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TeeParticipant
Dear Dan,
I will try to give you my understanding of why she might have pulled out of the relationship. What stands out to me is that she asked for space throughout the course of your relationship: she asked for space multiple times during covid, when you both worked from home, her children were living with you all of the time, and the house “got smaller and smaller”. But she also asked for space during your rekindled romance, when you saw each other only on the weekends and spent fun time together, without her children around.
I can imagine why she felt overwhelmed during the covid period, with all those people she needed to take care of. However, it seems that keeping a leisurely relationship with you and meeting you only for the weekends, also led her to feeling overwhelmed after a relatively short time. And so she put a halt on it.
I don’t necessarily think that she fell out of love with you, but that she is conflicted. It could be that on one hand, she likes spending time with you, but on the other, she feels guilty for being with you, since her children, specially her son, sees you as a rival, as someone who is taking his mother away from him.
May I ask you – when you were suggesting those mini vacations (to which she never agreed) – did you invite her children to come along, or it was supposed to be a getaway for just the two of you? Because children are very sensitive to things like that, and if they feel that you don’t want them around, they will feel jealous and will feel like you are taking their mother away from them. I am mentioning this because you’ve said that your biggest need was to spend time alone with her. So perhaps her children felt it – and they felt jealous and excluded?
As I said, it seems to me that the reason she’s pulled away is her being conflicted, feeling guilty about spending time with you because to her it might feel like betraying her children, not being a good enough mother.
There can be two reasons for this guilt: one could be an irrational feeling of guilt, where she feels guilty for having a life outside of being a mother. Another reason, or an additional reason, could be your behavior. Namely, there might be a certain pull, a certain vibe coming from you, where you prefer to spend time alone with her, without her children, and they feel it, even though you never said it out loud. I am not claiming there is such a behavior or vibe on your part, just putting it out there for you to examine. But if there is, it might contribute to them feeling jealous of you and seeing you as a rival. Which in turn makes her feel guilty and not wanting to have to choose between you and her children. And ultimately choosing her children, of course.
So to summarize, this is my take on why she might feel guilty. It’s either because of (1) her own woundedness and the inability to set boundaries with her children, or (2) she might feel guilty because there is a certain dynamic of rivalry between you and her children, specially between you and her son, which she doesn’t like, or (3) it could be because of both of the above.
What do you think?
TeeParticipantDear i.am.one,
you are so very welcome! I am very happy for you – that things became clearer and you’ve decided to become an ARTIST! Congratulations!!
In the past, you were passionate teaching art, and now you are passionate making it, so it does seem like a perfect fit for you. Something you love and enjoy and lose yourself in it – indeed, your heart’s desire, something you were made to do.
I am also glad that you realize that when you truly love something and believe in it, it matters much less what other people will say. It seems that your decision to dedicate yourself to art – which you feel is your calling – lessened your worries about getting validation from others. That’s because being true to ourselves is what matters the most!
I have a ways to go, but at least I am working towards it.
Sure, be realistic about it, don’t expect a solo exhibition within a few months period! š But keep working on it, and what’s most important: keep enjoying it, keep letting the inspiration and the juices flow. Don’t let it become about selling your art as the most important goal…. although I am glad that you feel confident that you can sell your work pretty soon. That’s awesome!
I do wish you lost of joy and lots of success in the creative process – and please, do let us know how it is going.
Rooting for you, dear i.am.one, the Artist!
TeeParticipantDear iamone,
Thank you for sharing some more about your life. I completely understand why you chose security back then, being a single mother of two small children under the age of 5. And why you were reluctant to take a student loan and go study law, even if you enjoyed working at a law firm very much. I think you chose what was best for your children ā to have a stable income and convenient working hours.
So you chose to be a teacher. You hated it, but it enabled you to raise your sons, right? You may have not followed your heart’s desire (to be a lawyer), but you followed a sense of responsibility and duty. You sacrificed yourself for your children. That’s admirable.
Now the situation is different. You say you wouldn’t even need to work if you donāt want to:
I have to add that I donāt absolutely have to work. I mean, how lucky is that? I realize I could just call this retirement.
