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Telling the difference between gut and fear in relationships

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  • #428556
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,
    <p class=”p1″>“And an obsession cannot get satisfied with logic. I don’t want to fuel this obsession, if that’s what it is.”</p>

    • I hope I haven’t crossed into obsession. I am aiming towards the direction of not entertaining thoughts of him, and although I’ve made a lot of progress I think I can give myself grace as to those thoughts still surfacing. I will do my best to keep mindful of these thoughts and not partake and know it will slowly vanish. I’ve experienced losing a love before and I remember the pain but I also remember that it did pass/fade and I trust this will too in its right timing. But I can “discuss N only in the context of you understanding yourself more.”
    • I want to acknowledge your message about the two reasons the ship has sailed for you. I agree

    <p class=”p1″>“- I do not recommend (lol) volunteering to get stuck in anyone’s web of contempt. I grew up stuck in a web of contempt (my mother’s)- NOT FUN!”</p>

    • Did you ever fall into a relationship with a person who showed you the same contempt as your mother?

    <p class=”p1″>“- I am here for this journey of yours”</p>

    • I am happy to read this 🙂

    <p class=”p1″>“- I think that F recognized that N is similar to himself, and this why F- who discouraged you from having boyfriends previously- encouraged your relationship with N. Andin regard to the tiny little plant popping out of the earth, it is you, Seaturtle, popping out and growing big time!”</p>

    • I hadn’t thought of F being aware of their similarity but now that I recall some conversations I can see that is true.
    • Dear Retroactive awareness, I am excited for you to become “active”
    • So my dad may not approve of a partner for me that he doesn’t understand? It may be a fantasy but I feel my dad will support someone I choose, proof of that is actually a relationship I had at 18 with a guy opposite to my dad in many ways and was 24. I recognize the age gap now but at 18 it didn’t feel far. Anyways my dad agreed to spend time with him alone when he wanted to get to know my dad, and once I turned 18 my dads restrictions suddenly stopped. He suddenly no longer cared where I was or how long I was gone. That is unless it was too my mothers home for what felt like too long to him.  Now that I recall, He would accuse me of using him quite often. If I spent too long at my moms he said he felt like he was just a bank to me… and there is a similarity here with N too. When it happened with two people, I started to wonder if it was me, leading to the “am I a narcissist”aka “is it me and I’m blind and don’t know how to love” question.

    Seaturtle

    #428557
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

     
    <p class=”p1″>As I have been observing my thoughts more rather than take part in them I recognize some things about myself. I notice sometimes when I’m having a good time I worry the good time will end or that I will make it awkward and ruin it. Do you remember when we spoke about that dancing idea, when you said to be an influencer and I said something about having a social dance place that wasn’t a club cause it would be no hard alcohol at least? So last night I met some new people, M told me to trust her she met some cool people so I went out and I met this friend group who we ended up just dancing all night with and it was so much fun to dance like that. I do love to dance. And her friends were so fun and inclusive. There were moments I was dancing just carefree then suddenly I’d have thoughts of wondering what I looked like and not wanting to ruin the moment by losing my ability to dance… like losing the groove and then ruining the connection with the person. I wonder what this is all about, where those thoughts are coming from. A thorn perhaps?</p>
     

    Seaturtle

    #428559
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

     

    Do you remember when I commented about N’s lack of humor, and it still sounds superficial that I say it but to put it into perspective, last night I laughed more with M and the friends I met than I can ever remember laughing with N. I would love for my partner to be someone I can dance and laugh with, but I also want to be careful to not have too many standards/expectations.

    Seaturtle

    #428560
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    I hope that you are having a nice Sun evening. I’ll read and reply to your recent posts Mon morning, hope you have a good night.

    anita

    #428581
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    I think I can give myself grace as to those thoughts still surfacing. I will do my best to keep mindful of these thoughts and not partake and know it will slowly vanish“- Grace, Mindfulness and Patience, the right attitude and practice combo!

