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jenny

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  • #366507
    jenny
    Participant

    So Anita, I took a break and read the thread again to let it sink in. I also went through a few other threads on the site that were on similar lines.
    Yesterday when dad called, I spoke to him about what I felt, I hadn’t planned on doing it but it just flowed out of me. I told him that I had felt unsupported by him as a teenager when I needed him to comfort/shield me when mom scolded/criticized me and that while I’ve moved on from all that now, it still disturbs me at a sub-conscious level. Surprisingly, he understood it. He accepted it, understood it and told me how he’s himself felt bad about it for a long while (I was surprised that dad remembered so many incidents and he categorically told me that here and here I should have stood up for you but I didn’t just to keep peace but I know it came at a cost). I don’t know if it was the right thing to do or not but I felt so nice. I didn’t want to live with a knot in my heart against my dad and once I told him all about it and more importantly, as he understood it, it felt nice and sorted.

    Now onto my romantic relationship which is my main focus in this thread-

    1. You were right, I do obsess about him. But after a lot of introspection (I literally made flowcharts at a point of time yesterday), I realized that all my obsessive thoughts are like streams coming out of this one umbrella thought that I have, and that is at the root of all of it. It goes like this: I loved him a lot- He left me- I was hurt- I wonder if he will ever regret letting me go/ see me as the one that got away. Everything feeds into this major obsession that I have with whether or not he will regret losing me. That is why I keep thinking if I was bad because I question am I worth regretting, and keep thinking if he’ll be better with someone else because that’ll show he doesn’t regret losing me. So that is my major issue. That is the thought that I have to let go. I can’t think of any way to do that besides just telling myself that it doesn’t matter whether he does or doesn’t. The relation is over and that’s that. If there is any other advice that you have in this matter as to how do I end this obsession with constantly wondering if he’ll regret anything, do let me know.

    2. Mom had told me this a few years back after one of my breakups with him when I was just waiting for him to be back aka obsessing to a level higher than even today. It had helped me but then I fell back into the relation and back into my previous doubting/obsessive tendencies. She’d told me that God has a plan for you, he does for all of us. He thinks about you. If you keep obsessing over all of this, what should I do, what should I not do, what will he think, will he come back or not, will he miss me/regret or not, you are doing all the thinking and worrying for your life, God will be like okay, she’s worrying/thinking about her life enough for both our parts, so let her do it, I need not worry about her life. Leave some things on God, let him also think for you, let him show you a path, have faith in what the universe has planned for you, if his coming back is what is best for you, that will happen, if his staying away from him is best for you, that will happen. Have faith in the universe’s plan for you and stop overthinking. Have faith that what is best for you will happen.
    I just happened to remember this advice and it stuck and made sense. For now at least, it is making me feel very calm. So I think this is what I am going to do, to let it go. Try reducing my obsession with him regretting letting me go and leave few things to the universe and take each day as it comes.
    This is what I’ve been able to figure out so far, will reach out as more things clear up.

    Love

    Jenny

    #366319
    jenny
    Participant

    Thanks Anita. I think there’s a real mind-heart battle here. I think with reading up a fair bit in the last one year and exchanges with you in the last few days, my mind has a fair idea about what is right and can suggest decent perspectives to others, it’s just that when it comes to applying it to my own life, in my heart and emotionally, I’m taking time accepting it and coming on the same page as my mind.

    You’re right, I will take a break for a few days. I’ve been going through the discussions between Peter, Marie, You and Me here to let it all sink in without getting overwhelmed. I’ll get back to you in a couple of days with all that I have understood out of it to discuss my next steps towards a better future.

    Again, thank you so much, Anita. I can’t stress enough how much clarity, engaging with you, has brought to my mental state. Definitely showed me that the kind of people you engage with makes a world of difference to the way you start thinking. Engaging with more positive people and maybe not being very close to some of my friends is definitely one of my priorities hereon.

    Will be back.

    Jenny.

    #366292
    jenny
    Participant

    You did really good Amelia. Yay for the clarity. Every step away from a disrespectful situation is a step towards greater self-worth.

