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PeterParticipantHi Thomas
I like your thought about meeting in the stream entry and being silent in our understanding.As someone prone to self reflection, I completely agree. In my own meditation, I sometimes choose to follow a thought and watch as words form around it. Sometimes, when I’m still, a part of me notices where I can’t be sure if my mind is using the words, or if the words are using my mind.
Its funny how reflection can be two things at once: a tool for processing, and a Zen mirror simply noticing. It’s amazing that both can happen at the exact same time, as you noted earlier.
PeterParticipant🙂 a Freudian slip and or synchronicity?
The Quote from Midnight Train should have been “race through time” but I typed “read through time”“Race through time” implies velocity, escape, and running away from something, the ego desperately trying to outrun its pain by staying on the “train of work.” Where “Read through time” implies treating time (and life) as a text, a script, or a map to be interpreted.
By slipping into “read through time,” I wonder if my subconscious captured the exact essence of what I was attempting to describe? The ego-self tendency to turn living, immediate experience into words to be read rather than a reality to be directly felt. (sadly all to familiar in todays religions and politics)
Instead of just running through time, the ego tries to “read” its way through it, analyzing the story, scanning for threats, categorizing events into logic, and living in the narrative rather than the raw presence.
It is almost poetic how changing a single word changes how meaning is experienced…
PeterParticipantI read this passage from Matt Haig’s The Midnight Train recently, and discovered myself crying..
He had attempted to reinvent himself. An attempt to become business. To become money. To become a sign above a shop. To transcend himself rather than just being the man he was. To read through time with no weight and substance, but with maximum velocity. Ultimately even love was weak against the desire to avoid pain. Because what was love but another door into it. Better to keep those doors closed. Better to stay on the train of work… Until of course, you actually die and realize the mistake you made.
In the story, Wilber experiences loss, guilt, and an undeserved shame far too early in life. Out of sheer survival, his ego constructs a place for that pain to hide… though, of course, pain never stays hidden for long. Slowly, even after finding Love, the story begins writing him. He becomes work, money, and a sign above a shop, moving through life with maximum velocity and no weight or substance, all to outrun the threat of a past hurt again. In that fortress of logic, the word “love” becomes hidden in his story, redefined as another door into pain… the hiding ego/self decides it is safer to lock the door permanently.
The first arrow is the original painful event—unavoidable, raw, and real.
The second arrow is our initial emotional reaction to it.
The third arrow is the elaborate narrative constructed by the ego to protect itself, a fortress built entirely out of words, logic, and self-inflicted rules (“Avoid love, stay on the train of work, become a sign above a shop”).The tragedy of the third arrow is that it originates from a real, lived injury, but once the story takes over, the words become our life, and the armor ends up inflicting far more suffering than the original wound ever did.
To break the Zen master’s staff, to step out of the illusion, we must first notice. In a world that constantly encourages maximum velocity and busyness, moving ever faster… the simple act of noticing when we are retreating into a story is more vital than ever.
I write this feeling Matt Haig’s words held up a direct mirror to my own heart. I continue to find myself falling into that old trap of a closed heart… But perhaps the true shift isn’t in never building the fortress again, it’s in recognizing the walls the moment they start going up, putting down the tools, and choosing to remain present with the living, vulnerable human being underneath.
PeterParticipantThanks for Responding Alessa, I appreciate how deeply you engage with these ideas. 🩵
I think we keep stumbling right into a classic predicament of Zen and Tao: the moment we use language, we become entangled in duality. Because of that, Zen and the Tao are often mistaken as trying to dismiss language, memory, or the ego altogether!
When I brought up the map and the territory, and the spinning coin, I was very much trying to show the importance of an AND, rather than an EITHER/OR…
We need the landed coin, we need names, language, memory, and the structure of the ego to navigate life, process trauma, form relationships, and relate to one another. The map is essential.
AND reality is also the coin in mid-air… There is a living, immediate presence that exists right now before we label it or lock it into a fixed story, that can limit and enhance our lives, often in the same moment…
In my own meditation, I’ve noticed that the ego cannot easily exist outside of language. When words arise, he ego, sometimes out of fear, trap us in language leading us to forget the reality of the ‘coin in mid air’ which brings about the wounds of the third arrow. That third arrow is always self-inflicted, held together entirely by the stories and words we build around an experience and protection of our ego…
A Zen master might have just picked up his staff, broken it over his knee, and said nothing at all to show the limits of words, how they trap us, and how we free ourselves… I play the sad fool, using more words to try and explain why words aren’t the whole story!
Thanks for the octopus video.
