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Peter

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  • #450750
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Tee

    Yes, it’s an area that occupies me, though still a work in progress. Wisdom traditions have long warned about mistaking activity for passivity and vice versa, but we seem deeply resistant to this insight. That resistance, I suspect, is a source of much of our suffering.

    Society holds a paradoxical view of change. We readily agree that change from the inside out is more lasting than change imposed from the outside in. Yet we undervalue the very process that makes that inner change possible. Why? My thought is because we mistake inner work (subjectivity) for passivity and external enforcement (objectivity) for action.

    We live in a culture that celebrates transformation, makeovers, breakthroughs, revolutions… a world that privileges what can be seen, counted, and proven. Action, in this frame, means movement.

    Inner work, by contrast, is subjective. It happens in silence, in solitude, in the messy terrain of thought and feeling. It lacks the markers of “doing something” that our culture recognizes: speed, noise, output. So we label it passive. We call reflection “navel-gazing,” restraint “weakness,” and emotional labor “soft.”

    As a result, we rush to fix, to act, to judge, to enforce, believing that movement equals progress and defense of our boundaries. But this bias blinds us to a deeper truth that inner work is often the most courageous, demanding, and transformative form of action.

    Tor Nørretranders, in The User Illusion, tells a story of physicists debating why the good guy in Westerns always wins the shootout. The answer? Because the bad guy acts while the good guy is present. Conscious, ego-driven action is about half a second slower than presence. The bad guy loses because he decides to act and moves first, while the good guy, fully present, was already active.

    Here, stillness is not inaction. t’s presence. It’s the fruit of inner work: knowing oneself, mastering fear, refusing to be baited by chaos. The gunslinger’s stillness looks passive but its not, it’s the most active force in the scene, shaping the outcome.

    My thought is that to truly understand action and passivity, we must integrate both objective and subjective perspectives. We must learn to see the invisible, to recognize that stillness can be strength and motion can be avoidance. In doing so, we confront our biases about what counts as passive and what counts as active. And perhaps then, we begin to discern how those biases have shaped the way we hope, what we expect from change, and where we place our trust.

    #450714
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Thomas

    Thanks for the kind words. It’s true you write candidly and with directness. I personally find it refreshing and would hate to lose your voice.

    #450709
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    I’d like to gently offer a “yes, and” on this statement: “For trauma survivors, the loss of self isn’t liberation—it’s fragmentation. Healing often requires reclaiming the self, not dissolving it.”

    Yes: this is deeply true and must be honored – And – Wholeness may eventually include a loosening of the rigid self, not as erasure but as expansion. The journey of reclaiming the self can coexist with the possibility of transcending it.

    Just as we must be careful not to use spiritual teachings to invalidate trauma or silence pain, we also need to be mindful not to silence the transformative insights that those traditions offer about the nature of self, liberation and wholeness.

    The Dharma does not rush this process. It does not say, You are not real. It says, You are not only this. It says, When you are ready, there is more. Wholeness as presence of everything connected, seen clearly, held wisely, loved deeply.

    #450695
    Peter
    Participant

    He all

    A student once asked Master Zhaozhou, “If the world is illusion, why does it hurt when I kick a rock?” Zhaozhou replied, “It is your perception that makes it real.”

    The student misunderstood the teaching. He believed that if the world is illusion, then the rock and his foot must not be real. But when he kicked the rock and broke his toe, the pain was undeniable. The rock did not vanish. The foot did not disappear. The toe did not unbreak.

    This is where we must be careful. Too often, teachings on illusion are used to silence pain, suggesting that suffering is a failure of insight. This is not the Dharma. This is misunderstanding dressed as wisdom.

    Zhaozhou’s words were not meant to dismiss the pain or deny the body. They were not a prescription for ignoring wounds. The student must tend to his toe. Healing is necessary. Compassion is necessary. The Dharma does not ask us to bypass suffering; it asks us to see through it. All things in their time.

