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March 18, 2019 at 6:42 am #285081AnonymousInactive
I also have something that is really bothering me.
In our customs, the father is very important in the wedding. I don’t like the idea that he gets to be the centre of the family only for the public. He does not deserve that. And he has to give me away and i can’t stand to imagine participating in this false image. He gets away with everything he did. My mother says i should not ruin my life and it is just 5 mins but it bothers me a lot. He should not get to give me away. It would mean that he is allowed to do whatever he wants and i would still need him. I don’t know what to do but he should not get to act like a father when he wants to.
March 18, 2019 at 12:10 pm #285137AnonymousGuestDear gj:
“I will now gave to give up on the idea of what a family is that I have held on to for so long”, you wrote in your post before the most recent. It means that if/ when you get married you decide who gives you away, if anyone at all. It doesn’t matter what your father wants or what your mother wants, you decide.
If you marry where you live, especially if it is an arranged marriage, I suppose you will do what those who arranged the marriage want you to do. But if you move and live far away, you can choose if you marry, who you marry and what ceremony will take place.
You want to be motivated in life: when you choose, you have something to look forward to. Living your life your way is something to look forward to, isn’t it?
anita
March 18, 2019 at 10:43 pm #285241AnonymousInactiveOne thing I am concerned about, anita is if i am being too bitter or dramatic with respect to my father or anybody else. How can I know if my expectations from others are too much or if i am being too sensitive for my own good?
March 19, 2019 at 7:55 am #285271AnonymousGuestDear gj:
Through the six pages of our communication here I did not detect any dramatic inclination on your part. I know how dramatic reads like, I read it in other threads, but not in yours. Your view of your father and of your mother read realistic and trustworthy to me.
If you want to bring up any specific regarding your ‘expectation from others” being maybe “too much”, please do and I will respond to those specifics.
anita
March 19, 2019 at 8:29 am #285277AnonymousInactiveOkay. Here are a few that I have been told are a bit too much.
1) my expectation of what i want in my husband – i really would want him to know everything about my family and how i feel about them. I don’t want to hide any of our illnesses. My best friend and mom say that i am bringing down the standard of the guys i might find by exposing the “flaws”. And it is too much to expect someone to accept everything. I don’t mind if such a person doesn’t exist, i would rather not get married. Is this too much to expect?
And also, a common theme in indian marriages (love or arranged) is that the guy’s mother acts like his wife will take him away, they are very defensive and treat the girl as an outsider. My mom still is an outsider .That bothers me a lot. I need a guy who is aware of this and takes a stand. It is very annoying to me that the girl is expected to accomodate an adult’s tantrums. I basically need us to be a team, it will not be us “against” the whole world but that we are equals and I don’t come after his mother in his life. Also, a guy who has a say in his life – i rejected one guy because when my mom called his mom, she told him that his sister in the US controls the account!( on the website) and that the sister will add more details. I really am against guys who have to be told to get married and to whom the girl has to be brought to. I don’t know if that makes sense but basically a guy who is actively looking not being spoon fed.
2) Everything i mentioned here about motivation and having nothing to look forward to. I get answers from my sister like learn to be more satisfied with your life. I really loathe that piece of advice. But am i too dramatic in absolutely hating the way my life is.
3) My resentment towards my father. It is seriously unfair. He is not a bad person but he should not get to get away with it. And basically all the elders in our family. Everytime my mom shows me a profile – where the parents of the guy describe the girl they are looking for as – needs to be humble, needs to look after our son, etc. It irks me because I know what that family is going to be like, she should know it too and she is absolutely okay with it. I have cried in front of her about this – how can you have such low standards for your daughter. Or my mother’s sister who never had supportive advice for me when i was stressed out in college but now thinks she has the right to say marriage is a must. My mom says i should be grateful as they are doing it because they care.
4) Work – i get really upset after i notice someone getting praised because i see all the ways the same seniors could have enabled me to get there.
I guess i know that you can never expect something from a person but i feel i should be able to define what my expectations are for a particular role in my life.
March 19, 2019 at 9:21 am #285281AnonymousGuestDear gj:
1) It is reasonable and a good idea to let your husband “know everything abut my family and how I feel about them…”- if you find out before you marry him that he appreciates and respects your thoughts and feelings, that he doesn’t tell you that you shouldn’t feel the way you feel, if he doesn’t encourage you to hide your feelings and pretend to feel what you don’t.
Your mother and best friend suggest that by “exposing the ‘flaws'”, you will be “bringing down the standard of the guys I might find”- what you need is not a guy who will see your value in your family of origin and judge you according to other people’s lives. You need a guy who will see your value in you as an individual.
You are living in a society where the individual is discouraged. This is the problem. You need a man who will be a rebel, like you, seeing the individual, not seeing the group where the individual is blurred, not really there.
