Dear Pam:

Your description of your relationship with your daughter has an emotional incestuous element to it and it reads like a romantic relationship, not a mother-daughter relationship. In your inappropriate, an indeed co-dependent relationship with your daughter, you are the traditionally feminine person, the feeling, sensitive, needy, dependent one, the one needing to be told that she is loved (“I am an empath and highly sensitive… I’ve always ‘needed/wanted’ from her an affirmation of her love and support), and your daughter is the masculine person in the relationship: the thinking, independent, strong one, one of actions- not words (“My daughter has a stronger personality, not one to get her feelings hurt, more of a ‘thinking’ personality than a ‘feeling’ one… she does a lot for me“).

The way you describe your closeness with her while you were sick is similar to how a woman describes a romantic reunion with a romantic partner: “she was completely everything I’ve ever needed and wanted from her. We were very close, communicated constantly and she wanted to be with me all the time…it was almost like a co-parenting situation. I felt needed and appreciated. She told me all the time how sorry she was…”

After you got better (I hope that you are now cancer free), she is still very much in your life but not always like before. Your reaction is similar to a devastated, co-dependent romantic partner who is no longer attended to like before: “I was very hurt and confused and tried to talk to her about it. She explained to me that she needed space, that the tighter I held to her, the more she felt she needed to pull away. That she thinks I have co-dependency issues…I miss her almost constant company. I don’t feel the closeness and comfortableness with her that we used to have; it seems awkward when we’re together and I cry all the time”

And then, she’s been spending time with another mother, and you are jealous… as if she is your husband, let’s say, who is spending time with another woman: “she spends a lot of her time with … the mom. I am aware that I have jealous feelings regarding this and don’t understand why she needs a mother-figure when she has me“.

“I need a paradigm shift… a change in how I’m thinking about this…  to help me have a healthy relationship with my daughter (which we both want) and to help me move forward. I guess that’s what I’m asking for“- I think that for the benefit or your daughter, her children and for your own benefit, it is necessary that you attend quality individual psychotherapy where you will experience the paradigm shift/ change in thinking that you are asking for. With such shift and change, you will be able, I hope, to move forward toward an appropriate, healthy mother-daughter relationship with your daughter.

anita

• This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by .

Also, I would like to add that I admire your self-awareness and think it is great that you are willing to make some changes to your own self for your relationship.

Hi Pam,

I’m so happy you booked an appointment for therapy. Just goes to show how much you care about your daughter and family. I’m so glad you found my insight helpful. I was afraid I’d offend you and hurt your feelings.

It is wonderful that you have your own hobbies and business. You sound like such a talented person! I’ve always found scrapbooking very cool. I wanna get into it myself…

It’s good to know you’re a part of your grandkids’ lives… As you should be too…

Yes, her abruptness may be a way of keeping you at a little distance, though I’m not entirely sure what you mean by abrupt. With my mother, she has invaded my privacy before. So now I keep her at bay. I do not show her any pictures I take in parties or trips. She is blocked from my social media. She is not allowed to touch my bag without my permission. My mother was always disapproving of me and my choices; we are very different people. So I guess I do not involve her in my life because I just want to be me without any objections or trouble from her. Also, it just makes me very uncomfortable to include her in my life. Sometimes I cannot even explain why. Does that sound like your daughter?

If it does, please do not take it personally. I know it must sting you. But know she is just trying to protect her space. If you show her you respect her and see her as another adult, she may stop this behaviour.

Also, I just wanna add… It seems to me that you are being harsh with yourself. It is great that you are self-aware and are taking action to better your relationship with your daughter. Bu that can be done with some self-kindness as well.

I hope this helps…

Dear Pam:

Wikipedia on the topic of covert incest aka emotional incest: “Covert incest is described as occurring when a parent is unable or unwilling to maintain a relationship with another adult and forces the emotional role of a spouse onto their child instead”. Pam (the boldface feature next, and in the rest of this post is my addition): “I.. have no close friends… I am married but I have depended much more on my daughter, and sometimes my son, for emotional support than my husband“.

