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May 2, 2025 at 10:24 am #445321
Peter
ParticipantHi Anita
That is a lot 🙂 The following is my response to what you wrote in Inspirational Words – which I think address some of what your noted above.
After I posted my last I thought I ought to delete it as I wasn’t sure what I was trying to communicate and what I did communicate I did badly.
To clarify the overanalyzing trap, I tend to trip over was related to self doubt about my experiences which included what I learned when I engaged with shadow work. Of course, its possible that there is a resistance to emotions, one of the reasons I decided to explore the doubt. Noting a felt pressure of expectations on how healing should look and that I was “doing it wrong”. Even knowing there are many ways as there are people. (this pressure of doubt something I put on myself)
(I notice I tend to mix-up the notion of emotion and feeling.)
My understanding of the difference between Emotions and Feelings is that emotions are the underlying reaction, while feelings are the conscious understanding and experience of that reaction. Once emotion become conscious feeling my experience is that this is when they start becoming entangled with thought, constructs and states of mind. Shadow work and stillness helping in the untangling.To be candid the experience of the last few weeks of re-processing past events and emotions began to feel masochistic, especially as I was aware that I wasn’t re-processing a past event but a memory of the past in the present now.
Emotions did arise and were felt tending to a re-mourning of what wasn’t and futures that will never be. The feelings of the past event remained unchanged as were the boundaries that resulted which I continue to view as healthy ones.
I noticed a part of me took a kind of pleasure in making myself feel bad, or that it must as I am very good at it.
I noticed the role the mind was playing. To often the unreliable narrator, one trapped within the realm of measurement and self created constructs. The unreliable narrator creating shadow and distortions.
There was a realization that Emotions as Thich Nhat Hanh noted do indeed come and go like clouds on a windy day. Perhaps its my Type 5 personally but for me once emotions are felt and honored its a gift that the wind sets them on their way. I acknowledge this experience of emotion has caused issues with personal relationships. I noticed that if there was choice in choosing a personally type I would not choose the type 5, Type 5 can come across as cold and stingy with emotion even as we feel and love deeply if differently from expectations of the general temporal notion of love. It is not surprising that type 5 more then the other types find themselves alone. Loneliness being The emotion I resist most, a suspicion or fear that once fully felt there may be no way out. I need to be attentive to the feeling of loneliness and how it influences the state of mind.
Its interesting the push back I get when suggesting there is a time for self-reflection and processing of emotions/feelings of an event to end. That one can take what one learned and move on especially as we move into the last quarter of life. Here I wonder if growth is mistaken as the act of seeking and constant movement, the act of looking equated with learning, where what one sees doesn’t matter as much as the task of looking? I wonder at the role of a past addiction to the notion of self-improvement has played.
I’ve noticed similar pushback as my religions experience started leaning into the teachings of the mistics. A move from the head to the heart. I noted in other posts that I was taught, perhaps unintentionally, that following and obeying was the path to love and an exercise of compassion. An implied reward punishment theology that was not allowed to be seen as a reward punishment theology as we were ‘saved’ by grace. (this has taken a great deal of work to untangle so I feel not need to re-examine/live it.)
I discovered that though an experience of ‘knowing’ everyone and everything connected that compassion arose naturally as the defining emotional feeling reaction. From that experience of compassion, one does not need a commandment not to kill or honor one’s parents as the experience of connection naturally flows and honoring all.
I was told that such thinking was dangerous. Surprising as someone who lives in the head, I didn’t view this realization as a thinking but a Being encounter. Perhaps that is dangerous.
What was my point? I notice that when I engage with self examination starting by reconnecting to the experience of compassion the past constructs fade, not dismissed but seen for what they are, and I feel no need to reprocess them. I feel I need to embrace that realization and no longer doubt it.
To the question if I’m choosing that as a path to avoid dealing with my emotions? I don’t think or feel that i am, however, I don’t think its a question my personality type can answer.
