Dear Anita,

Do you remember when I commented about N’s lack of humor, and it still sounds superficial that I say it but to put it into perspective, last night I laughed more with M and the friends I met than I can ever remember laughing with N. I would love for my partner to be someone I can dance and laugh with, but I also want to be careful to not have too many standards/expectations.

Seaturtle

Dear Anita,
<p class=”p1″>“And an obsession cannot get satisfied with logic. I don’t want to fuel this obsession, if that’s what it is.”</p>

• I hope I haven’t crossed into obsession. I am aiming towards the direction of not entertaining thoughts of him, and although I’ve made a lot of progress I think I can give myself grace as to those thoughts still surfacing. I will do my best to keep mindful of these thoughts and not partake and know it will slowly vanish. I’ve experienced losing a love before and I remember the pain but I also remember that it did pass/fade and I trust this will too in its right timing. But I can “discuss N only in the context of you understanding yourself more.”

• I want to acknowledge your message about the two reasons the ship has sailed for you. I agree

<p class=”p1″>“- I do not recommend (lol) volunteering to get stuck in anyone’s web of contempt. I grew up stuck in a web of contempt (my mother’s)- NOT FUN!”</p>

• Did you ever fall into a relationship with a person who showed you the same contempt as your mother?

<p class=”p1″>“- I am here for this journey of yours”</p>

• I am happy to read this 🙂

<p class=”p1″>“- I think that F recognized that N is similar to himself, and this why F- who discouraged you from having boyfriends previously- encouraged your relationship with N. Andin regard to the tiny little plant popping out of the earth, it is you, Seaturtle, popping out and growing big time!”</p>

• I hadn’t thought of F being aware of their similarity but now that I recall some conversations I can see that is true.
• Dear Retroactive awareness, I am excited for you to become “active”
• So my dad may not approve of a partner for me that he doesn’t understand? It may be a fantasy but I feel my dad will support someone I choose, proof of that is actually a relationship I had at 18 with a guy opposite to my dad in many ways and was 24. I recognize the age gap now but at 18 it didn’t feel far. Anyways my dad agreed to spend time with him alone when he wanted to get to know my dad, and once I turned 18 my dads restrictions suddenly stopped. He suddenly no longer cared where I was or how long I was gone. That is unless it was too my mothers home for what felt like too long to him.  Now that I recall, He would accuse me of using him quite often. If I spent too long at my moms he said he felt like he was just a bank to me… and there is a similarity here with N too. When it happened with two people, I started to wonder if it was me, leading to the “am I a narcissist”aka “is it me and I’m blind and don’t know how to love” question.

Seaturtle

Dear Anita,

“- yes, it’d be sticky and stressful to get caught in a spider-web of contempt.”

• As I read this I again foresaw the potential feelings it would cause. “sticky” and eating at my energy, it would definitely be a low vibrational space to enter and I would feel this trying to pull me down, aware or not, very sticky.

“As far as N’s maturity, M is correct: he acts immaturely, at least post-breakup.”

• Noticing that I see myself get defensive whenever ‘I sense that something suggests’ (my personal bias) that N was mature in the relationship. Suggesting that I left a good situation, makes me feel self doubt. I am not saying this to impact how you phrase things I am just stating some self awareness.

I wrote: “A Teflon person like N and F, they claim to be simple, proud of their lack of needs, yet this is a complexity in itself..“- “lack of needs” and you replied: “? I am at a loss here.”

• They are proud of their ability to teflon. For example if I said something negative to N, whether it was that I don’t appreciate how he is late, or that I don’t like his outfit (I didn’t say things like this to him but I am trying to say whether the negativity was constructive or not it was tefloned) he would ignore my negative comment and continue with his day, aka teflon it. Whether that meant ignoring a rude comment (a positive teflon) or ignoring how his his use of the c-word made me feel (a negative teflon). And not only would he teflon it, but I think, he would be proud of his tefloning, proud he didn’t allow it to make him feel anything or affect his actions, proud he didn’t give anyones perceptions any control over him, including looking inward.

