No need to analyze, Anita. I can see any trust has been broken. I am sorry for seeming to waste your time. I know your mind is made up no matter what I say here. All I can say is that everything I’ve written here is true.

I will no longer utilize the Tiny Buddha forum.

Ryan

Hello Anita,

Hmmm… I can see how you would be skeptical, but I only insert copies of their text messages her for a bit of context. I try to give their side of my interpretation of our relationship, and felt that including snippets from our conversations may be helpful. However, now that you’ve summarized them into a post, I can see how they read like they could have been authored by the same individual.

I can assure you that I am not writing a book and my posts here are genuine. Though it is a bit mind blowing to me seeing how similar to each other they read.

Ryan

Hello TeaK,

Thank you for taking the time to reply…

Yes, I agree that is a similar-type relationship. However, I don’t feel the guilt/shame of the demise of the relationship this time. I do feel that I’m “worthy” of being loved and praised. To me, part of my stress is that I again do not feel the same way about the girl as she does for me. Perhaps this is normality in relationships, but there is a frustration in me from never quite feeling that way about another. And I tend to attract those who have suffered from bad relationships in the past.

As I’ve written before, I beat myself up when I hurt people close to me. I’ve worked quite a bit with my counselor on being more vulnerable this past year, which I incorporated into this relationship (to an extent). I do feel that I could/should have been more truthful from the start, I wasn’t sure how this relationship would progress. I would certainly feel shame if I encouraged her to accompany me on my relocation while knowing that isn’t what truly want. So, I will not give her that option.

The disillusionment of this relationship will be painful for her, which brings me no pleasure. I know that I was different from others she’s dated in the past, and that she wants to cling to those feelings of safety and security. I’ve tried to placate myself by thinking that I’ve shown her a bit of what’s possible so she’s better prepared for someone better in the future; however, I know that I’ll leave a scar that will take time to heal. Guess every relationship leaves its marks?

Ryan

Dear TeaK and Anita,

Thank you for taking the time to reply… Wanted to write a quick reply before I head to the gym.

To address your posts, TeaK. I do not know if it’s that I cannot say “no” to women. Part of me wanted to have sex because it has been quite some time since I had. While I could convince myself to the first time, there simply wasn’t a connection/attraction to her to continue to simply have sex for purely carnal or selfish reasons.

I think my issue is more that I feel a sense of guilt/shame when I hurt or disappoint women. It feels as though women see me as something that I may not always be: A good man or a better man than most. I try to live up to their expectancies but often don’t. I’m sure some of it can be traced back to not wanting to disappoint my mother, but I honestly do not know.

I did deal with anger issues with I was younger. I have never been physically violent with any woman, but I did kick a wall when I was maybe 21 after a fight with my wife at the time. I been in therapy off and on for 15+ years now, and time and work on myself and lessened the fire inside me.

Anita, yes, I have certainly felt Acute distress and despair (and continue to do so at times). There are days—or periods of time during a day—when I am in the throughs of a dark spiral and cannot find a way to stop. I’ve learned that poor sleep or undereating “feeds” these feelings, so often a good meal or simply taking a nap may help a bit.

As far as joy is concerned, it is a rare emotion. I have often been asked by counselors over the years if I feel joy, and my responses is nearly always no. While I treasure having the ability to get outside, and feel the endorphins when I go for a hike or a walk, I rarely find joy in it. I recognize that I am fortunate (blessed?) to have the physical ability to explore the world with all my senses, but there simply isn’t joy in it for me.

I’ll try to expound more later.

Ryan

Dear Anita,

Not so much “emotional mountaintops” in terms of social interaction, but more just in a general, emotional sense. It’s nothing new–dealt with these highs/lows most of my life. Some days, I feel quite good. I’ve slept well or feel a sense of excitement for the day ahead. Then, the next day I’ve done a 180 and I have little will to do much of anything and an inability to focus. I’ve been Rx’d 76 mg. of venlafaxine for a number of years, based on the GeneSight test, and while I feel it does help balance me, I feel that most of my depression/anxiety/etc. is situational based. This is one reason why my current counselor has encouraged me to cease living such a nomadic life and find a place to call home.

And while, the possibility of a mutual connection and relationship with my former colleague did help to an extent; but, as you know, it also caused me to overthink and become anxious at exactly “what we were.” I knew that we were never going to have a romantic relationship early on, but her overall inability to let me get close (with the exception of a handful of times), pushed me to want to find a way to find a closeness.

Ryan

Good evening Anita,

Thank you for reaching out… My apologies for being away, as this month has been someone chaotic.

