Hi Anita,

Well, I asked her to call me when she had a moment, which she did. We had another easy and fun conversation. (She said her face hurt from smiling.) We didn’t talk about anything serious, but I eventually did ask if we could hang out next week when she has time, to which she replied that would be great. So, that is a relief as I wasn’t sure she would because I notoriously hyper analyze.

I feel that I just need to continue to mitigate my expectations. While I definitely feel a special connection to her, I know that time would only help to ensure that connection is both mutual and sustainable. Need to focus more on the time we spend together and less on the time in between I suppose.

-Ry

Dear Anita,

To respond to your question, we both mentioned on our first date that this was the first date for either of us this year. She mentioned that she was terrified to go out on a date, but that our date could not have gone better. She is also very empathic–another trait I found intriguing–so I am sure that she picked up on my loneliness. We both shared that we attend counseling as well so that perhaps added to her perceptions?

After our second date (non-date), I called her to express some thoughts about our meeting, which, in hindsight, may have been too much. I essentially said that it was bizarre how we met and clicked and that I’d like to continue to see her as friends, and perhaps things would evolve in the coming months (if I was to find a job outside the office). She interjected the “bright spot” comment during the conversation, so perhaps that was a subtle hint that this is all our relationship would be? However, she did say that she wanted to continue to hang out as friends, so that adds to my confusion.

She is an avid hiker–another appealing trait to me, as I am as well–and she mentioned carrying a gallon of water in her car when she goes. So, before things went “south,” I bought her a Nalgene as an early Christmas gift. :-/ So, not I am not sure if I should offer it or if she would accept it. And it’s purple, so it’s not my color. 😐 Also, I’ve been baking bread since the weather has cooled, and have given her a few slices at our first two meetings. I may reach out to her later this week to ask if it is okay if we still hang out.

It’s just confusing because I enjoy our company and am not trying to push for anything more than friendship. Just unsure of what to make of the silence.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, Anita…

Yes, there was definitely a connection, but I think that I saw the writing on the wall in the days after the first date. While the date was really great, and the kiss felt unforced, I think she realized that it was, while not a mistake, not the best idea. Any mentions of another kiss or something more intimate–like dinner at my home–went either unrequited or ignored. I hoped she was only taking her time, but feared she thought that a relationship with a coworker (in the same office) was a bad idea. She is right, of course. Dating a coworker is inherently dangerous–even if we continue to telework full time for the foreseeable future.

It’s tough because I felt such a strong connection with her, and I believe she felt there was something more with me. Conversation and our interaction felt just so fluid and effortless. It’s strange because I rarely find that in another person. However, I have tempered my expectations and will embrace whatever a friendship looks like. It was nice hearing from her every day for a few weeks, so it bittersweet not to hear anything from her since Friday afternoon (as it is Sunday evening as I write this).

As you and my counselor have said, I’ll just take it slow and enjoy whatever time she allows for me. And perhaps someday soon things may change that could lead to something greater.

Anita,

I finally had some time to digest your amazing analysis and wanted to offer my response…

I don’t know if I’d classify my life’s path as random. Yes, my daughter was a surprise, but I did make a conscious decision to try to give her a normal family life. Her mother and I had worked together for a few years before we decided to date; however, I don’t feel like I was entirely comfortable dating, as I still hadn’t really figured out who I was. Yet, marrying her felt like the responsible thing to do at 20-years-old, so I did. All these choices after (military, divorce, college, etc.) were done in an attempt to better my life. I truly felt that these things would make my life better and make me a happier person. I feel that they did in a sense, but any fulfillment was fleeting. Suppose the “treading water” title comes from the lack of real fulfillment stemming from the choices and endeavors. Truly most of my life has been without passions, hobbies, or really dreams at all. Yes, it’s a sad way to live but time doesn’t stop.

I’ve certainly dealt with anger issues for much of my life—even as a child. Not anger that would manifest in violence but always there below the surface. There has always existed a frustration within me. A chronic feeling of being misunderstood or never feeling like I fit in. (That could play a part in why I keep trying different experiences. Wanting to find “my place.”) While I don’t have many memories from my childhood, one that came to mind is a vivid one when I was an early teen. My mother was on me about something and I remember lashing out and saying “freaking.” This escalated the argument because this was “too close to the other ‘F’ word,” she replied. I remember egging her on, and playing dumb, and asking her what the other ‘F’ word was she was referring to. She never said it buy that memory is quite vivid.

