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I'm So Confused!

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  • June 15, 2014 at 12:49 pm #58873
    Lisa
    Participant

    Hi everybody,

    I’ve been married almost 25 years & have a 19 year old son who lives with us.

    I waited until my son turned 18 and moved out before trying an “in house separation”from my husband. My son moved back within a few months. My husband and I have made some progress, but we’re still very off & on. I’m trying to see if I can get myself to the point of tolerance and acceptance where I can recommit to our marriage.

    My husband shuts down and won’t talk for weeks, and badmouths me to my son (even after we agreed to keep our son out of it). Then my son gripes at me about something my husband told him, without getting both sides of the story. I know this has to be hard for my son…that’s why I waited to separate after I thought he’d moved out.

    I learned about mindfulness last year, and despite menopausal mood swings, I think I’ve come a long way. The one area I still struggle with is how to handle my husband, who flirts regularly…like it pretty much happens monthly. He’s admitted he likes women’s attention. It makes me not want to be around him, so I stay in my bedroom when he’s home while he sleeps in a different room. We’ve come a long way with other issues, but the flirting continues while he acts all nice to my face. It seems disingenuous…But maybe that’s a judgment? That’s where I get confused on reading articles that say to not judge or think “how could he do that?” And consider they’re doing their best and let it go. I probably should let more go than I do. Those mantras make sense in many situations, except I feel like I’m missing something. Like, so do we always just blow off the behaviour?

    Cuz if this idea of just letting everything go is across the board, then does that mean people should never talk about differences or hurts with your spouse or adult children who can speak so contemptuously on a regular basis? Or is it a balance between letting things go vs picking my battles/will this matter in 5 years. But I can’t control that he wants to flirt, and I’m a recovering control freak. I find it really hard to detach and want to still be around them. So I end up in my bedroom to avoid drama, and at least I won’t say anything I regret that way. They act like I should just come out and act like nothing happened, and if it wasn’t almost a daily or weekly badgering, I’d probably blow it off. I kind of want to live by myself, but can’t afford to…plus I should try to learn to get along better with my son when he’s making personal digs.

    That’s another struggle…I find living in the present helpful, but at assume point I feel like I’d be oblivious if I didn’t at least recognize negative patterns that continue happening…especially when they’re daily or weekly.

    I’d love the input of all the wise minds on this website, because I’m struggling to figure out a balance that makes sense in my mind so that I can either find peace, tolerance, acceptance, patience, equanimity to find happiness & recommit to this marriage…or leave. Even if I leave,I still need to learn how to detach & retain equanimity when my son is sarcastic or condescending. I have a feeling it’s my inner child responding to my sister’s cruelty, because I just find myself wanting to hide in my safe place (my bedroom), and then it’s hard to come out and make up when there’s no apology nor remorse. I try to find happiness in my room, but I need to learn to still have a relationship with my son, even when he’s being difficult. I want to be that person that can let things roll off their back while still hanging out with my son even if he’s in a mood or being mean.

    Ideas?

    June 15, 2014 at 1:41 pm #58877
    The Ruminant
    Participant

    Dear Lisa,

    You use some interesting words like “how to handle my husband”. Your job is to handle yourself and your actions and communicate clearly what you feel and what you need. If something hurts you, it is your job to clearly state that you are hurting. How other people respond to that is outside of your control. You can hold onto your boundaries and refuse to be bullied with sarcastic comments. If you don’t respect yourself enough to stand up for yourself, then it is usually an invitation for other people to walk all over you.

    I’m neither married, nor am I a parent, so I can’t personally know all the things that go into such dynamics. There’s just something about your writing that sounds like you go into your shell and you become passive and bitter. That’s not going to make you happy nor will it solve the situation. That said, it’s not just your job to make the marriage work and if your husband is giving you silent treatment, then he’s being passive-aggressive as well. He has to step up as well, but you can’t force him to, nor manipulate him. Can you talk with him without any shaming or guilting? Just express what you feel and what you need and ask what he needs and how he feels. If you felt loved and cared for, would the flirting feel as bad as it does right now? My point is that the flirting is a thing that you focus on right now, but is it really the root of all problems or something that has become a problem, because you don’t feel safe or acknowledged?

    On top of that, you can also work on tending to yourself in ways that makes you feel safe, loved, acknowledged and cared for. Those things can come from yourself to yourself as well, and not only from other people.

    June 16, 2014 at 4:47 am #58906
    Mike
    Participant

    A lot of times people get into arguments its simply the one person seems to attack the other when they have done wrong, “There you go! You’re doing it again!”
    “Doing what again?!?”
    “Don’t play stupid with me!” And the person storms out of the room and a door slams in another part of the house while the other person giggles at their ability to get under their skin.
    and that just leads into a never ending script. That’s just an example I have no idea how you and your husband actually communicate.
    It would be better to start the conversation as such, “When you [behavior] it really causes me to feel as if you aren’t interested in me and that really hurts my self esteem.”
    I think that style of communication really opens up to more civil conversation, because then he may reveal why he acts in the way that hurts you, “I’m sorry its just that I feel like you don’t try yourself.” It is a more direct and assertive way to communicate, not aggressive and not passive.

