Anita, Good morning, It’s 11:40 in the morning where I live, the sun is shining so I am preparing to go out to nearest park for a walk and do some shopping later in the city. I will be responding in the evening.

I am fine, raining out, a bit, not too much. About to have my lunch, then go for my walk and later, socialize with people in-person. I wonder how you are doing tonight (your time)…

I hope socializing went well, not too stressful (It would be for me ) Have a good day Anita 🙂

Anita,

I am good, still a bit sick but Ok. I am planning to visit a doctor next week. Sorry for not responding earlier. I have not felt that good. Work problems and sickness exhausted me.

I have been thinking about you today, Anita. How are you?

 It amazes me how similar our mothers are, and this is why we are a great source of understanding to each other.

I am thankful for that, good you feel that way – I am glad to be and have a source of understanding!

The good list/ bad list phenomenon as I now call it, is a bpd hallmark, a result of the bpd extreme all-or-nothing/ black and white thinking. The borderline anger, or rage is also a bpd hallmark.

My grandma and mother both have this condition and this exact symptom. Although what I noticed some people never return from bad list. They stay there forever.  I am reading a lot to understand some of my own behaviors like getting angry at people for no reason, just sudden anger. It feels better to understand it, to try to heal from this anger.

I figure if my mother didn’t want to be this way, she would have said something at some time during the DECADES I was in contact with her, something like: I am so sorry that I hurt your feelings.

I think so too. Even if they did not have control over the anger they could still see us hurt. My mother heard my crying multiple times, heard me smashing things in my room, crying from anger, helplessness.. heard me coughing because I cried so much. I will never forget thinking: what kind of person is okay with this, how cruel she must be.. She was there, in the other room and knew she did this to me.

a victim-child should not be ashamed of having been victimized; it’s the victimizer-mother who should be ashamed of victimizing her own, vulnerable child!

I agree.

please do not hide and do not pretend.. anything.

Thank you, your words give me strength, hope and courage.

I don’t think that I’d dare saying this to my mother.. that would could easily bring another episode of borderline rage against me. I am imagining it now: she would react angrily and if I told her right there and then something like look at yourself, don’t you see that you have an anger issue?! She’d say something to indicate that she was having a bad daughter issue, that she is responding reasonably to a horrible daughter, and how sad for her… She never presented herself as the Actor of real abuse (ex., saying the most hurtful words for the purpose of hurting my feelings), but as the Reactor of alleged abuse (ex., mentioning to her that she had an anger issue for the purpose of helping her, if I dared to mention this).

This was the one time I dared to say this to my mother, to text this actually, over a text message. I wouldn’t have dared to say this to her face, she would have given me the look that could kill.. –  I learnt to avoid this at all costs. The context of this was the fact that she first texted me that she was sorry I was treated badly or something.. Not sure what exactly she meant, she may have meant her partner’s behavior because I talked to her about him at the time, how he abused me (she mostly did not accept the truth). But I felt brave enough to ask about her anger issues, I thought maybe she was apologizing for her own behavior. But she responded she was having menopause, as in: it’s not actually her fault. Interesting what was my reaction: I recommended her a doctor, a gynecologist, to help her! I even did an appointment for her, I was so caring and really wanted to help. She went there (she had to pretend to be a victim here, I tried to help her so she had to go) and was mad at me later about how much money she had to spend and.. stopped speaking to me that day even before she went! As in: I forced her to go there.

Anita, I am thinking about your advice to process a traumatic memory. I thought about other memories I have, the ones that are very strong but on the other hand, I am not that afraid to think about them – actually I recall and relive them quite often. I learnt after some time, instead of being past memories they become..less past, so to speak, in a way that I sometimes no longer think of that moment in the past – I think of other moments later when I recalled this memory. I feel stuck with it though.  I am trying to “bring this memory to the present time, … make the connection between the past and the part of the past that is still here” like you suggested. It is hard!

Anita, thank you for being happy for me! I really need to go for walks more often.

bring this memory to the present time, like I suggested above, make the connection between the past and the part of the past that is still here: the precious little, lost Joanna is Here and Now. Take care of her gently, consistently.. show her that she can trust you.

I will try to do that, Thank you Anita.

reposting.