My father grew up Catholic, and my mother Lutheran, but both converted to Episcopalian when my sister was born. We added the Episcopal church but left after some time because the pastor had an affair. We ended up at another Episcopal church when I was in my early teens, and I was confirmed around 15 or so. (Memories are fuzzy.) That pastor would cheat on his wife as well, and I quit attending after that—it all seemed so hypocritical. Honestly, I was never truly religious. I enjoyed the sermons but only as a history-esque type lecture. The point of all this is that my mother continued attending a non-denominational church—largely without my father—until converting to Catholicism a few years ago, and they both attend a Catholic church now.

The reason I say all this is that I feel my mother is always seeking something. She had a contentious relationship with her father (my grandfather). I believe that I’ve written here that when they would infrequently travel to visit us, she would spend the day crying and generally be depressed for a few days after their departure. Obviously the relationship she had with her parents affected her parenting regarding me and my sister—that “parental introjection,” to cite Freud.

I have my counseling appointment this Tuesday, and I will bring all these cogent points you have made with me to the session, Anita. They are truly insightful and have given me a different way of approaching things with this new counselor. A better foundational starting point since this is only our second live, in-person session. Again, thank you so much for putting so much into my, and others, board posts.

Good morning Anita:

Thank you for replying even though I’m sure it was late there…

I agree with you and with Rose: I think my ex has defined “friends” and I need to accept and let go. I tend to romanticize things, which is the reason I felt a bit excited when she mentioned visiting next summer for a road trip through the mountains. I “romanticized” it, not in a romantic sense, but more in the vein of reminiscence. We took so many trips in the hills and mountains of the DC area, that the idea of another trip with her would remind me of happier, more carefree times–even though we both knew those times were shortlived.

She laid things bare when she returned home last December (after I helped her move out of her apartment and the ill-fated Christmas party):

It’s not that I don’t miss you but things just have to be different. I don’t mind having you as a part of my life, but we broke up months ago. I know we were still close and I let lines blur sometimes, but it doesn’t change the facts; we aren’t a couple, we are friends. It’s not that I’m mad at you for how things were left last week, but it was very clear that there needs to be a definitive separation between us. I can’t go to Italy with you. I can’t do a road trip with you to move your stuff. I can’t do a weekend with you in the mountains for my birthday. You didn’t want to make the full commitment to me but you also struggle with this being just a friendship. I didn’t have the ability to put my foot down on the line between us when I was in DC, but now I can/must. I really didn’t want to talk about this. I just wanted you to take the facts and the hints and let the friendship settle where it will. But you continue to push for romantic settings, and I’m not sure how else to easily let you down. I don’t hold resentment towards you but I also don’t hold any romantic feelings for you.

Granted, things were still raw then but the walls she put up remain. Certainly, I would welcome a visit by her–and hopefully her son–next summer, but what are the chances of that? We could still be in the midst of the pandemic, she could be even more involved with her current beau (or a new one), I could be involved with someone, I could move… There exist too many variables to pin my hopes on a visit that may or may not happen. And, yes, I think she does hold deep and powerful feelings for me, but she stuffed them down to cope and survive. My ex has had a contentious (to put it mildly) relationship with her father. This is part of as series of texts she sent after she’d asked her father to send some books to her in DC, and he flipped out when he could not find them:

I don’t want the day to come that he’s gone forever and I’d wished I was there more. But it is so hard to love someone like that. To let him be a part of my life. To let him have an influence on my son. I know now I can’t leave my son with him. I can’t trust his anger and I can’t… I don’t know. But I don’t want to look back and feel I deprived him of that relationship.

My mom always gives me shit for being someone I’m not. Being tougher than I am. Having walls and being cold. Because when I finally let go of that shit, I finally wear my heart on my sleeve again it gets shredded every time. Every fucking time.

And I believed in [my son’s father]. I believed in every person who’s ever hurt me. Even after they hurt me. I want so bad to call [my son’s father] and see if he’s ok, tell him he doesn’t have to be ashamed and just say upfront what he actually wants. But I know he won’t and I know I can’t. And I know he doesn’t deserve it.

But it is my own security that I think everyone will hurt me. Including you. It’s probably why my relationships never work because I mentally set them up for failure at the start.

I just have so much hate inside sometimes and I get so angry but it’s all trained. I wasn’t like that as a girl. But the more pain I go through the more hate and anger I hold and sometimes I just blow my top and then I hate myself. I hate myself so much because I’m such a good person by nature, but I’ve choked the life out of that girl for so long. And now I can’t get it back. And I hate that I’m raising my son with this angry person. (Referring to her father.)