    I don’t think you’ve ‘wasted’ anything. It was a learning experience, you gained knowledge that will help you make better choices in the future, knowledge about behavioral patterns, human relations and most importantly about what you really want in a relationship, that you may not have have gained without this experience. Also, people spend years into disrespectful relations before realizing. Be happy that you realized early in time and have a entire life ahead filled with potential and goodness.

    I’m really happy for you. This is giving even me strength. Girls standing up for themselves. And the upset feeling will get better with time, slowly but surely. Rest, Anita and Rose of Yellow will be able to give you more experienced perspectives.

    Well Done

    Jenny

    #366287
    jenny
    Participant

    Amelia,

    You asked how do you let go as even imagining the post-breakup scenario is hard. Gosh I was just there myself and then I read a beautiful article that helped me make a decision and decide to not remain in that relation despite very strong feelings and attachment (If I can find that article again online, I’ll post it here).

    See it like this. You are justifiably not happy with the current scenario, but there ‘was’ a nice time which makes you think that there is potential. You are holding on, expecting and hoping for a change and a happier future. Long-term Change in his behavior and his treatment towards you. Now, no one can 100% predict or guarantee it. Being even extremely optimistic, there is a 50% chance that he’ll change but 50% that he will not change , equal chances (though I think the probability of no change is rather higher as its already the reality, probability of change is banking on potential, reality > potential). Now without a doubt, you’ll be elated if he changes but also ask yourself that if he does not change, is it something that you will be able to live with in this relationship? If you stay, or marry, you have to go in accepting both the possibilities.
    That is what made me choose to not remain in the relationship. I was like, all this while I am thinking and hoping it’ll be so nice if he changes but what if he doesn’t? Will I be able to stay happy if things remain as they are? Will I be able to accept it, his angry outbursts and snapping at me? And given that my ex had similar habits of getting angry, shouting and being irritable like your current partner, my answer was no, I’ll be miserable if he doesn’t change. And though extremely difficult, that realisation helps you see through post-breakup times.
    I agree with Rose of Yellow that you can’t change him. At max you can inspire him to change but whether he actually puts in efforts to change and changes sustainably, is totally up to him. Ask yourself if that is a risk that you’re willing to take. I also agree with Anita, Specially about the part that sorry means nothing until its backed up with actions and not just short term actions, but long sustainable ones.

    That’s just my two cents strictly from my own little experience as your story resonated with mine, I’m not very experienced, so take it with a pinch of salt.

    Love,

    Jenny

    #366271
    jenny
    Participant

    How do I solve this Anita? I’m 28, since teens I have been attracted to these kind of men only. It’s like physically emotionally it is the hyper-masculine men that turn me on, I think now even at a chemical level. How can I possibly change that. Men who are actually polite and good don’t attract me that way, and the too good, dropping everything for you kind of guys literally repel me. I see them as I don’t know what. I don’t want to end up with a genuinely good guy and not feel that attraction and innately feel that for the chauvinist kind of men. So many genuine guys I didn’t feel love for, the friend I told you about in my early posts as being one of them. So there were all these nice respectful guys giving me the time of their day and I was running behind  a man who wasn’t even answering my calls. I think I’m feeling too overwhelmed with all this right now. I’ll just take a break and leave my laptop alone.

    #366269
    jenny
    Participant

    Come to think of it, I’ve all my teens wanted that kind of a partner, that’s what I found attractive. I used to describe my dream guy as someone broody, mysterious, with attitude.
    My typical lines used to be these

    – I want a man as a husband, not a boy. I don’t like very ‘good boy’ kind of men who are too polite and too nice to everyone. I like rough and tough men. It’s a fact, subtle rudeness attracted me. I always told L I liked the way he looked at someone, that firm, straight in the eye look.

    I think somewhere repelled by my father’s extreme submission, I swung to the other extreme of rudeness and arrogance, failing to see that a middle ground of someone respectful and polite but also assertive who could call a spade a spade is right.

    I get it now. I think it’ll take a few days for all this to sink in, but I’ll work through it all. With the pandemic, I thankfully have some extra time on hand.