My thought for the second half of life is similar to yours, do no harm, help where I can with the added avoid becoming a grumpy old man. To realize the latter I need to move into heart and loosen the grip of analytical mind set. Saying that I know the above will seem to be mostly head, a artifact of my type, and you don’t get to change type. For me though its heart.
May 1, 2025 at 9:53 am #445291Peter
ParticipantHi Everyone
I’ve been silent over the last few weeks as I struggled with doubt about the work I had done and experiences I’ve had with the relationship of the temporal (duality) and the eternal (non duality). Of being connected to the web of life. I fell into analyses paralysis-depression of my Type 5 personality, doubting if I ever understood what it meant to process the past and or emotions.Alessa asked if I learned how to manage emotions and my first thought was, yes, realized that managing emotions is not necessarily having a good relationship with them. Emotions, Feelings, states of mind, thoughts, memory everything gets so tangled to the over analyzing mind.
In the rising and return of every breath I lost connection with the return. Metaphorically I have a tendency of holding my breath.
Something W.H. Auden surfaced: “We would rather be ruined than changed. We would rather die in our dread than climb the cross of the moment, and let our illusions die.”
Then Alan Watts words about fear: “The instant we become motivated by fear, we become unfree. So long as the mind believes in the possibility of escape from what it is at this moment, there can be no freedom. When you are freed from being out to improve yourself, your own nature will begin to take over.”
Begging the questions: Is improvement a type of resistance? Do I, can I, trust life’s flow?
Why do I resist owning the realizations the processing of emotions and events has taught me? Am I afraid to ‘know’ and make mine what I experienced as healing? Has my identity been linked to being broken?Fear one emotion that I have a solid relationship with, a prison of my making refusing to notice that the doors and windows have always been open.
Krishnamurti encouraged individuals to examine their thoughts, feelings, and motivations to understand how their minds function and what drives their behavior. I didn’t notice before, but the intent is understanding on how the mind functions and noticing how that drives behavior. The mind not the experience being processed driving behavior. I feel that this is an important difference as I notice my minds tendency to create the problems it is at the same time trying to solve.
Last night as I lay awake with thoughts coming I gave up I picked up the book The Dispossessed by Ursula Guin.
“He would always be one for whom the return was as important as the voyage out… that indeed the very nature of the voyage, like a circumnavigation of the globe implied return. You shall not go down twice to the same river, nor can you go home again. That he Knew; indeed, it was the basis of his view of the world. Yet from that acceptance of transience he evolved his vast theory, wherein what is most changeable is shown to be fullest of eternity, and your relationship to the river, and the river’s relationship to you and to itself, turns out to be at once more complex and more reassuring than a mere lack of identity. You can go home again, so long as you understand that home is a place where you have never been.” (Something for the heart as the mind trips all over itself – longing to return, knowing he can’t, but can as he never been – ‘knowing that as a truth.)At the end of our exploration, we return home and see it for the fist time… a Truth – the possibility of every breath.
I suspect I’ve confused anyone attempting to follow as it relates to the Sun rising and return contemplation. For me it supports my feeling that in my fourth quarter of life that the time of self improvement as a intention/goal has passed and time to trust the realizations and truths of the relationship of the temporal and eternal I have experienced. I know this goes against most self-help advice but for me its something I intent not to question again. Their is a time for all things, including the time to let go of the notion of fixing and engage life as it is.
April 19, 2025 at 3:33 pm #444991Peter
ParticipantHi Alessa
Seems I’m in good company as I also will reach for a book when feeling sad.
I don’t recall my parents sharing thier feelings with me… Sounds to me that your instincts are pretty good.That’s the thing with instincts you don’t get to know you have them until they show up. Knowing when you don’t know what you don’t know is good instinct, if a uncomfortable one.
April 18, 2025 at 7:40 am #444970Peter
ParticipantHi Anita
“What if sadness is necessary for true kindness?- then I am truly very kind.”
That made me laugh, I had a similar thought. Alas though it is necessary to a path of kindness its not a guarantee that the path will be taken. 10 points to me for using the word Alas 🙂
I like the idea of Love as a powerful force that can be cultivated and experienced, rather than just a feeling, and fitting for a Easter contemplation.
