I don’t believe that true compassion can be attained if it does not include self-compassion. Giving compassion to others at the expense of ourselves, regardless of the reason that happens to justify it in our mind, is compassion like to the other whilst being an over or under extension into ourselves. Compassion is the balance bwtween what we give outwards and what we have inwards. Anything else is off balance and sets of a reactionary chain of events that hurts whoever it was that performed the act.

This is captured in Attachment Theory where the bonds we form with others in social interaction mean that life is filtered in a certain thro our eyes as conforming our beliefs about ourselves. Theres secure attachment which is supposed to be ideal and outside of that there is anxious, avoidant and disorganised. A secure person would consider what the cost is to themselves and take that into account in their decision os whether they want to do something that looks compassionate and kind. If they didnt take that into consideration initially, then experiencing the outcome of their actions would inform whether they would do it again, or how they would do it again, and so they would reassess their boundries.

In the Vedic school of thought, this is a question of finding our dharma and the play between karma, and kriya. An act thro kriya is when you take the right action at the right time to the right degree and aligns with dharmic action. It considers not taking an action as an action as well. One done outside of this balance leads to karma where we experiences consequences for our action. Karma is suffering. Kriya is not.

And for sure, we cant expect everyone in a group to commit to being equally vulnerable, equally present, equally understanding. We can hold space for this and practise it ourseles to the capacity we do. We can act respectfully while respecting ourselves whatever that may look like to us but if we don’t respect ourselves and self-sacrifuce, this is noted by others. Its opens doors to how it can be used to manipulate and exploit us, it can be seen as a sign of weakness by others and be judged, it can reveal different degrees of alliances that we have with different group members. Any social act is a political one; its reputation enhancement, its wanting to be seen as considerate. Then theres reacting because of how we are feeling and that being taken as a communicative signal to others – we can signal unintentionaly to others that we are displeased or we can do it intentionally, and if intentionally, then what is the intention? Is it that we want thr other person to stop doing it, is it because we are manipulating others to see things as we do?

Conflict is an inescapable truth of life and not dealing with it well holds us back in life. It must be dealt with. Not conronting it at all is avoidant behaviour. Confronting it immediately is an anxious pattern. Confronting it securely – what does that look like? I’m guessing that its in dealing with it gratiously within a reasonable timeframe. Its in having hard conversations that may feel critical and blaming but doing it kindly. Outside of that, we don’t have control on the how others will respond.

Whew, that must be a relief! Glad you are all back home 🙂

Afternoon Everyone

Looking over the conversation here I think there have been some valuable point raised. HOpe its ok if I address them here to the person who made them. It makes it feel like we are talking to people as opposed to strangers, if thats’s ok with you all?

Silvery Blue – thank you for affirming with me that I will not be upsetting you by taking part here. I have a feeling everyone else on this thread knows one another relatively well, or are familiar more with each others stories and I think I am the new comer. It means a lot to hear that as it takes away some of the heaviness from me that I am an interloper. I love your point you made on finding your way with an inner conflict as you deal with conflict with others. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression that because you feel you have less trauma and difficulties to deal with, you perhaps feel you are less deserving, or maybe should place less emphasis, on how you confront the other who has more reason, or right, or even awareness, to react from their triggers and wounds? In my view, you have as much right as anyone else to be treated in a respectful and fair manner. When there is conflict tho, I can see why you may feel you can absorb more of the problematic behaviours that is fair. I take this approach in select circumstances; I do it with my loved ones and my children. These are trusted people whose wounds I know, and who have proven to me their commitment to dealing with things in a more healthy way. The other is when I am with colleagues who I have to work with, and acquaintances. With them I will take their treatment a small number of times, even just once depending on the nature of the conflict, and then reassess what my new boundary will be with them going forwards. I have family who I consider to be of this second sort who, bec they are ‘family’, I accept in my life to a certain degree. So they are people who do not treat me respectfully yet I see as within some sort of inner circle. In that type of case I treat it with caution. Conflicts there are unresolvable Ive found. Ill give them the space to express themselves but I will not expend energy on repeatedly explaining my points to them, or convincing them of why my needs should be considered. This is a power play as far as I am concerned and I will not enable them further by giving them my power. I really happy to hear you have found another supportive online community. Id love to get involved in it if you are willing to share the name? On that, what do you think it is about that space and this one that makes it feel safe to you?