    Did you ever fall into a relationship with a person who showed you the same contempt as your mother?“- no. Of all the people who were physically present in my life and with whom I interacted (unlike let’s say a historical/ political figure that caused destruction in millions of lives, including mine, but I was never in that person’s physical presence), no one bothered to put in the time and effort that my mother bothered to put into making me feel bad.

    Dear Retroactive awareness, I am excited for you to become ‘active‘”- (a face that thinks-it’s-funny emoji)

    I feel my dad will support someone I choose, proof of that is actually a relationship I had at 18…  my dad agreed to spend time with him alone when he wanted to get to know my dad“- because it flattered him that a much younger guy wanted to get to know him, to learn from him perhaps, as an admiring mentee?

    Once I turned 18, my dad’s restrictions suddenly stopped. He suddenly no longer cared where I was or how long I was gone“-it could be that he was following a rigid rule, that he was responsible to keep you away from guys only until the age of 18.

    Or, it could be that when you were a teenager living with him, while and he was divorced from your mother, there was an emotionally- incestuous element to his demands that you will be available to him (ex., that you will taken a shower before he gets back home, if I remember correctly, so that you are there for him the moment he’s back home), and to his persistent insistence that you will not wear tight jeans etc., so not to attract boys. But by the time you turned 18, he was in a new romantic relationship (with his current girlfriend..?), and that’s when he stopped being.. inappropriately possessive of you.

    If I spent too long at my mom’s he said he felt like he was just a bank to me… and there is a similarity here with N too“- I don’t know what F wanted from you.. an ever-lasting admiration, a.. kind of love that’s not appropriate for a father to demand from his daughter..?

    I notice sometimes when I’m having a good time I worry the good time will end or that I will make it awkward and ruin it. D.. last night I met some new people..  we ended up just dancing all night with, and it was so much fun to dance like that. I do love to dance… There were moments I was dancing just carefree, then suddenly I’d have thoughts of wondering what I looked like and not wanting to ruin the moment by losing my ability to dance… I wonder what this is all about, where those thoughts are coming from. A thorn perhaps?“- this could be about F’s inappropriate possessiveness of you pre-18, his attention to your clothes being too revealing= his attention to your revealed feminine body, and how awkward and self-conscious it made you feel at the time.

    Do you remember when I commented about N’s lack of humor, and it still sounds superficial that I say it“- yes, I remember, and it no longer sounds superficial to me, not when I think of N being chronically numb as the reason behind him not being able to laugh (or compliment you, or elaborate about his feelings.. or freely dance..?)

    But to put it into perspective, last night I laughed more with M and the friends I met than I can ever remember laughing with N. I would love for my partner to be someone I can dance and laugh with, but I also want to be careful to not have too many standards/expectations“- sometime, you can journal about realistic expectations from a partner vs unrealistic expectations from a partner…

    anita

     

    #428629
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    This is going to be a long post, put together with a wide open 3rd eye, wider than it ever been in context of your thread. I hope that you read it patiently and attentively. It may feel intense, so trigger warning.

    All the following quotes are from what you posted. I will be adding the boldface feature to the quotes.

    Oct 11, 2023:  “I completely feel the same way about there being different soulmates in our lives in different forms. I have found this in a friend, my sisters and my mom. But something interesting I’ve noticed is that these soulmates can sometimes be distracted with other things and lead me to not feeling that connection at times. My best friend is dating someone who I would not put up with…  I don’t feel that soulmate connection with her at the moment, which hurts my heart. Same with my sisters and mom, it comes and goes“-

    – there is an old, strong core emotional experience within you: feeling alone and disconnected, as in I am alone, there’s no one with me/ for me, no love for me. This core experience makes you intolerant of normal fluctuations in the level of emotional connection with the people in your life. It is as if you expect the same level of connection at al times, an unrealistic expectation born out of the core experience I mentioned in this paragraph. You emotionally overreact to normal disconnections by feeling acutely alone/ disconnected (lonely).