April 17, 2025 at 12:22 pm #444949Peter
ParticipantHi Everyone
Wanted to wish everyone a happy long weekend. May this Easter season be a time for reflection on the beauty of new beginnings, and the enduring cycle of life, death, and rebirth, reminding us that after darkness, new life emerges.
Even the darkens of sadness can create light.
“Without the ability to feel sad, a person could not be kind or thoughtful, because you wouldn’t care or know how anybody else feels. Without sadness, you would never learn anything from history. Sadness is the key to loving what you love and to becoming better than you were. A person who never felt sad would be a monster.” ― Richard Powers – PlaygroundI was playing around with AI and thought is parsing of the Krishnamurti quote prviously talked about could be helpful in find our way to the real question.
“To live without time is really to have this sense of great love, because love is not of time, love is not something that was or will be; to explore this and live with it is the real question.” – Krishnamurti
The statement suggesting that a profound sense of love, unbound by the linear passage of time, can be achieved when living without a sense of time’s constraints. This love is not something that existed in the past or will exist in the future, but rather a timeless, present moment experience. The core question, then, is how to explore and fully embrace this concept of love that transcends time.
Explanation:
• Love and Time:
The speaker posits that Love is not confined to the temporal dimensions of “was” or “will be”. It’s a state of being that exists in the present moment, independent of past experiences or future projections.• Living Without Time:
The phrase “to live without time” suggests a detachment from the linear progression of moments and a focus on the present, allowing for a more intense experience of love.• The Real Question:
The final phrase highlights that the true challenge lies in understanding and fully inhabiting this timeless state of love. It’s not just about acknowledging the concept, but about actively exploring its implications for one’s life and relationships.• Love as a Force:
The statement subtly implies that this timeless love is a powerful force that can be cultivated and experienced, rather than just a feeling.In essence, the speaker is proposing a shift in perspective. Instead of viewing love through the lens of time (measurement), they encourage the exploration of a love that is eternal and present, inviting the listener to actively embrace this timeless experience.
What If?
April 8, 2025 at 1:42 pm #444725Peter
ParticipantHi Anita – everyone
That was nicely summarized.
Last night I watched a BBC interview of Ken Burns who creates documentaries about history. History and storytelling were obviously his passion. I watched as he connected with the interviewer and audience. His spoke in a slow calm manor, his breath even. He talked about his passion for history and its power to break a heart open.
At the end of the interview both Ken, the interviewer and I had tears welling in the corner of our eyes. It seemed to me Ken Burns was speaking from his Truth, a still point of compassion that his passion for History had opened in him. I find that I’m seeing this light more often as I learn to look.
“Some people, like myself, rely on analysis as a way to process emotions”
That has been my method for most of my life and have come to the conclusion that emotions are to be felt in the moment and the situation from which they arose analyzed. The emotion information to the happening. In hindsight when I analyze emotion as a way to process them I was really questioning if I had a right to feel what I felt. Questioning if the emotions were real and if they weren’t was what happened? A process that creates the secondary emotions. The thoughts of the emotions creating emotions. Feeling bad about feeling bad. Then if after all that I had a realization to a deeper Truth I failed to live it as my truth.
If both the experience and thoughts can produce emotion responses how do we know if were processing the emotion of the experience or the emotions arising from the thoughts of the experience?. Is this a way for the ego to avoid and pretend it is controlling life?
The wisdom traditions suggest that analyzing of emotion is like a attempt to grasp air with your hands.
“Feelings come and go like clouds in a windy sky” – Thich Nhat HanhI feel that to be a Truth
April 7, 2025 at 2:10 pm #444692Peter
ParticipantHi Anita – everyone
I was concerned that we were getting lost in a attempt to define experience as definitions. A habit of mine.
“What happened to that moment?”- the moment, the realization is still with me. I definitely want it to last. (I think you’d say that I shouldn’t aim at making it last, but instead surrender to it..?)