    June 16, 2014 at 12:53 pm #58914
    Lisa
    Participant

    Thank you so much for your incredibly helpful replies. I would like to clarify on my wording. I meant handling my situation with my husband, but maybe I should listen to my thoughts better and see if my mind was wishing it could handle something I can’t control, huh!

    Ruminant, you make a good point about the flirting. While our counselor felt like his flirting (that has happened since we first had my son) is a result of my husband’s self esteem issues, it never occurred to me that it may also be related to me feeling like he is so caught up in his own perspective that it makes me feel like he doesn’t care how it looks in my eyes -thus not care about my feelings. It may not help that he has ADD, because things that require mindfulness, consistency, or effort are not generally his strengths….other than his job, which he excels at. As a mindfulness newbie, this is all really teaching me a lot about myself and my husband. But it also isn’t helpful when he accuses me of “twisting things” when I explain how I feel.

    I think I stay in my room for a few reasons,& maybe you can offer suggestions. It’s typically gone one of two ways when we have differences….there’s either constant sarcasm or he wants to hang out and be “nice”about little things like the weather. But when I come out then he’ll never resolve things because I feel like he thinks things are back to “normal.” I never thought about the possibility that my staying in my may be passive aggressive, so I’m going to watch myself on that…thank you for your honesty.

    Mike, great points too. In the past, that was probably how we interacted…and we didn’t even know that wasn’t how everyone interacts. We’ve really just started trying to learn empathetic listening last year. I try practicing all those tips from the articles on self soothing, meditation, distraction, equanimity, etc. Ijust started using a great CBT Diary app by Excel At Life and a Track a Trigger app that helps me be more mindful, rational, find the positive & put things in perspective. I’ve complied a great list of mantras and tips I go to when I feel vulnerable, and my family says they notice a big difference.

    But after a week or more of my husband pushing my buttons, I finally let it get to me when I’m vulnerable and I give in and lose my cool. I’m trying not to beat myself up and be grateful for the incredible progress I’m making and the strength I’ve shown, but it just runs me down no matter how much I practice all my happiness tools and try to retain equanimity non-stop for days. After repeatedly going thru a week or more of this, I’ve gotten to where i just want to end it with divorce. Ironically, when I tell him that, suddenly he decides to make the effort and becomes the “perfect” husband and communicatorfor a while. It’s become a predictable cycle, and I don’t know how to stop it or lessen it. The first few times, I was better at staying mindful,talking and resolving things. But now that it’s become a regular occurrence where he stonewalls for a week or more, I think I’m losing my desire to remain mindful as it approaches a week or more and I just want to give up and end it with divorce. Ironically, he’s suddenly ready to talk rationally after I start talking divorce. But by time he finally makes that effort to talk, I feel anger, bitter,and resentment, and it’s hard to just drop a week of badgering, soften my heart, and want to just jump in and resolve things right away after waiting a week or more. I feel like I come into this mindful and ready to resolve things, and try and try and try, and then after a days of feeling ignored and/or being badgered, I start giving up on trying. Maybe it’s because I’m not letting go of an attachment to expectations that I’d desire that he get better at not resorting to stonewalling and button pushing, but I guess I need to figure out what that is showing me about myself and remember to focus on what I can control…taking unconditional responsibility for myself and determine if any of my actions play a role in these issues. That’s a hard one for me. It is hard to resist my mind’s urge to make him wait “so he can see how it feels” to be stonewalled, but trying to remember who I want to be and align my behaviour with those values as best I can. This is all a learning process, but I clearly have a lot more learning in this mindfulness journey. It’s SO hard sometimes, but I know it’ll be with it in the long run.

    Does anyone have suggestions for how I can keep equanimity after a week of continuous avoidance and button pushing? I’ve learned to do it for days, but darn if it can’t catch me off guard when I’m vulnerable! Meanwhile, I think I’m going to look back on our texts and my journal entries and take another good honest look to evaluate my role in this.

    Thank you do much for your wise words. 🙂

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Lisa.
    • This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Lisa.
    June 16, 2014 at 1:27 pm #58919
    The Ruminant
    Participant

    Lisa,

    I want to just point out, that the reason I focused more on your part was because you’re the one who is here asking what to do. There is no doubt in my mind that he should work on a lot of things. The problem is though, that it’s not going to be helpful for you if we say “if only he would change, then everything would be OK”. That’s the mantra of codependents 🙂 You can only control yourself and be honest in your communication with others in what you need and what you feel.

    It really does sound like the environment is rather toxic and you’re both (or all three of you) stuck in a difficult situation. I can completely understand that it’s very difficult to get your own confidence back to where it should be in an environment like that, and that it is indeed easier to withdraw. Could you be more active outside of your home, attending events with a healthy environment? Or perhaps even a support group of some kind? When you’re alone in your own space, it’s so much easier to start over-thinking things and ruminating over what is going on in your mind and sometimes things will blow out of proportion. Quite frankly, I think that’s what is happening to your husband as well.