    July 29-30, 2023: “N doesn’t really laugh at my jokes, and sometimes he doesn’t even hear or get them at all. And in those moments I feel so so lonely… why do I crave to have the same sense of humor and be on the same spiritual journey. Is it just my own issues you think?”-

    – You craved N to have the same sense of humor as yours, the same spiritual journey, because otherwise you feel acutely lonely. We talked plenty about how N is too far removed from what you need in a partner, which is still true, but it is also true that your expectation to be 100% connected with another person at al times in all ways is very unrealistic, and no boyfriend/ no person can fit the bill.

    This craving for 100% alignment/ connection at all times is born out of that core experience of acute loneliness.

    Oct 6, 2023:  “I feel so alone“.

    Five months and 34 pages later, March 10, 2024: “I notice sometimes when I’m having a good time I worry the good time will end or that I will make it awkward and ruin it… last night I met some new people… we ended up just dancing all night with and it was so much fun to dance like that… There were moments I was dancing just carefree then suddenly I’d have thoughts of wondering what I looked like and not wanting to ruin the moment by losing my ability to dance… like losing the groove and then ruining the connection with the person. I wonder what this is all about, where those thoughts are coming from”-

    – I believe that these thoughts are coming from the core experience I mentioned above, that of acute and prolonged childhood/ adolescent lack of needed connection aka loneliness. Dancing you felt connected to those you danced with, then suddenly, you were afraid to lose the connection.

    Connected, you have a good time; disconnected, you have a (very) bad time.

    Within your core experience of loneliness there is a belief that you are responsible to connections coming to an end (“I will .. ruin it“, above).

    Back to July 29, 2023: “Please help me, my mind hasn’t rested in 8 months... N doesn’t really laugh at my jokes… And in those moments I feel so so lonely…  I have been dealing with these small disconnects for a long time but they keep coming back to me. OR is this all just me running away from the most genuine and loving/caring/kind/PATIENT/ would-do-anything-for-me man ?????????????? I really have been having this entire debate in my head for a straight 6-8 months now and I don’t want to waste my time… I also don’t want to be ungrateful and expect that there’s something better out there for me…why do I crave to have the same sense of humor… ?”-

    -those small disconnects were objectively small (ex., not laughing at your jokes as much as some other people do, at times), but subjectively, these disconnects feel huge because they trigger/ activate your core experience I mentioned above, that of acute and prolonged childhood/ adolescent lack of needed connection aka loneliness.

    No, N is not the most genuine, loving, caring man (we’ve discussed it and you agreed: he’s chronically numb, partly or to a large extent because of his chronic consumption of weed.. which makes him numbly-patient), and no man can be what you need him to be, so this entire debate is likely to reoccur in future relationships.

    Let’s look closer at the core experience:

    Oct 10, 2023: “My dad is a success oriented man and if I wasn’t doing things to his standards I received a very cold version of him…My partner consoles me when I have panic attacks and I have always been alone in those“- (1) A very cold version of your father (F)= a harsh disconnect. (2) You have experienced panic attacks following past disconnects, and you were alone in those.

    Oct 11, 2023: “while I lived with (F) I went through a lot of suicidal thoughts and running away attempts, never known to him because of this criticism that… I didn’t think about him and cook him dinner… My dad would accuse me of planning my showers around avoiding talking to him, or if I was upstairs when he got home I was expected to come had conversation with him (all things I felt were a wife’s place not mine as a 17 year old girl”.

