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Cali ChicaParticipant
Dear Anita,
You are right she doesn’t need me, I think that I was thinking about the term need in a false sense. When you think about need you think of a child that needs his mother for love compassion and nutrition. When I think about need I think about Bodhi who needs me for his ability to survive on a daily basis. Although this may be a primitive need it is still quite Omnipresent in our society today of course.
When I think about my mother and I think about what you said, she doesn’t need me and in fact when she states she does and I fulfill this ever so elusive “need” of hers it is never enough.
She needed me to find the perfect guy so that she could fill this checklist in her brain and show off to society how perfect her daughter is. When I found this person, she THEN needed him to fulfill her every wish and desire She had. Then she NEEDED to have his family mold to her every want and need. When she communicated with them and collaborated with them, she THEN needed them to be something totally different and needed them to pretty much disappear from my life.
I see the pattern the need may seem like it’s always there but it is ever-changing so it is not a need at all. I don’t know what I would call it but it is almost like this empty bottomless pit that she wants to have filled but given that it has no bottom – it will never be filled it will never be full it will never be complete it will always be empty. In fact the more that you try to throw things down into this abyss – it just creates garbage on the other and accumulating in no substantial fashion and it hurts the minds and bodies of those attempting to throw any sustenance down there.The concept of that I actually need them is new to me. And I will reflect on this. Yes so much of my role has been of this power. But to be quite honest I may have thought of this as a sense of pride in prior years but now I look at it as a sense of shame. I look at others who do not have to hold this super power strength or what have you, and I think that I would rather just be simple and have none of this burden. I know that they will kick and scream when I try to take this power away. They already do if they even sense me rescinding just a little bit like prior to the wedding. they kick and scream and cry and make threats- make threats that their physical health is failing -make threats to cut me off just to then stalk me. Threaten to badmouth me to their family members but then try to get their family members to convince me how great they are. This was just one they sensed a slight disconnect not even a full disconnection from them.
For they come to me with anything and everything like drowning children they are 5 feet deep in the water And they look at me and say what should I do?!! and I instantly say well cut off the anchor that is tying you down 5 feet under and making you drown. then you will rise to the top and be able to breathe.
They say OK that’s a good idea. And proceed just to do it again.
Now I think why did I have to tell them that is what one should do?! Why should anyone have to tell them? For what reason. To accommodate the same cycles of distress over and over. The more I allow indecency the more I become indecent.What resonated with me the most is you saying about for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This is so incredibly true and I reflected on all the times that this happens in my life in huge ways and on a daily basis. For example before I got onto my flight my mother called to tell me that my father was OK and that will he will be discharged home from the hospital. She then went on to ask some questions about my trip, but her mind was elsewhere of course she truly didn’t care what I had to say. She then had instant word vomit: “OK well that all sounds good but make sure you call me every day, have fun and relax and don’t worry about us but be sure to check in.” And when you return let’s plan for you to have a visit. Oh and make sure you follow up on that job interview that’s close to our home, your father and I were discussing and think that’s the best option for you. But of course you decide. “
Therefore saying that I will incessantly suffocate you while you are on this trip with my endless desire for you to be in contact with me. And am waiting for the chance to pounce on you when you return.
I took this in and I turned off the phone and I went onto the plane, I wrote the above post because that is what came to me. Naturally I would have listened to her, she loves having pictures and updates when we are away, she thrives for the stuff. But I don’t want to and I didn’t need to. I don’t want to call her every day and check in and tell her how much fun I’m having because by sharing with her I have less fun. That may sound very simplistic but it is so true and so innate.
Part of this vacation is for me to mentally detach and how —by trying to continue to reinforce this Umbilical cord that you have attached to me over and over with 1 million sutures how will that allow me any freedom.Going back to your saying about every action and reaction. It would also have been natural for me to tell my husband hey my father is doing well why don’t you give him a call and check in with them they will like that. And of course in many families this would be normal -an elder has a procedure or surgery and the daughter and son in law check in. Sure.
