for him. I suspect this earned his respect.
Can’t help but feel a bit chuffed that he asked if I was dating anybody – it was a bit out of the blue as we had stopped talking relationship hours before. After this he opened up about the recent ending of his long-term relationship – its definitely over for good this time. Sounds like she did not make him feel very welcome.
Previously one of my errors was to and not allow space for him to come forward in his own time and allow that space in the relationship. So I will wait for now- although I’ll make a point of wishing him well on his birthday.
-Feathering
November 17, 2018 at 7:29 am #238183AnonymousGuestDear Feathering:
People like to feel welcomed: “he was smiling as he sat down in front of me, a genuine smile with warmth“- he was welcoming to you and you loved it!
People do not like to feel unwelcome, and anger is very unwelcoming: “this angry and bitter side to me was an issue for him….it’s definitely over for good this time. Sounds like she did not make him feel very welcome”-
These are the basics of human emotions and behavior. Anger ends relationships (many should be ended) and smile and warmth promote relationships.
Give him space then, but also clarity, be clear with him and for as long as you are interested in a relationship with him (a win-win relationship), be welcoming to him.
anita
November 18, 2018 at 3:39 am #238227Feathering my nestParticipantHello,
Yes I was a bit shy to tell him I would like to date him again – it was a peacemaking mission – so not sure how best to introduce the idea again.
However it is true that I need to spend a little more time addressing the issue of my anger .
Owning up to it will help, but its important to work at that a little further before I risk getting involved with him again.
(Indeed he’s been burnt once so while he’s forgiven me no doubt he will be more cautious a second time around.)Do you have any suggestions as to how I can continue to deal with this anger issue?
I noticed yesterday a gentleness and calmness that I haven’t felt in quite that way before. Something within me has relaxed somewhere. Of course I have felt calm and happy before but this was qualitatively different. I figure this is a good sign and its motivated me to continue on this path. I have made an effort to slow down, pay attention to others a lot more and look them in the eye when we are talking. Want to book a holiday – really really want to travel around a bit more. East Asia appeals.My relationship with my parents has its difficulties and I am reacting to them differently. They still do things that frustrate me – my mum is terrible at listening and quite passive-aggressive. I’m trying to gently bring out the problematic behaviors into discussion.
I have decided to cut ties with my sister again – keeping her at arms length. I keep giving her the benefit of a doubt and then she proves to me she cannot be trusted. In short she’s abusive and very aggressive. She’s unwilling to take responsibility for her behaviors so change is impossible. My relationships with mum and dad were strained growing up- but my relationship with my sister was the worst, going far beyond ‘sibling rivalry’. She held me up at knife point on more than one occasion.
Suppose it follows the next thing to do is to examine my own toxic behaviors in response to my sister: something I’ve never looked at.
That and I need to let go of my vitrol towards my last boyfriend, who I suspect was cheating on me. (But was generally lazy and neglectful anyway: I don’t know why I stayed with him so long.)
-Feathering
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