    Nov 8, 2023: “His misplaced trust or expectations of me were those that he expected and never received from my mother… My mom broke his trust in many ways, and it was as if he treated my teenage years of sneaking out to parties I wasn’t allowed to go to, as if I had cheated on him in marriage… he didn’t want me around boys without parents at age 16… He also treated me like I was a (very bluntly put) like I was a slut like my mom… Before leaving to school from ages 13-18, my outfits would get checked… My dad would edit any outfit…  he told me I wasn’t allowed to wear jeans without a shirt that covered my butt… that is when I started changing at school…  At age 13 taking away the innocence of my clothing.. sexualizing me and telling me how boys would think…

    “I was 11 years old, my friends were playing outside… Before I made it outside to play, my dad stopped me and said the shorts were inappropriate and I needed to change to longer ones that reached my knees! I was so embarrassed… I was so embarrassed I decided not to go out and play anymore. This is my first memory of having suicidal thoughts... I went to the kitchen, got a knife from the drawer and went back to my room and held it to my bare chest, I remember wanting to end it right there”-

    – early on, your empathy was with F for having been repeatedly cheated on by your mother. You definitely didn’t want to be like your mother in the way she had hurt your father. But what happened was that about the time you started to physically develop into a woman (still a girl), he projected your cheating mother into you and treated you accordingly. By projecting a cheating woman into his 13 year-old daughter, he created a huge disconnect within you, a disconnect from your own self. For how can you be you when he placed the image of another person (your mother) into the mental space that you need to occupy.. so to be you?

    Your painful high school experience of being shunned and isolated added to your core experience of acute and prolonged childhood/ adolescent lack of needed connection aka loneliness.

    There’s a lot more healing that can take place in regard to this core experience, and it’s an exciting prospect, in my mind. How do you feel about it?

    anita

    #428780
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I will have time to myself tomorrow to come here and read your responses. I hope you had a good past week/weekend! Chat tomorrow 🙂

    Growing Seaturtle

    #428786
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Growing Seaturtle: I am looking forward to read from you tomorrow!

    anita

    #428816
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    “Of all the people who were physically present in my life and with whom I interacted (unlike let’s say a historical/ political figure that caused destruction in millions of lives, including mine, but I was never in that person’s physical presence), no one bothered to put in the time and effort that my mother bothered to put into making me feel bad.”

    • Of course I am now curious about this political figure and how you grew up! I don’t know if it appropriate to ask. As for your mother, looking at the glass half full, I am glad to hear no one else made you feel that way.

    “because it flattered him that a much younger guy wanted to get to know him, to learn from him perhaps, as an admiring mentee?”

    • Actually yes. If my partner wants nothing from my father, and only wants me, I am not sure how that will play out, but I will deal with it then!

    “it could be that he was following a rigid rule, that he was responsible to keep you away from guys only until the age of 18.”

    • This is what it felt like, he never had a reason that I remember making sense to me.

    “But by the time you turned 18, he was in a new romantic relationship (with his current girlfriend..?), and that’s when he stopped being.. inappropriately possessive of you.”

    • I do think he was inappropriately possessive, but I don’t think it had an affect whether or not he had a girlfriend because he treated my younger sister similarly while he was with a girlfriend. Although what is interesting and honestly so sad, he told me and my youngest sister about our outfits being inappropriate, but we have another sister in the middle of us that my dad didn’t do that with. She coped with our home life by secluding herself and binge eating, she had an eating disorder for a long time and was quite over weight because of it. I find it sad and strange that my dad did not have the same clothing rules for her. That sister brought it to my attention that he didn’t care what she wore, she asked me why once and I did not have an answer for that.

    ” I don’t know what F wanted from you.. an ever-lasting admiration, a.. kind of love that’s not appropriate for a father to demand from his daughter..?”

    • He doesn’t understand what is appropriate and what is not. I don’t think his intentions were incestuous in any way, if told that he would be stunned at the accusation. I am trying to understand where his inappropriate behavior came from, it’s like he created his own rules in his head and just believed they were correct, no question. He would never admit to fully being wrong, it’s always something with him.

    “this could be about F’s inappropriate possessiveness of you pre-18, his attention to your clothes being too revealing= his attention to your revealed feminine body, and how awkward and self-conscious it made you feel at the time.”

    • This is a good point, because the awkwardness I have felt is the same feeling when he would point something out. It has taken me many years to be able to wear clothing that flatters my body without feeling dirty and awkward.

