Hi all,
I was sorry to hear of Jimmy Carter’s death today. He was a genuinely good human being.
… john

Hi Anita,
Clarify it for me? Not really. My suspicion, and it’s only a suspicion, is that people don’t fully appreciate what is given to them readily. They appreciate it more if they have to work (or ask) to get it. This is conclusion from what I’ve seen.
…. john

Hi Arden,
It’s my observation that helpful people are often not appreciated for there efforts.
It’s a strange phenomenon, but it seems like those who do not offer to help are more respected, or sought after,
than those who go out of their way to do so. Perhaps the person who needs help appreciates it
more from some who does not offer it. It’s very odd.
….. john

Hi Helcat,
I’m not so sure I fear death; I think it’s more that I wonder how it will go, when it comes to my turn.
I do love life though. I often find myself saying, “I’m going to miss this place.”; especially when
I’m outside on a walk in the woods, or riding my bike.
I saw a movie, a long time ago, starring Omar Sharif, where he play a tribal chieftan.
In the only scene I remember, he said to his second in command, “When I die, turn me to the wind.” I get that.
Doomed because they’re lgbtq. That’s the fault of their upbringing, and or religion.
If you want to ask me question as to how I feel about death, go right ahead; I’m just not sure how I feel about it.
I do know that I DO NOT want to go as Dylan Thomas’ poem recommends …
“Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”
“I’m glad that you have found a place where you can have open honest discussions.”
Well, the court’s out on that one.
I didn’t mean to suggest that you must share your letter; it may be that it’ll work if you burn it alone; I don’t know.
I worked at the local distress center for many years; and one of the things they told us was to encourage callers to
express their rage, fear, anger, disgust, you name it; the reason being that when you express these feelings to someone
else, they all of a sudden become REAL, not just a manifestation of your mind, that festers and rots; but real, and open to examination; so then the healing can begin. I’m just throwing this out there. I have no reason to believe that it actually works. And of course, one wants to be judicious as whom they share these feelings with, so ……
Of course you have trouble trusting people, we all do. No one wants to pull down their pants in public, so to speak;
one never knows what kind of reception they’ll get to exposing their inner-most sensitive feelings.
Suffering as a weakness, yes, especially men. Absolutely, the media is all about hype. I don’t watch movies or television shows to immerse myself in real life; I do it to get away from it.
Ah, the Denial of Death, it’s a very insightful read. Unfortunately, I was not ready to hear it at the time. Do be wary!
Indeed, growing up on a farm is a real lesson about birth and death. I guess when dying is a constant risk, one learns to adjust to it, as you have? I helped a girlfriend’s father stick and shave a pig when I was 16. (I had been a city boy, up until the year before.) I won’t describe it; I’m sure you know how it goes. It traumatize me!
You remind me of my wife, her family and friends are what her world revolves around. She’s a VERY good woman.
To be honest I don’t know much about the Tibetan Book of the Dead. So, it’s readable eh? I suppose my whole adult life
has been, in different ways, a preparation for dying. When you’re my age, you’ve lost many of your friends and relatives.
However, I suspect that I’m still in the ‘Death is what happens to others.’ mode. I’m very healthy and have never had any life
threatening experiences. We’ll see what happens when that occurs.
“I think that there is more than one way to develop compassion ……. I believe that it requires human connection to temper the experience.” Would you like to elaborate on that?
I doubt that I have the depth of compassion that you see in your friend. I suspect you might be confusing my openness with understanding about why others suffer. That is really not the case. “But I would suggest that your perspective and training helped you to suffer less from the experience than others might. What do you think?” Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head.
I’m glad you get something out of what I’ve learned; as I have learned from what you say. For years and years I have accumulated bits and pieces of discoveries and insights, almost never speaking of them; but our discussions have helped me to see how some of them fit together.
Thanks.
…. john