The experience of feeling will fade and is meant to flow. Surrendering to the realization on the other hand is a way of taking in the realization as happening that is yours, always. My thought is that such realizations can be the lenses and light though which we then engage memory and life?
I’m going to try to share an experience and ask that the words be held lightly.
Out in the nature, one of those days where is warm but not hot, cool but not cold. A breeze rustling the leaves of a tree that looks older than time. Life scurrying up and down, in and around most of which is unseen, the sun light filters through. A moment of arrest. A realizing of the web of life, nature interconnected, life, death, wonder, sorrow…. The Heart breaks… Open… and ‘sees’ as if for the first time. ‘Arrested’ the question of time wasn’t relevant, so no need for language to define it. What arose with a tear was Compassion for all things and myself.
Walking home, lost in thought, thought become a something to grasp with each defining measure the experience gains weight, which I imagine as comfort. It is a comfort for a time. Someone on a bike passes me by almost hitting me. Irritation arises. Funny my experience of connection with nature, did it include humans, as if humans, as if i am, separate from nature…
By the time I get home I have begone to doubt the experience as real. Later when I share the experience with others, they confirm the experience as being a ‘only’. ‘Only’ a imagining, only a dream, not really ‘real’ and so relevant to ‘real’ life. The weight added to the experience now heavy no longer comforting, I went on seeking.
One of my literary hero’s is Richard Wagamese. Richard had a difficult beginning to life that lead to alcoholism. In his book – For Joshua: An Ojibway Father Teaches His Son – he tells his story. A story where amazing teachers showed up followed by amazing experiences and “awakening” that would change his life for a time but not last as he fell back into old habits. Until… here his words turn to poetry and meditations.
I asked myself what changed and glimpsed that his realizations transformed to Truths to live out from. The connection he felt for all things and all peoples became his Truth. A truth from which Compassion, let us call it Love that transcends language, naturally arose as the source of all things of all peoples. The light in him seeing and acknowledging the light in all. That Truth more real than the truths of his past. He chose to as best he could live what he realized.
From what I read, Richard past remained as it was only it no longer defined his being (detachment). His people continued to suffer as all people do and he continued to suffered with them. His relationship with his son remained strained, his son needing to work though his own healings. I hope now that his father has passed that the book helps.
Richard knowing deeply of the tears in things lived the remainder of his life, engaged with his now “knowing’s” as his ‘still point’. A circle without circumference which center is everywhere. The center compassion, let us call it Love from which all things arise and return.
My experiences in nature and meditation are more real to me than things I try to ‘understand’. I wonder if maybe I should try living from that ‘still point’.
Opening the book Embers by Richard Wagamese:
“I Walk with the scars of a lifetime of living. Some were self-inflicted wounds. Some were caused by others. Either way, they mark the trajectory of six decades of experience with the ins and outs, ups and downs, doubt and certainties of my relationship with living. They mark the territory of my being. I don’t regret a single one of them now. In fact, I’m thankful for them. My scars have the strange abitly to remind me that my past was real, and what is real offers knowledge, understanding and an ultimate forgiveness.”
“There is sunlight in the mountains today. The morning is crisp and clear as untrammeled thought. Against the sky, the trees raise crooked fingers in praise. To be here is to be affected, made more. Filled. The creative energy of the universe.
Drink it in, my friends…” – Richard Wagamese – EmbersApril 4, 2025 at 3:05 pm #444649Peter
ParticipantHI Anita
I suspect we have fallen into a trap of language 🙂You noted that stillness before analysis is preferable to using analysis as a means to stillness. That makes sense—yet, for me, understanding often brings stillness. Perhaps this is why I struggle with your ability to be still and let things happen naturally.
You over estimate my ability – the space of stillness – what is the space between the arising breath and it return?
My notion of stillness is based on the Centering prayer. Really its about taking a breath, creating space before and when analyses has ‘gone off the rails’.You likened transcendence to dance, where leading and following merge—implying that the sequence doesn’t matter, only the experience itself. Perhaps that’s why I only feel comfortable in free-style dance, where I neither lead nor follow another person.