    “yes, I remember, and it no longer sounds superficial to me, not when I think of N being chronically numb as the reason behind him not being able to laugh (or compliment you, or elaborate about his feelings.. or freely dance..?)”

    • Funny you say this, he was not able to do any of those things naturally. They all felt forced but I didn’t want him to never do it again so I just took the job of making it seem more natural by just being vulnerable back.

     

    I read the beginning of your next post and saw your warning about the length and depth so I will respond in a separate message. As I feel ready to read it I am excited.

    Seaturtle

    #428820
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    “– there is an old, strong core emotional experience within you: feeling alone and disconnected, as in I am alone, there’s no one with me/ for me, no love for me. This core experience makes you intolerant of normal fluctuations in the level of emotional connection with the people in your life. It is as if you expect the same level of connection at al times, an unrealistic expectation born out of the core experience I mentioned in this paragraph. You emotionally overreact to normal disconnections by feeling acutely alone/ disconnected (lonely).”

    • “there is an old, strong core emotional experience within you: feeling alone and disconnected, as in I am alone, there’s no one with me/ for me, no love for me.” -I can see this. In anxious states my go to is “I am alone.” In a lower vibrational state I feel loneliness in a negative way, but in the past months of trying to find wholeness within myself, reading/hearing that “I am alone” doesn’t scare me. I am alone but I have me, and when I am in my higher vibrations I am content with this. Before I met N, I lived alone for 2 years, it was hard but I did get to a place with being okay alone. My relationship with N, through me off, but I feel like I am finally reaching that place again. Not sure if this is the whole solution to this deep core experience, but it feels better than the loneliness I felt in the relationship.
    • “This core experience makes you intolerant of normal fluctuations in the level of emotional connection with the people in your life” – I don’t like the word “intolerant” because it makes me feel like it is impossible, but I know that is not what you meant. I would call it “very sensitive of normal fluctuations ….”
    • “It is as if you expect the same level of connection at al times, an unrealistic expectation born out of the core experience I mentioned in this paragraph.” -I see that I have expected this, and that at a lower vibration I do expect this. But I do know it is unreasonable. When I wrote “But something interesting I’ve noticed is that these soulmates can sometimes be distracted with other things and lead me to not feeling that connection at times,” I was saying I acknowledge there is not always a connection, but that I have the ability to see it. I saw it last night with my roommate, but that does not make me doubt my connection to her in general. What was so disappointing in the relationship with N was how often this disconnect was, it was becoming the majority of our relationship, just as it is a big proportion of my relationship with F. I see him disconnected but I feel I am becoming more and more just ok with it.
    • “You emotionally overreact to normal disconnections by feeling acutely alone/ disconnected (lonely).” – I am being careful to tell the difference between sharing my truth here and not be defensive. I am not offended I appreciate it all but I also want to honor who I believe I am. I have done this 100%, and probably still will until I release something that I am holding onto in my heart, but I do not believe I am always this way. Although, This was very present in my relationship with N, obviously. Why it was triggered with him is definitely something to explore, although like I mentioned before, the ratio of connecting to him versus not, was definitely out of balance.

    “but it is also true that your expectation to be 100% connected with another person at al times in all ways is very unrealistic, and no boyfriend/ no person can fit the bill.”

    • I agree. I try to use connecting with others in the world to fill a hole deep inside about feeling connected. I know there is nothing outside of me that can make me feel whole/connected and that needs to come from within, but how? I believe I am moving in the right direction but sometimes this retroactive awareness feels like a big lag. I want to say it is to feel connected to myself.. but then that raises the question Do I not feel connected to myself?, I have not considered this and it isn’t raising any current emotions or thoughts.

    “This craving for 100% alignment/ connection at all times is born out of that core experience of acute loneliness.”

    • I wrote the above before reading this. Loneliness is the problem so feeling connected to myself is the answer?

    “– I believe that these thoughts are coming from the core experience I mentioned above, that of acute and prolonged childhood/ adolescent lack of needed connection aka loneliness. Dancing you felt connected to those you danced with, then suddenly, you were afraid to lose the connection.”

