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Anna

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  • #402973
    Anna
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thank you! I actually had my ceremony yesterday. Technically I am graduated since the 10th of June but we got the ceremony only now.

    To answer your questions: put it simply it’s a mixt between my personal network composed by a lot of ambassador’s children/nephews and the fact that I’ve been working for a NGO for the past two years now as board member. It’s a quite big one in our country and many politicians (from national to UN level) and other big names used to be part of it in their younger days which makes the alumni network quite impressive to say the least. So basically, my personal network and my position in this NGO, allows me to work very closely with those kind of people. It’s really fun and rewarding. In addition, I worked for a while in Brussels where I also developped a strong network within the European Commission, some of my closest friends still work there.

    When it comes to him I don’t think I could ever do something to help. Because the thing is, it’s been 3 weeks now that we got our last conversation which ended with me sending him a message where I told him everything I thought about the situation and about him prior to block him from every social medias. Ever since I keep seeing him around a lot for sure, but I was ignoring him until two days ago when I bumped into him at our association’s building. Anita, I promise, it was one of the most awkwards interaction I could ever had with someone: i went to the building, he was there, i nodded to say hi, he couldn’t even do the same, like he got stuck staring at me. Then i got locked outside because i forgot my key inside so I had to ask him to open the door for me, I swear to you, I was being nice and polite. YET, he couldn’t say a single word to me, I am not joking, he didn’t even say something like « yes sure », he didn’t even nod. The tension was present and that was at some point kind of embarrassing to see thzt he couldn’t even keep a formal relation with me. Ok I mean, I know he felt very bad about me for the past two weeks but still, it shouldn’t stop someone from being polite or at least answer with a few words when I talk to him. Cmon, he made his choices, he told me straight to the point how he felt for her and for me. So did I. I thought the situation was cleared out, because cmon, if you are so sure about yourself and about all your decisions, stick to your words, be proud and confident about them. And, please, be at least polite. Like in a personal context, we can keep ignoring each other but at least when we are in this building, we both know that our relation become more professional.

    Ok I got that I may not have seen him in the best context; it’s hard to be seen when we are vulnerable and such. Because so far I think I wasn’t supposed to see him doing that. BUT STILL. He was in the middle of the main room, obviously if someone else were to come in, they would also have seen him eating.

    And it kind of annoys me to see that one month ago, he was still able to at least say hi to me, I saw him ploting some stuffs about me with his friends during parties (yes I over-heard and yes that was very dumb mostly after knowing all the context with him « dating/seeing » that other girl, like please, as I told him, during all these months where he was already seeing her, he should have ignored me out of respect for her on a personal context). Now ever since I pushed my way to tell him what I wanted to clear out with him, every time I see him, he is always looking and doing very poorly. He can’t even be formal with me. So at some point I kind of decided to ignore him. Because I know his situation is bad (and until Wednesday I didn’t really understznd the extent of it) and I don’t want to fuel more his misery. Plus, it shouldn’t be my issue anymore right? I mean, he decided to stay with that girl in a way, if he’s someone’s responsibility, he is hers.

    On top of that, as his best friend told me, he is pushing away people. I am not sure if it’s because he is going to leave to walk towards Spain soon, if it’s because of that girl specifically, if it’s because he is feeling really ashamed of his situation. Maybe a mixt a everything I guess. Point is, he is in an emotional distress.

    I genuinely wish I could help him but what am I supposed to do with someone who can’t even say hi back to me? I am making peace with myself when it comes to our past, he clearly isn’t on the same page as me when it comes to us. I can’t emotionally afford to get drained into his mess. He is not doing ok, but this girl should be the one helping him, not me. Now if he can’t even dare asking her to help him, then we circle bzck to what I was saying about the two of them. I al sorry, maybe I sound a bit harsh but as much zd I would love helping, I can’t put myself in an emotional roller coaster all over again for him. His attitude towards me isn’t correct, I understand his pain and his distress but it doesn’t mean that I have to sacrifice again my own well-being for him. As he said, we don’t owe anything to each other anymore.

    I will come back next week to reply to your answers, from today until Monday, we have a national celebration so I will be off because I al going in the archipelago with some friends. Have a nice week-end!

    #402957
    Anna
    Participant

    Hi Anita and Tee,

    Thank you for responding to my thread and I apologize for being so late. I was having my graduation ceremony and as major of my year, I had to prepare a speech and I was helping with the preparations. In addition I was having an interview for a job: I am now the deputy-editor-in-chief of a European think tank. I am really looking forwards to this new experience.

    I will respond later to your answers, because it actually helps me a lot to understand myself lately and I also needed time to process.