Wikipedia, definition of covert incest: “an emotionally abusive relationship between a parental figure and child that does not involve incest or sexual intercourse, though it involves similar interpersonal dynamics as a relationship between sexual partners”. Pam: “My love language is words of affirmation. My daughter (is)…  more of a ‘thinking’ personality than a ‘feeling’ one… I’ve always ‘needed/wanted’ from her an affirmation of her love and support and felt as if I’ve rarely gotten it… Two years ago, I was… sick for a year. During that time… she was completely everything I’ve ever needed and wanted from her. We were very close, communicated constantly and she wanted to be with me all the time…  She told me… how she couldn’t do it without me, how she never wanted our relationship to go back to what it was, how she loved spending time with me, etc… I don’t feel the closeness and comfortableness with her that we used to have; it seems awkward when we’re together and I cry all the time“.

The rehab. com: “The phrase ’emotional incest’ can be a bit misleading… The word ‘incest’ usually refers to sexual acts, but emotional incest isn’t sexual. Instead, it’s a relationship between family members that’s psychologically inappropriate. Most commonly, emotional incest occurs when a parent is lonely and treats their child as a partner… The American Psychological Association defines covert incest as a form of emotional abuse. The adult is prioritizing their needs over the child’s, at the expense of the child’s mental well-being”. Pam: “I’ve always felt a need to control her…  I’ve always “needed/wanted” from her“,etc.

The rehab. com, continued: “A covert incest relationship can take many forms, including: …  The parent feeling jealous when the child develops relationships with others. This can cause the child to feel guilty about external relationships and avoid building friendships or romantic relationships”. Pam: “she has recently become friends with a family that she has a lot in common with… and she spends a lot of her time with them, including the mom. I am aware that I have jealous feelings regarding this and don’t understand why she needs a mother-figure when she has me“.

More from the rehab. com: “emotional incest can cause severe issues within the family dynamic. The child may struggle with a love-hate relationship with their parent, both in childhood and later in life”. Pam: “My 34-year-old daughter and I have always had a head-butting type of relationship… she has always fought back… She explained to me that she needed space, that the tighter I held to her, the more she felt she needed to pull away… she is, at times, a little terse and abrupt with me… she is a little short with her answers to me“.

Back to the rehab. com: “Healing from an Emotional Incest Relationship: Both the parent and the child will need to heal from an emotional incest relationship. The parent should seek therapy so they can get help establishing and respecting boundaries with their children. They’ll also have to find a new, healthy resource for emotional support, such as a friend. Children will also need to work on healing from covert incest abuse. Many children who have gone through this experience move far from the parent in an attempt to get away as an adult. However, this isn’t a long-term solution as the parent can still reach out and break boundaries with phone calls, visits, emails, texts and other means of contact”.

Psychology today. com: “It is not a recognized clinical diagnosis and does not refer to inappropriate sexual contact, but the term ’emotional incest’ (also known as ‘covert incest’) is sometimes used to describe parents who are unable to maintain healthy boundaries with their children. Such parents may be living with mental illness, substance abuse, an unhappy marriage, or divorce. In essence, such parents feel alone and unloved, and rather than seek support from other adults, they turn to their children for intimacy and care. They may burden children with their own needs, constantly seek their validation, become emotionally or psychically clingy, or try to control the child”. Pam: “I’ve always felt a need to control her… I also have no close friends”, etc.

More from Psychology today: “Emotional incest leaves a deep scar on a child’s experience of closeness and intimacy; specifically, they struggle in intimate relationships as adults. Signs of enduring this dynamic include: Difficulty sustaining intimate relationships”, etc. From the rehab. com: ” Children with emotional incest syndrome are at a higher risk of: Eating disorders, Self-harm, Relationship dissatisfaction, Feelings of worthlessness or inadequacy, Difficulties prioritizing their needs because they become so used to caring for another, Sexual intimacy issues, Substance abuse, Compulsive behavior, Problems maintaining boundaries with people”.

I will close this post with addressing Pam: I am the product of Emotional Incest. I suffered from the misfortune of being born to an emotionally incestuous mother. Please take this information here to your therapist. The lifetime damage done to a child by an incestuous parent is massive. It is not only you who need psychotherapy, but also your daughter and your son. Please understand: your children were not born so to take care of your emotional needs, to make you feel loved, to make you no longer feel lonely. You were supposed all along to take care of them, of their emotional needs, not the other way around.

anita

I forgot to add in my above post that to be aware of trading one ED for another. That is, becoming dependent on the tools you’re using rather than mindfully using them as a bridge to freedom.

Example: Becoming overly attached to a therapist or group. It can happen. Just be aware, and ask for qualified tips on how to tell if you are turning into a different yet more-of-the-same ED driveway. We don’t want to park our baggage at another house. : )