Sure. But, this is not a normal situation and what it is – is reality and horrific. Sure is my husband capable of making a five or 10 minute phone call? Yes. But I no longer want to live based on what we are capable of, I want to live based on what we WANT to do.
If I had told him to do this he would have easily (despite all the abuse from them over the last year to me and directly to him and his parents). but then after he got off the phone he would’ve also had a deep sense of feeling of creepiness the same that I do, of them constantly trying to drag us down: hello thanks for checking in have a fun trip make sure you call us make sure you visit after make sure you don’t move far away make sure this make sure that make sure us us us us us.
All for what? To fulfill our duties as children. Of course, but what is that duty when it is abuse? what is that duty when just two days ago when I called you pretty much cursed me to the gods but then now think that everything is OK. My father tells me after the procedure that my mother was emotional and that she may say things like that but I should listen to her kindly in moments of distress, I should not talk back to her when she says such things to me because she is stressed out, she doesn’t mean them. I should learn to listen and only talk to her with a kind and nice voice because she is my mother after all, and she has done so much for me.
Sure. So I take disrespect as a duty? Because you gave birth to me so as a result I must endure. Thanks for letting Me know. I’ll be sure to adjust accordingly. At your service my dear parents.
Nope…
Cali ChicaParticipantThank you Anita, I just landed after 5 hour flight and I had not read your above post. What I did do was write out what came to mind and reflect on some old posts between us. Here it is what I wrote on the plane. I will then reflect on your above post and write based on that tomorrow. I do wish to continue to write on this while I’m away as it will be a good daily reflection.
Dear family,
You say: Go Have fun. Don’t worry – but I dunno how I’m going to be. But don’t worry about me- sniffle.
So what you did and continue to do-It worked before my whole life because I would naturally do what you said. Of course it worked. Didn’t have to be told. But what about when I saw the truth. When I saw it was perjury. That it was wrong.
I’m here all alone, so don’t worry about me have fun. Don’t worry I’ll just be standing here all alone, but make sure YOU Have fun.
Don’t worry everything is fine. Just keep checking in on us incessantly so that you can not relax for one second.
I want to run I want to escape. I wanna go to a mountain and throw my phone and scream and say take care of yourself. You’re Alive. You’re a human just like me. I am not more capable- of caring for you.
I suffer. I have pain. I can’t sleep. I die inside everyday but I rise above because I am super. More super than anyone. But only because I don’t know how not to be. Not because I am superior. I don’t know any other way – I don’t know how to be un-super. I don’t know how to be aloof boring uninterested unconcerned. I want to not care (sometimes). I want to shrug my shoulders sometimes. I want to say I don’t know and I don’t care. I know why I always have something to say and always have an opinion, it’s not just because I’m mirroring My mothers narcissism. It’s because I have had to -I had no choice. What do you think about this? What should we do about that? What to do in this scenario?Save us. Save us. We are drowning save us. Of course I always have an answer. If not me, then who had it for you?
Well you never learned to swim. You never even jumped in to swim, nor got lessons. And now I’m the lifeguard. I’m your lifeguard.
I want to emancipate. I want to fly. I want to feel light. I want to jump and fly. Well I don’t even know if I want it (because what does it feel like?). But I know I can’t go on like this anymore.
You think it’s benign and innocent what you do. Look at me with your stupid sad eyes. Save me, I’m helpless.
Well it’s not innocent – its a curse. It’s a burden. Yes you’re a burden. You’re a drag.I thought to myself what if I just stop. You won’t die. You’ll be angry and more “alone” in your head. But I am not the oxygen that you need. I am me.
You think you aren’t self centered. How can someone be self centered when they suffer? What a concept!
Well because if all you’ve ever known is how to play victim, it is truly only about you. That by nature is self centered. After a while the role gets old and draining. After a while no one wants to listen and people stop feeling bad. You’re just pathetic after a while.
So yes you are self centered. But more so-you are abusive to me as a result.
No I don’t want you to explain how you feel to me for trillionth time.
For, my whole life consists of trying to understand you. I frankly know how you feel. Because you feel insane, because you are insane. Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results – insane.