Hi Helcat,
Yes, I get it. I don’t struggle so much with when to share, but what to share. I like to explore why people do what they do, or believe what they believe; and sometimes my questions are not well received; for a whole lot of reasons, I imagine. Years ago (20+) I belonged to a discussion forum, but it seemed like most people were more interested in convincing others of their point of view, rather than engaging in open, honest, discussion; so I stopped posting. This is new for me.
Short term discomfort, yes. I haven’t had much of that, probably because I haven’t had any majour upsets in life, certainly not of the kind you have experienced. To be honest, any of the problems I’ve had to deal with, have been entirely self inflicted, so I’m very lucky in that regard.
Kudos for having made progress in forgiving your mother.
“I think that I went from embracing my suffering and being buried by it, to rejecting and avoiding my suffering. Neither way is healthy. Perhaps a more reasonable approach is to acknowledge it?” Yes, well, I don’t know what the answer to that one would be. For sure, neither one sounds healthy. I suppose simply acknowledging it would work. There’s an old practice where a person writes a note, perhaps to their abuser, listing the feelings of repulsion, anger, hatred, misery, disappointment, betrayal, fear, etc that they’ve experienced; then inviting close friends who know about it, and holding a ceremony whereby they burn it; which apparently helps to rid them of those feelings and move on with their lives. Just a suggestion.
I agree, the duration of suffering is important. Thirty years ago, or more, I read a book called, “The Denial of Death” by Ernest Becker; which launched me on a ~5 year period of ‘mind’ depression. It’s exceptionally well written, and very convincing. It’s premise is that (all) human activity is geared toward denying the reality of one’s death (of which the author contends, most people are unaware). What I learned from it, aside from what the author intended, was that, a short period ruminating on one’s problem(s) may produce useful answers; long term rumination rarely produces anything other than depening one’s despair. When I was young, I got caught up in the romantic aspects of tragedy, Romeo and Juliet, the hero going through great suffering, etc. It seemed like movies, books, society, characterized suffering as something grand, profound, noble, magnificent. Well, I didn’t like suffering, and I didn’t find it elevating, grandiose, noble, or romantic. Having said that though, I believe that great suffering is necessary to becoming wise. In our temple there is a statue of the Buddha, and his hands indicate two mudras, wisdom and compassion. At first I thought the message to be that wisdom and compassion are the two most important qualities for becoming awakened. Then one day, it dawned on me that they’re the same thing; that without compassion there can be no wisdom and without wisdom there can be no true compassion. And, in my opinion, the only way of becoming compassionate is through suffering. But of course, suffering doesn’t necessarily result in compassion; it can have all sorts of negative consequences.
I’m not sure that tremendous suffering is a natural result of living.
I don’t recall pointing out your avoidance, so I’m not sure what you mean.
“It is human nature to be afraid of pain though. Perhaps I am afraid of being overwhelmed by it again?” Yes, quite so. I certainly would be. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. No one would want to go through that again.
……john

Keats, in his famous poem, said, “Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.”

Hi Helcat,
Yes, you’re right, there was no ill intent. Over the years I have realized that I have a tendency to explore areas that make others feel uncomfortable. And I do NOT want to do that. “I think that it might be hard for some people to practice stepping back from emotions regardless of intent, depending on their emotional regulation skills.” This is exactly to what I was referring. It is my way of life, to step back, as you put it; but it’s not for everyone, and I don’t want to suggest that others should adopt this practice.
Yes, I understand that you might want to ‘undo’ what others have taught you. My mother taught me many valuable lessons, but also many that I realized, later in live, were no longer true, if they ever were. However, these were very minor things, not at all to the same degree, I sense, that your mother misled you, ‘dropped the ball’, as they say. I am positive that I haven’t the slightest idea about what sort of hell you went through. And yes, we all suffer, but not to the same degree; some suffer much more deeply and profoundly than others; and I can’t even begin to imagine what you went though. This is not an overstatement; I really can’t. It’s good though, that your trust in the therapist bore fruit.
I’m sure that your son is in good hands, and will NOT have to live through the punishment you have. It seems to me that children from abused parent(s) go one of two ways, they either pass on the abuse to ‘their’ children, or make damn sure that their kids do not have to go the same route as they. You obviously belong to the latter group.
…. john
P.S. Yes, if you want to continue any part of any conversation via email, feel free to do so. I think you have my email address.