    • A lack of needed connection from where? in childhood it makes sense this would be my parents, but as an adolescent… You know what, this makes me think of my dads restrictions on spending time with my friends. They would all be hanging out and invite me, I would want to go and my dad would say no you already hungout with them this week, or he would make me come home much earlier than the rest of them. Because I wasn’t allowed to go to so many events, I stopped getting invited. I then started to sneak out to go hiking with my friends or whatever, and I would then get grounded and miss out on seeing friends for weeks. It also doesn’t help that I was homeschooled and in a private christian school for 4 years, 4th grade-half way through 7th grade I was thrown back in to public school, where my friends were. I wasn’t allowed to watch the popular shows my friends did and that created a loneliness, my friends didn’t understand my humor (realizing the connection to N here) since I had humor from my church ok’d tv shows that public school kids did not understand.
    • At least My after school club soccer team was a good place for me to be social. Although I wasn’t allowed to hangout with all the girls and depending on the friend I had limits of time with them. I also had to call and ask my parents whenever we were gonna watch a movie and 7/10 times they said I couldn’t watch it, it was so embarrassing. It was lonely…
    • This brings me to a current realization that my roommate actually helped me see. She has really good male role models in her life, her dad is emotionally open with her and did a good job teaching his son to respect his mother and sisters. She has many male friends who are good friends, to which I have none. I realized I lack truly healthy male figures in my life, which makes the way I interact with men unhealthy. My dad told me men were for dating only, causing me to date friends in highschool and after, friends that could have just stayed friends but I thought that was the only way to keep them in my life. And my mom was obsessed with male attention, from dads on my soccer team to my own personal friends in middle/highschool that came over. I have realized I care so much about how men see me, and I think this bled into my relationship with N as well, now that I think about it. My desire for compliments… To be fair he really did not give me much to work with and to my credit I was secure enough to not need comments from him for a long time before it started to bother me. I have never really had a male figure in my life believe in me or have my back. This lack of positive male energy makes me hyper aware about what men, specifically, think about me. This is a working observation I don’t know how is fully affecting my behaviors but I know it must be.

    “Connected, you have a good time; disconnected, you have a (very) bad time.”

    • This reminds me of times when I have avoided certain parties or environments with people I didn’t connect with. Sitting to lunch with someone I cam connecting with makes a good time, but yes sitting at lunch with someone I don’t connect with is very energy consuming for me… the small talk and pointless chatter, what is the point of that.

    “Within your core experience of loneliness there is a belief that you are responsible to connections coming to an end”

    • Ooh this is very interesting. It feels like a weight off my shoulders to say it is not my fault. But I also know that it is not, with N I knew it was him disconnecting from me. But there are times I definitely blame myself.

    “No, N is not the most genuine, loving, caring man (we’ve discussed it and you agreed: he’s chronically numb, partly or to a large extent because of his chronic consumption of weed.. which makes him numbly-patient), and no man can be what you need him to be, so this entire debate is likely to reoccur in future relationships.”

    • I am feeling the impulse to stay positive after reading that you wrote “this entire debate is likely to reoccur in future relationships.”  The reason I don’t think it will is because I am on a trajectory of working to feel whole within myself and not seek a partner to fill the hole. Something I was not aware of before N. I have learned that if I don’t do the work to process past pain, then my pain will decide my future and that would be the entire debate reoccurring. I don’t want a partner to “be what [I] need him to be,” because I don’t want to seek a partner out of needing. I am happy to be alone for as long as it takes to be whole enough inside to attract a partner who is the same. Two whole people.

    “(1) A very cold version of your father (F)= a harsh disconnect. (2) You have experienced panic attacks following past disconnects, and you were alone in those.”

    • F was certainly a reason I feel disconnected. When you say “you were alone in those” do you mean I was alone in the panic attack?