    However I would like to come back to some events which have happened so far this week. Obviously I bumped into him many times and I even saw him with that girl I was talking about. Tonight I was at a party with one of his best friends. She told me that he was taking distance with everyone ever since he was “dating/seeing” her. Apparently he was kind of living with her and they kind of rebounded, I am not sure if I understood properly this part, because his contract with his room was over or soon-to-be, or something like this, they live together until he goes on vacations with his family. I also saw him a few times at the building of our associations, he was there from 12:00 to at least 7/8:00, obviously I wasn’t here all the time, but every time I went there, he was also present and always eating the stuffs from the association. So it hits me: he had absolutely no reasons to be present in this building, he was there because he could eat something. I am not sure to which extent his situation is bad, but when I saw him, he wasn’t doing good at all. It was really obvious. I am not saying he wasn’t feeling ok because of me, but it seems to me that his situation is kinda alarming if he is at the point of having to go to our association’s building to eat for free just because he can’t afford something decent. And having to live with someone you barely know just because you don’t have a roof above you is also a bit concerning no? As someone who still cares for him, I can’t help myself but feel a bit worried for him.. I mean, when I saw him today, he was really pale and skinny.

    #402510
    Anna
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    I hope you had a good night (it’s soon 11:00 am here).

    I would say about my own self-esteem that it’s doing pretty good actually. Besides the breakup which obviously hurt me a lot, I really enjoy what I do, who I am and the people I am surrounded by. And everything got better since I’ve been taking distance with my mother. It’s amazing how a simple decision like this has changed me so much in only 6/7 months.

    When I was younger I grew up being over and under-estimated at the same time: being praised for my skills, for being part of the “elit”, for being cute, polite and nice, yet everything I did was never enough, I got a B? Oh well, I could have gotten an A if I had put more efforts. I got a new haircut? Oh well, you could have left your hair a bit longer, etc.

    Hence why I decided a few months ago to distance myself from the environment for which I never was enough. I realized that I could and wanted to do so a few weeks after my last conversation with my depressive ex. I was also talking with someone about relationship and I asked THE question: “are we meant to be together?”, she told me “it’s not about knowing whether you are meant to be or not, it’s about what you want to give and if the other can reciprocate it. Give what you want to give if you feel like it, don’t restrain yourself because you are scared.” So after, I completely opened up about my feelings for him, of course I was scared he would reject me, but I also understood and accepted that if I decided to tell him how I felt, it was in a first place mostly for me and only for me. My feelings are too precious, too unique, they belong to me and only to me, metaphorically speaking: it’s like wanting to share candies, if the other doesn’t want your candies, then it won’t make you like less those candies. You will keep liking and wanting them and at some point in your life you will find someone willing to take your candies and shares their candies with you.

    I fell in love with the second guy because of the emotional bond we developed the 5 first months we knew each other, it was not imaginary, maybe it was just about timing. Although I also think that everything happens for a reason at a certain time. So I don’t know. Maybe at the end, he also realized before me that me and him would have also been extremely complicated in the sens that from the 20th of June, we wouldn’t have been able to see each other for at least 5/6 months because of our schedules and that would be unfair for all of us to stay with someone yet not being able to provide the emotional and physical care needed when in relationship with someone. Also I just realized that he was going to walk to Spain and after we both knew that I was going to leave for Asia around January/February for at least 5/6 months. Ehhhh..

    #402505
    Anna
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Your first point seems very interesting and I am really curious to read more about it. Because after all i wrote, i thought it was pretty obvious that i wasn’t seeing only the good sides of him nor mine neither. Like, ever since the beginning, i was aware of all our differences. I don’t know, for me it was about complementzrity.

    Concerning your second point: I don’t think I am trying to explain/justify the withdrawl of those two guys because of their low self-esteem or their mental illness. In the first relation, my ex was actually very honest about his depression. We talked a lot about how it made him feel, how it made him withdraw from everything and everyone. When we broke up he even said that he didn’t feel ready for anything serious because of this. And having a lower self-esteem is also part of the depression-package.. he also talked a lot about him not feeling good because of his academic failures.

    When it comes to the second guy: he got diagnosed almost a decade ago with autism, I remembered a conversation we had about our therapies, his lasted five years. His lack of self-esteem was extremely obvious through the sentences he had many times « perhaps I will be for once able to teach you something », « why did you choose yo be with me », « if you don’t make the effort to  know me, then i’m not the kind of guy you want to date », « being around those people remind me of what I don’t have and what I can’t afford » etc).