So there is no pressure, or at least not such a big pressure, to make money any more, right? You don’t have to sacrifice yourself for anyone. You can do whatever you want ā you are free to do it. Ā Whatever you choose, you may do it (or start doing it) as a hobby, without worrying how you will pay your bills.
I’d say you are in a much better situation now than years agoā¦ because now, if you want to, you can follow your heart’s desire. I don’t mean you should become a lawyer – it does seem overwhelming to plunge into it at the age of 56 (although there are people who get their diploma in their 70s). But you can choose whatever you like, without the pressure of making money.
How do you feel about that? About the idea that you do what you enjoy (e.g. paint or write ā you say you enjoy both quite a bit), but without pressuring yourself to make a career out of it? To be famous for your work? How would it feel to just let it flow, without any expectations?
You said about painting or writing:
Still, I donāt think I should feel like I need these things to justify my value as a human being.
You most certainly don’t. You are valuable as a human being simply because you exist. You don’t need to do anything to prove your worth. Even if you wouldn’t do anything for the rest of your life ā you are still valuable and worthy. Can you believe that?
TeeParticipantDear aVoid,
Both Buddhism and Stoicism believe that life has an inevitable suffering. For Buddhism finds meaning by ending suffering. Stoicism finds meaning by accepting suffering.
I am not a Buddhist myself but am following a Buddhist-based psychotherapist on youtube. Her name is Barbara Heffernan. She explains that according to Buddhism, there is inevitable (or unavoidable) suffering, and there is also avoidable suffering.
Unavoidable suffering and pain can be due to illness, death of a loved one, war, accidents etc… Avoidable suffering is a product of our false beliefs, when we tell ourselves stories which aren’t true (e.g. that we are doomed, or that we are worthless), and this adds to our suffering. So, our false perceptions and false beliefs can lead to suffering that could be avoided.
So when you say you decided to accept suffering, I say yes, good decision, however I would suggest this: accept only the inevitable suffering. Don’t accept and create avoidable suffering.
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I am glad your physical pain is gone! But I understand you’re now forced to work a lot, to pay for your medical treatment. I do hope you won’t have to do it for much longer, and that you’ll be able to return to normal working hours.
Sleeping only 3-4 hours per night is a problem… it seems to be related to not being in a relationship, because earlier this year you were in a relationship, living with a man, and you could sleep normally. Perhaps it’s connected to you feeling anxious alone vs. more peaceful and content when in a relationship. Being single adds to your anxiety, which in turns causes problem with your sleep?
The feeling of being left out still hurts. I went home early from the staff party yesterdaylike i always do. Being in a party setting and everybody being drunk and a ting out is not my thing. It also makes me feel jeloux. Seeing my two friends cling to the guy i like for obvious reasons. But also seeing everybody having fun while drinking. It send me back to High school. Always feeling like the odd man out, and that Iām suposed to enjoy it. I just doesnāt.
You don’t need to enjoy wild parties with lots of drinking and loud music. I myself have never been a fan of such parties… I’ve tried it but it wasn’t for me. So I never really went, or went only a few times and then stopped.
But I see your problem – you crave to be included, to be accepted… and you are not getting that. Maybe sometimes you go to those parties in hope of some love and connection, but it doesn’t happen… In all honesty, one of the reasons it doesn’t happen is because people get drunk, and they cannot really connect in a meaningful way if they are drunk. They are not themselves. You couldn’t even connect with anyone meaningfully in such an atmosphere…
But you experience it differently – you feel hurt and rejected, because it triggers the old wound of rejection. Someone without this wound would say “Nah, I am not going to another party like this because this is total chaos, everybody’s drunk and I feel stupid watching others getting drunk. I’ll rather go to XY place, where there is no alcohol and I can talk to people and mingle.”
But I understand why you can’t say this, why it hurts to feel excluded, even from a bunch of drunk guys.
Because you feel not worthy enough, not good enough… And as I’ve said before, I think it all stems from your emotional neglect in childhood. You might have experienced exclusion more acutely in high school, because that’s when belonging to a peer group is super important to us. For me too, the first time I’ve experienced exclusion was in high school, not earlier. I felt ugly and boring, like no one wants to spend time with me because I am so uninteresting, I am so worthless really. That was my thinking back then…
Later I’ve realized that I felt so inferior compared to my peers because of my mother’s treatment of me. My mother’s severe criticism led me to feel worthless. For you, it’s probably your parents’ emotional neglect. They weren’t there for you, and so you concluded that you are worthless of their time and attention. That something is terribly wrong with you.