So understanding insanity does not lead to any enlightenment for me. I choose not to “understand” it. For, attempting to has only brought me to insanity.Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Before I go – I want to ask. I see the differentiation between #1 and #2. I also see that like you said my parents would pick #1.
Now of course knowing what I know, and seeing my (and husbands) suffering especially of recent – I am leaning towards #2. However, how do I “know/remind myself” that #2 can’t exist with #1 in place. That #2 is its own entity, and with #1 clouding it, it can not be sustainable.
Cali ChicaParticipantThank you Anita for all the support over the last month. I feel that there has been a culmination of events that have led to this week. The spotlight is on me. What kind of daughter will I be. What kind of sister will I be. Nope I shine the spotlight away to the inner me. It says what kind of suffering do I have- what is the quality of my own life. I hope to keep the spotlight there over the next few weeks while I’m away.
I will touch base with you when I return. I appreciate your honesty in all – and I hope to maintain some equanimity and boundaries while I am traveling.
I see the truth, now it is what will I do with it. Being firm in ones own self for what one needs is the precursor to change. It is the precursor to wellness. I know I am there.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I am glad you do, I knew you would as half that wisdom is from you.
you have seen beauty in me, and thank you for expressing it. I see it too- but it has been squashed.
Knowing this all now – what would be a good way to proceed? Step away from the hamster cycle that is my parents. And even with my sister, employ boundaries and do not accommodate distress cycles.
Cali ChicaParticipantHello,
I posted the above last post prior to seeing your reply. I will reply here:
“Look at your success, look at these five lines I wrote here, above.”
Looks to me that my “success” is finding these individuals (although they are different) momentary relief, at the expense of my emotional state, at the expense of severe emotional burnout. Moreover, this “success” is futile.
They cycle in and out of distress, and I am there to temporarily place bandaids, give the toddler candy to assuage the current tantrum. The “success” or “relief” they feel from me is not long lasting yet–the burnout I feel creates wounds in my life and those around me that is very deep and long lasting.
this is not success at all, this is habit and pattern. this is relying on imprinting (coming to me for relief) to get out of drowning water just to cycle over and over, bobbing the head in and above water.
I must break myself out of this pattern, as I am not achieving any “success” at all – not for them, not for me.
Cali ChicaParticipantYou wrote this perfectly:
where you let off some steam, relieve yourself from distress, receive some attention and empathy, feel better, continue to function…until the next time: another breakdown, letting off some steam, relieving yourself of distress, feeling better, and back to functioning… and then back again to breakdown.
It shouldn’t be this way because there is no healing in it. This pattern is similar to a child throwing a temper tantrum, the parent giving the child candy, the child calms down until next time.
I am also guilty of doing this many times in my life, and notice that I have recently decided to get off that hamster wheel (only very recently – which is a new feeling/position). I know that the hamster wheel above is my default and baseline imprinted in me from my upbringing. You wording it in such a way allows me to see how utterly exhausting it is. I see that you have told me that I don’t NEED to be on that path, and that I do have a choice to end my role with it. The path of healing only begins then.
i have brought my husband on that wheel above for 4 years – without knowing, without thinking I had a choice not to. all i felt is: this is me and this is my life, and it’s baseline. I am seeing it doesn’t have to be.
today I did not immediately find a way to relieve my distress my screaming back at my parents, rushing to vent to my husband about it. i took some time to think about it (then wrote it to you). I will process it. I will sit with it. I have time to do that when I allow it. When I allow myself the self respect and time and energy I need – I am able.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita
< Thank you for your patience in listening to today’s story. You say “Appreciate decency, don’t tolerate indecency.”It has been foreign to me to say I have a CHOICE – and that yes my parent’s behavior is indecent and i have a choice not to tolerate it, it is not my birth-given job to tolerate it. what a concept, hard for it to sink inYes, I just read your post to my sister. I was feeling quite similar but unable to word it. I had reached my limit and stated, that I can no longer go up and down and relieve your stress temporarily just to have you cycle and re-cycle. The pattern must end, and it does with actual real help (such as what you said psychotherapy). No one, not me, not anita, not any family member is able to “fix you
I think that brings me to my next point – I am a fixture that must fix everything. Allieve my sister’s pain and suffering, help my mother, fix everyone. I can not take it anymore. Yes, my sister is not my parents, she is young, and in need of help – but that has been more stressful than even my father’s heart condition (which is likely because I truly care about my sister and feel I am her parent – because I have to be).Funny thing is that my husband and I have a 10 day vacation we are going on tomorrow. He said like clockwork your family is having breakdowns and constantly dragging you (and us) down for support right before a trip.