    Maybe I can also put this on his lack of experience when it comes to relationships; i was the first girl over the past 6 years he dated. But i’m also aware that when being on an autistic prism, emotions and feelings aren’t displayed in a similar way as with neurotypicals (hence why i think i’m that much attracted to neurodivergents, being ND myself, it’s way too challenging to be with a NT). I have a very good friend who is autistic as well, we talked a lot about emotions and feelings and she told me many times that love was a way too abstract concept much before I met the second guy.

    I think it’s kind of normal for me to try to understand how their brains work. It’s not about making me feel better about myself, because I could have all the answers of the world about the kind of patterns their brains took before breakint up, the results will always be the same: us being separated and me being heartbroken. I genuinely think that since I am fully aware that a relationship with a ND is « better » for me, it’s also better for me to understand how a neurodivergency different from mine works. As we know that as ND we have our own way to communicate and create emotional bond depending on how our neurodivergency works.

    I mean, after digging down a lot with my ex who was depressive, I learned a lot about myself and why i decided to stay with him: it was not about love but rather about a sens of duty to not let him down while he was doing so badly in his life.
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>With the second guy, i don’t know yet what is the lesson. Hence why I keep writing here. What am i looking for despite knowing what went wrong already?</p>
    Actually when i think about it, i’m starting to see a reccuring pattern in those two last relationships. I’m not sure if i can word it yet tho.

    At the end of the day, I mostly feel that it’s more about trying to heal myself through my attempts to understand them and to forgive myself about some stuffs from my past or my own personality.

    To circle back a little bit about my depressive ex, interestingly enough, I was so sure he didn’t have feelings for me because he couldn’t develop some. But now i think it’s been roughly two months he is trying to come back, he has made it clear that he wanted to rebound with me. He told that he felt much better and that he was on his good way to finish his studies and to finally have his own appartment.

    For my first ex, i know the breakup and all the complications occured because of his depression which was very recently diagnosed when we  started to be together if I remember correctly. I wasn’t that familiar with depression.

    For the second, i think it’s pretty obvious that he wasn’t ready to settle down: him going to walk to Spain (and saying out loud that he wanted to be alone at that time), him not knowing about his life, him freshly university dropped out, him financially struggling (because from the moment he dropped out he also stopped receiving grants and these grants in our country are really huge, in USD i would say that it represents somehow 500$/month). Again his low self-esteem was also pretty obvious. Concerning his ND, the more i think about it, the more it makes quite a lot of sens. Although i’m still not completely familiar with autism yet. But him being so oblivion; for instance he asked me a lot of things which at first were common knowledges (ex: him telling me that i was really hard to emotionally interpret and it was hard for him to tell if i was really into him, despite me being physically all over him, complimenting him and spending a lot of time with him, sending pictures of me etc). To which extent his ND affected his ways to display emotions and feelings and how it makes him understand people’s emotions and feelings.

    I genuinely think he is a good person, however his life being such a mess currently, he just got confused. As I am too about many other things.

    Tbh Anita, i may be digging down where i should  have stopped earlier but i promise, it helps me a lot.

    #402489
    Anna
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Sorry for my late reply, I wasn’t feeling very good and I had some meetings since yesterday..

    a superficial connection is comfortable for many people who have had an uncomfortable experience with deep connection.

    I actually ended up having this conclusion about him, but again, to be fair, I don’t see how it could have been an uncomfortable experience; it’s not like we were mentally abusives, toxics, control freaks. It feels the other way around, for once in our lives, we were finally able to be open about who we were. Me and him, we genuinely trusted each other. We had plans and as we are both very fond of writing (one of his bigger dreams is to become an author and I used to be myself one and a journalist as well), we even started to write a novel together, it was pure imagination and pure creativity where we just freed our minds from everything which intoxicated us. On a personal level, I even felt that our two styles combined formed something extremely interesting; we both have the same references and the same literature tastes (Lovecraft being our master haha).

    Which is also why I am so mad at him, we had a strong creative potential, we were on our way to make something really good for the two of us, because we were planning to write this novel for a writing contest. When I said that our relation was really fantastic on all the levels, I also talk about this, we fueled each other’s creativity and we used it to produce something extremely positive: him because he finally found his missing inspiration and me because I finally overcame my writer blocking.

    I am mad at him for rebounding so fast with someone else because I am aware of everything we had together, of everything we did in such a short amount of time. I am mad at him for breaking up because he couldn’t overcome his fears and it destroyed his feelings for me, I am mad at him because I know he couldn’t have this emotional connection we had together with this girl, yet he chose to be with her. I am mad at him because he once told me that “if you don’t make the effort to know me, then I am not the kind of guy you want to date in a first place”: I know he is/was looking for a genuine and deep emotional connection where someone would love him for what he is, someone who would see behind his appearance. I am mad at him because I am sure that for him, if we stayed friends, I wouldn’t run away from him because he didn’t feel worth of being loved (all these sentences about him feeling useless, him telling me that he felt he couldn’t reciprocate my energy etc). I am mad at him because we saw each other for what we truly are, yet, when I thought he accepted me for what I was, he.. rejected me. And it grosses me out so much, just the thought of him being with someone else, doing these things we used to do, sleeping with her.

    oh, I forgot that he broke up with her as well and I understand that you didn’t challenge him before you felt that there was something off between you and him. Maybe you are so angry with him because he didn’t appreciate what you gave him, what would have made such a big difference in your life if you received it early in life (?)