     

    “But what happened was that about the time you started to physically develop into a woman (still a girl), he projected your cheating mother into you and treated you accordingly. By projecting a cheating woman into his 13 year-old daughter, he created a huge disconnect within you, a disconnect from your own self. For how can you be you when he placed the image of another person (your mother) into the mental space that you need to occupy.. so to be you?”

    • I really appreciate the time you took to formulate this analysis Anita.

    “There’s a lot more healing that can take place in regard to this core experience, and it’s an exciting prospect, in my mind. How do you feel about it?”

    • I think it is exciting as well. The bees knees lol. Interesting how closely related my desire to be seen, needing to see myself, see hatch, and then needing to feel connected to myself. It makes me feel we are really getting to my “core experience” and therefore approaching the solution 🙂
    • I want to feel connected to myself, and I do think I am on the path to doing this. I clearly want it and think my constant curiosity about myself shows me that I am trying. I feel more connected to myself when…. this is a good journaling prompt.  I feel this after I finish a piece of art and see what literally came out of me onto canvas. I feel this when who I feel I am, aligns with what others say… this one seems dangerous because it relies on others. I feel this when I acknowledge hatch.

     

    Pondering Seaturtle

    #428836
    anita
    Participant

    Dear  Pondering Seaturtle: I will read and reply Thurs morning, have a good night!

    anita

    #428839
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    I read through your two posts, and in regard to the second, I realize my strong tendency, in my analyses, to go too much in one direction or the  other, lacking a balanced/ moderate, inclusive thinking, a black-and-white/ all-or-nothing thinking which is in my way of understanding people (including you) and situations.

    I apologize for the confusion or discomfort this has caused you. I will do my best to think in a balanced way tomorrow.

    anita

    #428882
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    “Of course I am now curious about this political figure“- I was referring to Hitler, and the likes.

    I do think he (F) was inappropriately possessive, but I don’t think it had an affect whether or not he had a girlfriend because he treated my younger sister similarly while he was with a girlfriend… we have another sister… she.. was quite over weight… he didn’t care what she wore, she asked me why once and I did not have an answer for that“- seems to me that the explanation could be that F found you and your younger sister attractive and therefore, he was afraid that others (boys/ younger men) will find the two of you attractive as well, but he didn’t find your overweight middle sister attractive, so he wasn’t afraid that others will find her attractive.

    “He doesn’t understand what is appropriate and what is not. I don’t think his intentions were incestuous in any way, if told that he would be stunned at the accusation. I am trying to understand where his inappropriate behavior came from“- seems to me that his intentions were not incestuous. But he did see two of his daughters as sexually attractive women.

    This is a good point, because the awkwardness I have felt is the same feeling when he would point something out. It has taken me many years to be able to wear clothing that flatters my body without feeling dirty and awkward“- you felt dirty and awkward because your father saw you, his daughter, as a sexually attractive young woman.

    I can see this. In anxious states my go to is ‘I am alone.’ In a lower vibrational state I feel loneliness in a negative way, but in the past months of trying to find wholeness within myself… I am alone but I have me, and when I am in my higher vibrations I am content with this“- being in an anxious state and being in a lower vibrational state and lonely are synonymous; being in a higher vibrational state is synonymous with being content when alone..?

    Correction to my sentence: “This core experience (loneliness) makes you very sensitive to of normal fluctuations in the level of emotional connection with the people in your life”.

    I acknowledge there is not always a connection… What was so disappointing in the relationship with N was how often this disconnect was, it was becoming the majority of our relationship, just as it is a big proportion of my relationship with F“- I think that the frequent disconnects with N were due to his chronic numbness/ weed abuse, and that in that desert of connection, an extreme thirst for connection/ to be seen was reborn. This thirst was born with F.

    * It is not that you have unrealistic expectations for levels and consistency of connection with everyone, and will never be happy with anyone, as I expressed before, under the influence of my extreme, unbalanced thinking (to which I referred yesterday in my short post).