Anita, I hope you are fine today. How was your recent daily walk? I thought about this today while looking out the window. (I am still too sick to get out)
I will be responding to your last post this week.
There was this one time when we spoke here about trauma, reliving traumatic experiences. I wrote one day I would like to describe it. Another day you wrote that (paraphrasing) you do not believe one can stop feeling pain entirely when thinking about painful events. It made me sad but.. I do not know why, I had courage today to relive one of them. I felt sad today, maybe because I haven’t left the house in days, I still feel sick and wasn’t eating too much. Also I have some issues at work and feeling overwhelmed and when I feel overwhelmed and exhausted I usually have this one memory stuck in my head.. little kitten, me in a car with my mother, and this kitten meowing and screaming, me leaving this kitten on the street and driving away with my mother.
I feel like I cannot move on with my life because of this. I cannot live with those memories anymore, it’s exhausting. All I had, all my childhood, my home, everything was lost that day. My dad, my room – my bedroom, my cats, my dog! my cousins. Plans I had, plans we had together with my cousin, the plays we did: we sang songs, made poems for fun. I had to pretend I will be there when we planned to perform them (just for ourselves) although I knew I won’t be there. My mother told me to lie, to pretend, to keep a secret. I could not tell anyone we will be moving out that day. Then one day we woke up, took some things while my dad wasn’t there (he probably still had not come back from a night out) and left. He came home and saw empty room… as I assume. My cousin sent me a letter after that when she found out I was living at my grandma’s (my mother’s mom) about 30km away. I was such in shock I don’t even remember calling my cousin and telling her where I was (we were inseparable till this day).It’s one of the worst things that happened to me (until then at least because what was still yet to happen was my mother’s worst and worst abuse AND her partner’s). I feel so hopeless thinking about it, like.. I will never get rid of this. It will be here in my head till the rest of my days. Every time I look at my cat (which I love a lot) I think of the cat I had to leave on the street, opened the car door and leave him because he was screaming too much, I don’t remember exactly…. probably decided (me or my mother) that better to leave him and take him with us. And leave all I had, all my life, my identity. Thinking about this and re-living this I am hoping to process this a little bit. I never had the courage to truly re-live it until today. It’s a nightmare thinking about this.

Anita,

– and this is exactly my mother’s behavior. There was always someone on her very good (idealized, “loved”) list and someone on her very bad (devalued, hated) list, and it was only a matter of time before someone on the good list found himself or herself on the bad list. No intimate associates in my mother’s life either, including me. She didn’t trust me after all, how could she feel close to me (she believed that I intended to hurt her every so often; you don’t trust someone you believe is trying to hurt you!) I grew up very lonely: no closeness with my mother, no closeness with anyone.

It’s my turn to say this: it is as if I wrote this. Except one maybe: I did have some friends and cousins.. but my mother quickly turned me against them, encouraged me to gossip at them which made me feel anger at them in result. She did not trust me either and told me this directly or other way. My grandma is exactly this: “always someone on her very good (idealized, “loved”) list and someone on her very bad (devalued, hated) list”. I have been on both, several times. My cousins have been on both my mother’s lists and grandma’s list.

I saw, in person, the other day, a daughter (23), talking with her mother (50 or so). They were talking like two people, no detectable resentment, no anger… I never experienced anything like that! At all times, either my mother was angry at me and/ or I was angry at her…  Some time ago, I had my teeth cleaned and the dental technician, a large, pleasant woman, was humming nicely to music as she worked, and once in a while she’d say “please” and “thank you” as she asked me to move my face this way or that way.  Feeling her gentle hands on my face and listening to her humming, I thought to myself: this must be how it feels, to be with a mother.

I have those moments too sometimes, seeing someone and thinking how is that possible, to be that kind, patient.. Even in nice moments with my mother when she had good mood there was still a risk I could say something and she would get angry. It always amazed me how she did not have to care to ruin my mood, to offend me, she felt so free to say whatever she wanted!..unlike me. Must have felt good to her to be so free, not being afraid to offend anyone (me).

Here is an online description of how a psychotic episode feels like (psych central. com): “(Psychotic episodes) can last like a few minutes to days”, “If I’m in a fully psychotic episode… I’m still here, I’m just far away“, “I know something is very wrong, and there’s nothing I can do about it. And in those moments I’ve even had the ability to think, ‘Oh no, what if I don’t come out of this?’”

Yes, it did seem like it but I think.. they (0ur mothers) still did have some control over their behavior. Which makes it more sad. They wanted to be this way.

I did fit it and it is not surprising to me that both of us have or had serious anger issues: how can we not have trouble with anger, growing up with the mothers we grew up with?

Most probably true, I have it too.

you are well-enough today, Joanna, just as I am well-enough today. Tomorrow we will get better and the day after, even better. It’s all about getting Better, not Perfect.

(Perfection is not an option for you or for me. But surprise: it is not an option for anyone).

I think nowadays mental health is talked about differently than even years ago. It should not be shame to be struggling. I do not want to hide it or pretend I am ok, like my mother. I once texted her (I think it was 2019) that maybe she should visit a specialist because of the anger issues, not speaking to people etc and she just responded “No”. She was in denial. Once she even told me she acts like that because she had a menopause and it’s hormones! (knowing she was like that since I was 6 years old and probably even earlier…).

Thank you for your kind words Anita. I am glad you are better now and no longer fit the bpd. I imagine you worked hard to achieve this and was very persistent. I hope it will get better for me too.

There has been lots of sun where I live and 16 degrees on Sunday so quite strange for a winter here. Last time it was that hot in January was 24 years ago.

Sorry to read it’s grey and windy at your city. I hope you can still find pleasure in spending time outside.

Talk to you in the morning your time 🙂