I guess we’ve talked already about the inner child healing, which you would need in order to get rid of the sense of worthlessness. Becoming a good parent to yourself, embracing that little girl that often felt alone and abandoned. That’s the ultimate cure, and it helped me as well…
TeeParticipantDear iamone,
I was thinking about your situation… I don’t necessarily think that you lack self-love and self-esteem, and here is why: you didn’t feel bad about yourself when the supervisor at your previous job (which you quit) told you you performed poorly.
They thought I was horrible at what I do (I think that was very harsh; it takes time to build up your confidence and become skilled at some things)
That’s a healthy self-protection instinct: you rejected their harsh evaluation and treated yourself with kindness, telling yourself that “it takes time to build up your confidence and become skilled at some thing”. That’s not how someone with low self-esteem would react. A person with low self-esteem would take other people’s criticism to heart and start berating themselves. But not you – you rather dismissed their criticism and called them losers, rather than taking any of that criticism on yourself. That’s why I believe you don’t have a real problem with self-esteem.
At the same time, you do have a problem, because you do believe you are a “loser”. The reason you believe you are a loser is not because you believe you lack skills or talent, but because you haven’t reached the success you hoped for. Be it material success, or career success or relationship success. So I would like to explore your definition of success a bit more…
This is how you defined a perfect career (a part of your description of a perfect life):
you have a job in which you are able to use your best talents and which you find interesting and rewarding both intrinsically and extrinsically (pay).
The above would mean career success for you, right? Using your best talents in a job that you find interesting and fulfilling, and which pays well too.
At the same time, this is what you said about using your talents:
I havenāt been true to who I am and the gifts Iāve been given.
I really enjoy very little. My entire life has been focused on trying to achieve things that will make others see me as respectable or acceptable.
I paint paintings, but I think I do it to be able to say ā Look! Iām a successful artist! rather than because I enjoy it.
There seems to be a conflict within you: on one hand, you would like to do something you enjoy and that would give you fulfillment (and be well paid). But on the other hand, your entire life has been focused on “trying to achieve things that will make others see me as respectable or acceptable”. You haven’t spent your life trying to develop your talents, but you have spent your life (so far) trying to impress everyone. Trying to get their approval and validation.
To me it seems like you’re sitting on two chairs. One is being true to yourself and following your passion (hoping that it would result in material success too). The other is chasing the money and what you deem a “respectable” career (being a lawyer or a doctor), but disregarding your heart’s desire. You are sitting on both chairs and you sort of fell in between them. The result: you have neither fulfillment nor money/career success.
If you want a chance at a “perfect life”, as you define it, I think you’d need to choose. And I think you’d need to choose your heart’s desire (to thy own self be true), regardless of what others will say or how ridiculous that desire might seem to some of the peopleā¦.
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I was just about to write to when you posted… I am so sorry that you were in extreme pain and that you needed expensive health treatment (if I understood well?). Are you getting better now?
You made a great summary of all the things you’ve learned from this experience. I guess it’s easy to forget that and focus on the negative – specially when you are in pain, not just emotional but also physical! Besides being in pain, you haven’t slept much for a month, you worked too much and you feel exhausted. I hope that you’re not in pain any longer and that you can finally get some proper rest.
In recent days you felt rejected by your colleagues, however in the meanwhile you’ve realized that there were times in the past when you cancelled plans with your friends because you thought they don’t like you. You pushed them away before they could do that to you:
Or all the times i cancelled plans with my friends because i was convinced that they didnāt really like me, even though they kept showing me that they did (self sabotaging behaviour, pushing away the people closets to me)
You also said that when you were suffering from depression, people eventually stopped asking you to go out with them, because you always said no:
I mean other people have done that to me before. Would have been nice to have been invited anyway. Like when i had a depression people stopped asking me cuz i always said no, but not being asked hurt a lot. Makes you feel like they donāt care.
