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December 18, 2024 at 4:47 pm #440848shinnenParticipant
Hi Helcat,
Yes, you’re right, there was no ill intent. Over the years I have realized that I have a tendency to explore areas that make others feel uncomfortable. And I do NOT want to do that. “I think that it might be hard for some people to practice stepping back from emotions regardless of intent, depending on their emotional regulation skills.” This is exactly to what I was referring. It is my way of life, to step back, as you put it; but it’s not for everyone, and I don’t want to suggest that others should adopt this practice.
Yes, I understand that you might want to ‘undo’ what others have taught you. My mother taught me many valuable lessons, but also many that I realized, later in live, were no longer true, if they ever were. However, these were very minor things, not at all to the same degree, I sense, that your mother misled you, ‘dropped the ball’, as they say. I am positive that I haven’t the slightest idea about what sort of hell you went through. And yes, we all suffer, but not to the same degree; some suffer much more deeply and profoundly than others; and I can’t even begin to imagine what you went though. This is not an overstatement; I really can’t. It’s good though, that your trust in the therapist bore fruit.
I’m sure that your son is in good hands, and will NOT have to live through the punishment you have. It seems to me that children from abused parent(s) go one of two ways, they either pass on the abuse to ‘their’ children, or make damn sure that their kids do not have to go the same route as they. You obviously belong to the latter group.
…. john
P.S. Yes, if you want to continue any part of any conversation via email, feel free to do so. I think you have my email address.December 18, 2024 at 3:19 pm #440847shinnenParticipantIndeed, it is quite lovely.
…… johnDecember 15, 2024 at 5:26 pm #440733shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
That’s good. I don’t expect instant replies, take your time.
I’m fine …… so far 😉
Wise or not, it’s what I believe will help me to understand myself.
It certainly will not apply to everyone though; hopefully some of it will work for you.
If one cannot be honest with themselves, well, that can be a problem.
To be honest (again), I wished I hadn’t posted the message to which you’re replying;
when I reread it I realized it was a little too raw, and might offend some.
I try to avoid that kind of preachy attitude; it doesn’t help, and often doesn’t apply to others.
I apologize if I offended anyone.
You say, “Perspectives on pain differ though, and I believe that changing the perspective can be helpful.”
Can you give me an example, or explain in more depth?
Ah, my mother, now there’s a topic. If I start to explore her beahaviour, we will all know the true meaning of eternity 😉
She was as tough as nails. She taught me what she believed, some of which was quite useful, some of
which I learned in later life, not to be true, at least not true anymore. The one thing I learned from her was
that women are quite capable, which has been a blessing, both in my marriage, and my relationships.
I have a theory, that woman are on the way to becoming the dominant sex.
The advantage of physcical strength, which has allowed men to lord it over women
for thousands of years is being erased by technology, and levelling the playing field,
to where being physically stronger is becoming less of an advantage, allowing intellect and emtotional strength
to become the deciding factors on who holds the reigns of power. And since
women are every bit as smart as men, and I would suggest emtionally stronger, they will eventually call the shots.
Anyway, that’s my rant for the day.
Take care of yourself.
…… johnDecember 12, 2024 at 4:23 pm #440375shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
I do know my strengths and weakness, for the most part. I try to change the ones I think are harmful; but I never deny their existence.
That’s good, that you see a path to healing. I rarely try to help others; not for the same reason as you; but because I don’t normally relate to their situations, except in the sense that we all suffer. I have scanned the forum to find people/situations where I might say something relative to what they’re enduring; but usually come up empty; and proffering banal platitudes is just insulting, to someone in pain.
Yes, I’m rarely put off by naysayers and pessimists. Tips for persevering? I’m afraid I have none. I was raised by a mother who’s motto was, “Giving up is NOT an option.”, reinforced by whatever successes resulted from that brainwashing.
“not judging yourself” is not exactly what I do. I was trained by the monks to impartially observe my thoughts and feelings, regardless of how ugly or beautiful, they might be; to keep them at arms length, and not take them to seriously. After all, they’re only bad, or good, when you act on, or embrace them. I’m often reminded of Brutus’ words in King Lear, “they pass by me as the idle wind, which I respect not.” Having said that, this practice will be too detached/distasteful for most people to live by. They love their emotions. Take it from me though, it has not made me an insensitive, feelingless automaton. I feel deeply and passionately about some things, just not everything.
….. johnDecember 11, 2024 at 2:58 pm #440190shinnenParticipantHi Peter,
It seems that you’ve delved into these issues quite deeply. You’re obviously a very spiritual person.
