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PeterParticipantHi Jana
I haven’t seen that quote before.
The other day I was watching a old film about war where the soldiers behind enemy lines argued about taking some action that in some of their views would make then little different then the enemy. The danger is war is becoming what your fighting. You can see this in the conflicts today.
A story comes to mind that Campbell told “of a samurai warrior, a Japanese warrior, who had the duty to avenge the murder of his overlord. And he actually, after some time, found and cornered the man who had murdered his overlord. And he was about to deal with him with his samurai sword, when this man in the corner, in the passion of terror, spat in his face. And the samurai sheathed the sword and walked away”
Had the samurai killed the murder out of anger instead of his dharma, would the samurai still be a samurai?
I think there is truth in the saying that the end is in the beginning, the inner place from which we act matters.PeterParticipantReading ‘The Life Impossible by Matt Haig. Matt has been candid about his tendency towards depression and suicidal struggles, which make his stories very much worth reading. He fascinates me because its clear he ‘knows’ the experience of all things connected and that the answer to Life as it Is, is a authentic Yes, yet this ‘knowing’ has not kept him from his depressive experiences, though it seems to have helped him move through the experiences.
The Life Impossible starts to with a young person letter to a math teacher asking for help, which very much resonated with me.
…
At times I have found it very hard to carry on. It feels my life is already written at this young age and everything is known. I sometimes can’t breathe with all the pressure.
I am in a pattern, like a number pattern, a Fibonacci sequence – 0,1,2,3,5,8,13,21… – and like that sequence things get less surprising the further I go on. But instead of realizing the next number is found by adding the two before it, you realize that everything ahead of you has already been decided. And as I get older, as I pass more numbers, the pattern becomes more predictable. And nothing can break that pattern. I used to believe in God but now I don’t believe in anything. I was in love but I messed that up. I hate myself sometimes. I mess everything thing up. I feel guilty all the time… and I feel guilty for that too..
I look at what is happening in the world and I see that our whole species is on a path to destruction. Like it is programmed, another pattern. And I just get fed up with being a human, being this small tiny thing that can’t do anything about the world. Everything feels impossible…
Matt Haig – The Life Impossible(The novel is the response of the math teacher)
I suspect a lot of people can identify with those questions and thoughts, especially in this digital age where everything including ourselves is becoming a algorithm.
The experience of the blank canvas, beginner mind, Eternal Now… hasn’t and won’t make things different. The patterns remain… (My suspicion is that only forgiveness can change a pattern. Perhaps the only tool we have to influence life)
Still realizing the Eternal, their is a change which I can only describe as bitter sweet, which is a kind of contentment?
I suspect Campbell had it right when he said – “Realizing the relationship of the temporal moment to the eternal—not moment, but forever— is the sense of life.”Richard Wagamese says it better
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From our very first breath, we are in relationship. With that in-drawn draft of air, we become joined to everything that ever was, is and ever will be. When we exhale, we forget that relationship by virtue of the act of living.
Our breath commingles with all breath, and we are a part of everything. That’s the simple fact of things. We are born into a state of relationship. Relationships never end; they just change. In believing that lies the freedom to carry compassion, empathy, love, kindness and respect into and through whatever changes. We are made more by that practice. – Richard WagamesePeterParticipantI understand that answering how this is changing your experience of life can be complex.
Hi Anita
I often ask myself if I am living what I believe, and suspect I’m not. Even as I write that I question my use of the word believe…
I have got to a place where I notice in most moments the “yin and yang” dancing around themselves, though for me I would replace the words with the temporal and eternal. (Even as I know the eternal has no opposite as it is the source from which the temporal arises and returns) If I’m honest with myself I must admit that I spend most of my time in the temporal experience, judging, measuring… I know this because I find myself anxious most days that that arrises from the tendance to measure. The difference today in that I remain aware of the eternal, and the possibility of the return. Thus the image of yin yang as the best I seem to be able to do/be is a dance between the two even as I ‘know’ it remains a blank canvas.
Then there is Alan Watts warning: “if you’re going to outwit the devil (ourselves), it’s terribly important that you don’t give him any advance notice” If I set the intention to try to live out what I believe, the ‘devil’ is going to come out to play. Better perhaps not to try or believe and instead dance.
In reference to the blank canvas; You aren’t really dancing until you get to the place where you ‘forget‘ all the rules of dancing. Oddly it seams we first must learn so that we can then forget and do/be – work for that which no work is required.
PeterParticipantHi Anita
You have a knack for writing. You ask a good question, how this is changing your experience of life, of which I’m not sure how to answer. Language is surely troublesome.
PeterParticipantHi Anita
You put that quite nicely.
The key for me was a realization of the present moment not as a measurement of time but the Eternal Now.
Odd thoughts on the Eternal.
The Eternal is not infinite though it contains the infinite.