PeterParticipantSorry I intended that for the ‘I am not the person I used to be’ thread…
but than maybe… I can draw it back to Zen…
The map is drawn on paper.
The territory is walked on foot.
The coin in memory has already landed.
The coin in the present is forever in the air.Zen is the practice of stepping off the paper and back onto the earth, reclaiming the living reality before language comes in to divide it into this or that. What follows is a reflection on the quantum spin, the limits of language, and why staying present is our only safeguard in the age of artificial intelligence…
I know I sometimes play the fool, using words to point toward the limitations of words. Yet I keep returning to this theme because it feels increasingly important.
Human societies have always depended on maps. Language itself is a map. Laws are maps. Religions are maps. Scientific theories are maps. For centuries we have navigated reality through symbols and concepts, and for the most part it has worked remarkably well, though perhaps at a cost…
Yet every map carries a hidden danger when we begin to forget that it is a map. That point that often goes unnoticed where the words we use to express the complicated, wonderous.. and yes horrific begin to write an define us…
What fascinates me about the age of Large Language Models is that we have now created the ultimate map-maker!
An AI does not inhabit the territory. It does not experience the wind beneath the spinning coin. It does not know uncertainty, grief, wonder, love, or presence. It knows only patterns left behind in language. It studies billions of landed coins and becomes extraordinarily skilled at predicting where the next one is likely to fall.
In this sense, an LLM is a mirror held up to humanity’s accumulated past. It is built from recorded memories, inherited definitions, historical categories, and the countless stories we have told about ourselves. It is what makes it so useful.
The danger arises when we forget the difference between the map and the territory.
The danger is not AI., it is the moment we forgot that landed coins are not the whole story. For centuries we have taken snapshots of reality, called them truth, and then built identities around them. We have always been tempted to let yesterday’s labels define today’s possibilities.
An algorithm simply reflects this tendency back to us. If I allow it to define my feelings, my identity, my limitations, or my possibilities, I allow the language of yesterday to author tomorrow. The map begins drawing the map-maker.
When people become trapped in rigid either-or thinking, they become predictable. Successful or failure. Good or bad. Heads or tails. Once life is reduced to fixed labels, our responses become increasingly scripted. Ironically, the more tightly we cling to old definitions, the more machine-like we become.
Perhaps this is why I keep returning to the image of the spinning coin.
The landed coin matters. We need names, labels, categories, and descriptions. We need language to communicate with one another and we need maps to navigate the world. The problem is not that coins land. The problem is forgetting that the landing is only a moment.
Every label is a snapshot, not an identity.
Every definition captures something real, but never the whole.
Every map points toward the territory, yet can never contain it.Those moments of awakening, when we step out of memory and return to direct experience, remind us of something that no map can fully describe. We are simultaneously the observer and the observed, the map-maker and the territory, the coin and the spinning.
An AI can generate endless maps. It can reflect humanity’s accumulated knowledge with astonishing skill. But it cannot inhabit the living immediacy from which all maps arise.
Each time we return to that living present, we reclaim something essential. We remember that language is a tool, not a prison. A guide, not a destiny.
And perhaps that is the real task in the age of AI is to learn how to use ever more powerful maps without forgetting the uncharted territory of being alive…
“Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.”
and a simple warning:
Do not mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself…Zen teaches that words are only a finger pointing at the moon.
Most of our lives are spent cataloging landed coins—naming, labeling, and filing away the past into static concepts of “good” or “bad,” “Heads” or “Tails.” But Zen reminds us that reality lives only in the spin.
Though this began as an accidental detour into a Zen thread, perhaps it isn’t an accident at all. In an era where algorithms now draft our maps for us, returning to the unmapped immediacy of the present moment may be the most essential Zen practice left to us… 🙂 🙏
PeterParticipantI’ve been reading Matt Haig – The Midnight Train – and reminded of this conversation. I feel he captures the grief of these moments…
There were many deaths in life…
A person, it seemed to the Ghost now, died in stages. And so it was particularly poignant to see himself at a young age. To come was the death of youth, of ideals. Of connection, friendships, principles, love. And these were often just choices. Choices that had seemed right at the time, in the moment, but when you got to the end, to the very last death, you looked back and realized all the lost versions that you left along the way. He missed, right than, the person he had once been. And the goodness that had existed inside him, as natural as the green in grass.The forwardness of life was a problem, thought the Ghost.
If days could be scattered all over, so on Monday you were forty and on Thursday you were nine and on Wednesday you were eighty-one, that would be more helpful. You would know the fleeting nature of things, realize how many versions of ourselves a lifetime contained. It would make life’s beauty so abundantly clear. The way a sunset was so beguiling because it tells us that every day eventually sinks into night.Latter in a dialog between Wilber and Charlie: “Reality is always moving,” said Charlie… “Everything is particles and particles aren’t still. They move around in a wave. The quantum wave function… This is physics.”