“- this has been N’s MO all along, hasn’t it? You’d tell him (as kindly and well-intentioned as can be): you are X (X being something requiring improvement), and his response: you are X!.. not mature (pre-breakup)”

• Most of the time yes. I want to change my perspective on what a lifetime partner will look like, both lower and higher my standards for this person. One that is higher, is I desire someone who can look within when I make a comment about their intentions or views, I don’t want to expect them to see things the same way as I do, but I want them to have the ability to express their perspective, if they do not agree with mine. Another higher standard, is I want someone who is not afraid to be their genuine self with me, just raw with their thoughts and comments, as opposed to someone who is trying to be something, whether it is politically correct, or humorous, or any sort of motive other than authentically how they think and feel. They don’t have to be perfect at expressing this as I am still learning to be completely honest with myself, but N showed me what it was like to be with a partner who was not willing to even admit they were not being honest with themselves. Someone who knows why they are doing something, not just working a job to follow societies instructions, I want someone brave enough to bring something to the world rather than just want to be part of it. I am craving honest conversation after a lack with N. A lack probably pre-dating N.

“giving me the opportunity to correct and see you better.”

I have patience for this, and at least like to think that I can sense/see when someone is at least trying, which is just as good.

“gave me the opportunity to open my 3rd eye wider. You made me a wiser person, wiser than I was, that is.”

• Ditto 🙂

“– this fits with what you shared earlier, that you were an obedient child/ daughter.”

• I was until I wasn’t. My dad was so strict about what I wore, what I watched, who I spent my time with and how much. I was  told to change my clothes, in middle school and early highschool, if the clothes were flattering on me. I am saying even jeans and a sweater…the straight jeans, not even super tight, were too flattering from behind, he whispered it to my mom and she asked me to change (not agreeing with him but pretending she did). I began changing my clothes at school and was caught a couple times when my mom brought me lunch once and I didn’t have time to change back, I didn’t get in trouble for that but she definitely looked me up and down. “Disobedient.” I had my first boyfriend at 17 and my dad calculated the amount of hours I spent and if it came friday and he asked me to go out and do something, my dad would say no, based on if he was feeling the amount of hours were excessive or not. He once told me I had 7 hours a week… So I began to lie about my location. Then he tracked my phone, so I would leave my phone at friends house to go to a movie with my boyfriend. My dad told me I was “disobedient,” in many difference ways. Again not seeing me at all, that I did my best to obey but I did have a limit I thought he was ridiculous and I would prefer the discipline, usually grounded from my phone or leaving the house.

“- his housecleaning sessions were about him being self centered and selfish, not about you being these things.”

• And so were his outfit inspections, because god forbid he be uncomfortable in his own house.

“- there are excellent exercises in doing just that, part of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). There are worksheets on the topic available online (I just checked).”

• I would like to do this. I have been attempting, with mild energy, to find therapy here. But I have this overwhelming feeling around it, of having to catch them up on my life.

“living with F, you tried to reach into F’s closed heart chakra, soften the rough interior there and remove the Teflon (maybe you forgot those efforts on your part). Fast forward, Teflon-minded N (with heart chakra difficulties) reminded you of F, awakening your motivation (hence the attraction) to reach out into N’s heart chakra, and remove his Teflon.”

• I am sure I have forgot some efforts I made to remove teflon, I can remember a few still, but F, when I made these attempts his response was as if he deserved it. Like I recognized his stress in meal prepping, so I meal prepped for him and instead of feeling my love he just acted like I owed that to him. Discouraging me from trying to do it again. The housecleaning was then all the things he deserved that I did not do.

” I think that N was/ is emotionally numb chronically, and his way of taking breaks from his chronic numbness is to put himself and others in situations that are physically risky.”

• I think so too. The other day I was thinking back to when I told him I loved him. I remember the day so clearly, I was shopping at michaels for some christmas decorations to brighten up his apartment. That morning was going to be our Christmas together before individually going to see our families. The night before I made him an apron, I collected these iron-on patches that reminded me of him and decided to put them all together on an apron, he is a really good cook (so is F, which was a strange similarity between them…) That night I decided to spell out, “I love you” on the apron, I obviously did love him, look what I was making him, that night I decided that I loved him. The next day, at Michaels, I was trying to decided how I was going to deliver this message, I wanted to tell him before he opened the gift. I decided that it would be accurate to tell him that I was falling in love with him, and as I was in that process I loved him. It may seem a strange way to say it, but my reasoning was that I couldn’t conclude that I was “in love” with him. I loved him like I love my friends and I was attracted to him, which made it a beyond friend love relationship. When I said that I was falling in love with him, and that I loved him, his face lit up and he responded “I love you too, I waited for you to say it first so not to pressure you.” In the moment and in the relationship, I saw that as a sweet response. But now that I know him better, my retrospective awareness wonders if that was really why he hadn’t told me he loved me, before me, it wasn’t to spare my feelings as he so kindly phrased it, it was out of fear that he chose not to say it before… his emotional numbness was there from the beginning but I couldn’t see it, it took feeling it after two years for me to see it. I can only imagine the greatness in a future relationship with a partner who can share emotions with me. F and N both told me that was too much to ask, so I did my best to lower my needs.