    I’m also not downplaying his flirting. Or perhaps I am a bit, as I’ve never really seen anything bad about flirting…when it’s healthy and not used as an ego-boost. I can also completely understand that it would become a bigger issue if both have some work to do with self-esteem. With higher self-esteem, a bit of a wink and a smile and laughter with others isn’t such a threat. It’s just being playful. But now it’s another nail in the coffin, so to speak.

    I do hope that you’ll get some kind of resolution to everything, and that you don’t have to continue living in such a situation. It’s not good for anyone involved.

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by The Ruminant.
    June 16, 2014 at 3:27 pm #58931
    Lisa
    Participant

    Ruminant,

    ‘It’s not going to be helpful for you if we say “if only he would change, then everything would be OK”. That’s the mantra of codependents 🙂 You can only control yourself and be honest in your communication with others in what you need and what you feel.’

    Now that you mention it, I do find my mind going there. I get confused on the balance between my learning self control, mindful communication, and setting boundaries, and asking myself “Is this marriage is more work than it’s worth and maybe it’s time to end it” versus “Marriage is hard, so I need to learn to be more tolerant, accepting, and committed for the long haul.” I think for now,I need to make sure I’m not playing a role in our toxic interactions.

    You know,I never saw flirting that way. I tend to not flirt, because I felt it was disrespectful and disloyal to my spouse. But that may be because he would sit alone with an attractive woman at a party and talk all night and then when she find out that he’s married, she looked shocked. Perhaps I should evaluate my own views of flirting though. I think if I felt my partner or spouse made me feel safe, respected, and cared for, then I might view that type of situation differently.

    I do work from my home, & am realizing I start to over analyze when I have too much time. Now that my new hormones have given me more energy, I’ve been getting out more with an all-female MeetUp group I started. We take walks, have a live outdoor concert planned Thursday, had dinner Friday, dance to live music, etc. It’s helped give me things to look forward to & have gratitude for if I get in a funk. But I struggle with insomnia, and funny always have the energy to get out every day like that. Maybe on those days, which is probably when I’m most vulnerable,I should find more low key activities like watching the sunset over the mountains with a glass of wine. I’m also trying to focus on spending more time growing my business and trying some new things, because I went thru major burnout last year when I went through menopause after 17 years of doing the same thing.

    A support group..that’s a fab idea! Do you have suggestions on where to find a good support group, and finding one based on the principles of mindfulness?

    I’ve been working on my self esteem, because my mindfulness journey and that CBT Diary is helping me realize how how much I beat myself up when I’m not “perfect”…in looks, in relationships, at work, etc….& how that can be projected in my feelings with others. Ironically I always viewed myself as an optimist and go with the flow type, especially with my company…But I’m learning how my mind can be irrational and goes to the negative with events or my husband without also finding the positive. I’m learning acceptance, tolerance, compassion and forgiveness for myself and others….and that’s been a big struggle for me but I’m making great strides and just need to stay persistent.

    I’m so glad I posted this message. It’s helping me a lot. 🙂

    June 17, 2014 at 1:08 am #58973
    The Ruminant
    Participant

    Lisa,

    I personally see flirting as a kind of playful interaction between two people, and I don’t equate it with “hitting on” someone, which has an actual goal of seducing a person into action of any kind. What you are describing may or may not fall under either of those categories, but what is problematic about it is that he doesn’t seem to have a clue, or does not care, that it’s actually quite disrespectful and hurtful to other people involved. Including that other woman. Perhaps he is needy for attention, but that is something he has to address and not make it a problem for other people. There is a difference between being flirty as a person and disrespecting your partner, and I personally don’t think you need to meekly accept what he is doing. That’s part of holding onto those boundaries and respecting yourself. I don’t know what that would look like in practice, other than informing him clearly, without any extra drama, that what he is doing is disrespectful and that you would appreciate it that he would stop doing that.

    By the way, if you have your own business, than that’s a great opportunity to gain more confidence and that’s where you also need it. I keep referring people to Nathaniel Branden’s The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem. His thoughts on the subject are insightful and pretty much go hand in hand with mindfulness. It also talks about what people with low self-esteem tend to look like in relationships, which might be interesting to you.

    I don’t personally know much about support groups, other than I’ve gotten a lot of help from one myself 🙂 But mine was Al-Anon, which is for friends and family members of alcoholics. It was very rewarding to have a safe place where you can be vulnerable without any fear of judgment. Even though it wasn’t regular type of human interaction, it was a great way to open up in the presence of other people, and was a great antidote for just sitting alone, pondering about things. Whilst Al-Anon is based on the 12 steps, it was clear that many people had adopted (or tried to adopt) the idea of living in the present, which isn’t exactly mindfulness but close enough 🙂 In any case, I can’t think of anything else than simply googling what kind of different support groups are in your area and if some of them would click. Perhaps search for “support groups” or “meditation groups” or something like that?

    I’m glad you’re making such progress in your life. I wish that your husband can see that and get inspired to work on himself as well.

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