So you can see that often it’s not that people don’t like you and want to exclude you, but that you feel not good enough and sort of exclude yourself first. You reject yourself (self-sabotage) before others can reject you.
It’s good that you see this pattern, which has been happening not just with the guys you liked, but also with your friends and colleagues. The pattern is: reject them before they can reject you.
Now that you see the behavior, you can work on changing it. But first, I think you should get plenty of rest if possible, before continuing working on your trauma response and other mental health topics. Will you have the opportunity to rest and relax in the following days?
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
unfortunately I need to leave for a few hours but will get back to you a little later to continue our conversation… talk to you later!
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
It comes on top of one the girls (the one adding pressure on me before the date) asking people to join her after work for drinks (last friday and today) but didnāt included me. Do now i feel both heartbroken and like i am slowly being cut off for some reason.
I see now how you feel rejected on two levels – both by him and by this colleague who didn’t invite you to go for drinks with the rest of the group. You feel excluded and rejected. And this bring up the old wound: of feeling worthless. That’s why this has been so painful for you.
As I said, it’s the consequence of childhood trauma. We can talk about it some more…
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I feel itās my whole being thatās worthless
that’s probably a reaction to having been neglected in your childhood, to not having anyone really take you under their wing and protect you from bullying and other bad things happening around you. Your sister was, due to her illness, priority No1 for your parents, and you were left to your own devices. You were emotionally neglected. That can cause us to feel worthless – because the child always blames themselves for not getting proper love and care. We believe there is something wrong with us. That it is our fault that we were neglected and rejected… and so we conclude that we are worthless.
But that’s not true of course… I guess rationally you know that’s not true? You know that it’s the childhood trauma that caused it (you said you’ve been diagnosed with C-PTSD. Btw I also had it. Everyone with childhood trauma – be it neglect or abuse – has it.)
We can talk about ways how to stop feeling worthless, if you’d like.
TeeParticipantPerhaps a slightly different wording for Lesson 3:
“I should not take refusal too personally. My worth is not determined by if I am in a relationship or not.”
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I think i am returning to the old patterns of emotional unavailable person being atracted to an emotional unavailable person
You were/are attracted to an emotionally unavailable person, however you did break your own pattern of emotional unavailability and you made a move! That’s a huge step – you should congratulate yourself for that!
There is no need to return to being emotionally unavailable, even though things didn’t work out with him. You’ve made progress and that’s what counts most. In fact, I think you should reframe the whole experience and focus on the lessons learned:
First, I think you’ve learned that you can trust your instincts because the guy did show signs that he liked you, even though he later rejected your advances. Nevertheless, you were not crazy thinking that he likes you. You were not imagining things. He did behave as if he liked you.
And so that’s lesson No1: “I can tell if a guy likes me or not”.
Secondly, you can repair what you’ve “messed up” in early interactions with someone. You can write a letter, apologize, speak your mind, express yourself…. in short: you can express yourself and clarify how you feel. It doesn’t have to remain in the realm of guessing, high anxiety, trying to read his mind, watching his every move and every gesture looking for signs…
I think that by expressing yourself and your feelings, you took a very mature approach. You took responsibility for your side of the relationship. You were clear, honest and open. And friendly, without judging him if he refuses. That’s as mature and emotionally balanced as it gets!
So lesson No2 maybe could be: “I can approach a relationship in a mature and emotionally balanced way. I don’t have to do it perfectly from the start, but I can repair whatever I’ve messed up, and speak my truth in a balanced and mature way.”
And lesson No3 (which you’ve already established): “I should not take refusal too personally. My worth is not determined by if a man is with me or not.”
What do you think?
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I said i shut down because of my anxiety, it only happens when i really like someone so really itās a compliment.
Okay, that’s clear enough. If he wanted to pursue a relationship with you, he would have reacted to that and told you something like “I like you too…” and it would have progressed from there. But since he didn’t, unfortunately it does mean he doesn’t want a relationship with you. It still doesn’t mean he doesn’t like you, but as we have discussed before, it could be because he fears intimacy. One of your colleagues said “that guy is all over the place (referring to his mental health)”, so it wouldn’t be a surprise if he is confused or scared or anxious to be in a relationship.
i think i should try and not take this too personally. My worth is not determined by if a man is with me or not.