“- it’s hard for an emotionally numb person to compliment and flirt in any way that comes across as natural. When he tried, it came across icky.”

• Exactly, “unnatural.” It was moments like these that he would say something that was as if it were a performance and the performance was not even geared towards me.

“- because for him, being chronically numb… love is not a feeling…???”

• Exactly.

“We communicated for so long, often very long posts, that we.. or I end up going in circles sometimes. For example, on Oct 19 last year, I wrote about the “Teflon Mind (TM)” in regard to N. Fast forward to yesterday, March 7, I was back to the same concept, calling it “chronically numb“, going full circle”

• I see what you are saying. I like to see it as more of an upward spiral, it is like reading a dense book, and every time you re-read it you understand more, and recall things that stuck with you. Calling it “chronically numb” feels more satisfying to me because it sounds more unacceptable than Teflon Mind. Chronically Numb is more of what it felt like to me, “chronic,” he is not changing, a part of what Teflon Mind doesn’t quite capture for me. But anyways, I see that going in circles is beneficial to me, not to you, so I don’t wan to take you into circles with me. I may have some circles to still complete. However, since our text conversation, then having two weeks where I allowed my thoughts to consume me, it has brought me to a place of wanting to recognize my thoughts and not participate. I am on a new journey to let go, and cleanse my psyche of him, instead of allowing myself to regress.

Your whole last post copy and pasted:

“suddenly, this N guy appears in my mind and It’s like I had a vision of ripping a green vine off a branch, as if it was premature, and not ready to be discarded, and I listened to that vision and decided to give N one more chance” (July 29, 2023)-

– suddenly, this N guy appeared in your mind, and it was like you had a vision of making wine out of sour grapes?

The sour grapes being F’s/N’s inability to connect with you positively and genuinely?

In the image, it was premature to give up on creating a positive, genuine connection with F by proxy of N (N as a substitute for F), so you decided to give F one more chance (by proxy of N), and you ended up with an unpleasant tasting wine…?

• The vision wasn’t grapes, it was like a tiny little plant popping out of the earth that I was about to tear out of the ground before it could grow into… something that I thought could be fruitful. It is possible it was a second chance to F.. very possible.

Seaturtle

Dear Anita,

“We see (3rd eye) when calm, not when under the influence of stress.”

• I thought this would be a good place to start, from your post on February 28th. Ever since the text exchange I feel like stress/worry was slowly encroaching on my third eye, but it took me 11 days to realize this, from the conversation on the 19th until March 1st. The realization came with the help of two people. The family I nanny for, both parents are very down to earth and kind people, during my lunch and the child’s nap I spoke with the dad and he told me he could sense I was in pain, I explained the stress of my things at my ex’s and he offered to help me go get my stuff if needed. I appreciated this but I decided if I was to do that I would have my friend P come with me. That day I concluded in my head that I needed my passport. Still unaware of where my pain was coming from I thought the solution was to show up at N’s house for my things, thinking this would bring me the conclusions I needed and relieve my anxiety about “getting my things.” I thought it was my things that was making me ache. P agreed to go with me on Sunday. (It still being Friday the 1st at this point. So first person to help me on my way to discover how to solve my pain was the dad I work for, realizing where the pain was, around that text exchange…”my things.”
• That same night, my roommate, M, became the second person to help me discover further how to solve this pain. I told her about my plan to show up at N’s, and she said something that helped my third eye to waken. She pointed out, if that text exchange made me feel that badly for over the past week, that she witnessed, then why would the solution be to see him? She said “If you go to see him you will forever remember the way he looks at you and it will just be another image you will have to work hard to get rid of.” She also said she didn’t judge me if I did go to his home but that “you are entering his territory and that seems dangerous to me.” Her pointing these things out joilted part of my third eye awake, what was I thinking? Enter N’s territory so that he could show me more contempt? The idea of not seeing him again, relieved me… that was when I decided getting my passport was not worth it, the hassle of getting a new one is less stressful to me than risking seeing him. My roommate also said “the text exchange showed his maturity, but it was also you initiating it, you entering places for him to harm you.” This hit my hard, me putting me in those situations, it was under my control to do this. I felt empowered when I realized the control I have over him harming me… Thank goodness for M.