    I didn’t even necessarily challenge him, once I started to feel that something was off with him, I asked him if we could talk, he clearly avoided me, I didn’t even understand why. One week later, I learned that he was seeing that girl, it just got worse and worse and I couldn’t have this conversation about what I felt off because I obviously had other things in mind. And when I asked him why he was avoiding me, he told me yeah no, I thought you were going to talk about the situation and I genuinely think that we have nothing left to say. I don’t even understand why he thought I was going to talk about this, and even if I wanted to, he could have simply told me by message that he felt that he didn’t want to talk about this anymore. Instead, he just avoided me, like WHY. I just wanted to tell him that we should piece ourselves because our attitudes towards each other was extremely weird for me.

    I think what makes me very angry is the fact that I accepted him who he was, his good sides but also his downs. I did my best to offer him the emotional support and the appreciation he was looking for. I know he reciprocated it a lot, making me feel better about myself. And I think the worse is that when I sent him this supportive message after I was made aware of him not feeling good because of a particular situation (which he told me personally about and asked me for advices), he didn’t answer to it because he felt that nothing good would come from answering it. How on Earth, answering a simple supportive message would be more dangerous than staying around me in real life??????

    -so you have a rich kid attitude in many ways, and you perceive it as a flaw?

     

    I don’t perceive it as a flaw, but with time and experience, I realized that not everyone was comfortable with individuals from a different social class. Since it’s easier for me to “hide” and because I don’t want people to think that I am a show-off, I try as much as possible to adapt myself those I am around. Although, as I said, I can hide but, in many ways, it will be seen once people start hanging out with me on a regular basis. I think this is really sad that I don’t care about social classes, money and those kind of things when it comes to my personal relations, as you said, I want deep and genuine emotional connections, which makes me feel closer to people who don’t come from wealthy environment, I don’t have to play an act (which sounds ironic when I just said before that I “hide”) because I can simply be myself.

    I really hate the fact that he felt so bad about our financial differences, because I am sure at 99,9% it was the real reason why he broke up and convinced himself that he didn’t have feelings for me. I mean, I got that combined with his low self-esteem, his current life, it didn’t help. But why refusing to be happy? Why refusing to accept that someone genuinely love him? Does he know what loving someone and being loved actually mean? I have some much doubts about this. He told me that his parents divorced because after two children they realized that they actually didn’t want to be together..

    #402417
    Anna
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thank you for your answer.

    I am guessing that the universal motivation of sex applies here, as well the universal need to feel better generally

    Yeah that makes sens, I mean, I did that in the past in order to feel better about another relation which ended up poorly. I don’t know, in my case it didn’t feel that it was the best way, to rebound so quickly with someone right after a breakup, unless all I wanted was a casual fling. I don’t know, maybe it’s me but I don’t get how we could create a genuine emotional bond with someone else that fast.

    IF she looks up to him and thinks well of him, and does not challenge him.. if she doesn’t ask him questions that he feels uncomfortable with, I see the attraction he may have for her. I don’t think that the dry facts (her lack of friends and wealth) attract him, I think that it’s more likely her attitude that attracts him

    Yet he also broke up with her. But I don’t get in which ways I would have challenged him to be honest. The only time I asked him if we could talk, was when I felt something was off between me and him. Otherwise, I don’t know, I was just like yeah, let it be. I never told him before about those doubts and all of those questions I had about me and him, I talked about this with some friends. I just wanted to clear out things with him, for real. Never ever I asked him to justify himself about whatever he did with his life; i even told him many times that he didn’t owe me anything, everything I did when we were together I did because I wanted to.

    Despite our differences, if I only thought bad things about him, I wouldn’t have fell in love with him either, if I was that arrogant, I would be paying much more attention to details such as social backgrounds and whatever. Ever since the breakup, I’ve spent a fairly huge amount of time telling him that his personality, his kindness, his intelligence, his reliability were some of the qualities I admired the most with him. And that despite his fears, I admired him for being able to always be present for the people he cared.

    did you express to him, when in the relationship with him, directly or indirectly, that he had to make specific efforts to please you, and if so, what were those specific efforts?