Definitely! Don’t think that you aren’t good enough or worthy enough, just because he said no. There is nothing wrong with you, and you can hold your head high!
The way I see it, the reason he didn’t invite you to his birthday could be two. One is that he likes you and that’s why he feels he feels he cannot stay friends with you, without his anxiety going up. He cannot just nonchalantly talk to you, pretending he has no feelings for you, when in fact he does.
The other reason could be that he doesn’t want to give you false hopes. He may think that by inviting you, it will get your hopes up about a possible relationship, and he doesn’t want that. So he is kind of preventing things to go in a wrong direction.
So he might be minimizing the chances of things becoming “too friendly” between the two of you again – either to protect himself or to protect you.
one the girls (the one adding pressure on me before the date) asking people to join her after work for drinks (last friday and today) but didnāt included me. Do now i feel both heartbroken and like i am slowly being cut off for some reason.
Is that the girl who was flirting with him at the bar (when you left without saying goodbye)?
TeeParticipantDear Sadlyconfused,
I am really happy that you and in a much better place with your husband and that he is, to use your own words, “nothing alike” your father! That’s fantastic because that means he is not a judgmental, criticizing type, who makes your life miserable, but is an understanding and loving person, whom you can talk to. There was a glitch in his behavior during the pandemic, but as you said, circumstances contributed to that as well. It’s good that you are now seeking to forgive both him and yourself for “any dysfunctional behaviour over the last couple of years”.
If you keep your communication open and honest, knowing that he is not your father and won’t judge you – I think that will be the base for a healthy and emotionally intimate relationship.
That’s fascinating that the pandemic actually enabled you to feel safer because your father couldn’t just pop at your door at any time to harass you. Maybe this feeling of safety encouraged you to stop taking anti-depressants too? (you said you’ve been weening off for the last couple of years, which coincides with the pandemic). Which also means that the reason you were taking anti-depressants all this time was your father and your inability to say No to him, to protect yourself from his harassment, I imagine? But eventually you succeeded:
distancing myself from him was the hardest thing I ever had to do as an adult but to allow the psychological assaults to continue would have been just as bad.
Congratulations on distancing yourself! How is your relationship with your father now?
It also seems that unlike with your father, you felt safe with your husband ā safe enough to start reducing the anti-depressants and discovering and expressing your authentic feelings, and showing more and more of your authentic self. I am happy for you!
You were right to react to your husband’s excessive use of Discord:
I certainly couldnāt keep quiet about the things that were bothering me anymore, regardless of how silly they might or might not have been. I was feeling so insecure about it.
It wasn’t silly. He was having an emotional affair with people in the cyber space, and was neglecting you… so you were totally right to make an issue of it. And I am glad that this game doesn’t exist any more, but also that he had already reduced the time he was spending on it, even prior to that. It seems it lost its emotional grip on him, which is good news.
I would like to return to your father briefly:
I sometimes even hear my mind telling myself āIām badā or āIām disgustingā and itās sad and scary how ingrained these beliefs are. Iām trying to grieve for my childhood when emotion comes up and attempting to talk to myself kindly. In the present day I genuinely donāt feel like I have any reason to feel that way towards myself and I know that itās not true, yet my nervous system is wired around these messages.
It’s great that you don’t trust the inner critic any more, and when you hear those deprecating words, you try to talk to yourself kindly. That is the way to counter the harsh voice of the inner critic: to talk to yourself with warmth and compassion, like a good, loving parent. You are doing a great job, and all I can say is: Keep up the good work!
It will take some time to stop the automatic thoughts from popping up, but it’s important that you notice them and sort of observe them, but not identify with them.
Apparently it was Martin Luther who said “You cannot keep birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair“. So you notice the deprecating, harsh thought, but you know it’s your Inner Critic, and you counter it with the voice of the Inner Good Parent, or the Inner Coach, as some call it. Someone who loves you and cheers you on, rather than someone who judges you and puts you down.
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I am sorry he hasn’t invited you to his birthday party. That’s not nice of him and I see how you feel hurt. May I ask – when you sent him the “confession” message in which you apologized for your behavior etc – have you made it clear that you like him more than a friend? I mean, does he know without a doubt that you are interested in him romantically?
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