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lostcloud

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  • #282551
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Thanks GL – i think you are right, theres an element of wanting ‘justice’ but like you say, that may never happen and if it does, i will hopefully not give a **** by then!! haha!

    Your explanation of charm rung true. You sometimes cant describe the process that is going on or how they are able to convince you to come back / try again / excuse their behaviour but your summary did it justice. I sincerley hope that I will be able to laugh about it in the future, but if not – at least put it down to a painful learning curve that i will never repeat.  Feel inspired by the comments / tips on here and feel strong to not make contact or entertain communications, as i will be embroiled in his sticky web of lies yet again. It takes so long to get out, i am just not willing to go there again. i am not sure my heart can take it!!

    Sincere thanks for your post x

    #282549
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Hey Anita – Here goes. Bear in mind he is very much a closed book so getting info was very hard. He once made a comment once about he didnt agree with the way he was treated / raised as a child (I was quite shocked by this and tried to explore, but he got quite agitated and shut the conversation down. He said he wasnt abused.)

    What he has said about his mum? She used to be a model, but then became a stay at home mum. She home-schooled him and his brother (i personally think this was more about control than a ‘need’ to do this.. he said she enjoyed it but it meant he didnt have many friends and then was different when he joined at about age 10) He mentioned that she used to have a loving relationship with his dad but the love died and just before she died, told my ex she was very lonely. I think this bred a very close relationship between them because she sought love from her son moreso than your average woman, in replacement of closeness with her husband (sorry – thats not objective is it!). She also doesnt talk to her oldest child – his brother – as his brothers wife didnt like his mum and found her overbearing. She disallowed his mum any contact with her only grandchild. His mother very much played the victim but i dont think Dan and his family saw it like that – it was just like “there’s an issue with brother and his wife, they are being unreasonable” etc.  No accountability accepted. For example, they told his family not to send a christmas card etc and she sent one – the police then came round and told her she’d be reported for harrassment. She blamed the wife for brainwashing her oldest son.

    His dad was a manual worker, out all day earning a crust. Possibly cheated earlier in their relationship. There was a lot of tension from what i witnessed with what his mum wanted vs his dad. His mum wanted to move house, his dad didnt seem fussed. She took control of things – not just finances but social engagements. She had very little friends and both parents didnt seem to have anyone but each other. His mum was more engaging, his dad more awkward, almost in her matriarchial shadow. He wasnt a very emotional person until she died – but since has reverted back.

    His brother tried and failed at the sport thing, hence Dan doing it and excelling. He has been successful in his field and i think his mum thrived off of this. She wasnt a horrible person but definitely ‘reactive’ so for example, if she was told she had to do mobility exercises for a bad circulation issue, she’d rather moan about not being able to get about, than get on with the resolution. Very much ‘victim’ which is one thing i definitely think has been passed on. Dan would not think for one moment, he has f*cked things up but he could also make them right. He would sit and dwell and moan and say ‘poor me’…. i am more a ‘lets see how we can fix it’ type person..

    When his dad found out about his infidelity, he was apologetic and said things like “i dont know what he is playing at” and “i am going to have a stern word with him.”  But in reality, his dad is late 70s and has little control / knowledge. Dan lives literally next door to his parents home, so has to be quite deceptive with entertaining – hence his dad catching him with air hostess.

    Hmm what have i missed?  They did stuff as a family in their later years or the years i knew them. UK breaks etc but it seemed very much like they were reliant on Dan for fun / entertainment.  I think actually when it was thir wedding anniversary, his mum expected (not his dad but) Dan to be providing the celebration which i thought was a bit odd. Maybe thats just me? But i think she actually said ” what are you doing for my anniversary”

    Any thoughts welcome – maybe i have the odd family dynamic and the above is normal.

    xx.

    #282463
    lostcloud
    Participant

    I feel like I shouldn’t want to know because it seems like I am wasting energy on him – even more than I have already. But I am intrigued..

    i don’t know what he’s looking for but he mentions on his POF that he hasn’t found the right person… I don’t think even he knows what he wants!

    #282459
    lostcloud
    Participant

    If you believe that Anita… then it’s helpful. You have a lot of wisdom about childhood and I wondered about present challenges and how / if they influenced someone’s behaviour – from your  perspective x

    #282453
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Thanks Anita – i guess we are not all wired to change or to even recognise self-development – especially when it is emotional or mental rather than just improving a particular and measurable skill.

    i remembered something that you might have an opinion on. My ex – since he was 8 (now actually 39!), has played a professional sport for which he is well regarded. Nothing famous lol but he does received adoration from local ‘fans’ etc. Now this will soon be coming to an end (he is deemed old in his field), this surely must have an impact. I could actually predict this a long time ago.  He isnt being ‘fought over’ by clubs, offered exclusive deals or being touted as the next ‘big thing’. More just a delapidated old-timer. He hangs his hat on his sport and his prowess on the ‘pitch’ so to speak. This must also have some bearing on him seeking extra validation through women.