    NO-THING. And that’s the point, I told him ever since the beginning that him, being himself, was what attracted me so much and that I just wanted to be around him because his natural presence made me feel comfortable. Me and him staying in bed all day long or going to whatever events, for as long as it was with him, everything would be awesome for me. I even told him he could decide for whatever he wanted to do and I would follow his lead. I know he needs a lot of alone time, I know he likes to spend time with his friends and the day after he usually needs a cooldown. I told him, I’m the same so really, don’t feel as you had a pressure to communicate all the time with me because I would feel super stressed too.

    You know what? He realized that we were both from different social environments ONE week after we started dating and 6 months after we met for the first time. He told me yeah no, I didn’t know you were this kind of person because you come to this student pub and you know, it’s not really known to target the fanciest people in town, also you didn’t look like one of them. He realized it because I started talking a little bit more about my past, not because of my attitude. I promise you Anita, I know I have rich kid attitude in many ways, but never ever I would date someone or be friend with someone and then looking down at them just because why not.

    When we had to buy some grocery stuffs, I didn’t mind being the one paying for because I knew it would be complicated for him to afford some things, obviously I didn’t say it loud, but for me it just came naturally.

    what if.. what if what is missing is not entirely his self esteem, but your self esteem: what if your self esteem is tied to your higher social class, to your family wealth, to your professional prestige and social connectedness; what if this is your attitude and it shows.. (while all along what you truly crave is “a strong emotional and physical connection”)?

    I don’t get this part? Which attitude? I mean, nobody know about me and my social background, I choose to stay extremely private about myself and I carefully choose the information I display. And he was the only one among those people who actually knew about my social background as it seemed more fair for me to be honest about my life with the one I wanted to be with, I don’t feel ashamed about it, it may be hard to imagine it through those messages, but I really don’t over-do in real life lol. He doesn’t even know that I actually have two identities because of some protocols, nobody actually knows about this part of my life. Our first date happened in a park, on a random bench with random foods we bought in a random supermarket.. I talk more openly about these part of my life here on this forum because at the end of the day I know my real identity will stay hidden

    After, obviously my self-esteem is extremely tied to my social class, this is how I was raised, like the rest of the people from this side of the society, it’s unfortunate for sure, but I can’t deny where I come from. I can hide it, but this is also my core education, as much as I hate this class, this is also a huge part of me which would be very stupid of me to deny. I am not ashamed, I may not like it that much but I don’t feel that I am in conflict. Modesty isn’t my best quality for sure, but I also genuinely think that I shouldn’t be hiding this side of me with someone I plan to stay on a longterm basis. If I accept someone’s differences and flaws, why then it couldn’t be reciprocate? But again, I don’t care about from which social classes people come from, I don’t care about degrees, grades and whatever. If it was really the case, I would have been extremely alone in my world. I want to see people for what they truly are and I want them to see me for what I truly am.

    I think it’s easy for people to see your qualities, to think they like you for your good sides. But for me, seeing and acknowledging someone’s flaws and weaknesses, yet choosing to stay with this person, this is the real proof of love. I got interested when I saw his qualities which are numerous but I fell in love when I saw him accepting to drop his walls around me

    #402398
    Anna
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thank you for your answer.

    Would that mean that for him rebounding with that girl so quickly was also a way to reassure himself about his condition? Because in this context, I can’t imagine how low his self-esteem must has been, breaking up not because you didn’t get along with the person but simply because you felt inadequate.

    I really wondered why he chose her over me while he has known her much longer before me. He knew they had a sort of chemistry between the two of them since the beginning. So if at the end he just ended up choosing her, if she was really his first choice, why then dating me? I mean, he told me that since the first weeks we have known each other, he was kind of hoping that something would happen but didn’t expect too much. But again, we started to really talk only around November/December.

    Could it be a fair guess if I said she made him feel more confident about himself but not necessarily in a good way? Our university and the student residence where we all live being a fairly small world, it happens that I know who she is and what she looks like. And she is the total opposite of who I am or even another girl he used to have a crush on, 1/2 years ago, physically and mentally.  She is younger than him, she is also a board member of another association but according to one of my friends who works there, she is not really appreciated by the people who tend to find her “weird” (and I think it’s pretty obvious when looking at this association events’s pictures on social medias, all the board members take pictures with each other but never with her, unless it’s an official one where everyone must be present). She is never invited to parties, she doesn’t have friends either. In other words: she is socially very left-out and doesn’t come from a wealthy environment at all. To be honest, she doesn’t seem like a bad person at all, most likely like someone who wants people to genuinely pay attention to her.