    #366266
    jenny
    Participant

    I don’t really know Anita, I don’t know when it started. But yes, I remember I had it when I was 15. We had gone for a vacation for my 15th birthday and something upset mom in the hotel room and I remember her comparing me and talking about my nature then. Maybe since before that, that definitely wasn’t the first time that I’d heard her say that. But my self-doubt got really triggered since getting together with L only. Before that I think there was little in my life that I could become doubtful. Only good things were happening, school results, prestigious colleges so i think i was getting validation. Since L, when he began saying I don’t understand, I am this, I am that, when he avoided and ignored, then it really came out. I was 22 when I went to mom because only then i felt I had actual self-doubt and realized where it came from.

    #366263
    jenny
    Participant

    – Regarding my self-doubt point, on the outside my portray myself as very confident, when I tried telling my cousin that I have a lot of self-doubt, she was like you’re kidding, you’re one of the most confident people so maybe the fact that there was no one that could understand my self-doubt for long kept adding fuel to it without solution. I remember firmly calling out the colleague who commented on my promotion, for his joke, while literally thinking at that very moment what if he is right, he must be, he must have seen something to say this. But yes, my relation broke down my esteem further so much that I think that confident facade also came off and I became a crying, begging girl with him which I think I was since the starting, internally.

    Okay, I think I’ll go do something else now, got heavy in here. Do let me know if there’s something you’d like to add.

    #366262
    jenny
    Participant

    Thank You Anita.

    – You’re right. I will take some time to understand if I could have OCD as I’ve never really considered something like it but surely if my obsessive thought don’t reduce in a month’s time of dedicated efforts, I surely will consult with a mental health professional.

    – The self-doubt I have is really bad Anita as I did mention in my earlier posts and as you’ve also mentioned. It exists in every sphere of my life but since I attached greatest importance to my romantic relationship, this is where it manifested the most. I trace it to my childhood hurt only as even today when I doubt anything, anything at all that has my actions involved, it starts with just this that ‘what if I am not good enough?’ and I remember feeling the same when mom compared me to family friends, correlated me to a cousin who wasn’t leading a happy life and criticized my nature. I was a very academically bright student, I am at a high post at the company where I work and am regularly appreciated by my colleagues and seniors, both verbally and through promotions but still, still I feel immense self-doubt whenever I am presenting or leading a project, not just nervousness but immense self-doubt. Once when a colleague mentioned (he thought it was a fair joke to crack) after a promotion that my physical appearance had a role to play in it, I actually started considering it that maybe I am not actually that good a professional, maybe he is right despite all the tangible achievements. With my friends I feel sometimes maybe I am not fun enough, maybe I am not serious enough, maybe I’m just a fun friend, maybe I’m just a serious friend, maybe I am pretty so everyone thinks I am dumb, maybe I am not pretty, maybe my nature is bad. And in the relationship, now when I look back, I was one big pile of self-doubt because despite everything in front me of me, I couldn’t see it for what it is. I’ve started starting my day with positive affirmations to myself since the start of the year. Every morning while still in bed, I wrap my hands around me as if hugging me and say ‘ I am a beautiful creation of God who is confident, intelligent and deserving of love, respect and all things good’. It has helped quite a bit, it made me stick to my decision of staying away from my ex and has helped at work too. I will further find ways to boost my confidence and self-love.

    – The part about my dad and L is also true. I can’t believe you could see the link that I really couldn’t. I haven’t really ever seen dad’s suppressed anger, that I’ve never sensed it so I don’t know about that but yes, I remember never wanting to share that mom’s words hurt me with him because I felt he’d never say anything to her. I still don’t feel comfortable saying it but in my deepest core, I do feel that my dad doesn’t have an opinion of his own and will just say what mom says. there have been times, not now, but when I was in my teens, when I have wished sometimes that he were more assertive, that he’d call out mom for criticizing my nature. But I love him, everyone on the outside said that he’s an amazing husband and I for most parts saw him as that. But yes, I remember liking L’s attitude in the beginning, in a weird way, I saw his assertiveness, his self-assurance until it became too much, as masculinity that I found lacking in dad (Gosh it feels bad to say this about my dad). I remember telling my friend that I found his slight rudeness of tone attractive initially before he began shouting and shutting me out.

    Yep. Lots of self-work to do.

    Thanks a lot.

    #366241
    jenny
    Participant

    Also, Anita, apart from the last text conversation that I am utterly confused about and have no idea what it meant, this is what I gleaned from his calls and talks over the last 9 months. Let me know if I’m misunderstanding something.