… johnDecember 10, 2024 at 7:18 pm #440083shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
I did live my childhood dream; but it wasn’t easy. Many people told me that, because there were so few opportunities in this field, and because my grades were so abysmal, I would never land a position as an analytical chemist; but never underestimate the power of perseverance, a trait which has allowed me to accomplish many things that those with much more talent and ability did not; usually because talent/ability results in a lack of perseverance; when things come easily there’s no incentive to accomplish. However, as you may have guessed from what you wrote, I WAS inspired by my high school chemistry teacher, whom I tracked down to thank, many years later, only to discover that he had died the year before . Not good!
Yes, a woman would realize this, that lack of imagination is an impediment to making good decisions. A couple of years ago, I heard a radio show, where the host was interviewing a scientist (geneticist I believe) who had done research re the genetic make up of women. He was spurred to do this, when he realized that his wife often came up with more imaginative ways of dealing with problems, than he. What he discovered was that women have a gene which, he claimed, accounted for this increased ability. My own experience, wrt to the women I know, is that they are very resourceful at finding ways to achieve their objectives. After hearing this broadcast, I expected to see a frenzy of media activity, resulting from this program; and was puzzled when I never heard another thing about it. If anyone is interested, I’d be happy to provide the copy I made of the broadcast; but I don’t know if the forum can arrange such a service.
Oh yes there’s a huge variation in Buddhist practices. The two majour streams (Theravadin and Mahayana) vary in their basic approaches. Theravada believe that one’s objective is to correct oneself; whereas Mahayana believe in a more proactive approach with society; and within those two steams there is considerable variation in emphasis on what’s most important. I belong to a Mahayana sect, but lean toward the Theravadin approach. They both have their strengths.
…. johnDecember 9, 2024 at 5:33 pm #440046shinnenParticipantHi Peter,
No, of course I don’t mind you ‘chiming in’. The more the merrier.
You raise some interesting points, especially the idea that one’s fears are associated with one’s beliefs. Many of my beliefs come from pure observations, disregarding whether I like, dislike, agree or disagree with them; but fear is a powerful motivator, so you may well be right. I’m a great believer (there’s that word again ;-)) that in order to understand one’s self, one must understand one’s motivations, which would include fears. I agree, not believing is not an option. Hell, if you didn’t believe that when stepping off the curb you’d arrive safely at the other side of the road, you’d probably never leave the house, or do anything, for that matter.
…… johnDecember 8, 2024 at 5:44 pm #440016shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
As usual your ideas are well thought out. I admire that. It’s rare.
Being a chemist, especially an analytical chemist was fascinating. I wanted to do it from the time I was a little boy, stinking the house up with my chemistry set. I loved it, and on top of that, was paid for doing it!!!
“Perfectly imperfect” I like it. Can I use it???
You’re right of course, about the more intelligent animals, they do grieve, even love, I would guess, plus other emotions that we share with them.
Freedom’s an interesting topic, because it gets right to the core of how able we are to affect change. My own sense (and I have no evidence to support it) is that most of us confuse the number of possible scenarios with our freedom to choose any one. I ‘think’ that there exists and enormous, hugely complex mixture of influences: our history, physical characteristics, mood, genetic make up, where we live, what culture, education, our financial situation, even what we had for breakfast, and on and on, that will determine, for the most part, what we will do at any particular moment. I know that this sounds fatalistic, and I suppose that in some sense it is, but to me it’s simply how it is. Of course, I still function daily on the basis of being completely free to choose, so there seems to be some conflict between what I believe and how I behave. There are two entirely different people inside me; a cold, detached, analytical observer, and a caring, sensitive, imaginative one. Somehow they manage to get on harmoniously, without killing each other … so far ; <)
I too learn much from others. If something happens, or someone does something, that makes no sense or that I don’t understand, I assume that there’s something I’m missing. You see, it is all about me; the world is as it is, it’s me that doesn’t get it; it’s me that needs correcting.
As you say, a pointer pointing in the right direction; this is how I view Buddhism. It doesn’t provide instructions on how to live, it simply suggests where one might look for answers.
Yes, after 300 years, if I’m not mistaken, is when the Buddha’s teaching were first recorded. I find it strange when people say, ‘the Buddha said’ when, as far as I know, no one really knows what he taught. If I told someone a story, and they told another, and they told another, and on and on, I suspect it wouldn’t be long before I wouldn’t recognize it as the story I told; so 300 years … hmmmm.