    Oh and did i mention he is being made redundant in a job he has been in for 10 years… the same job… because he cant be ar*ed to put in any effort to move. (But curses anyone who ever makes a success of themselves in his chosen day job field…)  xx

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by lostcloud.
    #282449
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Thanks Little Bee! I am glad we have comradeship in our pain together and it is amazing how an absolute strangers opinion helps so much on such complicated issues. (Some would say not complicated and i for one, would have never thought i would have EVER entertained a cheater!). That said, i also didnt think i would be bothered by redundancy and it really upset me. What we think we would do and what we do do, are sometimes different.

    I am glad my story helped you in some way to understand your own situation. As you said – we’d never wish it on people but knowing you are not alone, that people ‘get’ it, adds a bit of comfort.

    I agree with your comment “It’s for him to figure out why he is the way he is, and for his current gf to find out herself that he’s a no good piece of crap. None of that serves you or helps you move on.” I have spent so much time thinking about this but now i know he is now intending to (further) and in fact already has (with me – last year) cheated on her… it actually kind of makes it easier. Thinking she was his ‘golden goose’ was horrendous – she is younger and thinner than me – given he wore me down so much, this was hard to accept. But now i know he could have the most beautiful person inside or out and he doesn’t value it – kind of helps me to accept it. I am sorry that your ex went on to marry but that said – he still cheated – so what did she get out of it? Either an unhappy marriage or one based on lies!

    You mention “raking through the past and planting imaginary conversations and stories in your head” – i have been there so many times. Questioning times, when he said he loved me – was that a lie? Was he really having a good time when we did this, that the other..   Likewise that “tiny emotional pull that hopes he has finally realised that I am THE one)” is still there for me but actually why do we want validation from someone so damaged and disrespectful?? Its crazy isnt it!! Like Inky said above, its almost about ‘winning’ or being ‘the one’ because probably for a while, to us, they were “Our one” that we would have done anything for.  I can see, with hindsight, that i did ignore the signs, but at the time i felt i was giving him a chance – only for him to ruin it not once but twice, three, four times. Its almost like (visualising) being run over – but then the person reverses back over you, then runs over you again (rinse and repeat x 10.)

    I like your idea of repeating a mantra – anything to stop the noise of thoughts that are unhelpful. I think mine will be ‘i am ok, i am strong’.

    I think he will try to reconnect again… because he wants adoration or a back up plan. I definitely cant be going backwards emotionally. Seeing him cheating on his now GF (in my mind – still ‘my place’ – MUST stop thinking that) with someone else – as he no doubt intends to – its somehow made me realise just how low he is.

    Stay strong with your ex calling. I think you know what he wants- to play the power / ego game. To see if he is still on the xmas list kind of thing. Don’t wonder about him, if you can just tell yourself that was his moment of weakness but you will not break. You will not undo all of your good work so far.  Promise yourself to drown out the “possible scenarios out in your mind”..

    Unlike my ex, i am not going to enter into any relationship / quick fling / bunk up just now. I have had counselling too and see that as part of working on my lack of self-esteem and self-love. I wish to also set clear boundaries to make sure no-one is ever able to treat me like he did again.

    You cant beat yourself up about the past… the kids he had behind your back… you can’t and could not control him. But you can control yourself, the choices you make and whether they’ll serve you or hurt you.  Don’t look back – you’re not going in that direction as my mum says.

    I think fate has tried to tell me for a long time about ‘Dan”s behaviour – it was a sliding doors moment when i caught him in the supermarket (warning 1 of many), then to see the countless other suspicious things..  then fate was thinking “god i need to show this girl something more concrete – something she really cant ignore”).  So when it twigged the girl at the event was his ‘other gf’ – i was not even shocked. Just more disappointed.  I didnt cry as she burst into tears at the news, i was almost numb to it by that point.  My god have i cried since though. Tears wasted on such a waste of a man.

    I feel like i have rambled but it was great to hear your thoughts, do come back and chat some more if you need to – it is helpful in ways i never thought possible. The internet can be a wonderful thing (as opposed to the instrument he uses to feed his cheating ways).  I long for the day when i have a partner that loves and respects me and these types of issues are not even on my radar… x

    #282441
    lostcloud
    Participant

    That’s a really good tip – as you say, you can then exit without too much emotional consequence if the person isnt right because you can identify with the ‘child’ and could start to confuse that with who they now are.