    – He wanted me back, but he wanted me back on his own terms.
    – He was also angry with me just like I was angry with him about how the relation turned out to be, plus he was also angry that I haven’t been answering his calls, or chasing after him. In one conversation, I don’t remember exactly which of the 4, when he started shouting at me and calling me mean, I replied that why are you calling mean, what have I done, you left without any explanation once again after so many years together, still I am not saying anything mean to you, I am silent only, he had replied to that ‘I don’t like this silence’.

    Gosh Anita, I can’t tell you how therapeutic this is being. I’m literally feeling as if my head was filled with clouds which are slowly giving way to bright sunshine. I will forever be indebted to this site and your patience. Now I really must sleep haha and start bettering myself from tomorrow.

    I’ll await your reply.

    #366240
    jenny
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Thanks a lot for your very prompt reply to my questions, I really needed them.

    I’ve thought and Currently, I’m in the process of writing my reply post to it, and this one is only going to be about me learning my lessons and moving forward on a positive note so that whenever I feel the need to revisit this post and your opinions, I can find the positive conclusions from all of it. I’ll be completing it tomorrow and posting here.
    I think I’ve gained more clarity through your replies than I did in all of the last year and can leave my past in the past, just that there is one thought that is still bugging me and not letting me sleep tonight. While I was writing my reply, I kept fighting it, telling myself it doesn’t matter and now I have to only concentrate on myself but it’s still there. One additional thing that I learnt in the last few days is how repressing thoughts is not the healthy way of dealing with them, I expressed my silliest questions and deepest insecurities to you and it is helping move on better than what fighting my thoughts in the last one year did. So I thought, I might as well pour out this last thought too. This is a question and I would love an answer on it. I’ll call my ex L. I’m going to hereon see him only as a Learning experience so.

    As I said in my initial posts, L kept contacting me one month post breaking up with me for the 4th time. After he’d left and I had decided not to let him back again, I’d blocked him from everywhere to move forward as I know he would again contact me when he wants to like all the previous times, and then didn’t answer his calls from his friends’ numbers once he started calling.  (I had their numbers) When I reached a level of recovery and could talk to him without bitterness and hurt, I began answering a few of his calls to hear him out as it is not in my general nature to avoid calls and it felt bad and because I was half hoping he might, just might have realized something. I answered about 1 out of 7-8 calls, so in all, in the 9 months that he called, I spoke to him around 3-4 times. I’d sent him a few ‘please don’t contact me’ texts in between but he continued calling.

    All talks were generally like random, he sounded bitter throughout though his volume would be low and get higher as the conversation progressed. the first time I answered, his first line was exactly this (the sequence of the phrases might have been different but these exact lines were said), ‘finally, you do me the honor of answering my call, this is how you want to deal with it yes, by avoiding my calls, talk to me right now’, next time he started by saying ‘ Hi, this is L, you know what Jenny, I have spent many nights now wanting to abuse you, show you my anger, curse you’ and changed the topic when I replied that he doesn’t have the right to do that, next two times, he started by asking asking me how I am. All conversations were about him talking about random things and insinuating that he wants me back but not apologizing or saying it clearly, he would say how lonely he feels, would remind me of things in our relation, you remember we did this, we did that. I would generally stay quiet. One time he asked me if I would be open to meeting him, I appreciate it but said sorry I can’t. He would get aggressive when I would say please tell me why are you calling, or that you left, now you cannot call whenever you want, I was very hurt by the way you left me hanging. Not once did he say I’m sorry. In each of the 4 conversations, after a few minutes of the conversation, seeing him just say random stuff, I would just say please stop contacting me, and then he would get angry, he’ll call me an idiot, a bitch, say fuck off/get lost, at which point I would hang up the call. All this was unlike anything the previous times when he left and would come back, generally I’d tell him ‘I’m here and i love you’ the moment he would say he’s lonely as i would mistake it as meaning ‘he’s sorry and he loves me’ and then we would get back together but this time I could see that it was still just about him and what he wanted and there was never an apology. The last time that I told him please stop calling me, it hurts me and i don’t want to be hurt because by now I’d realised that he hasn’t changed, he burst out like during the last year of the relationship saying I myself have no interest, saying i am mean for not going after him when he left and began name-calling and hurling abuses at me, at which point I hung up the call and promised myself never to answer his calls again.