This started my second week of work at my new job. I do not yet have a laptop, so I’m using my personal computer to read regulations and guidance. I’m trying to be excited, but I fear it may not be as wonderful of an opportunity as I think. This will be my third federal job in as many years, and I want it to be my last (for a while at least). I’m tired of moving and changing jobs and I do hope this is where I can plant my feet. Unfortunately, the job is 100% telework for now, so I do not have to move right away. This means I’ll be working a new job from my same home office here in Appalachia. Yet, I try to remain expectant that, once the dust settles, and I’m working in the big city down south, perhaps things won’t seem so dreadful. I’d like to be there by mid-summer—just awaiting what the pandemic does in this country and how the federal government moves to reopen its offices.

I’ve been rather self-destructive (to an extent) these past few months. The previous job brought me no joy and I did not dedicate the time to it that I should have. I was always behind and playing catch up, and feared what would have happened had this lackadaisical mindset continued. I just was not able to will myself to focus on work. I’d spend hours every day doing anything but work. And I became that jerk who handed off unfinished work to a team of already overtaxed coworkers. I felt like a piece of crap (to be blunt), but there was just nothing left in me to focus on this job. However, after returning my laptop and hardware a week ago last Friday, I started this job with a mentally clean slate last Monday. It’s all I could do. Hopefully, my government-issued laptop arrives in the coming days!

In the past four weeks, I’ve ceased asking my worker to hang out. I’ve expended too much energy into this one-sided relationship, and it was not worth it anymore. She has probably asked me to hang out with maybe four times this year—with decreasing frequency since the cabin trip in January. A switch flipped in her mind after that weekend and she did not seem to want to explore even a deeper friendship. She has often FaceTimed me from work in the mornings, but there is never really any talk of anything more. It feels as though I’ve become more of a sounding board than someone she’d like to spend time with socially. Strange as I have not really experienced this before.

She continues to work her second job on the weekends and has begun a return to the gym. I think her time is limited and she is focused on herself and her friends. She is also dipping her toes into dating again, so I have been relegated to the back seat. We FaceTimed for a bit last week and she actually cried. Her therapist had had to cancel an appointment the day before, which just happened to coincide with her ex’s birthday. She still felt shame about not seeing the signs of his drug addiction and promiscuousness, but also felt anger because a year ago she was in love and spend time making him a birthday cake from scratch. However, he would not see it until late at night, which she later found out was because she was doing drugs with friends. To me, she strikes me as not yet willing to open her heart up to anyone, but misses companionship that comes from a coupling, so I think she’s dating to hope she’ll find that spark or connection again. She said in our FaceTime that she feels numb and empty and knows that isn’t fair to those she gets close with (to include me). As much as I wanted some sort of intimate relationship with her, my posts here and your counsel Anita made it clear that she isn’t the one for me, and that a relationship would have been unwise. Hopefully, I showed her a bit of goodness and respect, and she can meet someone who offers her the same.

Finally, I allowed my loneliness and self-destructiveness to lead me astray. I tried Tinder off and on these past six months, but the dating pool here is quite shallow. I never really took it too seriously. I’ve chatted with a few women here and there via the app, but either they “ghosted” me, or I didn’t pursue things due to a lack of interest. However, I did finally relent two weekends before last and agree to grab dinner with someone. I kept pushing her off for months, but she was persistent, and so I agreed to dinner. (She does know that I am leaving, as I was upfront about that.) Regrettably, I felt even less of a connection when we met. Dinner was pleasant enough, but I really don’t have much in common with her, and I was not physically attracted to her. I tried to be charming and witty and enjoy the night, but there just wasn’t much there for me.

After dinner and drinks, I stopped back at her place to drop her off and she invited me in. I said okay and went inside. She has four cats…and cat tsatskes everywhere. I did my best to ignore it as she poured some shots. I knew what she wanted as she led me to the bedroom, but I didn’t initiate anything. However, she did and we did the deed. I focused on her and she was quite happy—and told her friends about it the next day. I stayed around for a bit but ended up driving home much later than I had intended, which I know saddened her, but I knew that I wasn’t ready for that type of intimacy. (I also felt strangely guilty like somehow I was sneaking around on my former coworker, but I brushed that aside.)

We texted a bit during the week, and she was very flirty and asked to see me again. I begrudgingly accepted and had a pleasant enough dinner. Again, she invited me to her home, and I did my best to relax and not initiate anything. However, she did and I did my best to “rise to the occasion;” however, it simply would not last. I simply could not maintain, so I rolled over and tried to blame the alcohol. She tried to “assist” but there was nothing there for me. I stayed for a few but I soon donned my clothes and drove home.

I just feel so…I don’t know…off. Part of me regrets simply dropping her off after our first date and heading home. At the same time, I too am lonely, and she certainly made her intentions clear, and I was able to muster my prowess to be a great lover that first time. There should not have been a second time, but I was too concerning with hurting her feelings by being honest. I did explain that I’m dealing with depression and am on antidepressants, so that could certainly play a factor—though it never has before. Part of me is frustrated because I felt such an intense connection the first time I went out with my former coworker, and I wanted that feeling again with someone. It’s so rare and so fleeting. However, there just was nothing there for me. She’s asked to see me again, but I continue to push her off. She is understanding but I know she also wants sex, as she isn’t exactly shy about her intentions. And for many guys, perhaps finding a woman with a high libido is a dream, but I also need that connection, which does not exist.

