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On incessant self-doubt and anxiety

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  • October 21, 2013 at 3:30 pm #44097
    Andrea
    Participant

    Hey, all. New here. And I hope I’m not making a mistake.

    Okay, here goes. I’m 24, and I’ve been recovering from crippling anxiety since 2012 after a bad relationship that left me in emotional turmoil. Then I found Paul (anxietynomore.co.uk)’s method and book and it’s been really the light at the end of the tunnel for me. I’ve been healing from so many aspects and layers of my anxiety just by remembering that, in the end, anxiety is just that: anxiety. And it’s the byproduct of tremendous amounts of stress to the body. Which is why it interprets itself as weird feelings, sensations and thoughts. More or less, it’s mindfulness (which I’ve learned a bit about) but it’s also focused on not only watching your thoughts but instead just living your life despite the weirdness. It’s wonderful!

    But there’s one aspect that still haunts me and I’m not sure whether I should practice just “seeing it for what it is: negative habitual thought patterns that have turned into obsessions” and let it heal over time or do something a little extra. Keep in mind, I delved into Buddhist spirituality and intense mindfulness for a while and I found that, while it might be extremely helpful for some, it’s just too heavy a concept for my tired mind to incorporate at the moment. I found that, instead of making me feel happier and more engaged with the world around me, I was just delving deeper and deeper inside of me, becoming more introverted, and just watching everything, instead of actively engaging with life around me and feeling vital. Also, I stumbled on somebody’s spiritual advice that saw the ego as the enemy that must be destroyed; which I don’t agree with. I believe, if anything, one must have a porous and flexible ego (to keep true to your own values and convictions). I just see it as much more balanced that way.

    Anyway, I have decided that this is not a path that I am ready for. My aim right now is to heal from anxiety, not become a walking observant ghost, haha.

    Back to the topic: I have these thoughts that have cropped up over the last few months involving incessant self-doubt and paranoid fears over being put down/destroyed/refuted when expressing my views (I study political science, and have always been lead towards social topics and politics). This has led me to get these pesky things non-stop whenever I’m reading texts for school, newspapers articles, etc. How it all started was with my ex-boyfriend who was very argumentative and always wanting to prove things “right”, and not in the kindest constructive way (and also feelings would come on my own accord of inferiority and non-competence). My dad (and my mom, whom I live with) is very similar. He likes to argue for the sake of argument, and always has ways of coming around what you’re saying. It drives me crazy because it leaves me feeling, again, non-competent, and unsure of anything: always fearing that I’ll be put down or argued with. Also, he tends to drive things to personal levels that I refuse to get into. It’s gotten to the point where even in the most ridiculous situations (when I’m just giving an opinion on something, not even dealing with social issues) I feel dread and fear for being put down by him.

    I have consulted (as I mentioned before) somebody’s advice, which ended up coming to taking awareness to an extreme I’m not comfortable with (him stating that even opinions are just something that you are aware of, and you should dissasociate with). Trying to follow through with that spiked my anxiety levels to an all time high. So as a result I’ve gone back to seeing them for what they are, just weird thoughts caused by anxiety, and have them dance in my head. They scream that I need to do something about them, unravel them, figure everything out, take a plan…debate with my father (which, I guess, I fear, because 1) it will just come to the same thing; him refuting and me not having good enough “arguments” to stand my ground, and 2) I don’t like debating for the sake of debating.) Some part of me tells me that the only way through is by facing my fears head on and just going into debates with him, which just can’t be right. I mean, what have I got to prove? My validity or self-worth for him (or myself)? I fear that by doing this I’m only going to reinforce this notion. I had read that people suffer because of avoidance of pain. Must I face the pain of being refuted in argument to come through and be at peace? How will that raise my self-esteem and confidence? How will it stop the questioning?

    I wasn’t like this before. I mean, I might not have participated as much as my brothers do when we get into discussions at home, but I didn’t even think about it and it didn’t bother me. So, in a way, I want to go back to being my old self, but maybe a bit bettered.

    I would appreciate some well-balanced advice on this. As I write here, I fear that I will only get caught in a more complex tangle of thinking (or heavy concepts I just can’t take) and this is what I want to avoid. So…any thoughts on just making all of this seem a little lighter?

    Thank you so much. Peace. 🙂

    October 21, 2013 at 4:07 pm #44110
    Andrea
    Participant

    I think I should mention that back when I wasn’t bothered to this extreme with this, I did whatever I would normally do. That means, whenever an opinion would pop up over something I would watch on the net, I would post it on FB, I would say things that are on my mind, despite the fact that I would feel uncomfortable for a bit.

    But all this talk with this man has led me to believe (or anxiety tells me this) that everything I ever want to say is just to get approval. And that’s just not true.

    That and I’ve tried therapy, and found that the best thing that works for me is Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (though, unfortunately, there are no practicing psychologists with this line of work here), so I’ve read very lightly about it.

    • This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by Andrea. Reason: Adding an extra detail
    October 21, 2013 at 4:22 pm #44112
    Matt
    Participant

    Andrea,

    Respectfully, it seems the person you consulted with was more of a warrior than mystic, though many don’t know the difference. Battle the ego? What a funny thing to say! That’s like punching the earth. Buddhism means different things to different people, but trying to conquer thoughts is not usually what is taught… its about peace, kindness, enjoyment.

    Perhaps you could try some metta meditation (YouTube “Sharon metta guided meditation” if you’re interested). Its quite different, more about refueling and calming than “seeing deeper”. Its a warm friendliness that arises in the chest area, and allows us to be at ease, calm.