Dance as a metaphor even free style is a lead follow, follow lead. Mind, body, spirit, music… which is the lead which is the follow? Its all connected. Dance is an excellent practice for working on the self and my experience is that most studios are a safe place to do so. It’s an oddity but dance attracts introverts and with similar fears you note.
Yet, my trauma is still heavy, even after all these years. I can carry it better because I am stronger, but I don’t want to view it as weightless. That would feel dismissive of its reality, almost like a form of denial.
I can relate to that experience.
For me it was similar to a feeling that forgiveness was saying what happened was ok and I might question if this a holding on was to punish ourselves, the ones who hurt us, to not forget? Dealing with unhealthy boundaries, but not healing?Looking forward to the Eternal where there is no trauma feels—dare I say—similar to the idea of Heaven.
The word Heaven has a lot of baggage. For most it suggests a place, something to achieve at the end of life and ‘look forward to’ a something that exists ‘up’ there… vice an inner experience available in the Now. “the kingdom of ‘heaven’ is within you”
Try holding the metaphor/word Eternal more lightly. Not a something to grasp and hold. A space without measurement. (notice when you without measuring though fade, and as thoughts fade so do emotions.) For me, the metaphor ‘Eternal’ is a contemplation, a breath.
When you think of the present moment do you imagine a space of time between this point and that point? Try imaging the present now as not as a measurement but all points. A Circle without circumference. The Circle from which all things arise and return.
Our suffering exists in our bones, our muscles, our neurons….
Maybe where born with it? The wisdom traditions point to our thoughts/mind as the source of suffering. Krishnamurti suggests that when we experience a emotion and feel it and leave it at that. Only we don’t, we attach thoughts: words, measurements, expectations, analyses… and suffer. (we may even enjoy this suffering in some way). This may be where the notion of awareness comes in, to understand this prosses with out judgment/measurement.
I do believe in the Eternal, but I question whether it is about Love.
The word love has a lot of baggage. In the realm of measurement the word love has come to mean little and everything. What we call love entangled with pleasure, possession, measurement… I doubt is love at all.
And strangely, as I am now thinking of befriending fear and shame, I have no desire to analyze them further.
What happened in that moment? What happened to that moment? What if you lived what you realized?
April 3, 2025 at 2:17 pm #444615Peter
ParticipantJust saw your poem – beautiful, sad.
And the time has come for me to pay for yesterday – When I was young.
“Creation is eternal birth. A beginning without end. It happens in every instant of time. The same power which burns in the stars burns equally in us. Our being is a miracle equal with the creation of the Universe, each day is created anew.” —Terence Malick.
Yesterdays make no demands
April 3, 2025 at 2:09 pm #444613Peter
ParticipantHi Anita
Thanks for the response. I feel a need to clarify – A need probably linked to some past trauma. At least I’m aware. I know its not necessary but I do enjoy analyses 🙂 kind of masochistic.You acknowledge that despite changing the order of his practices—meditation, contemplation, prayer, dance, art— you were still engaging in method-based healing, rather than allowing life to unfold naturally. You contrast two approaches:
The intent wasn’t to contrast two approaches but a unification of a change in order – even though I fall into old habits and temptations. Silence/stillness before analyses vice trying to use analyses as away to stillness.
If I fully embrace my emotions without resistance, I can stop being defined by my suffering, allowing transcendence into peace. In essence, acceptance clears the path for transcendence, while rejection creates internal barriers. I wonder if your transcendence, Peter, is involved with fully embracing your emotions with no resistance?
I am uncomfortable with the wording of ‘your transcendence’. That has a progressive feel, or something set as a goal to be achieved. I need to hold the word lightly…. My sense is that transcendence is a happening vice a doing or willing or achieving.
I’m not sure it matters what comes first, in dance the Lead is follow and follow lead. Does it matter?You acknowledge that you still fall into analysis, then remember, then forgets again—implying transcendence isn’t a permanent state.