Wilber watched Charlie take a shilling from his pocket. “See this. When it’s in the air it could land either side up. So it is both heads and tails.” He flicked it and it landed on the stained purple carpet… Queen facing up. “Heads,” Wilber said… “Yeah, but listen, Wibo, with life the coin is always spinning in the air in the present and it has always landed in the past… We are the spinning coin… reality is a spinning coin… It contains many things… The existence of tragedy in your life does not mean that your whole life has to be that way. You’re the spinning coin…” — Matt Haig, The Midnight TrainI like that, the moment the coin lands and is labeled and so defined it becomes the past… and it is here we forget the present, and allow the either or to define us…
We are map-makers by nature. From early childhood, we attempt to chart the wilderness of human experience, drawing neat boundaries around raw emotion and labeling every event that meets us. Yet, in our impulse to categorize, we fall into a fundamental trap: as map-makers, we tend to live only at the exact moment the coin lands. We freeze the outcome, stamp it with a definitive label—Heads OR Tails, triumph OR tragedy—and then set up camp inside that frozen definition.
When we live this way, we inhabit memory rather than presence. We mistake our static maps for the living territory, forgetting that every line we draw is merely a historical record of where the coin used to be. We lock ourselves into past triumphs or past heartbreaks, convinced that a single outcome on the carpet defines the entire landscape of who we are.
The wisdom of the Tao lies in the realization that the map-maker is also part of the territory. We are not detached cartographers standing safely outside of life, observing a series of coin flips from a distance; we are the motion. We are the air, the spin, and the superposition of possibilities unfolding right now. To view life through this lens is to remember that the coin is perpetually in mid-air—always spinning, always active, and holding both Heads AND Tails simultaneously in the vivid present.
Every time we “return”… every time we let go of our rigid labels, step out of memory, and drop our insistence on fixed outcomes… we wake up to this truth. We stop defining ourselves by where the coin landed yesterday, and instead step into the dynamic rhythm of the now. In that moment of awakening, the map-maker becomes transparent to the territory, and we realize that we are the Tao itself, waking up to its own endless, spinning potential.
PeterParticipantI’ve been reading Matt Haig – The Midnight Train – and reminded of this conversation. I feel he captures the grief of these moments…
There were many deaths in life…
A person, it seemed to the Ghost now, died in stages. And so it was particularly poignant to see himself at a young age. To come was the death of youth, of ideals. Of connection, friendships, principles, love. And these were often just choices. Choices that had seemed right at the time, in the moment, but when you got to the end, to the very last death, you looked back and realized all the lost versions that you left along the way. He missed, right than, the person he had once been. And the goodness that had existed inside him, as natural as the green in grass.The forwardness of life was a problem, thought the Ghost.
If days could be scattered all over, so on Monday you were forty and on Thursday you were nine and on Wednesday you were eighty-one, that would be more helpful. You would know the fleeting nature of things, realize how many versions of ourselves a lifetime contained. It would make life’s beauty so abundantly clear. The way a sunset was so beguiling because it tells us that every day eventually sinks into night.Latter in a dialog between Wilber and Charlie: “Reality is always moving,” said Charlie… “Everything is particles and particles aren’t still. They move around in a wave. The quantum wave function… This is physics.”
Wilber watched Charlie take a shilling from his pocket. “See this. When it’s in the air it could land either side up. So it is both heads and tails.” He flicked it and it landed on the stained purple carpet… Queen facing up. “Heads,” Wilber said… “Yeah, but listen, Wibo, with life the coin is always spinning in the air in the present and it has always landed in the past… We are the spinning coin… reality is a spinning coin… It contains many things… The existence of tragedy in your life does not mean that your whole life has to be that way. You’re the spinning coin…” — Matt Haig, The Midnight TrainI like that, the moment the coin lands and is labeled and so defined it becomes the past… and it is here we forget the present, and allow the either or to define us…
We are map-makers by nature. From early childhood, we attempt to chart the wilderness of human experience, drawing neat boundaries around raw emotion and labeling every event that meets us. Yet, in our impulse to categorize, we fall into a fundamental trap: as map-makers, we tend to live only at the exact moment the coin lands. We freeze the outcome, stamp it with a definitive label—Heads OR Tails, triumph OR tragedy—and then set up camp inside that frozen definition.