    Either way, I can’t stop myself from thinking that was very dumb of him, we both knew we were genuinely happy together and very compatibles. Him dating her right after me while in a first place choosing me over her, kinda proves me a point: if it was the other way around, me being from a lower class, having less social skills, being less what I am in general, he would have stayed with me. How in 2022, a man (or rather a BOY) can think of a successful woman as a threat for his ego? Let’s be real, at the end, he went for her because she makes him feel better than me about his condition in general. He could have had “feelings” for her because she didn’t make him feel inadequate. He didn’t have to make any specific efforts to please her (1/2 weeks of talking and bam, they were dating while before they never officially interacted nor met up (except in a classroom or during official representations, what I mean here, is never meet up nor interact on a personal basis)).

    I can’t believe he also thought that we could just go back at the situation we were right prior to date, February was the month we were flirting ALL THE TIME. We were all over each others, being together all day and all night long. For a very longtime I really wondered how the situation could have changed so fast while when we started to date it was just so obvious that it was the most logical path for the two of us to take. Why do I feel like for him I was at the end someone he wished to be with yet he didn’t feel worth enough and once he had a chance he just.. panicked and screwed everything? I promise you Anita, I can sens from miles away, the same situation than with my other ex, will happen in a few months. It’s not a question of compatibility but rather a question of ego at the end.

    I’m still so mad at him for ruining something which was so good just because. The guy I’m seeing now, he’s amazing but I know something between me and him was blocking me. Turns out that it was the other guy for whom I still have feelings unfortunately. Don’t get me wrong, I really like the one I’m dating now. He’s amazing, ambition-wise, we are at the same level, we come from the same social environment, he knows what he wants etc. But.. I am not emotionally connected as much as I was with the other one. I can’t stop myself from thinking that something is definitely missing. And this is also why I’m so mad at him. How one could choose his ego over such a strong emotional and physical connection

     

    #402361
    Anna
    Participant

     I didn’t interpret from what he said that he would rather live with his regrets for the rest of his life. Maybe, just maybe… you misinterpret some of what he says..?

    I don’t think so, we talked a lot about regrets and how we managed them. For him regrets were part of his life lessons, he has a lot from his past, he told me that all those regrets actually were part of the reasons why he had sleep troubles. Like I know he never fell asleep before somehow 2/3:00 am despite having long and hard day working. He has a lot of unsolved issues due to the fact that he never faced them, he knows that in many situations he could have acted differently, our relation isn’t an exception to this I am sure. He told me: fears are based onto past and experiences and it makes people take decision they will regret, when obviously talking about me and him.

    It’s not like he would prefer to live with his regrets for the rest of his life, I would say it’s more about being very defeatist and not having enough will to fight for what he truly wants maybe?

     

     I wonder if this sentence (in your original post) reveals something about what happened: “Physically speaking, it worked amazingly well, we were both very demanding”? (I don’t understand what you mean by “demanding”).

    Oh by demanding I meant that we had a very strong libido haha. So this is also why I didn’t get why he broke up. We built up a strong emotional connection much prior starting to date and once we were dating, physically speaking, as I said, it was really amazing, so the physical and sexual attraction were well present. To be fair, we both knew we could rely on each other, we proved it many times, we also proved that we genuinely trusted the other by confessing so much about each other’s life. He told me a lot about his past, how heavy life has been for him, his expectations for the future. The ultimate proof of how strong was our bound, was when he confessed to me his will to go to Spain from July to November/December. I was the very first person he said it. Again,  even before dating, we were also very closes physically, touching the other every time we had the opportunity for, holding hands to warm up etc. At this point it was obvious that we were also emotionally attracted to each other. How could something between us not working in this set up?

    According to this website (https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/relations/what-is-romantic-attraction-how-to-recognize-and-better-understand-it/), here are some parts of the definition of romantic attraction:

    “If you’re together with someone, how can you tell if the person is romantically attracted to you? There is no straight answer, as everyone has different signs of romantic attraction towards persons that fit their preferences. Here are a few general signs of it, though:

    • You’ll feel an emotional connection. In other words, you’re attracted to them as a person and not because of their body. You like their imperfections, opinions, mannerisms, and so on. While physical attraction is still important in a relationship, your emotional connection is more important.
    • You like them for their personality. While friendships and even sexual relationships can be based on personality too, a romantic relationship brings personality above anything else.
    • You like hearing their opinions. Even if you disagree, hearing this person out makes you happy.
    • You just want to be physically close to them all the time, even if the feeling isn’t exactly sexual. Sometimes you just want to cuddle up to someone.What Causes Romantic Attraction?

      Unlike sexual attraction, which can occur simply by someone seeing someone that fits their preferences, and sexual chemistry, which can form as early as meeting someone for the first time, romantic attraction is more involved and can take some time to develop.