    I do absolutely think i get you – i also think the lack of actual effort he has put in to changing any of his known behaviours is next to nothing. If you really want to change, you will…. but he says he has ‘demons in his head’ that ‘he deserves’ and that he ‘f*cked everything up’ – but without a desire to change, that translates into more than just mild contemplation…. the cycle will repeat.

    I am going to use your three tips below to help me with some further self-development, so thank you! you really have been a shining star in the dark
    <div class=”bbp-reply-content”>

    1) is he telling me the truth or is he lying to me
    2) does he keep his word or break it?
    3) does he behave respectfully toward me or is he abusive toward me?

    </div>

    #282393
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Anita – love the way you put your last person – it really resonated. I actually really disliked ‘Dan’ when i first met him. I said to my mum he is the type to be a ‘player’.  I then started to get to know him and the ‘glimpses ‘ came out and i assumed i’d misread a book by  the cover etc and pre-judged him. I didnt read my own red flags.  I think from thereon its been a mental fight between what i know (logic) and what i feel (emotion) and hoping that there was more ‘good’ in him that there was.  I think back to a 6 yr r’ship i had – which was beautiful and naturally ended – and there was never this ‘internal fight’. it was simple. with ‘dan’ it felt like a tug of war but i had many flags alerted to me during the time i just didnt want to see. I wanted him to be the good character he could be as opposed to the bad one he was…

    I like that anaology. I still feel though his childhood is somehow excusing the behaviour. I could even understand a one night stand more than a full – fledged emotional r’ship. That takes effort, if it was just the thrill of sex i could understand (not forgive) that more.  Just to build that romantic and emotional attachment with me, then with her, now with whoever – to not then ever ‘commit’ – mind boggling. Maybe i am looking through a tinted lense and he has a 6 month commitment level (after that, and little do you know…. he is on to the next ‘goal’ or triumph. hmm..

     

     

    #282391
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Thanks Inky – you hit the nail on the head about being the “chosen one” or being “the only one” which is so true because that desire to WIN even when the prize is crap, is still there. Anita mentioned being driven by emotions and that, along with what you say, makes sense.

    And i take massive comfort in the fact he is already conscious of his receding hairline and expanding gut! I am not quite sure what it is that ‘hooks’ girls in as he is not clever with his deceit. His POF is there – bold as brass – there is no denying his gf’s friends could stumble across it. He doesnt have a super smooth personality, i actually dont know really what it is i really saw in him !   Is there any scenarios you know of you would be willing to share? I would feel relief in knowing others have been through this – warped as that sounds..

    #282293
    lostcloud
    Participant

    See, i kinda think its a bit of a get out clause and i dont always think everything derives from the childhood school of thought. I dont really see how his dad motivates him to cheat (although i think his dad did cheat on his mum a longggggggg time ago). Anyway, i kind of feel actually maybe he is just selfish, greedy and lacks empathy / emotion to really ‘connect’ with anyone on anything more than a surface level.  Why does it need to be explained away by theories although i think what you said about him being confused, he doesnt know what he is doing etc is totally true. You can look at some of the most beautiful women in the world – Cheryl Cole, Beyonce – who i am sure are decent human beings and if they get cheated on, then what hope is there!  I actually think its more to do with the primal need to mate than him somehow trying to please his dad…

    My next steps is try to maintain no contact. This guy has drained me, for so long, its not going to be easy because in a fairytale world – i would want to think he realised he made a mistake or regretted his actions. Regret or guilt dont seem to feature for him – not to a level that stops him doing the same thing over and over…

    I appreciate your comment Anita – and any other contributors – sometimes you just cant see when something is toxic. You are drawn in like a moth to a flame… i might’ve been burnt but im not dead and i feel i can try to use this to create fresh boundaries and NEVER be treated like this by another human again xx

     

    #282185
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Hey Anita! I dont think his mum encouraged him because she seemed genuinely appalled by his behaviour. He always said she wanted a daughter to do ‘girl things’ with and i think she wanted a daughter-in-law so was a bit gutted he sabotaged things. In fact, she kept in contact with his ex-gfs long after they had split from him. I am not saying I MYSELF was the perfect person to be that d-i-l but she liked the concept of family & doing things together etc. I think she couldnt control him and i dont think he did what he did to please her, she never knew about things until i spoke to her to tell her what he’d done. He is super secretive in every way. His dad only ‘discovered’ air hostess by knocking on his door one Friday night – god knows how he introduced her to him given i was very much – in his dads eyes – his girlfriend and was there throughout the whole period of bereavment, organised the funeral… wake….. you name it. I even helped the dad swap all the details of banks over. In hindsight, i gave too much but i was just being me and trying to help in a time of need. Equally his mum organised all the finances so his dad and ‘Dan’ were at a loss.