When we live this way, we inhabit memory rather than presence. We mistake our static maps for the living territory, forgetting that every line we draw is merely a historical record of where the coin used to be. We lock ourselves into past triumphs or past heartbreaks, convinced that a single outcome on the carpet defines the entire landscape of who we are.
The wisdom of the Tao lies in the realization that the map-maker is also part of the territory. We are not detached cartographers standing safely outside of life, observing a series of coin flips from a distance; we are the motion. We are the air, the spin, and the superposition of possibilities unfolding right now. To view life through this lens is to remember that the coin is perpetually in mid-air—always spinning, always active, and holding both Heads AND Tails simultaneously in the vivid present.
Every time we “return”… every time we let go of our rigid labels, step out of memory, and drop our insistence on fixed outcomes… we wake up to this truth. We stop defining ourselves by where the coin landed yesterday, and instead step into the dynamic rhythm of the now. In that moment of awakening, the map-maker becomes transparent to the territory, and we realize that we are the Tao itself, waking up to its own endless, spinning potential.
PeterParticipantHi Alessa.
A piano-playing octopus makes me smile is definitely a miracle! The world indeed is a miracle!
Your reply actually helped me realize something about my own relationship with the word ‘complicated’. For me, using the word usually ended up creating the very tension it implies and ‘made it so’. I’ve realized it’s a word that no longer serves me well. On a personal inner level, when I let such words go, the world stops being complicated and just is. In the word place wonder and compassion arise, but not as words… but how does one express that?
I didn’t intend my original comment negatively at all, it’s fascinating how text lands. Out of curiosity, what was it in my words that gave you a negative vibe?
PeterParticipantBeautifully put, Thomas.
It reminds me of something I’ve been pondering over recently: We are map-makers by nature. The Tao is the realization that the map-maker is also part of the territory. Every time we “return,” we are the Tao waking up to itself.
I wonder if true free will is what happens in that space where the self dissolves and becomes transparent to the territory. It’s only when we drop back down onto the grid of the map that we look back and call it destiny.
PeterParticipantLove that Thomas – A time for all things, there is something about music to break open a heart.
I often wonder how the words – the world is complicated – have shaped my own experience. I suspect the world has always been the world and that my thoughts create the complications. I watch as both thoughts float away… it feels the kindest of things… Thanks Alessa
PeterParticipantThomas, your insight into the second arrow is beautiful, but notice the subtle trap in your closing words: “Just got to let it go,” “I still work on myself,” and especially, “easier said than
I felt the sting of the third arrow hidden right there in those words…
The phrase “easier said than done” is a room that language builds to trap us. It implies there is a massive mountain of physical effort required to reach peace turn a concept of non-action into a grueling chore. But the work that requires no work is simply realization. The moment you realize your hand is on a hot stove, you don’t say, “Taking my hand off is easier said than done.” The realization is the opening of the hand.
When we say it is hard, notice our words harden into concepts. The ego happily hides inside that spiritual struggle, pretending it is going to fix a mind that isn’t actually broken. We don’t do letting go; we stop carrying the arrow.
There is a profound cosmic irony here: it is never the raw experience of life that traps us, but the language we use to describe it. Reality is fluid like water, but language freezes it into ice. I’ve found that avoiding this funny sad trap of language, that noticing words like ‘just’ and ‘easer said’ and holding them lightly… has helped the fire go out.
Master Shuzan held up his short bamboo staff before his students and said: “If you call this a short staff, you oppose its reality. If you do not call it a short staff, you ignore the fact. Now, what do you call it?”
A monk asked Master Nansen, “Is there a teaching that has not been given to the people?
“Nansen replied: “It is not mind, it is not Buddha, it is not a thing.”Master Kyogen said: “Zen is like a man hanging from the branch of a tree by his teeth over a precipice. His hands cannot grasp a bough, his feet cannot reach a limb. Someone stands beneath the tree and asks him: ‘Why did Bodhidharma come from the West?’ (What is the ultimate truth of Zen?) If the man does not answer, he fails his duty. If he opens his mouth to answer, he falls to his death. What should he do?
The Wordless space before thoughts and labels are created… my own response to the koans – is to hold words lightly..
Our thoughts arrive wearing borrowed cloths, speaking in languages we never chose.
Long before we awaken, words are already dreaming us.Once every word was alive, A spark. A gesture toward the unsayable.
But images harden and we begin mistaking the map for the mountain,
the symbol for the pulse beneath it.
We wonder inside these rooms of language believing they are the world…Language rises as mist, before the mind wakes.
Words form and dissolve: shadows toughing light.
Thoughts builds its small rooms, naming each wall “me”
Yet in silence between breaths, seer is seeing…
Concepts loosen, Transparency returns.