I’ve worked hard to make myself a better person. And to love who I am but I just can’t. Because I eventually explode every time and I’m reminded I haven’t changed for the better at all. And I’ve worked hard for nothing. To mask the person I’ve become. It’s not real change. It’s like putting a fresh coat of paint on a dilapidated house.

This is my fresh start. A reminder that no matter how far I run I can’t escape me. I still yell at at my son, throw things, lose my cool. You don’t understand the level of anger that resides in me, Ry. I’ve tried not to let you see it. You’ve seen some of it recently, but it’s like another person. The rage makes me shake and I could honestly kill someone without a second thought until I’ve calmed down.

While she tried counseling in the past and while we dated, she did not in DC—when she probably needed it most. And to be honest, this was a large part of why I could not see myself in the relationship long term. Perhaps it was selfish of me, but while I loved her, I did not want to deal with the seething anger. Yes, much of the time, it was stifled, but it was always there.

And for the reasons she mentioned in the text chain above, she will only allow me to occupy a cursory part of her heart and her life. No matter how deep the connection is, she will keep any vulnerabilities hidden. She won’t ever call to say how much I meant to her, or how important I was to her and her son. She has said those things and they are buried now. I must learn to move on or accept the perfunctory nature of our relationship.

Hi Anita,

“You are beyond words. The best person that has walked into my life besides my son.” -My ex, Sep 30, 2018

I really have not given any serious thought to rekindling things with my ex. There are fleeting moments here and there when I imagine moving home, but I do not feel that I would be truly happy with her long-term. We would both have a lot of work to do, and I think she tried to make it work as long as she could. I was not willing to make the commitment, as I never just through the was the one for me. I dealt with an ex who dealt with severe mental health issues and I don’t think I wanted to partner with someone who dealt with unresolved issues—especially when I battle my own. This may be selfish on my part but it’s honest.

While I think she loves me, she put those “walls” up and pushes aside the “what if’s” or “what could have been’s.” You asked if she blogs? No—at least not publically. Most of my quotes are from text messages or emails (where we did most of our serious talking). This is a text from May 2018–about four months before I left for DC:

And there’s limited commitment with us – for understandable reasons. But it doesn’t make it any less difficult to wonder if I’m determined to make this work… I don’t know. I don’t have the right wording here. It’s just – I refuse to throw all of this away when you move. And I know you don’t see the move as a break-up either, but you also say you don’t know what’s going to happen. And of course we don’t know what’s going to happen, but the anxiety of that response without a “but we’re going to do everything we can to try” as a follow up to that really…. puts a knot in my throat. This really isn’t the best way to talk about this, I know but if you really want to know the truth I examine almost everything I say because I don’t want to fuck this up. I don’t want to scare you, I don’t want to lose you, I don’t want you to hold back in this relationship because you fear hurting me. So I keep quiet and I’m as careful as possible about letting my emotions and intentions out.

She truly saw something special in me and in our relationship. And while I saw qualities in her I admires, and pushed her to achieve new goals, I did not see a lifetime with her. I should have been honest with her, but I did not know for sure at the time and I did not want her to pass up the opportunity for a new life in DC. And as I said before, my bond with her son perpetuated the relationship longer than it naturally should have lived. This is just one of the heart’s filthy lessons I suppose.

As for your initial question, I don’t know how long I’ll be a part of her son’s life. I still buy him the occasional gift or clothes and talk to him whenever I can. However, if things grow more serious with her current beau, she may find less of a reason for her son to talk to me (regardless of what she’s said in the past). And, eventually, I’ll end up in a relationship. It’s difficult to say if I’ll devote as much energy in trying to maintain a relationship with him, when it often feels like a one-way street with his mother. This is a Feb 2019 text from her—a month and a half after she arrived in DC:

My concern is that you are in a different relationship than I am. Whenever I talk about my future it’s to make things better for three of us – me, my son, and you. When you talk about my future is to make things better for me and my son. This is more why I feel like a project than any gift that you give me. You want to make life/future better for me with no expectation of being in my life in the future. At least not in the capacity I envision. This wasn’t necessarily a conversation I was looking to have now or via text, but there’s going to come a point in the near future that we need to have a frank discussion about our relationship. You’ve always avoided talking about it. Even at the beginning you said things like “oh, you said the C word”. Taking it as a joke, as it was mostly intended, I didn’t think much of it until we are more than 1.5 years into a relationship without any real discussion about our future. And I’ve been patient because you were working on moving here- things will be better when he moves. Things will get better when I move there. Things will get better when he moves out of his friend’s place. Now things will get better when you get a different job. And by better I don’t mean our relationship will be perfect but just that you can take a minute to think about us and our future rather than just yours. And now your search for a new job is taking you anywhere, but when I say I’m willing to move and follow you your silence and tiptoe around the conversation echoes so loudly in my universe. I want a family. I want a partner who is committed to making a future with me- working toward something together while still working on our individual selves. And based on a comment the other week, I believe you are in this relationship for my son. You love him and he loves you. You love helping people and it brings you joy, so who better to help than a helpless, amazing little boy whose father has abandoned him and whose mother had a lot of room for growth. And I believe that you think if you and I are not a couple that your relationship with my son will disappear. I’m here to tell you that’s not the case. He needs good, male influences and I’m not going to deny him that in you just because you and I aren’t romantically involved. You’ve even said to me “You’ll always be my friend.” Ouch. But true. I don’t see any reason why we can’t be friends especially since we are all we have out here. And I can’t see why we can’t be friends with benefits on occasion. But we will have to decide what exactly our relationship is or is going to be because my heart needs a rest. My brain needs a rest. I cannot go on guessing and wondering and hoping. If we are meant to be friends, then great! I’d love that. If we are meant to be more then we need to talk about our future. And I’d love that too (btw)! But, full disclosure, I hold a solid resentment toward you for moving into that place. And I’m sorry this topic is coming out like this but you’ve kinda opened it up a bit with your last texts and it seemed like you wanted a response and I just respond in a neutral way when these words have been ready to burst for a bit now.

I wish my being in your life gave you more fulfillment. Me moving to DC was not just for you. I needed a change, I needed to explore, I’m getting a little better but I’ll likely be back home next year.

You’re a lot of good things for me. You encouraged me to get a masters, you’ve helped support me financially and emotionally for the last almost two years. I’m not heartbroken – I can’t be mad at you for not falling in love with me. It sucks that I’m a bit of a hopeless romantic and I need those three words. You show affection and love, whether you want to see that it’s love or not. But I need the words of affirmation. You’ve been good to me in a lot of ways. And we have a lot of good memories that I wouldn’t trade for anything. I’m glad I’m out here and I’m glad you have been in my life in the capacity that you are. There’s no need to apologize so profusely. You do need to start seeing a counselor. And you need to go to the gym. And you must change your inner voice. All I can do is offer the ways I change mine whenever I start heading south or hit rock bottom. I still struggle with being a single mom and there are days I hate myself so much for having a kid. And I hate my son. Then the next day I hate myself for hating myself. Some days I wish I had no emotions so I wasn’t on this constant emotional roller coaster. But it all boils down to keeping a better inner voice. Don’t be so worried about helping me and apologizing to me–help you and apologize to you.

Full disclosure, I knew things weren’t rainbows and butterflies when we talked just before I got the official offer from the consulting firm. But, the real question was – with or without you in the picture, would I regret not taking the opportunity? The answer was yes. I knew it would be hard. I knew I would miss home. Shit, I had a pretty good idea that we wouldn’t make it to the end of my lease. But I couldn’t live with the regret of not moving from home for a little while – the opportunity passed me up twice before and I wasn’t going to do it again. So don’t beat yourself up. It’s all good. And I’m out here if ya need someone and when you need to get into a different space, and my son and I are always around.

Things soured a bit after this, and while we had many fun experiences together there in DC, there were many moments when she was angry at me, depressed, lonely, and all of the above. She needed to cut me loose and she did last year. Her son is almost a year older now, and my ex seems to be in a better stop mentally, so I think she is not as angry as she was (and things with her son are better for them both). Her mom and step-dad get him every Friday night and he spends time with her beau.

Thank you, Anita. I cannot express how wonderful it is to myself (and others) to have this interactive forum. 🙂

Thank you and I am, Anita. I’m certain that the move to a new town and the pandemic that brought upon the isolation allowed me to grieve more than I should have. I’m certain the FaceTimes and chats with her son only prolonged my longing. However, the past few weeks have brought some realizations that she and her son are a part of the past. She stopped making an effort for her son and me to continue to have any sort of relationship, and she truly only calls when she needs something. Lessons we’re learned and growth has slowly occurred.

Ryan