The Eternal is not continuous, continuous is a measurement and the Eternal is not a measurement.
The Eternal nor does it have a opposite.
The Eternal IsCampbell’s suggested that the question behind the Hero quest is ‘ How will you respond to life as it Is?’ I think we assume (I did anyway) that we we see/know what Life as it is Is. Now I realize that most of the quest has the hero being confronted with the fact that they do not know or see life as it is. In fact their is a tendency to run away from seeing.
The wisdom traditions point that the answer to the question, if we do not wish to live in fear or anxiety is YES. I used to assume that saying Yes was enough only to realize that I couldn’t answer the question when I wasn’t seeing/knowing Life as it IS
To return to the metaphor the canvas is always the a canvas.Anyway Today I was reading from ‘Notes on a Nervous Planet’ that had a quote from Alan Watts
“We seldom realize that our most private thoughts and emotions are not actually our own.
For we think in terms of language’s and images which we did not invent, but which were given to us by our society.”My still self felt the truth of that statement. I noted in other post that I’m struggle with the current happenings has left me questioning reality. Why I was not seeing things as so many were (not just a little but almost a total disconnect from their experience) The above quote resonated with me, that perhaps the thoughts and emotions were not mine… language really is problematic. I also felt that the notion fit into the metaphor of the blank canvas
I was wondering what others thoughts on that quote might be.
PeterParticipantHi John
I have to admit the first time it was suggested that it is better not to believe I pushed back on it, even as the still part of myself said this is a truth.
I don’t believe that when I step off the curb I’ll arrive safely. I have experienced that if I pay attention, look both ways, that the probability is that I’ll get to the other side safely. The association with fear of not getting across associated with looking both ways and staying alert. Here I would argue is not a belief at all but a calculation of risk and probability, a accumulation of experience/memory feed into my ‘algorithm’ involving crossing the street.
This is the question I’ve been asking myself. If I believe and have the experience then do I continue to believe or do I ‘know’, and ‘knowing. can stop believing? Which feels, as I write it… freeing.
PeterParticipantSadly we can not edit the posts and remove those http tags
Not sue if these are inspirational but they have help me to be more honest with myself.
”We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.” – Seneca
We would rather be ruined than changed
We would rather die in our dread
Than climb the cross of the moment
And let our illusions die.”
― W H AudenPeterParticipant<p lang=”en-US”>Not sue if these are inspirational but they have help me to be more honest with myself.</p>
<p lang=”en-US”>”We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.” – Seneca</p>
<p lang=”en-US”>“We would rather be ruined than changed
We would rather die in our dread
Than climb the cross of the moment
And let our illusions die.”
― W H Auden</p>PeterParticipantHi John
Hope you don’t mind me chiming inOne of the codes I live by is what the Buddha (supposedly*) said to his disciples on his death bed, ‘Do not take as truth anything anyone, including me, tells you, find out for yourself.’
Like you I wonder about statements that start out with ‘Buddha says…’ My understanding is that the word ‘Buddh’a doesn’t refer to a specific person but is a state of being/consciousness? So who or what is being pointed to when someone says ‘Buddha says’.
From the stories about Gautama he was constantly warning his disciples not to fall into the temptation of mistaking the teachings as the goal, or ‘the map for the territory’. A warning not heeded as pretty much after his death the various schools form and start fighting amongst themselves. Seems the desire to follow a teacher and ‘get it right’ is well ingrained and to my mind begs the question of freedom.
So, how much choice (freedom to choose) do you think we really have
Last weeks affirmation at the yoga studio I go to was ‘let go of limiting beliefs’ which made me smile as all beliefs are limiting in that they define boundaries. Krishnamurti argued that if you took the time to look deep into your beliefs you would see they are associated with our fears. If we wanted then to be free from fear it is better not to believe. Sure enough when looking into my beliefs I noted they were indeed associated with, even if not verbalized, fear.
Then the word belief and how we use it is odd. If never having sat on a chair I said I believe this chair will support my weight that is reasonable. If after sitting on the chair numerous times I continue to say I believe this chair will support my weight. You might wonder what meant by ‘belief’ and if their wasn’t a element of fear attached to the statement.
I would have argued that every exercise of freedom is also a limitation of freedom where as Krishnamurti argues belies confine and should not be confused with notions of freedom or creativity.
Back to the canvas metaphor. Every brush stroke represents the choice taken and all the choices not taken. Each brush stroke influencing the next brush stroke until the accumulation produces the work. In a way each brush stroke having been influenced is a ‘less free choice’. Eventually the artist develops a style and can even be identified by their brush strokes. For most no mater how hard they try to be creative and create something new they can’t escape their style. The only way to be creative and create something new is not to accumulate. In other words realize that as you paint the canvas remains blank. Not a easy task, but then maybe its enough to have the realization?