When we were in Mexico city, my sister texted me she was feeling suicidal, I was there to help her and got her the appropriate person to get to – and she was safe. I am glad she was. But countless other times of things not so drastic. My husband and I have hardly any mental peace. Forget work, he is a surgeon, I am an anesthesiologist. Some may say those careers in and of themselves are stressful. Nope, nothing compared to the burdensome personal life we have consisting of dragging the weight of my family around. Being their saving grace and therapist
My sister, appears she is on a stable path at least for now – I will let that be and I have expressed to her my concerns about my own limitations, and that I too need to participate in self care. She does not know about what is going on with my father.
My parents, well of course I am curious to know how the procedure goes. It can possibly turn into a very serious and grave condition. On the other hand, I do not have any personal impetus to call them and check in on them. IT’s just not there.
Do I feel guilty that instead of being there for them, I am going to fly on a ski trip tomorrow with our friends. I don’t feel guilty – I feel tired. I feel that I don’t want to be there for them and drive the 1.5 hours (drive only) to get there. Nor do I want to do anything. I want peace. I want rest. I want to be able to shut myself off for a bit and restore
I know that I will have fun on the trip, and I have enrolled in daily yoga classes. I will have this time to myself to step away and focus on me. I know I need that and I know I will enjoy itI feel I am at a crossroads. I want to go down the path of self preservation, I do not want my family to be the anchor that brings me down.
My parents have single handedly ruined the relationship I have with my husband to such a great extent, but still, if you saw us, we have such a great connection and loads of fun. There is so much stress brewing in each of us though from all that has happened and continues to (like this week).
I want to allow myself permission to just be, to focus on me and him, to wake up and say – today I want to relax so I will. I don’t want to talk to anyone having a breakdown. I know it is not selfish, it is just not natural and innate.- This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantMy husband is more than a decent man. He is incredible and patient and above and beyond. But I haven’t been able to appreciate him or this because of my parents constant wrath. To be honest between them having a breakdown and my sister having a breakdown we don’t have even a moment. The last 3 vacations we went on either my sister or my parents had a breakdown calling us frantically. I’ve reached my limit Anita. Even look at this week between my sisters whirlwind up and down, and defensiveness of wanting help but not willing to listen. Then my fathers medical condition (which is an objective) issue. And then to this. I mean how much can one person take.
Cali ChicaParticipantI will add. to the above, after she hung up the phone. i felt some emotion welling inside me, some neck pain creeping up, and then it stopped. i did not feel sad, i did not feel guilty. i felt like stone.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
What I am going to write to you next is in confidence. I have asked calisister to not review my posts at least for now. What is below is not relavent to her current situation and healing, and it will only cause her more distress. What I write below is from me to you, someone who is not biased – but knows enough about my background and situation. Before I begin I thank you graciously for being a sounding board and someone I can write to even in the middle of the day. I also feel that I am able to utilize being able to write this down so I can disperse and expel it, and not become a ticking time bomb and blow up at my husband later since I haven’t let it out. What I am going to write below is an acute situation. I am taking myself (and you) out of the background situation of cutting my parents off, and no contact. For today and now’s sake that is not relevant – so I will write this with that in mind.
My father has a history of heart disease, 20 years ago he had a major heart attack, and subsequently had to have open heart surgery and stents placed. Since then he has had 1-2 episodes of requiring medical care for this reason, but overall okay.