    After that, he called me again a couple of times in the last one month but I knew by now that with every talk it only worsened. Around 2 weeks after his last call to me Anita, one morning I just felt that now I want to move ahead, now I don’t want to be bitter and hurt, and then I felt that I should wish him well and tell him categorically because I felt its a dead end now and till he keeps contacting, a part of me will keep being stuck here. So then the morning after that I decided to send him a final text. This was two weeks after his last call to me, I contemplated if I should wish him well through a call but I didn’t want to be sucked back into a confrontation and so decided to leave a short text. This was my exact text:

    L, please consider this my farewell text in response of all your calls in the last few months. 

    I don’t wish to now keep any contact with you, L, ever. It hurts me and I want to move forward, It brings back memories of the time you broke up with me and I want to move beyond it. Please don’t contact me L. 

    I wish you well. May life give you immense happiness and success in all that you do.

    Regards, 

    Jenny. 

    I felt peaceful Anita. and believed that he’ll also take it as farewell and we can end it positively.

    A week later though, I got a text from him. This was the exact text.

    Congratulations on your idiocy. Spare me your silliness and keep it to you only.
    Don’t ever dare to contact me. 

    Regards, 
    L

    And this text is my Question.
    – why did he send this? I tried ending it well, why would he say this?
    – My idiocy and silliness? I don’t know why it pinched me. Where am I silly and idiot in this? He genuinely thinks this about me? This is how he wants to end it?
    – Was I wrong in replying 2 weeks after his last call? Maybe he moved on till then and saw me as an annoyance?
    – He is the one who has been contacting, this was the first time I texted myself that too in response to his calls and he is writing dont dare contact me as if I have been calling him.
    – Has he no realization nothing at alll? I can’t help but picture him laughing and making fun of me calling me an idiot in front of his friends. I don’t want him to contact, that is precisely why I had sent that text but now his reply and no call thereafter is making me feel so utterly disappointed.

    I want nothing to do with this, I am moving forward and early next morning, I’ll start my forward journey of self-development, starting with a positive conclusion post here, but I just wanted to get this out of me before starting that.

    Do let me know Anita what you feel about it and it’ll be great if you could help me with my questions. I know this is a naïve wondering but letting it out already feels good. I’ll try getting some sleep meanwhile and await your reply.

    Regards,

    Jenny.

    #366208
    jenny
    Participant

    Thanks A lot Anita. I was eager to hear your opinion.

    You were right, Anita, it was a very difficult and uncomfortable read but I agree with it, completely. In fact, one reason why I was eagerly waiting for your opinion and why I kept summarizing and adding to my last long post was because after I wrote it down and read it, something felt really off about it, something didn’t feel right but I couldn’t put a finger to it. Now I can. I think I myself felt what you’ve said a bit, somewhere in my gut, maybe that also added to my self doubt as to am I the abusive and argumentative one, but didn’t face it. I agree with your analysis of my mother and me, also of my father.

    I think I’ll still let him go as in a way I’m still hurt and also because after your opinion, I’m double sure that I have my own issues to sort out before I am ready for a loving relationship, with anybody.

    I just have a few last questions after reading your recent comments and I assure you that I’ll appreciate your honesty about the answers, so feel completely free to even turn my opinion on its head, if you feel I’ve been thinking wrong. Thank You so much again for the needed reality check, Anita and for helping me clear my head. It is difficult but I’m still happy that I am moving from confusion towards clarity. Thank You. My questions are as follows:

    1. Based on everything that you now know, was he narcissistic? The basic essence of his behavior towards me was as I’ve described. There were many more such incidents but the basic theme was the same. I was of the opinion after reading up in the last one year, that he had narcissistic traits tho I didn’t want to think of him as out and out narcissistic. But now as I had a part in it all, I’m thinking was he narcissistic at all? I wouldn’t want to think he was if he wasn’t and or think he wasn’t if he was.