    How do i give my mind some rest / ‘accept’ this is how he is? i keep ruminating over it, im in disbelief yet i have known now since last April (and before) what he is. A cheat. Why cant i just shut the mental door in my mind and think ‘good luck to you’.

    Why do i even care? In a way, i am kind of relieved he didnt get his perceived ‘happy ever after’ . it would be more hurtful if he’d have settled down and found my replacement to be his Miss Perfect (he probaby will i guess, eventually – his current gf is someone with a plan i.e. marriage by 30, kids by 32). As awful as it sounds, i kind of think “good luck” to his current gf who had ample warning about his behaviour. I never had anyone to actually ask about the depth of his deceit…  She has dismissed me and seems ‘smug’ with her ‘prize.’  His behaviour now cements actually that for me, it wasnt personal, he has never been faithful and to see him ‘browsing’ online making out he’s Mr Wonderful… i just am in shock there is no stopping his level of self-promotion and infidelity….

    sorry for the rambling, this is quite carthartic x

    #282173
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Gosh Anita  you are so right – i am so grateful for your insight, for some reason knowing you dont know me but can comment is really useful 🙂

    Perhaps i did feel neglected, i certainly dont recall it like that but as you say, we repress memories and maybe it could be small things rather than one big event of neglect or abuse. I feel guilty even saying that as my mum and dad are both lovely and as an adult have been so supportive – emotionally and financially.

    It is really sad, i kind of feel sorry him. He was home-schooled for a while – because of bullying but i also think his mother was over-bearing and definitely wore the trousers. The whole family doesnt speak to his brother because of a family rift. His mother  (i did meet her numerous times!) was a woman with strong morals but also excused his behaviour. She would say he was a ‘silly boy’ for cheating etc. She would reprimand him but he didnt see to care he was disappointing her – maybe because he always knew she’d excuse it.  He was clearly the ‘apple of her eye.’  His dad was a figure in the background – present but with no real influence over him or his brother, i dont believe anyway. I thought when she died it would have changed him… but it has made no difference…  he seems hellbent on seeking adoration / pleasure / thrill even though he has had a string of attractive & successful (and loyal) girlfriends.  He is definitely not emotionally healthy!   At one point (given his mum nursed her own mum until she died), his mum had suggested that her and her husband and ‘Dan’ look for a property with an annex, so (as they are in their 70s), ‘Dan’ could care for them in old age. I wasnt overly happy with this but viewed a few properties given they are an ‘all talk no action’ kind of family…  it never went anywhere and she died soon afterwards. There wasnt any ‘give’ with this arrangement – ie. we couldn’t have lived just near by, it would’ve been on his parents terms but he was indoctrinated by this ‘view’. For example, he thought it was absolutely disgusting my mum lives 100 miles away from her mum – she should really be caring for my nan in her old age… anyway i digresss

    I cant help but take this personally but i try to remind myself he is not ‘right’ mentally and will never be happy x

     

    #282153
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Hi Mark – thanks for your response, good to see from a male side. I have no cheating father (in fact parents are happily married) and never felt neglected as a child. My previous bf just upped and left one day citing ‘depresssion’ and ‘needing to find himself’…  I seem to attract (or seek?) these needy people who dont serve me.

    I know i wasted my time, i know you all think im an idiot, but has no-one ever had a situation where you gave someone a second chance (or in his case many more). or felt drawn back to the very thing that burns you?

    I am not after sympathy. I know what i would be saying to anyone about this is i was on the outside. I guess i am just so disappointed in the human species given i have never cheated, told minimal white lies in my time and would feel sick to the stomach to do even 10% of what he has….

    #282151
    lostcloud
    Participant

    B – i know, why wasnt it a deal breaker? How did he manage to convince me it was a ‘bad judgement call’ – if i was speaking to my friend i would be saying what you are to me.

    I think the thing that infuriates me is that he is doing it again. And i am painted as the crazy one. I guess i have to believe in karma and focus my attentions on other things. Without sounding whingy- it seems unfair. He has continued his life, no pain, just lots of sex, fun and now a blonde air hostess to hang off his arm. Where is there any retribution in life!!

    #282149
    lostcloud
    Participant

    Thanks Anita – I appreciate your comments. It is so easy to think you know what you’d do but when it happens to you – it’s like you are blinded!! I have definitely learnt to see the red flags. I guess my disappointment stems from never having met someone so deceitful and it being so contrary to my own beliefs of fidelity 🙁

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