Peter – I’d be interested in how you conceptualise forgiveness. I have had a battle with forgiveness for most of my life. I see its merits but it causes harm to the self too, when done out of obligation or because we force ourselves into it thro some body of wisdom or because of society’s expectations of what it is to be a good/moral person. And yes, tension 🙂 It does provide impetus into some really engaging and energising conversations I find because there is often a lot of passion and strong opinions to be aired. Shadow work is my jam! I love it and I am always curious about finding ways to hook myself into it. No matter how much external factors may disrupt my peace, integrating my shadow has always given me a new sense of calm. I’ve found various online resources about shadow work. My youtube algorithm is a master at digging these up for me but I have also found other resources such as the personal development school, which is an online community and platform where you can pay for courses into various types of relational healing with self and other. I have been studying the Vedas lately to see how it deals with the nature of reality and our role in it and I’ve found the concept of dharma to be liberating to me in so many practical ways on a day to day basis.

Alessa – I like your point about unrealistic expectations and assumptions. I think of my dealing with the toxic members in my family via this filter. It was a hard one to parent myself thro as my inner child was always ready to give them unrealistic freedom into me. But I’m still making sense of this for myself. It would be lovely to know how others have found their way, or are finding their way, thro this. And yes, patience! That a really painful one for me too but tie as shown my repeatedly that nothing can be done with it. Patience and timing. Unsolved conflict always seems to lead to either anger or resentment for me, and in those cases resentment, for me, is just subsided anger where its righteous anger that did not get heard or acknowledged leaving me feeing unseen. There was only so much of being unseen that I could take if it was by people who were just unwilling to see me. No amount of patience, or approaching it from another angle can overcome that. Some people are simply not going to be willing to see me and my experience with them tells me that it is down to a power play because they have double standards in that they demand respect from me, or stonewall.

Also, how do you get the emojis to appear? The smile face is a colon and a bracket. What are the codes for the others?
Have a good day folks. 

Hi Alessa

My younger son would only stand up to pee too. I ended up placing his potty on a large, wipeable mat for obvious reasons 😉 I also let him pee outside in the garden by a tree we had so that he could pee standing and have some independence over it because, when he used the potty, I would be quick to wipe the mat clean and I guess me reminding him to aim inside the potty would have gotten annoying for him. I also stuck stickers that would reveal cartoon characters when they got wet to the bottom of his potty to encourage him to pee in it but didn’t consider that they would invite inquisitive hands in.

I’m sorry to learn that you are not doing well right now, that you are experiencing PTSD symptoms, and are stressed. Are you referring to the stress that is currently going on because of the now weeks long discord on these forums? If so, and with no disrespect to the gravity of what is going on here in the forums, but there is only so much we can do before we have to decide what is the best way forward for us in this present moment – not forever, or for this week or month even – just whatever is better for us in that moment.  You seem like a very caring and kind person. This is obviously your choice, but if you are finding the forum too much for you right now then you should take a break from it. No matter how bad things get here, if it is interfering with your physical health then I think you should put your own wellbeing and self care first. You have a young son who relies on you as his mother and I am sure you will have other responsibilities too ❤️

Hey Alessa

It sounds like your little boy is enjoying discovering and exploring his skills, like walking, making gestures towards others and discovering that these might lead to them responding, and communicating with you in a way he has come to learn that you understand. These are all great skills. Hearing him learning how to speak and use words must be wonderful. They say such cute things in these early years, mincing words up, making words up completely, and the mannerisms that tend to accompany the words over time – ahhhh, so cute! Hey, Im really sorry to hear that he had racism directed towards him. Racism is wrong full stop but directing it at an infant is on a whole other level!

Parenting is a journey of anxieties and uncertainty. I was never sure about anything with my first but now I see that I let my worry get in the way of just enjoying him for him while he was so small and experiencing his firsts. They’re only this tiny for such a small amount of time and while you’re in it, it may feel long but looking back, it passes so quickly. Enjoy it 🙂 I wouldnt give yourself a hard time for things like genetics and inherited traits altho I can empathise with feeling bad for for things that are outside of our control. Im going to go with it being a sign that we are conscientious. Plenty of parents are not like that. One way to stop the worry is to just go to the Drs if you feel there is really something not right but my experience was that both my boys behaved very differently to each other at equivalent ages and it was external pressure from family and friends with the own kids comparing milestones, routines, sleeping habits, feeding habits and quantities, food choices – and the list went on. There is no clear right and wrong answer for most things and I believe that what matters more is the quality of your and his relationship and the reliable and consistent ways in which you would respond to him.

Are you looking for potty training tips? I found potty training my first boy was easier than my second I think primarily because of the climate we were in at the time they were potty trained. My first boy I left without a nappy for huge parts on the day so when he started peeing I’d quickly lift him onto the potty and sit with him while he used it. And Id leave the potty wherever he was. With my second boy we were in Scotland which is seriously cold (in comparison) so he was raised with a nappy on. It was much harder.