As much as it would be wonderful to have a companion, I know that I need to continue to work on myself. I continue to battle depression, but there is also the lack of a sense of purpose or a longing to explore more of myself. I continue to go to the gym three times a week, but I find it difficult to do anything more than watch tv. I have spent quite a bit of these past few months exploring the state on a Saturday, but I often find myself lonely on my travels—especially when returning to an empty home. I know that, if I were staying here, and with COVID likely subsiding, I could perhaps find a hiking or biking club to join. Yet, I’ll have to wait until I get where I’m going to hopefully find a group.

My apologies for the long post, and I don’t truly expect a reply. I simply wanted to post an update and to vent via the board.

Thank you.

Ryan

Dear Anita and TeaK,

Thank you again for both replying. It brings me some comfort to have a place to speak for freely.

Yes, I did accept the tentative offer and do plan to move away from here someone soon once I receive a formal offer. There is some apprehension about taking another job that is now—and has the potential to always be—100% telework, as I feel that I’d miss the direct human interaction. However, this is something I have not had in the past year, and a larger city (a real city!) could permit that if I can work from anywhere.

That makes sense of what you’ve written about hypnotherapy, Anita. This would explain the other counselor’s aversion to it. My primary counselor utilizes CBT therapy, while the other—the one who offered hypnotherapy— who I saw infrequently, used a type of DBT, which I preferred. Nearly all my experience in therapy has been CBT-based, which was comforting in a sense, but I felt that it did not (or no longer) drill down deep enough as may be necessary for me.

I’ve done a lot of thinking about what you’ve written, Anita and TeaK, and I would say that you’re right: I do have a strong fear of rejection. Barring a few kisses and some G-rated holding and touching, my coworker’s words and actions always indicated that we were to be casual friends. Even when I would pay her a compliment about something as benign as her cooking or her hair, it was typically rebuffed or ignored. As I’ve written and you both have identified, she rarely, if ever, “let her walls down” so I could see her “whole self.” She was always careful to never allow me to know more than she was comfortable with.

I approached this relationship by envisioning her as someone she is not. When I saw her briefly a year ago, I painted an incomplete picture of her. I saw an attractive, professional woman with a confident stride. It was until November when we met that I discovered she was intelligent and driven as well. I allowed my isolation and loneliness of 2020 to override logic I suppose. Logic being not to get too emotionally involved with a coworker. I did try to convince myself that her flaws/vices would make a tangible involvement more difficult, but I cherished the feeling of dressing up and. enjoying dinners with someone fun and intelligent.

I suppose part of my irritation is because of the rejection that it wasn’t…more blatant. Maybe it felt good for her to touch someone again for a time until it became too much and she needed to shut it down? Maybe she was trying to not hurt me by being more direct? Obviously, I got the hint after the crude message about her “cute maintenance man” a week and a half ago. With that cavalier message, I knew for certain then that she would never see me as anything greater than a casual friend.

I’ve worked to make peace with the inconsequential nature of our relationship. Oddly, she has not acknowledged that I no longer really text or contact her, but perhaps her ambivalence was something I hadn’t noticed. I’ve written how it occurred to me that she hasn’t asked me out for dinner, or offered to have me over, since we returned from the cabin. I was too caught up in trying to hold onto something that was never there to realize these deeds were not reciprocated. She may be lonely and looking for a companion—or at least company—but that simply was never going to be me (or is no longer me).

I only have myself to fault. She was upfront from the beginning about this relationship, and while the lines may have blurred for a moment, there would be nothing substantial that would come of it. While early on I had hoped for a romantic relationship, it did morph into the desire to be a special person in her life, who could be a stable rock for her. Perhaps it was my personality, something she saw (or did not see) in me, or even her past traumas that didn’t allow me in. I do not know and may never know.

I will continue to practice vulnerability and try to bring people into my life where I don’t feel the need to be a savior. I also need to work on my self-worth after working much of the past 10-years on my self-esteem. While I feel that I have accomplished much in my life—serving in the military, an MBA, having a good relationship with my daughter, and having what one could a “comfortable life”—there remain the issues that have led me to be twice-divorced, where I have yet to have an intimate, long-term relationship, in my 45-years of life.

I certainly have a lot of work to continue to do.

Thank you,

Ryan

Dear Anita,

I am so sorry to hear that you spent so much time on my post only for it to be lost. I had a similar issue in college and I know it is infuriating. I appreciate you dedicating so much time to make such a comprehensive reply, and greatly appreciate you summarizing it from memory. I have a counseling appointment tomorrow (Tuesday) afternoon and I will address some your points with my counselor then—specifically my experience with my mother.

I’ll write a more thorough reply after my session tomorrow.

Thank you again, Anita.

Ryan