    Loneliness is the problem so feeling connected to myself is the answer?”- connection to oneself and connection to others are two sides of the same coin.

    this makes me think of my dads restrictions on spending time with my friends… my dad would say no you already hung out with them this week, or he would make me come home much earlier than the rest of them… home schooled… I wasn’t allowed to hang out wit all the girls.. I was lonely“- F kept you in a desert of connections, didn’t he:  none with him, too little with others..?

    You wrote ‘this entire debate is likely to reoccur in future relationships.’  The reason I don’t think it will is because I am on a trajectory of working to feel whole within myself and not seek a partner to fill the hole… I am happy to be alone for as long as it takes to be whole enough inside to attract a partner who is the same. Two whole people.”- yes, you are on a positive, pondering and growing trajectory. My pessimistic prediction was born out of the All-or-Nothing, Black and White thinking on my part.

    “F was certainly a reason I feel disconnected. When you say ‘you were alone in those’ do you mean I was alone in the panic attack?“- you shared that N was with you when you had panic attacks, trying to comfort you, and you added that you were always alone in those before.

    “I think it is exciting as well. The bees knees lol. Interesting how closely related my desire to be seen, needing to see myself, see hatch, and then needing to feel connected to myself… I want to feel connected to myself, and I do think I am on the path to doing this. I clearly want it and think my constant curiosity about myself shows me that I am trying… Pondering Seaturtle“-

    Pondering, Growing Seaturtle is The bees knees, I says!

    anita

    #431496
    seaturtle
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I have thought of you several times over the past couple weeks. A lot has happened, my sister was here for a week, I have been spending many mornings doing a course with the author of the Untethered soul, on audible. It makes me have to look within, like our conversations and I think I can only take one or the other right now. I’d like to come here to catch-up with you very soon, I am still deciding how I feel about certain recent events. N reached out, wanted to meet, then canceled and changed his mind several times till I decided to block his number and then he showed up at my apartment on Sunday. So I am still processing that, I got some closure but im starting to think closure is an illusion because it is only temporary and I wish I said other things already. I was disappointed in how I fell into a pattern with him, but at least my growth is represented by my ability to see it the following day. He does this thing where he approaches me sad and makes me feel like I want to comfort him…even if it is not telling the whole truth. For example I am so sure he’s not right for me, he is just too out of touch. But while he was here I found myself not saying things or saying things in ways that I knew he wanted to hear.. at the time I was unaware of what I was doing. Now that I know I do this if I ever see him again I will keep that in mind. He also just showed up unannounced and that was unfair to catch me off guard. Also he still claims he was joking at the store when asking me about the cash, and in that moment I realized how good of a decision I made by leaving someone so out of touch, and in so much denial. He blamed a lot of our issues on his weed used which I had no idea he was aware of cause when prompted he said he used it to self medicate anxiety so I just accepted that. He also said I was right all along of his roommate! I always told him I did not trust his roommate and sure enough he recently lied and stole from N. N kept saying he’s just too nice of a guy… that he falls for peoples lies, including mine when I told him I loved him. I think even he knows that’s self preservation thought because several times he said he wanted to hate me so bad. He got emotional but I am not sure the intentions behind the tears because the result was me not being able to tell the full truth, that I was in fact sure I made the right decision.

     

    More tomorrow when I am more conscious. I meant to come here just to check in but I ended up writing a little journal entry. Have a good night!

    Seaturtle (misses Anita)

    #431497
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Seaturtle:

    I thought about you a few moments before you submitted the above post, and a few days ago as I heard news about sea turtles being an endangered species, and I thought about you at other times.

    I have been spending many mornings doing a course with the author of the Untethered soul, on audible. It makes me have to look within, like our conversations and I think I can only take one or the other right now“- I understand.

    N reached out… He blamed a lot of our issues on his weed use… He also said I was right all along of his roommate!… I am not sure the intentions behind the tears because the result was me not being able to tell the full truth, that I was in fact sure I made the right decision“- could be that he is a lost soul, just lost.

    I am looking forward to more tomorrow, will miss you if you don’t post tomorrow, good night, Seaturtle!

    anita

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