Anyway, thanks for listening to this catharsis.
….. johnDecember 6, 2024 at 8:33 pm #439982shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
I’m good. No complaints.
….. john
December 3, 2024 at 5:07 pm #439903shinnenParticipantHi,
Yes, indeed, watching your son explore the world would be a real eye opener.
….. john
December 3, 2024 at 4:58 pm #439902shinnenParticipantHi Anita,
I applaud you for not wanting to see yourself as a victim. Having never been through what you have, I have no idea how difficult this struggle must be. If it’s any consolation at all, the open few lines of the Dhammapada would agree with your aspiration.
“He reviled me; he injured me; he defeated me;
he deprived me.” In those who do not harbor such
grudges, anger eventually ceases.December 1, 2024 at 7:45 am #439848shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
Oh yes, the clip I posted is autobiographical, the rest of ‘the book’ is mostly random thoughts I’ve collected over the years; not particularly interesting, and rather dry reading. I don’t have many ‘intrusive thoughts’. I was an analytical chemist all of my life; and that, along with Theravadin training and other disciplines, have taught me to view my thoughts and opinions with a grain of salt.
I am a LONG way from complete, believe me. I’m afraid it’ll take many many more life times; and since I see reincarnation as one of those concepts I have no reason to believe, or disbelieve, I doubt that I’ll ever be ‘complete. Fortunately, what I believe doesn’t change anything; so, maybe, there’s still hope for me😉
I’m not sure that fear of pain, and fear of dying, are the same thing for most animals. For example: Humans interpret a serious injury as cause for alarm; but I’m not convinced that the other animals make that connection; that they react instinctively to pain/injury without thoughts as to where it might lead . However, this is COMPLETE conjecture on my part.
So, how much choice (freedom to choose) do you think we really have? Does 3 possibilities equal 3 possible choices. This is not a trick question?
You wrote, “Perhaps the only thing that is lost at death is self-awareness? Sleep is pretty similar.” In the sense that we’ve lost awareness, I assume so; but of course, no one awakens from death, or do they😉
I’m glad that you find my thoughts helpful. One of the codes I live by is what the Buddha (supposedly*) said to his disciples on his death bed, ‘Do not take as truth anything anyone, including me, tells you, find out for yourself.’ I think this is good advise; because one cannot truly embrace what they have not found out, for themselves, to be true/useful/???
Take care of yourself,
* I say supposedly, because I doubt anyone knows what the Buddha actually said, or taught, at all; since it was 300 years after his death before his followers descendants committed to text what was passed down to them.
….. johnNovember 30, 2024 at 11:01 am #439825shinnenParticipantHi Danny,
There is actually a meditation designed to remind us of our mortality. I believe the assumption is that realizing this will set us free. Those who teach it say that it is critical that one be guided by a teacher, presumably one who has gone though the process, since it, in part, focuses on the bodies deterioration in very graphic practices. It sounds pretty extreme, and I wouldn’t suggest trying it. Yes, we could, anyone of us, not be here tomorrow.
I suppose there are other universal truths, but the one I primarily focus on is annica, which is change. To my way of thinking, coming to grips with the many many repercussions of constant change helps us to see deeply into the nature of reality, including our own mortality. It’s a slow process, examining the ways that change affects our lives, and very far reaching wrt to how we see ourselves, others, and the world around us; but, requires little more than looking at the everything from an impartial perspective. It is one of the three marks of existence, in Buddhism; and again, to my way of thinking explains the other two, anatta – no self, and dukkha – suffering;. Anatta, because, if change is constant, how can we have a non changing self (identity); and suffering because, as I see it, much of the worlds suffering is the result of our refusal to accept change as natural and unavoidable. Oops, I didn’t intend to go this far.
… john
November 29, 2024 at 4:46 pm #439812shinnenParticipantHi Anita,
I don’t know who originally said, “I am the ephemeral seeking the eternal.” It just occurred to me, out of the blue, many moons ago.
…. john
November 29, 2024 at 4:34 pm #439811shinnenParticipantHi Helcat,
It’s not really a character in my book, just me musing. I suspect that I fear the fear, more than I fear death itself. As the old expression goes, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. I firmly believe this. I also think that knowing that you’re not afraid of dying is a great great thing, a very very freeing thing. I’ve read that the fear of death is the fear the ego has of disappearing, and that the animals, other than us, do not have this fear. It sounds reasonable; but, obviously, I have no idea if it’s true. I think you’re a very mature lady. And you now have a friend in their 80’s.
….. john
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