    For your dad and other arguers, usually its best to disengage with people who are trying to prove. One way is to accept that different people have different views. Its OK if your dad is prolife and you’re prochoice, for instance. You don’t have to be the same to share love, to hug him or feel his love for you. If he presses a point, perhaps “oh, maybe you’re right”. You don’t have to adopt his view, just let him have it.

    Sometimes the lesson of the thorn bush is simply not to press our face into it… not navigate to prove anything. Trust your heart, its wise.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    October 21, 2013 at 4:56 pm #44113
    Andrea
    Participant

    Matt,

    That’s what I thought as well. It just seems so unkind to yourself to do that. You can try to maybe trascend the “rigid” ego (the one that sees things in black and white) but to crush it and eliminate it through pain (he even preaches about being willing to fail so that the ego can diminish)? No.

    I’ve made some advancements in that area, by accepting my dad for who he is (even if his way of doing things wouldn’t be my personal choice). But some part of me (a little agitated voice) just feels so inferior and crushed whenever he finds some way around a point. It’s like I’m unwilling to see that my opinions are of value too, and not through him, even if he disagress with me. It really is painful because it’s even affecting my studies and my thinking (which is why I blame it mostly on anxiety, that has caused me to cause these habitual patterns of thought; it’s just afraid of being disproven in argument and not having anything to say). And the tricky part is, it’s not something that never happens (as it happens with most people with anxiety that overdimentionalize things that never happen), but it does (whenever I want to share views on the table and “jump in” to the discussion) and I feel uncomfortable… 🙁 You’d think that I’d gotten desensitzed about it by now but I haven’t. Perhaps I should just give my body more time to heal?

    I guess the key is just to be mindful. Because some part of me wants to destroy my self-esteem whenever I do understand a point that he makes (because then it means that mine is “wrong” and therefore, I’m “wrong” and “stupid”).

    Can you please go a little more in depth about the lesson of the thorn bush? I would appreciate it.

    October 21, 2013 at 5:00 pm #44114
    Andrea
    Participant

    I’m also afraid that by not engagin in this “painful” activity, the obsession is going to stick more until I “confront” it. Should I dismiss that?

    October 21, 2013 at 8:50 pm #44126
    Matt
    Participant

    Andrea,

    What an incredible mind you have! I’m really impressed by the depth and potency of your response. In this case, I dont think the key is to be mindful, rather, the key is to be humble. Consider there are many things present during an argument that are beyond the “what is true” aspect. There is the power struggle of who is “better” or who has the dominant ideas, the “best” points, the “alpha”. There are all sorts of logical fallacies and manipulations and so on and so forth. Its a thorny mess! We might feel like there’s a way through, such as “debating anyway and living with the pain” as though it is an act of redemption or proof we’re smart or valuable or whatnot. Its like cutting through a thorn bush thinking there is light on the other side, if we can only break through…

    If we just abandon the thorn bush altogether, we can begin to accept that we know what we know, and we don’t what we don’t, and instead of getting confidence from “being right” we can get it from “doing our best” “being open” or “being loving”. Arguing to be right is empty of any lasting nourishment, because we feel pride if we’re right or shame if we’re wrong. When we remain humble, we’re naturally moved to curiosity. “What can I learn here? What can we uncover in this moment of connection? What does my dad think? What game is he playing? Where’s his heart?” and so forth. Your mind is amazing, perhaps you just need better aim. 🙂

    Remember that inside each of us is a Buddha (namaste), and as we come together and sing for one another from the heart, we mutually find wisdom and peace. Said differently, if your dad plays to win, let him win… who cares? Play your own game, like being kind to someone who plays to win, or letting go of the connection between your confidence and “being right”. Those are more nourishing games to play, and sidestep the thorn bush altogether. Or, we can laugh at ourselves for pressing into it again, if we grab our armor and try to win the battle, cut through to the light on the other side. Think about it, if you win, your dad loses, and how distressing it must be to feel beaten by your own daughter! Dads often think of themselves as the protector and wise man, so its possible you’re challenging a lot more than an idea!

    With warmth,
    Matt

    October 21, 2013 at 10:41 pm #44143
    Andrea
    Participant

    Matt,

    Your words are an ailment for the heart. It’s a relief: knowing that there are incredibly kind people out there who are willing to help, especially after said experience Everything you have said makes sense and I hope to apply it when the moment comes. I have to admit, though, some part of me (the anxiety energy in my body that feeds to my brain) is questioning and ruminating about the whole thing, taking the matter to extremes. Some part is also upset (the childish part?) because of the disconnection between “being right” in this scenario and my self-esteem (which was the part that I felt healed my heart the most). It really is silly though, and it’s just my mind wanting to ruminate and bring forth more worry into the mix. I will let it come through, though, it’s normal for my state.

    I’m thinking about situations in school, when I want to participate and bringa point forth. I can’t deny it that it feels good when a professor approves of something or fellow classmates agree. Somehow (and I’m thinking this is all the gunk left by said ‘Buddhist” who wanted me to destroy all notions of pride) my mind wants to feel that doing that is wrong and that I should refrain from it. So, I’m left in a weird position. Ack, how the mind always wants to play in terms of black and white! How it can never be okay with flexibility! Again, I will stay aware of this and let it come through. It can’t harm me.

    Interpret it according to your spirituality (I’m Roman Catholic formally but I tend to lean towards interfaith and knowledge of all belief systems), but you are a God-send. I will definitely try that metta meditation tonight.

    Namaste 🙂
    Andrea

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