“- what do you see when you “look” at me via the computer screen?”

• I like this question. However I will look forward to respond when my third eye is completely awake again soon, because I want to do the answer justice 

“he healthier I am, the less complex and simpler I become”

• At the moment it seems my life was much simpler before I met N, yet meeting him introduced me to more of my complexities. I am curious the difference in blissful simplicity and true simplicity. A Teflon person like N and F, they claim to be simple, proud of their lack of needs, yet this is a complexity in itself..

I wrote: “If there wasn’t better then I’d still rather be single than with him“ and you responded “- remember this realization next time you forget it.”

• This is hard for me to remember when tired…third eye must rest sometimes right? So when it rests, how do I remember this, when only the children are awake, sacral and heart. I assume over time of the repetition, the third eye repeating to the children over and over until absorbed.

I wrote I feel guilty that I couldn’t be the love he needed in his life, and you responded “I hope that this guilt is not great, and that it will shrink over time and be no more.”

• I hope it will shrink as well and believe it will. However the guilt is great, it is something that took over me the last week, triggered by his messages. Probably triggered in the relationship… he told me before that I didn’t listen. I remember when he said this how unseen I felt, because I really believe that I do listen. F told me I didn’t listen too, prior to the “house-cleaning.” It feels so far from who I am that it confuses me into thinking I don’t know myself, that I am blind and my third eye is wrong. I do listen.

I wrote “one day I wanna hear more about what it was like to do what you are doing. I thank you, because I need this, someone who cares to see me as much as they can. And you are that person right now (heart emoji, and leaf emoji because this feels very natural)“ and you responded “- it makes my day reading this!!! (a huge snow flakes emoji… it is snowing here right now, and the snowflakes are huge!)”

• This put a smile on my face  huge snow-flakes makes me wonder where! My grandma texted me the other day about lots of snow in WA, she is from Hawaii and not used to this weather there I hope she can find joy in the large snowflakes too!

I wrote “This is interesting because as mentioned above, having a parent who shamed your authenticity led us to question what our authenticity was. Creating this desire to understand ourselves“and you responded “- in all our communication, I never felt so similar to you, having so much in common.”

• This brings me joy and understanding as to why you see me so well. Clearly I am still impacted by this and still question myself, given the past week or so.

“- I didn’t share this in your thread.. how do you know I have a partner?”

• I can’t remember where I read this, I thought it was my thread but perhaps it wasn’t. Towards the beginning of this thread, as I was curious about this site and you I was waiting for your response one day and recognized on the main page your name was in quite a few different conversations. I went to one maybe two and read very little as there is so much dialogue happening and I felt I was intruding on another persons conversation. It could have been then when I saw you write that you had a partner but I don’t know anything further than that.

“- people would look like infants, the age of zero bias.”

• I thought about this further yesterday as I read “the untethered soul.” It says “Take a moment to examine the difference between your experience of the outside world and your interactions with the mental world. When you’re just thinking, you’re free to create whatever thoughts you want in your mind…This inner world is an alternate environment that is under your control. The outside world, however, marches to its own laws…The mental manipulation of the outer world experience allows you to buffer reality as it comes in…You re-create the world within your mind because you can control your mind whereas you can’t control the world.” When I read this, I thought about how when I nanny this 18 month year old, me and her parents are telling her “that is a tree” “this is yellow” “that is hot, this is cold.” From my understanding our formative years are creating this inner world… Now as an adult, I am attempting to undo some of the inner world that was created incorrectly/misleading… right? What would happen if a child grew up with no one telling them labels, I suppose they would create their own inner world anyways right because that is a human trait. Is the world too over stimulating for us if we don’t label things and instead just move from experience to experience? I imagine entering another world that is completely new, new senses. I heard once on a podcast, this girl sees her life as this; (‘paraphrasing’) ‘I was once a celestial being, and God approached me and asked how I would like to go to this place called earth for a millisecond of time (unquantifiable in our language) and have a human experience with a huge range of emotions and sensations, and I said absolutely!” I wonder what you think about this, I like philosophizing this type of thing to put my life in perspective so that I can appreciate it and not waste my time here.