      Romantic attraction occurs when someone finds an emotional connection with another person, and this can include appreciating their personality, valuing their opinions, and looking to them for support.

    Hence my question: was the romantic attraction really missing in our story?

     

    I wonder what changed shortly after you started dating:

    He is the kind of person who needs to feel that he is fits into someone’s expectations and world. As I said, we both came from two different universes. I didn’t care but I knew we were very opposites here. He wasn’t aware that I was from a wealthier environment (and why would he be aware anyway, why one should care from which social class the one they love comes from). I am a straight A student, he is a drop out university. Despite him and me being perfectly aware of his situation which was temporary, I know he felt that he couldn’t fit in my world (“being around those people, here, remind me of what I don’t have and can’t afford to have” he once told me during a date).

    I think what changed was him realizing in which kind of world I was living in. Really. Many times he made me understood that he felt useless (“maybe for once, I could teach you something”). The difference between having me as a friend and having me as his lover is that in the first case, despite our social differences, he wouldn’t feel that he had to over-compensate (by being extra-communicative, more present physically, always be on top of his form) in order for me to keep appreciating him. Because in the second case, I think that he felt if he didn’t over-compensate these ways, then what could he offer to someone who has everything already and him nothing?

    He told me that for him the perfect set-up was back in February when we were just “friends”, but not, we weren’t friends in February, we were in this very hard-flirting phase, always together, always touching and looking after each other. I think it was perfect for him, because he knew we had something special, yet, he didn’t feel like he had to drop out his emotional walls completely.

    I genuinely think that I wasn’t the one he rejected but himself. He felt vulnerable around me. He once wrote to me “when I was a child, I was praised for my intelligence and skills, yet emotionally neglected”. It took me many years of therapy to understand that opening up about my past, talking about my scars, would not push away the people who genuinely care for me. But what about him, is he aware that me seeing his flaws, his past didn’t push me away but on the contrary made me feel even closer to him?

    #402365
    Anna
    Participant

    No unfortunately I didn’t c/c my post.. the link was just to support my argument and to demonstrate that my quote didn’t come out of nowhere haha. I am quite tired now, it’s almost midnight in Europe so I don’t really have the energy to re-write everything.. I hope it will get approved by tomorrow, I take that as a sign to log off and have a good night haha. I wish you a good day or a good night depending on where you live Anita!

    #402362
    Anna
    Participant

    argh, my post is awaiting for moderation, I guess it was because I c/c a link lol. It will be moderated soon i hope!

    #402358
    Anna
    Participant

     Regardless, some people’s memories are significantly poorer than others’, for various reasons.

    True but in his case, if I am being harshly honest with myself, I know he refuses confrontation, it’s a mix between his personality and a strong cultural trait. He also practices denial as I’ve never seen before. I use as proof the first time I asked him his age: he didn’t respond at first and I thought it was because he didn’t hear me, turns out that he was just ignoring my question, as he said afterwards. He is the kind of person who would prefer makeup his mind about a situation rather than admit he was actually wrong.

    We had a conversation a few weeks ago about regrets. I told him, what is the point of keeping things for yourself? It’s better to say sorry than feeling that you missed out something. Regrets don’t make someone wiser, they actually make you less and less able to be brave and honest about yourself. They stop you from living what you wish to to live, they stop you from daring being happy and on top of that, make you doubt even more about people’s intentions. That was my point. To which he said: “regrets teach me life lessons, it’s because I have a lot of regrets from my past that I understand, that I can be more cautious.”. So basically, he would rather live with those regrets for the rest of his life, continuing to feel nostalgic about the past. He even told me after the breakup, I remember “if I lose you, I will most likely realize how much I actually care for you”.

    Jesus, I just realized how much I buried from our conversations during the breakup phase. It’s actually good for me to write all over again about this situation, because it reminds me exactly why I keep feeling this way for him, why i felt that so many things were so off in his reasoning. I mean, I don’t pretend that my thoughts are the best universally speaking, but I don’t think that I have masochists patterns like this. I may be overthinking at some point, but I know for a fact that once I felt that I dug enough, I will not come back and will not feel regrets about anything, because I know I did all I could to understand and fix everything.

    you thought at the time, after two years of therapy, that your issues in regard to your mother were resolved, but seems like the issues with her were transferred (as I suggested this to you on Oct 22, 2021) to your romantic relationships in some major ways, no?

    Yes definitely. Although with this guy, it seemed that the situation was very different, he was very caring, he listened to me a lot talking about my issues, he spent so much time making me feel good, reassuring me when I was stressing over, he did that so naturally, before we realized that we wanted to be together. Him caring so deeply and without asking for something in exchange, that was one of the reason why I fell in love with him.