Transcendence as a state implies a something that can be possessed. I would say transcendence transcends the realm of time, measurement, and language and leave it at that.
you see the Eternal as offering immediate relief from suffering—not because trauma doesn’t exist, but because in the Eternal, trauma no longer holds weight or control over the self. Identifying too much with suffering keeps it alive, whereas stepping into an awareness beyond time allows suffering to dissolve naturally. — rather than processing suffering as something to be worked through, you view detachment from the entire concept of suffering as a way to transcend it.
In stillness and silence there is nothing to cling to so yes, no suffering. Perhaps the experience happens at the moment of freefall, weightlessness when the arising transitions to the return and return to the arising of a breath?
To clarify I’m not attempting to address the trauma in the ‘Eternal’ realm that can only be addressed in the temporal. The experience of the Eternal, of being Love, and the composition that arises… provides a kind of foundation to examine the trauma. The memory of the trauma viewed through the memory of the experience of the “weightlessness”
You suggest that this realization shifted how you engage with past memories—seeing them as just past, rather than something that needs direct fixing.
Not found of the word ‘just’ but yes, the realization has shifted how I engage with the life – Life being motion, time, measurement, duality…. Life a playground that calls out to be felt and known.
I have not been particularly good at communicating. I am not dismissing the past or viewing it as only. I am not pretending not to feel what I feel. The notion of fixing has been problematic for me. I don’t always get to healing, but dealing, hopefully with healthy boundaries, is a step forward. Its not a permanent temporal state… question to self – is that what I’ve been trying to do, find a permeant state? – that won’t work life is motion
The habit of analyses is difficult to break but I’m “going to put down the bag of chips now”. Progress! I don’t see a need to identify with that habit, it just is, and enough to be aware.
Is it that I was stuck analyzing shame and fear in efforts to chase them away via understanding that kept them hanging on tight, while trying to understand them with an attitude of befriending them would have made all the difference? In other words, it’s not the analysis itself that kept them strong within me, but my efforts to divorce myself from them through analysis that kept them powerful within me?
I have know that game! With the same results.
As I have gotten older sadly it now only takes few chips to make me feel sick and with that the interval between craving for chips decreases. At the grocery store when I pick up a bag the memory of a future sick feeling arises, and most time I put the bag down. 🙂
LOL I see I used the word sadly. I so liked my salty snacks, I miss them, but they don’t like me.
April 3, 2025 at 11:00 am #444607Peter
Participant“I used to believe that prayer changes things, but now I know that prayer changes us, and we change things” – Mother Teresa
“Prayer is sitting in the silence until it silences us, choosing gratitude until we are grateful, and praising G_d until we ourselves are an act of praise.” – Richard Rohr
“You cannot have youth and the knowledge of it at the same time;
For youth is too busy living to know, and knowledge is too busy seeking itself to live.
You may sit at your window watching the passersby.
And watching you may see a nun walking toward your right hand, and a prostitute toward your left hand.
And you may say in your innocence, “How noble is the one and how ignoble is the other.”
But should you close your eyes and listen awhile you would hear a voice whispering in the ether,
“One seeks me in prayer, and the other in pain. And in the spirit of each there is a bower for my spirit.” GibranApril 3, 2025 at 9:49 am #444601Peter
ParticipantGoing over what I wrote I see that I fell into the trap of talking to much about method as a path. Method fascinates me but too distraction. Put another way I fell into my temptation.
I ought to have just pointed to the TAO – “Tao: The Pathless Path” “pathless” as it is not about fixed rules…. Rather, its a state of being of the natural flow of life.
Reading over what I wrote I noticed I was still engaging in the same methods just a different order. Mediation, contemplation, prayer, yoga, dance, art… then addressing any specific past happening/trauma, feeling the feelings…. Vice allowing a memory of an trauma to take my attention, working to address it, usually mind trying to understand mind, and then trying to find a balanced state of being.
(I still fall into the trap of the latter, then I remember, then I forget… Analyses is like continuing to eat chips when you know you have enough and that continuing will leave you feeling sick yet you still don’t stop, and you end up feeling sick.)Also noticed I might have answered the questions with a simple meditation/contemplation.