Language, released from definition, become a gesture…
A leaf on a river, moving always, needing no name.And the arrows, fall to the ground, in silence…
PeterParticipantA young monk named Jiro sat by the monastery pond, his face twisted in frustration. He was skipping stones, but instead of letting them glide, he threw them with angry, violent jerks.
The Master, watching from the bamboo grove, walked over and sat on a nearby rock. “Jiro, you are not skipping stones. You are attacking the water. What troubles you?”Jiro sighed, dropping his remaining stones. “Yesterday, during the village festival, I tripped and spilled a bowl of hot broth all over a merchant. He cursed at me, and everyone laughed. My knee still burns from the hot soup.”
The Master nodded. “That is the first arrow. A painful event, an accident of life. It strikes the flesh.”
“But it didn’t stop there,” Jiro continued, his voice rising. “I spent the entire night awake in my room. I kept replaying the moment. I felt the shame all over again. I grew furious at the merchant for yelling, and furious at the villagers for laughing. I couldn’t sleep.”“That is the second arrow,” the Master said softly. “The event was over, but you used your own mind to shoot yourself again. The first arrow hurt your knee; the second arrow hurt your peace.”
Jiro looked down, his fists clenching. “I know! I knew it while it was happening! I told myself, ‘You are a Zen monk, you shouldn’t be this angry. Why are you letting a stupid mistake ruin your night? You are failing your training.’ I fought so hard to force the anger out of my mind, but the more I fought it, the louder it got. Now I am just disgusted with myself for being so weak.”
The Master smiled gently and picked up a stone. “And that, Jiro, is the third arrow.”
“The third arrow?” Jiro asked.“Yes. You became angry that you were angry. You suffered because you were suffering. You shot the third arrow of judgment into your own wound, punishing yourself for being human. You tried to fight the darkness with a sword, which only exhausted you and gave the darkness shape.”
Jiro looked at the Master, the tension leaving his shoulders. “Then what should I have done when the second arrow struck? How do I let it go?”
The Master tossed his stone. It skipped smoothly across the pond, creating gentle, widening ripples.
“Do not fight the ripple,” the Master said. “When a memory arises, do not try to push it away, and do not judge yourself for feeling it. Simply look at it and say, ‘Ah, there is a ripple.’ If you do not strike the water with a third arrow, the pond will return to stillness all by itself.”
PeterParticipantHi Caroline,
Thank you for having the courage to express your experience so honestly, and for inviting us to share what we feel.“I am not the person I used to be”… that is a phrase I’ve sat with many times myself, sometimes in grief and sometimes in quiet gratitude…
In my own life, when I feel like the landmarks I relied on are gone, I tend to panic, feeling as though the entire landscape beneath me has been destroyed. It has taken a lot of time (a lot) to realize that even when my old ways of navigating life messiness break down, the ground beneath my feet is still there… During that lasted experience wondering about the person I am I wrote in my journal: We are map-makers by nature. The Tao (Way) is the realization that the map-maker is also part of the territory. Every time we “return”, whether through a lifetime work or a moment of “seeing”, we are the Tao waking up to itself…. I’m not always able to lean into that, but sometimes…
Richard Wagamese wrote something about life’s friction that has meant a lot to me when things feel torn apart:
life is sometimes hard. There are challenges. there are difficulties. There is pain. As a younger man, I sought to avoid pain and difficulty and only caused myself more of the same. These days, I choose to face life head-on and I have become a comet. I arc across the sky of my life and the hard times are the friction that shaves off the worn and tired bits. The more I travel head-on, the more I am shaped, and the things that no longer work or are unnecessary drop away. It’s a good way to travel. I believe eventually I will wear away all resistance, until all that’s left of me is light. – Embers
“I arc across the sky of my life…” I love that image even though… well something to aim for… and I wonder if anything is really lost in that light…
I don’t have answers for the weight you’re carrying, but I really appreciate you sharing where you are at.
PeterParticipantTodays Richard Wagamese Meditation seems appropriate
Me: Tell me about love.
Old Woman: It is our only real choice. The only thing that we can truly give.
Me: How do we do that?
Old Woman: Choose it above all else. Love is you leading me back to the highest possible version of myself. It’s me leading you back to who you were created to be. It is the most important choice we can make for each other.
Me: Those closest to us, you mean.
Old Woman: No everyone. Everything. Widening your circle at every opportunity.
Me: Sounds hard.
Old Woman: So is being born. But we all do it.
PeterParticipantSo, I don’t have to do anything to earn love. I already am. 🙏 I also will rest in that…
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