I think the notion of Karma is similar as it is also being a accumulation of action/memory/brush strokes…. To avoid accumulating Karma, the canvas needs to remain blank… I’m not sure that would be much fun, but wonder is the point is that we stop misunderstanding the notion of freedom, stop pretending it be something noble but more likely a call to create boundaries. Perhaps then when we exercise freedom we also create space for compassion.
PeterParticipantAnita
<font color=”blue”> However, considering it from the lens of the Eternal might provide a different perspective because the Eternal encompasses all, even the parts we struggle to understand or accept.. doesn’t it?</font>
I believe it does.
Its a work, not to work, in progress. 🙂Its disconcerting when those close to you realities and the reality are so different from yours. I image them saying the same about my reality…. Another post talked about disappointment and asking advice on when to speak and when to stay silent. I think behind that is this need to be seen and heard, which the current happenings have made even more difficult and likely behind me being just ok and not feeling myself.
PeterParticipantOne more thing, Peter, you wrote: “I find recent events troubling and having me questioning my reality“- if you’d like to share about these recent events, please do.
That so many people have chosen a vision I find little hope in and that I don’t resonate with. Its difficult to “see” that as arising from Love, yet from the Eternal is.
PeterParticipantAnita
You made me smile. The ‘poem’ was something that arose at a time of insomnia 🙂 But yes I do now use it to quite my thoughts and ‘let go’.
“and (I am developing the idea), they imagine that the Eternal will happen later in time.” I think that is common projection, that was what I was thought. It never occurred to me that the Eternal wasn’t a measure of time. Its funny now, all those teachings about being in the present, and I was anything but as my mind was stuck in measurement, was the present a breath, two breaths, the moment between breaths… The realization that the Eternal Now wasn’t a measurement has been freeing. Funny that we work for that which no work is required. It is and you already and have always been it.
Anyway hope everyone is having a good thanksgiving weekend and not to warped up in the Black Friday noise.
PeterParticipantHi EvFran
Your asking a question I think many struggle with. When to speak up and when not to and maybe even block them. The latter being difficult as that could mean we stop listening ourselves and or putting our heads in the sand.
I think we ought to be careful of all or nothing solutions though if I’m being honest with myself tend towards the latter.
The best advice on such question I’ve come across was from a book ‘Crucial Conversations Tools for talking when stakes are high.
The questions I ask myself before engaging is, Is it safe, do I understand my own story, am I in a space were can hear/listen… am I acting out of a sense of righteous nutritiousness which is common today and quite addictive.Am I hoping to be seen and understood by a person who can’t see me…
PeterParticipantHi Anita
I’m… doing ok, thanks for asking. Not always feeling like myself of late as I find recent events troubling and having me questioning my reality.You mention something I’ve been pondering as it concerns the eternal. When we think of the notion of “being in the present” most of us imagine a measurement of time which may be why we struggle with the concept. Especially if it becomes a something we seek.
Like the fish that doesn’t know its in water, we don’t realized the present we desire to ‘be’ in is the Eternal Now from which we swim. The Eternal which isn’t a measurement of time or a measurement at all. The kingdom is here now and within you.
Been working on my meditation “poem”, centering prayer…
‘The Temporal and Eternal’
The sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening measuring out our day.
At this moment somewhere the sun is both rising and setting
Yet the sun neither rises nor sets
It is, we are, I am… that.
All things arise from and return…All movement arises from and returns to stillness
It is, we are, I am… Stillness
All sound, language… all measurement arises from and returns to silence
It is, we are, I am… Silence.
All Life arises from and returns to Love.
It is, we are, I am… Love.
All time arises from and returns to Eternity.
It is, we are, I am… Eternal.All things arise from and returns to… the Eternal Now, Stillness, Silence, Love
It is, we are, I am… that.PeterParticipant“We swim in a river consciousness, experiencing just a molecule of the whole, mistaking it as separated from the whole the I calls I… We do not “come into” this world; we come out of it, as leaves from a tree. As the ocean “waves,” the universe “peoples.” Every individual is an expression of the whole realm of nature, a unique action of the total universe.” – Alan Watts
“In this stillness, I am the trees alive with singing. I am the sky everywhere at once. I am the snow and the wind bearing stories across geographies and generations. I am the light everywhere descending. I am my heart evoking drum song. I am my spirit rising. In the smell of theses sacred medicines burning. I am my prayers and my meditation, and I am time captured fully in this now (eternal now not a measurement of time) . I am a traveler on a sacred journey through this one shinning day. – Richard Wagamese
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“Heaven above, Heaven below, Stars above, stars below
All that is over, under shall show, Happy thou who the riddle readest” – Tabula Smaragdina“The Sphinx spoke only once, and the Sphinx said, “A grain of sand is a desert, and a desert is a grain of sand; and now let us all be silent again.” Sand and Foam by Kahlil Gibran
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