    But it seems like something deeper was still buried in me.. To be fair, I don’t really know what, because I don’t have much contacts with my mother anymore for the past 6/7 months.

    #402354
    Anna
    Participant

    Oh my god, I am sorry for all those little posts, for some reasons I can’t update my messages. Anyway, I just remembered something else he said during the break-up: “I am happy with you, you are happy with me, we both make each other happy. So this how I realized I couldn’t develop romantic feelings.” and after he said that he felt.. “intoxicated” by this happiness, that he felt that he couldn’t bring in the relation as much energy as I did.. ?????? But i mean, we both agreed that we were at two different extremes: him having a slower brain than average, me having a faster one. Me with my hyperactivity, I obviously have more energy than average, he told me that he felt he was draining my energy without being able to give back.. As I told him, I didn’t mind, him being happy because of me, made me happy and him making me happy was the main source of my energy..

    #402353
    Anna
    Participant

    Oh.

    I was looking for something else when I was re-reading one of our conversations, but then I found something: he actually told me that he was still recovering from years of emotional neglect. For many years he was alone, focusing on himself and his hobbits but then someday he realized what he was missing out and it made him feel bad about himself and that now he was still trying to figure out how he would like to live his life.. He told me that in January. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise for me all of his reactions now, right? I mean, I knew in what I was engaging myself.. I guess I just tried to avoid thinking about this.

    But then, I have another question, how comes, me despite being successful, keep getting attracted to those kind of personalities? I promise you, after my other ex, I felt very healthy and confident about myself..

    #402350
    Anna
    Participant

    – did you notice that you are expecting consistent, logical and well-planned behavior from a person who (if the story is true) was so depressed that he was prescribed with electroshock therapy aka Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT)?

    This therapy is prescribed for people who are severely depressed or severely psychotic and who do not respond well to other treatments. One side effect of ECT is memory loss… that by itself can explain inconsistency.

    To be honest, I am definitely not familiar with this kind of treatment. Apparently it happened almost a decade ago. I have no idea what was the starting point of it. I am very confused with this. I wasn’t expecting this to come up. Now I understand a bit more why I felt that he reminded me my ex. There was something similar in them, but I couldn’t put words on it.

    I think that he wasn’t serious about you nor was he serious about her. I think that you imagine that the relationship was closer than it really was.

    Yes, to be fair, some of my friends also told me that it wasn’t possible for him to be serious with someone so close to his departure. With his student room, he has a two months notice, he said to his best friend about him not knowing about going until summer with her, etc roughly around end of April/beginning of May. He will leave for his family summer house beginning/mid-July for 2/3 weeks and then he will leave our country on the 31th of July (I know, he told me that). Which also means, him moving out from his student housing end of June/beginning of July for sure. So basically, even before getting engaged with her, he knew exactly when he was going to leave. It wasn’t about him not being sure because of his feelings, but just him knowing perfectly that he couldn’t do so. Is he just trying to make him look better as individual than he is? I mean, as I said to his best friend, I know deep down he is a good person. However his current life is so messed that it makes him take the poorest decisions which make him look like the worst guy ever.

    People say things impulsively, or so to people-please, so to avoid conflicts, etc.,  and then.. people forget what they say. It is you whose been remembering his every word; he doesn’t.

    Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think this is it. Because last week, he assured me that he thought every words he told me, repeating some stuffs I even forgot and felt genuinely everything.

    Verbal communication from one person to another often get distorted when it goes through one or more people in between.

    Hm this is true but I would say that 80% of what I “heard” about him was said through messages tho and I got screenshots about him saying those things.

    #402348
    Anna
    Participant

    and also, what is romantic attraction then? because so far, romantic attraction deals with a deep emotional connection isn’t it?

    According to this website, here are some signs of romantic attractions:

    • You’ll feel an emotional connection. In other words, you’re attracted to them as a person and not because of their body. You like their imperfections, opinions, mannerisms, and so on. While physical attraction is still important in a relationship, your emotional connection is more important.
    • You like them for their personality. While friendships and even sexual relationships can be based on personality too, a romantic relationship brings personality above anything else.
    • You like hearing their opinions. Even if you disagree, hearing this person out makes you happy.
    • You just want to be physically close to them all the time, even if the feeling isn’t exactly sexual. Sometimes you just want to cuddle up to someone.

    How is that not what we used to have and feel before and during the dating phase? Personality wise, if we didn’t match, we wouldn’t have been spending so many nights talking, physically closes yet nothing sexual in between.

    Both of us cared a lot about the other’s opinions, again, we confessed to each other many things and we used to manage a lot of issues together.

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