    2. Is there a possibility or even a high likelihood that tomorrow he would have a perfectly healthy relation/marriage with a non-argumentative, more sorted girl and not be abusive towards her? I know its a naïve and narrow-minded question and no one can predict anyone’s future but after listening to my few friends’ and family’s opinion and reading up and thinking he is narcissistic, I’d been told that he will be the same in every relation. A basic part of narcissism as i read was that they don’t change. I remember one of my brothers’ telling me that ‘don’t ever think of going back, he won’t change. Extremely Selfish people like him never change’ But now I have that question again. The only reason I want to know this is that I’d rather accept the reality today than keep having a false belief and be exposed to the reality later after having carried a false notion from now till that time.

    3. I just don’t know how to ask this in a better way really, but just that was I bad? Was I a bad girlfriend and did I ill-treat him? Was I the wrong, abusive, narcissistic one? Will he be better-off without me?

    Lastly, thank you so much Anita. It takes a lot of humanity to care to show a stranger the bitter truth than just let them think what they want to. Thank you for the care. I know this real answer will help me better myself. Thank You.

    I’ll await your answers.

    Lots of love.

    Jenny

    #366194
    jenny
    Participant

    Hi Amelia,

    I completely empathize with you because I have had a very similar relationship wherein my now ex-partner would get angry, irritated, not answer calls, snap at me at the smallest of things and blame me in turn for not understanding/supporting/causing his anger when I expressed my displeasure.

    Strictly speaking only from my experience of 5 years with my ex-partner, such treatment only worsens with time and doesn’t get better. The angry out-bursts, snapping, avoiding calls, ignoring issues become more frequent and intensive as the relation progresses. In your case, if he uses you as his punching bag as early as 9 months into the relation, then I fear that marrying wouldn’t be a good choice.

    I’m still recovering from the relationship but trust me, if you choose to separate, it will feel better with time and will lend your life a lot of peace and stability which I feel is not possible while one is in such relationships.

    Lots of Love,

    Jenny

    #366186
    jenny
    Participant

    Take your time Anita, I’m just saying all this because I just want to be done with these thoughts in my head but there’s no urgency of a reply.

    There’s just a bit that I missed adding in my previous post: “She told me to not set dad as my only parameter. She told she was afraid that if I become too fixed on finding a partner who treats me exactly as dad treats mom, I may not appreciate my partner for what he brings to the table if it’s different from what dad does, even if just as good”.
    I missed out adding here Anita that following this advice which seemed plausible to me by mom, I tried taking care not to compare R with dad, or check myself every time I unconsciously did. It made sense, they are two different individuals and it is unfair to expect my young partner to have the understanding and respect of my father who has years of understanding. I’d try to see him for what he is and find love and respect in it but at the back of my mind, I’d know that what he’s doing is not respectful as I’d seen respectful behavior. Like in that restaurant washroom example, I never expressed that to R,  because I wanted to resist any possible over-reaction and unrealistic expectations and comparisons, even tho at the back of my mind, I did find it disrespectful because I was just not used to such dominating tendencies and impatience with basic needs, not from my father, not even from my brothers or friends. So i think that might be another reason why I tried not standing up enough. It was the lack of time and inconsistent contact that really got to me, that was something that I just couldn’t ignore.
    I’ll just stop talking about what transpired in the relation, at this point, Anita, it is endless and in the past. I’d love to hear about your opinion on it though to give me a clearer idea and I’ll look onto the future hereon.

    Regards,

    Jenny

    #366174
    jenny
    Participant

    Sure, Anita. I feel I may have gotten too elaborate in my previous post so I’ll just summarize it here:
    I think I grew up seeing my father treating my mother respectfully and as an equal and so internalized need of respect in my relation with R and thus, felt upset when he didn’t have time for me for weeks at a stretch, got irritated when i did anything wrong and shouted and verbally abused me. So I expressed my concerns but in return he either left midway or shouted at me and blamed me for being non-understanding or said ‘sorry now leave it’ but behaved the same. Here my low self-esteem came into picture and i believed what he said and believed that i was the problem and wasn’t good enough for him to treat me well. The same cycle continued and the very same issue till it reached a point where even my politely stating something made him snap at me and ultimately verbally abuse and by this time my self-esteem had sunk so low that I just couldn’t see if he was wrong or I. 

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