Now background – as you know the wedding (last 6 months) have been very tumultuous. Over this time, my mother would call me many times and tell me that “your dad is having chest pain.” “because of you he is going to have a heart attack”
To the point that once she called me at 1 am screaming that my father is having chest pain – and then (mind you my father himself is a physician) I ask all the appropriate questions about it (given that I am a physician as well) – when did it start, what does it feel like, okay this doesn’t sound so great, let’s call an ambulance and I’ll leave my house now. To that she states “oh it’s not THAT kind of chest pain” I was fuming anita – I said then what kind of chest pain? the kind that you wake up your daughter in the middle of the night for – but the kind that doesn’t need medical attention?!?! you are not a doctor, and so if he is having any kind of pain he should be evaluated, but if you are calling for any other reason – just say it now.So she goes on about, “it’s not that kind of chest pain, but you know, the meeting tomorrow (some wedding related thing with my in laws) should be at our house not theirs…” blah blah
so in short: they called to scare me and cry wolf, dangling the “chest pain” carrot in front of me to elicit fear, guilt, and compliance. terrible.
anyway let’s fast forward to Monday. I woke up with incredible stress, my sister having breakdowns, a million messages, wondering if she is suicidal, wondering if I should jump on the plane. trying to talk to her, but trying not to upset her – the whole thing. being very supportive, but as her “parent” as she did not and can not go to my parents with this issue. I will admit it was extremely stressful. I am not complaining about it, I am just honestly stating this because I never allow myself to.
So that evening I finally fall asleep around 10 pm (I have started a new job in which I must leave my house at 5:30 AM). I have been getting terrible sleep due to all the stressors, and my OWN ANXIETY issues.
So I get a call from my mother at 10 pm, she sounds very creepy, not unlike these past previous conversations written above. She says hi what are you doing. I wanted to say what do you think I’m doing?!?! Get to the point here. She says well, your father is having some chest pain, and he has been for the last 3 weeks. I said okay. She goes on to say, so we just wanted you to know.
To this, I find myself feeling some anger rise within, but I am much better equipped than I was a few months ago -so instead I let myself breathe and calm down and then proceeded. I stated okay, so if he is having chest pain, and has been for aweeks, that is a red flag and he should get it checked out. I think he should go to the ER. Then I hear my dad in the background, oh it’s going away blah blah. I ask to speak with my dad. He sounds more straghtforward in the moment and tells me the symptoms. I state, just like you would tell any of your patients who had the same symptoms, what to do and how to proceed, you should also proceed with getting medical care (the whole time I am thinking are you seriously questioning what to do – what is this actually about?!!). they both get quiet, and then my mom keeps saying this strange thing. “well okay, i guess you’ll be busy tomorrow so i’ll text you.” I said what do you mean busy tomorrow. My dad states I will go to my cardiologist tomorrow and have an appt and proceed. I state, if you think that’s best that is fine, but also consider going to the ER right now. He states, no I think this is okay. I say okay (and I do trust his judgement since it is his body, and he is a doctor).
So then my mom continues and states that strange thing “okay so I guess we will text you”…then my dad states oh and don’t tell your sister. my mothers states the same and I start saying oh okay —i won’t tell her so she…(doesn’t get stressed out)but before i can finish the sentence my mother states don’t tell her because – she lives so far away what can she do.
i realize in this moment that she didn’t say what I did, protect your sister from extra stress, why alarm her if not needed, why cause her extra stress. Nope, my mom thought “there’s no point of telling her because she can’t serve us because she’s so far away” no thought about causing undue stress on her daughter who lives 2000 miles away. so telling – so typical. how can they serve us, not how can we decrease their stress.
so after my father saw the cardiologist – he is told to get a cardiac catheterization procedure today. my husband asked me if i wanted to go there today. (it would not have been hard for me to take the day off and go down) but i firmly stated no. I state in my heart I don’t feel that I want to go, for whatever reason. and I am going to do what i want to do, not should do.