– I am not the same person I was before communicating with you. I see more of me because of you.

– This is amazing, I wonder what more you see now?

 “actually, I watched a lot of standup comedy during quarantine, (YouTube videos, not TV)!”

• This is a bees knees moment!

next I will respond to your reply on March 5th, yesterday. Then with some more potential realizations, ah-ha moments I have had recently.

Seaturtle

Dear Anita,

I read your post and appreciate everything you said. However I am still exhausted after another bad sleep. I didn’t have bad dreams but I did wake up several times. This morning I started reading my book again “the untethered soul.” It talks about being a witness to the thoughts in your head. I think it has taken me this long, two weeks since the text exchange to pull myself out of my thoughts and see that they are not me. I feel myself leaving the exhaustion but I will be back here tomorrow to respond, with my waking third eye after a good sleep.

have a good night Anita, thank you

seaturtle

Dear Anita,

I feel bad for my anxiety and I feel also anxious you will be disappointed that I am doubting myself so much and not confident Seaturtle. I do think these thoughts are because of the text message exchanges and I also think my anxiety is a mixture of the thoughts and bad sleep do to these lucid dreaming nights.

Dear Anita,

I’ve had some more clarity, I know where my fear/ regret comes from. I fear that I should have  not ended things the way that I did. The day before the breakup I was hopeful of his awareness that he didn’t know how he came across, but when I shared that with you you pointed out the gaslighting technique there. As more clarity came to me and after reading your message of reasons to end the relationship with N, I don’t understand why I felt the need to end things so quickly rather than have a full conversation. I just wonder how that conversation would have gone and if him hearing me say I was considering breaking up and more clear as to why since I had more realizations after our dinner two nights before. I wonder if he would have heard what I was saying and felt the urgency to be more aware of his feelings, feelings he denied, passive aggression that he had previously denied and gaslighted me about.

I know I did try sooo many times in the relationship to work things out in my head and in conversation, that whole second year being together. But I think all that exhaustion really caught up with me when you validated my feelings of him gaslighting my feelings. I remember seeing a trail back to all the times he had.

But realizing how I went wrong in the relationship and moments I didn’t express myself the best way… ever since his text that I don’t know what love is… I interpreted that as him saying he would have stuck by me through anything but I gave up on him. And I feel a lot of guilt over that and it has made me really question myself. Question if I did try my best and make me worry that if I could go back I would have given him more of a chance to get better. I’ve had vivid dreams, bad sleep and high anxiety the past week or more over this. Recently When I see the parents I nanny for argue, I wonder “did I give up over an argument that I will just have again in another relationship?” That reminds me of his good qualities and the things I “gave up.” The good parts of him I broke up with that now I will just want in another relationship. I have been in a thought loop of this anxiety and I think the dreams are because of that.

I feel bad for having these thoughts on top of having them. I feel badly and I wonder if I should reach out to talk, but he said he doesn’t want to waste more energy on me. I can’t tell if this is my third eye being closed or if it is a new realization of it. It is very painful for me to think that if only I had given him the opportunity for a full conversation, rather than ending it so quickly out of fear that he would gaslight and confuse me, that maybe it would have worked out. I just wish I had the confidence in my strength to hold my own if he did try, but maybe the previous dinner when he excused himself from everything by saying he doesn’t know how he comes across, maybe that was him attempting to understand himself and I gave up before he was able to try and make a change. Two nights prior to the breakup was the first time I brought up the term gaslighting, and although I’d tried to explain it prior maybe that time he would have understood.

But then I think about how he didn’t put much effort into talking me out of breaking up he pretty much just left, but I think it may be unfair to expect someone to argue when you say it is what you want.

I think all of these thoughts have been stuck in my head since texting him about my things and they are just now coming out. I feel icky and afraid I made a mistake. But maybe this is all just the sacral (child) acting out because of how much I miss his physical presence. I hope I didn’t make a huge mistake and that he is the “one that got away” as I feared he would be, the fear that kept me in the relationship the last year I struggled and did my best to communicate. What if I stuck with it… this thought is eating me on the inside and I either need to reach out to him and see if he will hear me out; or I need to squash this potential regret somehow.

I apologize for the word vomit, these have been my thoughts I’ve been fighting but now that they are so clear and even convincing, I am afraid of them and don’t know what to do with them.

Anxious Seaturtle