    If we listen carefully, the teaching is not a weapon to invalidate trauma. It is not saying, “Your suffering is your fault. You should not be feeling what you’re feeling.” Instead, it offers a subtle invitation to be present.

    Once the wounds are tended, once safety and care are restored, there may come a moment when the illusion of “I” can be gently questioned. Not to erase the pain, but to loosen the grip of identity around it.

    But what does it mean to “see through” suffering?

    The illusion was not the rock, nor the foot, nor the pain. The illusion was the student’s perception filtered through the lens of separation, the sense of a distinct “I” who suffers, who resists, who clings to the idea that things should be other than they are.
    Here the ego might say: “The teaching are lies, I should not have kicked the rock; this pain is unfair” and oddly often at the same time, one wonders if only to increase the suffering a unskillful hope that “If only I were enlightened, this wouldn’t have hurt.”

    If only I… if only I…

    But when the illusion of “I” dissolves, what remains is simply this: A body moves. A foot kicks. A rock stays still. A toe breaks. Pain arises. Healing begins. No blame. No shame. No resistance. Just the unfolding of causes and conditions.

    The teaching asks us to be present. To see clearly. To respond wisely. And sometimes, that means saying: “This hurts. I need help. I will care for myself.”

    And yes, when the illusion of “I” dissolves… The body moves. The rock remains a rock. And the foot… The foot ‘knows’ not to kick the rock, not because it fears pain, but because it no longer acts from separation. It moves in harmony with the whole.

    It listens. It sees. It learns.

    To see through illusion is not to erase the wound, but to meet it without the story of separation. In that meeting, healing becomes not just possible, not just the closing of a wound, but whole.

    #450694
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Tee

    “I’ve got to say, Peter, that I notice a little sensitivity on your part when you talk about passivity”

    Not quite in the way you speculate: My comment on expanding on Bruce Lee quote was me talking to myself wondering how better to communicate what I see as a major stumbling block for integrating the teaching of the various wisdom traditions. Mistaking for action what is really passivity and vice versa.

    I’ve often wondered why wisdom traditions, for all their depth and beauty, don’t seem to catalyze the kind of societal transformation they point toward. I’ve witnessed individual awakening, but once form becomes institution, something seems to stall. The flow slows. The tenderness hardens. My thought is that mistake the notion of activity and passivity. Especially when it comes to Hope – we hope badly and my thought is because our Hope tends to be passive but we assume its active.

    Erick Fromm suggested that unskillful hope is a attempt to flee from choice, from responsibility, from the anxiety of being, and in our flight, we embrace submission, conformity, and destructiveness. In Escape from Freedom, he named such hope as fear masquerading as safety, the seduction of authoritarianism…

    Anyway something I’ve been working on.

    #450502
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Everyone

    Thanks Tee for pointing that out. Communication is hard, and you never quite know if what you think you’re saying is how it might be read.

    Perhaps if I had expanded on the Bruce Lee quote. I read it as pointing to the rhythm of both the outer and inner experience, the martial artist training so that their reactions are responses. I don’t think anyone would describe Bruce as passive, though I imagine he had a deep inner life.

    I always appreciate how you see your part of the ‘elephant’ Alessa and thanks for the kind words.

    Beautiful reflection Silvery Blue

    #450413
    Peter
    Participant

    LOL I wanted it to read as a ‘Yes and’ and see I wrote ‘But even then’… Sometimes, as you said, withdrawal is the wisest choice which even then, I think, can be done with compassion’

    #450412
    Peter
    Participant

    Thank you, Tee. I appreciate the way you’re engagement.

    I wouldn’t describe myself as someone with a rich inner life aimed at spending as much time there as possible. I’m not sure how that impression came about, and when I have time, I’ll revisit what I wrote to see where the gaps might be for that impression to arise.