Hi Alessa, Tee

Sorry to interrupt you here but I did not know how else to reach out to you. Over the past couple of months I have been reading the posts on these forums and gaining a lot of insights and validation from them. At this point in my healing journey I feel it has lifted me up a lot in those really low and anxious ridden moments. Over this time I have gleaned that the community here is quite tight, I’d say, compared to other forums, and I’ve found the discussions you share to be tremendously validating. Validating is the word – I am thirsty for it and here I found it in bag fulls. I have had similar experiences to what you speak on with narcissistic parents and have had to learn how to reparent myself. Then there is facing doubts with my parenting abilities and finding your voices here that echo similar things. This has been a lonely journey and one, altho I have transformed for the better thro it, feels so unfair in that I had to do it in the first place. Coming across this solidarity is like walking into a goldmine. That’s what I feel is here. It’s a treasure trove of heart-felt love and support and it’s given by absolute strangers with no strings attached. It has been my solace.

Recently I have seen how things have been upended and the discord and invalidation at play is so sad to see – thro what appears like no fault of your own. I feel sad that this community is losing your voice and energy. I wish I had gotten to know you. You will be missed. I didn’t want to add to further discord in the other thread but I wanted to let you know that you have shed light upon me too. I would love to stay in contact and learn from and share. My email is chewiron@gmail.com. Apologies for being so forward and coming out of the blue like this. I wish you all the very best in finding your path forward and your peace.

Greetings!

I hope I’m not intruding here. I was trying to hunt down the post you mentioned in your reply to me where you felt your childhood self was supported and, in doing that, I came across this. I think this is your own theread, is that right? The question you opened with caught my eye so I clicked and now here I am :o)

What is a life worth living like? I’ve had versions of that question echoing in my mind for decades, and ultimately, what you say it is is where I landed too. There is one addition that may be particular to me but in response to this question when I was my teenage self, I would have said that – a life worth living is one where I know that I am cared for and am noticed for me.

This specific memory comes up for me in response to a time where I was maybe 14 or 15 and we had guests at my house. I was in the kitchen and my mum was preparing dinner with all the other mums who were there helping. My friend was asked to hand my mum a dish out of the dishwasher that had just finnished its cycle and, as her hand made contact with the dish, she must have felt the heat against her skin and she recoiled her hand exclaiming “Ouch”. I was watching her and I found the whole situation interesting (I know… It is not at all interesting in reality. It was only interesting to me because it triggered that question in my head – what must it feel like to live a life worth living. I think to most teens this is the most boring of moments and it probably wouldnt register as anything at all. So, breaking it down, I thought several things:
I knew that dishes were not that hot so as to actually burn you but I could appreciate that the shock in touching something so hot may make someone startle hence her physical reaction.
I then thought how lovely it must be to think that your experience is worth verbalising – in reference to her saying “Ouch” – personally, I didnt make involuntary exclamaitions. I guess it had been ironed out of me. I knew that no one cared. In fact, I knew that to exclaim at all would be to reveal a vulnrability that would be used against me and at once be jumped upon and made fun of either in the now, or used against me later, or ignored entirely – which in its own way was worse because I was opening myself up to the possibility that I was not worth noticing.
So how nice it must be to think that your reactions and utterances mattered to the point that you made them probably at some involuntary level which you still had access to because you had not trained yourself out of it.

As Ive grown and healed I now see that first and foremost I should focus on being my own reason for why my life is worth living. I dont need the external validation to be worthy of it. However, there is still a part of me that does want some external feedback, acknowledgement, and validation. I think that is human nature and our brains are wired for a certain level of support – particularly in childhood – but I believe that this stays true to a certain extent thro out life. When we do find that others are willing to offer that to us, as far as I am concearned, those are the relationships that I want to nurture. They are the people I would call friends. Friends like that add a dimension to life that no amount of healing can bring. I can imagine this is on a spectrum and some need it less than others, but for those who do not need it at all, coming at this from my background in attachment styles, not being able to share vulnerabilities with others, let alone such trivial noes as the dishwasher incident, I would suspect is someone who has more of a dysfunctional attachment style. Looking at the question thro the lense of attachment styles is quite fascinating now that Im thinking about it!

Anyway, what a fascinating thread you have here! Im going to look into more of it.

Hi Anita,

You crossed my mind so I thought I’d reach out. How are you? I didn’t know of another way to get in touch as it appears that the only way to do so is in response to a thread and do it publiclly. I wanted to share with you that I have started a youtube channel and am trying to go into my reflections about life and healing there. I’ve only recently started it but am planning to go into shadow work amongst some other things at some point. You might find it interesting 😄 I certainly found your insights incredibly helpful. It’s called mercurialanarchy.

Maybe catch you there, Lucidity