Movement is time, stillness eternity.
Movement creates life, Stillness Love,
To be still Yet still moving – That is everything!
– after Do Hyun ChoeSitting in that meditation and contemplation has changed how I engaged with past memory (all memory is past).
Its not my intention to ‘sell’ that experience as ‘The’ or even ‘A’ Way to do things.April 2, 2025 at 2:45 pm #444592Peter
ParticipantPart Two
If trauma is “not real” in the ultimate sense, does that mean the suffering attached to it doesn’t warrant full emotional acknowledgment before moving on?
The mistics experience and wisdom traditions do point to a notion of immediate enlightenment. I can only refer to my own experience of contemplation. Sorry I am going to use the sun contemplation again.
I observe my breath rising and returning and contemplate the sun rising in the morning and setting in the evening and how that measures out our day. An experience of time as a river where one moment flows into the next, into the next… each moment appearing as separate. This is the realm of maya were motion and language (measurement, judgment, attachments, duality) create our experience of life. In this realm we suffer, life is suffering. Everything experienced in the realm of maya is real and calling out to be felt and addressed.
Observing my breath rising and returning I select a moment from the river of time. In this moment I notice that somewhere the sun is both rising and somewhere setting. This is an experience of the past, present and future merging. A moment where every happenings I can imagine taking place at the same time. Here someone being born, there someone dying… someone’s first kiss, someone’s first slap, someone typing on a computer, someone reading… differences fade, we are all connected, we all suffer. Compassion rises.
Observing my breath rising and returning the moment of infinite happenings becomes the earth spinning and traveling though space. I notice the Truth that the sun neither rises nor sets but is and I am, we are that. This is an experience of interconnectedness where nothing is sperate, the All is one. This is the source from which my breath, all breath arise and return.
Observing my breath rising and returning – motion arising from and retuning to stillness, I am, we are stillness. Language arising and returning to silence, I am, we are silence. Time arising from and returning to the Eternal, I am, we are Eternal.
Motion, language time creating Life. Life arising from and returning to Love… Life arises from and returns to Love.
Awakening the mountain once again a mountain, life remains life, relationships need tending, emotions need feeling only… the desire to posses, to seek, to fix, to become has changed. What has changed… an awareness that to possess, to seek, to fix to become create conflict, suffering but no need to attach, no need to identify with suffering. The realm of maya is the playground for life and we all called to play.
Love and Compassion naturally arise. Nothing had to be fixed, addressed, processed… noting had to be done for this Love and Compassion to arise. It always was and I am, we are, That. From this arsing will still address traumas, process, feel, wonder, maybe even try to fix. Only now when I peer into past traumas, they no longer have the same wight, the same hold, still very real, only… well yes the possibility to dismiss.
Does trauma exists in love/eternal? No. The experience of the Eternal is silent and still, duality/language does not exist in this realm of experience. Eternal Love has no opposites. Love is and we are that. It is in the motion and naming of the arising that creates a experience of life, duality and the infinite happenings, the wonders, and its sufferings. Life as it IS.
The experience of maya is real and more imminent grabbing our attention while the experience of the Eternal is real but still… Neither path cancers the other.
In dancing I learned that when we were really in the dance the Lead was also a Follow and Follow also a lead. The question or real and path fade away.
April 2, 2025 at 2:36 pm #444591Peter
ParticipantHi Anita
In 2016 I would say I headed out into the woods gathering information, words in a hope to understand and understand arrive as some imagined something. Information isn’t knowing and not surprisingly I got got stuck. In hind sight I would say I was dealing but not healing. The two years ago I asked a different question. What if I actually believed in the things I learned were Truths?
I am going to attempt to answer your other questions but not knowing what the answers are this may be a mess.
Here’s my question: Does detachment need to be preceded by acknowledgment and emotional integration, or do you see transcendence as an immediate path forward?