I call my parents 30 mins ago, and my father picks up. He states hello we are in the uber heading to the hospital. (they took an uber because my father can not drive himself to his own procedure, and my mother doesn’t drive as far as this hospital is). he tells me what he has in store for today, the time of the procedure, logistics etc. i said okay good luck. I said how’s mom, he goes good let me give it to her – i hear her mumbling in the back. he said oh you know what – why don’t you call us later. I said sure, but I may not get a chance to call soon (I work in the operating room), so let me talk to her for a few now. he starts saying something like “oh you know she has some emotional stress this and that” then gives it to her.
she states (in our language not a perfect translation). she is in tears and states, we are on our way, and i have god with me. i know no one else is here with me. i am here with your father, and god is with us. i said okay mom. she then goes you should be here, i am here in an uber taking your father alone. you should be here with us, your mother is taking your father all alone. i said is the focus right now on dad’s health, or on making me feel guilty. she said it is on your father’s health – he too is extremely saddened by this. and then states okay i’ll talk to you later.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita, here is a good example I had to run out of work a little quickly today because I have a phone call meeting in about 15 minutes. I ran across a colleague before I left and she started talking about something so I stated very nicely sorry I have to run but let’s catch up later. Getting into the car I felt bad I felt like -oh was I rude, was I kind of abrupt cut her off? But then I start to think that all I was saying is that I didn’t have the time right now and it wasn’t necessarily anything mean. I notice myself having excessive thoughts about these things instead of just being able to rely on my own inner self. I notice that I will feel guilty about something like that so quickly and sometimes even for a long time which I know is something that I need to work on, I’m looking to find the first steps towards that.
Cali ChicaParticipantYes! And thus brings me back about your post about not reacting to distress with a compulsion to immediately relieve it. Like the Juliana example. Feeling inner voice saying “must invite others” and immediately acting on it to quiet the voice without taking a moment to check in with myself
Cali ChicaParticipantHello Anita, I like that you point out well-being. I think that that was what was floating around in my head without me actually being able to pinpoint the word. All of this is not necessarily specifically about a certain person a certain conversation or even boundaries it is more about maintaining my well-being in whatever way I need to and that may be different depending on the day. My recent focus is now maintaining that even in situations that are positive. I have had some progress when dealing with toxic people or toxic conversations, and I know that will be an ongoing journey. More recently however has been interactions with people that I enjoy, people choose to talk to, friends etc. even though conversations may be happy, or normal I sometimes do sense some guilt and anxiety. I know that of course that if I am burdened with that throughout my entire life is not going to immediately stop if you’re talking to a person about something fun and simple. However I do want to learn how to remind myself not to feel the need to “over-do” it. That doing what my energy allows is enough. what are some ways I can help myself do that? (Your thoughts)
Cali ChicaParticipantHello Anita,
yes i like that you differentiate the difference between living versus living with spirit.
Youre right – I have been seeing the truth recently. It has been blaring in my face. I’m sure for a long time but I am picking up on it now.
One thing I am working on this week and forward are boundaries. These are personal boundaries even amidst conversing with others, helping others, etc. Of course there is toxic people and conversations that one should cut out the best they can. But this is more regarding the people you do want in your life. It is more about me- that if I’m talking to someone about even something fun, that I don’t have to absorb the energy from the party. It’s also about how I don’t have to live with so many shoulds. I see that I feel I never do enough. If I called someone toake sure they’re okay I think okay what do I do Next. I can not sit with being content in giving just a little sometimes. This comes from the mother voice from whom nothing is ever enough. You give her an inch she wants a mile. I have to remember that just since I’m programmed that way – I don’t need to perform or react that way with others. In fact – it’s been exhausting and draining. I have recently taken a step back in exerting efforts with many friendships, as I needed personal space to heal as you know – I have found that it has been much lighter when I don’t wake up with the feeling of needing to check in with so many people. I then check in with myself more. I do wonder though how others can do this so naturally whereas for me it is conscious and deliberate. I do know it’s because of the way I’m wired and that I feel it is my job to be constantly social and available.
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