    Your definition of passivity as the absence of necessary action is valid, especially from an external, outcome-oriented perspective. But I’m pointing toward something more interior. Stillness, in this sense, isn’t the absence of action it’s the presence of awareness within action. A kind of motion that doesn’t rush. A kind of strength that doesn’t shout.

    only when there is stillness in movement does the universal rhythm manifest.” – Bruse Lee – I’m seeking the rhythm.

    You’re right, this approach works best when there’s a willingness to listen. When someone is only interested in attacking or defending their corner of the elephant, it can feel not just futile, but harmful to stay engaged.

    That’s why Zafar doesn’t suggest staying in every conversation at all costs. He speaks too discernment, the wisdom to know when to step back, and the courage to do so without shame. “Not all silence is surrender,” he says. “Some silence is a candle lit for yourself.”

    Layla stood up for herself, which was brave. But she also felt unsettled afterward. Not because she spoke, but because she lost her center in the heat of the moment. Her journey isn’t about choosing between speaking or withdrawing, it’s about learning to respond from a place of stillness, even when the rhetoric flares. To be accountable for what is hers and release what isn’t, without defense or sense of righteousness. Without losing her center.

    Sometimes, as you said, withdrawal is the wisest choice. But even then, it can be done with compassion. To say, “This hurts.” To say, “I don’t know how to stay.” That kind of honesty is not weakness, it’s presence. And presence, even when it’s not returned, is still brave.

    I hear that distinction as a ‘yes and’ – hoping it doesn’t come across as a ‘yes but’ – does that resonate with you?

    Than I see we have landed on the same space – “Willingness to see the other, listen to their pain, listen to their needs. But also, respect our own pain and our own needs. Compassion and self-compassion. I think the two together is the winning combination.
    That was nicely said.

    #450392
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi everyone

    In a world that often asks us to choose between silence and shouting, I’ve come to wonder if there’s a third way, stillness in action. Not passive. Not aggressive. But present.

    I’m going to attempt to use the following Sufi and Zen stories to illustrate the third way ‘stillness in action’ I’ve been trying to communicate. Reframing the conflict within the tension of political discord I’ve been trying to engage and come to terms with. Next to explore this third way, I’ve imagined a conversation between Layla and Zafar, two voices navigating the fire of rhetoric and the longing for connection.

    This Sufi story, often attributed to Rumi, tells of people who enter a dark room where an elephant is kept. Each person touches a different part, the trunk, the leg, the ear… and describes the elephant based on their limited experience. One says it’s like a snake, another like a pillar, another like a fan…. “If each had a candle and came together, the differences would disappear.”

    Zen Koan: Is That So? This koan tells of a Zen master named Hakuin. A young woman in the village becomes pregnant and names Hakuin as the father. When confronted, he simply replies, “Is that so?” He accepts the child and cares for it. Later, the woman confesses the truth and the child is returned. Again, Hakuin says, “Is that so?”

    Reflection:
    There are days when I read a headline or hear a soundbite and feel my chest tighten. The words are sharp, the tone dismissive, the posture combative. My first impulse is to recoil, to label, to judge, to turn away…. It’s not just disagreement. It’s discomfort. And beneath that a deep sadness that we’ve forgotten how to speak to one another.

    Rumi’s story of the elephant in the dark comes to mind. Each person touches only a part, and each insists they know the whole. I’ve done this too. I’ve mistaken my corner of the elephant for the entire truth and expected everyone to see by its light and, sometimes, become righteous when they didn’t. ☹

    But the story doesn’t end in division. It ends with an invitation: If each had a candle and came together, the differences would disappear. Here coming together doesn’t mean agreement. It means presence. It means staying in the room when it’s easier to leave. It means asking, what part of the elephant have you touched? and meaning it.

    Zen offers another image. Hakuin, falsely accused and called a disgrace, Hakuin says ‘Is that so?’ Then later when the world called him a saint, he says ‘Is that so?’ Hakuin responds not with outrage but with spaciousness. His peace was not tied to what others said about him. The rhetoric can shift and change, but if your calm or sense of self is not dependent on praise or condemnation, you are free.