This surprises me but Yes I see Transcendence as a immediate path forward. I’ve had glimpses… to be addresed in part two. Yes their will be apart two.
Krishnamurti questioned whether detachment is truly the opposite of attachment, suggesting that if one pursues detachment as a goal, it can become another form of attachment, creating conflict and striving.
That matches my experience of detachment as a goal. Removing the notion of ‘goal’ detachment changes from something one does or seeks but a way of being, an awareness of allowing? Such a detachment is not a denial of trauma, emotions, or the investigation into such things but to paraphrase Millo no longer identifing with it anymore.
Does that mean suffering doesn’t warrant full emotional acknowledgment before moving on? Now I hear Krishnamurti asking what acknowledgment means. If acknowledgment means holding on to what we discovered, then we have just created a different version of what we will suffer from. If acknowledgment means flow and no longer identifying with the trauma then I think we get closer. We still suffer as life in ‘time’ (measurement) – in maya – is suffering but what has changed is a possibility of flow.
Is full emotional acknowledgment a path to healing – Yes
Has it worked for me, no.
Have I observed it working for others not really. But I have a biasFrom my earliest memories I have been taught that to get to Love I must do the work and follow the rules, (rules that included full emotional acknowledgement) and then just maybe I would deserve to be Loved.
The experience of maya is real and more imminent grabbing our attention while the experience of the Eternal is real but still…
Neither path cancers the other. My experience is that the realm of maya is more likely to separate us from the experience of stillness and Eternal. While the experience of the Eternal immediately addresses maya.A note on Love from Krishnamurti
“When the mind is no longer projecting itself, pursuing its particular sensations, demands, urges, hidden fears, seeking self-fulfilment, held in bondage to belief – only then is there a possibility of love.
So, we must be concerned, not with love, which comes into being spontaneously, without our particularly seeking it, we must be concerned with the things that are hindering love, with the things of the mind which project themselves and create a barrier.My doing the work had only created different barriers. The wisdom traditions all suggest a work that is no work. What if I lived what I said I belived
April 2, 2025 at 7:53 am #444570Peter
ParticipantHi Anita
I’ve been asking myself how I could express my thoughts without being dismissive are making it appear I was suggesting thier was only one path.
How does one express that the world of Maya is a vivid and compelling reality, but ultimately, it is a temporary and illusory manifestation, not the ultimate truth. and not sound dismissive?For me the path of rumination doesn’t work as another Truth I’ve come to know is that – “No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it,” Albert Einstein
Rumination has helped me gain better understanding and come to terms with past hurts but never healing. Never the Love that I also desired. For that I’ve had to ‘transcend the world of maya’ only to surprised that I already was, what I was seeking. These tend to be momentary realizations as you noted Life is lived in the world of Maya and it is thier that we must find our way, or own path… Only something did changed the past pains that had hunted me no longer had the same power over me. I still had to deal the repercussions of the past but…yeah that’s going to sound dismissive.I’ll let Anthony de Mello speak for me (though I don’t think myself enlighten – “Before enlightenment, I used to be depressed: after enlightenment, I continue to be depressed.” But there’s a difference: I don’t identify with it anymore.”
Hi Alessa
I agree, I’m a fan of Krishnamurti but in small doses. I’m still coming to terms with how he totally dismantled my notion of belief. Which I will spare everyone. “)I also would not say I was a happy child. Anxious child seems a better description yet when Anthony said -“Happiness is the natural state of little children” I knew what he was saying was a truth…. so I must of had moments… yes thier were moments.
For me language is a problem as you can’t use it without creating duality. Anything one says eventually has to be unsaid. I think this is why Krishnamurti came to the path of negation in his path to know Love. For me language and duality are intimately connected so belongs to the world of maya.
I’ve been exploring the thought that its motion and language that creates our experience of life within the world of Maya. AI wrote that as ‘our perceptions and understanding of reality are filtered through the lens of language and shaped by the constant flux of experience (motion).’ And of Allan Watts noted most of the language we use was given to us and not our own…
Anyway their I go again and again I apologize
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