    I used to read this as unhealthy detachment. Now in the second half of life, I see it as a kind of quiet courage. To remain present without needing to be right. To hold discomfort without turning it into defense.

    It’s true that such detachment can become a shield, escape or even indifference if not careful… however, a deeper part of me calls out that that engagement doesn’t mean abandoning stillness. It means letting the stillness hold others too.

    In a polarized world, dialogue is not a luxury. It’s a lifeline. And, I think it begins not with cleverness, but with compassion. Not with argument, but with attention. Compassion that makes it safe, even when its not returned, and the choice to stay engaged, to keep the candle lit, makes it brave.

    Layla – Zafar Dialogue
    Walking home from a family gathering, Layla replays a tense exchange with an in-law who always seems to know how to provoke her. She’s proud that she stood her ground, but the conversation left a bitter taste. The words linger. She’s frustrated not just by the conflict, but by how easily she became reactive and defensive, how quickly she let someone else’s tone shape her own. She wonders why it’s so hard to stay centered when the heat rises.

    As these thoughts swirl, she notices Zafar sitting quietly beneath a tree, as if waiting for the moment to arrive.

    Layla: I don’t know how to do this anymore, Zafar. Every time I try to speak, it feels like I’m walking into fire. They twist my words, mock my tone, and I’m left wondering why I even tried.

    Zafar: You tried because something in you still believes that words can be bridges, not weapons. But belief doesn’t mean blindness. It’s okay to feel burned. It’s okay to step back.

    Layla: But stepping back feels like giving up. Like I’m letting the loudest voices win.

    Zafar: Not all silence is surrender. Some silence is a candle lit for yourself. A way to see your own wound before you try to see theirs.

    Layla: I want to believe that. But the space between reaction and response is so small. Sometimes I don’t even notice I’ve crossed it until I’m already defending, already hurting.

    Zafar: That space between reaction and response can be sacred even if barely there. A chance to notice before the fire catches. A chance to name it, and in naming, you begin to reclaim the space. Not perfectly. Not always. But gently.

    Layla: So what do I do when the rhetoric comes again? When the words are sharp and the posture is rigid?

    Zafar: You remember the elephant in the dark. You remember that they’ve touched only a part. And so have you. You ask, not to win, but to understand. And if they won’t meet you there, you still keep your candle lit.

    Layla: Even if I’m the only one holding it?

    Zafar: Especially then. Because one candle can remind the room that light is still possible.

    Layla’s Journal
    Zafar’s words are still with me. He didn’t tell me to be stronger. He didn’t ask me to forgive or forget. He simply reminded me that the space I long for, between reaction and response, might begin with noticing.

    I’ve always thought I had to be ready before I spoke. Clear. Composed. Unshakable. But maybe readiness isn’t the point. Maybe it’s enough to be honest. To say, “This hurts.” To say, “I don’t know how to stay.”

    And maybe the candle I hold isn’t for lighting the whole room. Maybe it’s just enough to see my own hands. To remember that I’m still here. Still willing. Still listening.

    I don’t know what I’ll do next time the rhetoric flares. But I know I’ll try to pause. To breathe. To ask, “What part of the elephant have you touched?” And to mean it.

    There’s a kind of stillness I’m learning to trust, not the stillness of silence or withdrawal, but the stillness that moves with me. That walks into the fire without needing to fight. That listens even when the words sting. That stays, not because it’s easy, but because something deeper is holding me steady.

    Maybe that’s what Zafar meant. That stillness isn’t the absence of motion. It’s the presence within it. A rhythm beneath the noise. A candle that doesn’t flicker, even when the wind rises.

    #450390
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Silvery Blue – Thanks for the kind words

    Hi Tee

    Would those around me call me passive?

    No… perhaps… Has my my engagement in this dialogue been passive? What does passivity mean to you?

    I’ve experienced movement in stillness, and stillness in movement. What then is action… What is passive?
    Bruce Lee once said, “The stillness in stillness is not the real stillness; only when there is stillness in movement
    does the universal rhythm manifest.

    In this stillness, To let go is not to withdraw. It is to listen more deeply, to respond without grasping, to be present without needing to be seen.

    If passivity means absence, then no, I am not passive. But if it means stillness, then perhaps… and I’m learning to welcome it.

    #450267
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Tee

    Sorry my last reply was a bit rushed. I really do appreciate you acknowledging that you might have been projecting. As we talked about before I think we all do it, often without realizing. What matters is the willingness to see it and speak it.

    As for your other question: yes, I do think the passage of time has shifted my focus inward. The outer pursuits still have their place, but they no longer feel like the center of gravity. The second half of life, for me, seems to be about letting go but in a way that makes space for something deeper to emerge. I don’t experience that as passive but can understand how it might seem that way from the outside looking in.

    I’ve really appreciated this exchange. It’s given me much to reflect on. Thanks for the thoughtful conversation.

    #450265
    Peter
    Participant

    I agree Tee, both must be addressed. Speaking for myself I’m finding it interesting that I find myself leaning in to inner experience and even further, non-duality as I move further into the second half of life. And how that influences and gets in the way when I try to engage in dialog with others.

    Do you mean that you “struggle” internally, feeling the discomfort, feeling the pain of let’s say someone misunderstanding you, or someone accusing you of something you haven’t done? And then once you process those “negative” feelings (anger, hurt, sadness), you come to a place of clarity, from which you then respond?

    Yes I think that reflects what I meant. I think its a good practice during the engagement with the conflict and after, particularly if the outcome wasn’t as one might have hoped.

    #450258
    Peter
    Participant

    I Tee

    I think I can name the ‘loop’ I’ve sensed in the pattern of our dialogue – ‘Yet But’.
    You tend to lean into the outer, objective experience of conflict – what was said, what needs to be addressed. While I tend to lean into the inner, subjective experience – what was felt, what shifted, what resisted. Both of us I think caught in the loop of – ‘yes but’ the outer experience…. ‘yes but’ inner experience…

    Of course both experience are real, and both are happening together. But communicating across that difference isn’t easy. It’s like we’re each holding a different part of the elephant, trying to describe the whole.

    Anyway thanks for the engagement and holding the space. I apologize if I projected my own insecurities around communication.

    #450234
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi everyone

    Just finished a novel called The Measure by Nikki Erlick

    Today, when you open your front door, waiting for you is a small wooden box. The contents of this mysterious box tells you the exact number of years you will live… As society comes together and pulls apart, everyone faces the same shocking choice: Do they wish to know how long they’ll live? And, if so, what will they do with that knowledge?

    Those might be considered deep philosophical questions… I guess they are but the book was uplifting about “family, friendship, hope, and destiny that encourages us to live life to the fullest.”

    A answerer to the questions a clasic-

    “Que Sera, Sera”
    When I was just a little girl I asked my mother, “What will I be?
    Will I be pretty? Will I be rich?” Here’s what she said to me

    Que sera, sera Whatever will be, will be The future’s not ours to see Que sera, sera
    What will be, will be

    Since I am just a boy at school I asked my teacher, “What should I try?
    Should I paint pictures? Should I sing songs?” This was her wise reply

    Que sera, sera Whatever will be, will be The future’s not ours to see Que sera, sera
    What will be, will be

    When I grew up and fell in love I asked my lover, “What lies ahead?
    Will we have rainbows day after day?” Guess what my lover said

    Que sera, sera Whatever will be, will be The future’s not ours to see Que sera, sera
    What will be, will be

    Now I have children of my own They ask their mother, “What will I be?
    Will I be pretty? Will I be rich?” I tell them, “Wait and see.”

    Que sera, sera Whatever will be, will be The future’s not ours to see Que sera, sera
    What will be, will be

    #450229
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi James

    Love it. I’m not sure though how to express the warning in the initial post with also not falling in it?
    A limitation of language perhaps.

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