You need a man who doesn’t allow or invite his mother to terrorize his wife. You need a man who acts like an individual and a team member of two with you, not with his mother or his sister. “I basically need us to be a team”- yes, this is what makes a relationship and marriage a healthy union, a team of two.
Problem is you live in a society with different rules. You know from your own experience of your parents’ marriage, how a marriage looks like according to those societal rules. You want something way better.
2) Your sister’s advice to “be more satisfied with your life”- she has the group mentality, where the individual should almost… not exist, and she advises you to be satisfied with being an almost non-existent individual, a blurred part of a group.
3) You don’t want to have resentment toward your future husband, and you will, if you accept the almost non-existent, blurred individual status in your future marriage, the same as your mother’s status in her marriage. Maybe your mother’s sister cares about you, but not as an individual. She cares about you as a blurred part of a group.
4) I agree with your statement: “I should be able to define what my expectations are for a particular role in my life”. Problem is people have problems defining their expectations having grown up in the West, where the Individual concept is more developed and more accepted than elsewhere. Where you live, in a very conservative society within India, you are surrounded by people who promote the group at the expense of the Individual.
This is why moving may be a good choice for you, someplace where the concept of the Individual is practiced adequately.
In summary: no, I don’t see you as dramatic or too sensitive. I think that you do have unreasonable expectations that in your current society, you can live as an individual defining your own expectations and living your own life the way you see fit.
anita
March 19, 2019 at 9:55 am #285291AnonymousInactiveI think you’ve actually described what i have been feeling lately. The way these arranged marriages work – in my community atleast – is so detached from the individual and their identity.
It is actually funny. My mom the other day was talking about how things have changed now and i don’t have to be terrified – and by that she means if i have proof after getting engaged that the guy is completely horrible – i can break it off 🙂
And it is really cool that you could see the problem with this. When i had gone to drop my mom at her mom’s place, my aunt was there and she was telling us about how one of her husband’s relative went to the US for his education, fell in love and got married to a foreigner there and she said “the times are bad now”. I think it is kind of ingrained in all of us that if we stray from the “way” to do things it is unthinkable and wrong.
I guess because no one was understanding what i was saying here I thought i was either too selfish or too sensitive. Thank you for hearing me out, again. I will not bend to the rules – this may actually have sounded dramatic 🙂 I was just doubting myself that I don’t know enough about life to decide what the right thing for me is.
March 19, 2019 at 10:03 am #285301AnonymousGuestDear gj:
“I was doubting myself that I don’t know enough about life to decide the right thing for me”- you know more than your mother does, and more than you aunt, and more than most people where you live and many who live elsewhere.
We are individuals after all who need to live in a society. It is possible to be an individual and function well in a society, interact well with others so to cooperate, help each other.
As a matter of fact, the more you have win-win interactions with others, and within a win-win relationship where the two people help each other, the more you become an individual. It is within healthy, loving (win-win), non aggressive relationships with others that we become more and more the individuals that we are.
anita
March 19, 2019 at 6:36 pm #285391AnonymousInactiveSomehow for me, if I have to be true to myself – which means I will not pretend to be someone else, I don’t believe we can have healthy relationships with most people. I have noticed most relationships among people are to get something out of it. Especially at work, I am not sure how to function. One moment, they are nice and the next moment they are horrible. Even if i leave myself out of it, things between people are very fake. It feels like you need to leave who you are outside the building. I think i struggle with that, because we spend close to 8 hours inside and everyone wants to protect themselves – which is understandable. My only problem is that people are too defensive, even for little things they want to deflect blame. I could never do that to anyone, leave alone someone who is a decade younger. I feel very out of place because for me I am not comfortable with hanging out casually knowing what everyone is really like. I cannot be around people being fake-friendly/concerned. I cannot play along.
March 20, 2019 at 8:21 am #285451AnonymousGuestDear gj:
“I don’t believe we can have healthy relationships with most people”- I agree. Having one healthy relationship, that is good enough, way better than none. Within your home and within your workplace, you don’t have a single healthy relationship. And I agree, reads to me that it is indeed impossible to have a healthy relationship in either one of these contexts: your home and your workplace.
anita
March 20, 2019 at 8:53 am #285457AnonymousInactiveThanks anita. I guess I need to stop looking for proof that good things are possible in bad places.
March 20, 2019 at 9:11 am #285465AnonymousGuestDear gj:
Yes, better stop looking for a healthy relationship in your home or at your workplace.
Look elsewhere.
anita
March 20, 2019 at 7:56 pm #285527AnonymousInactiveDear anita,
I am not able to trust myself with my own life. My constant fear is that I am a raging, emotional and unstable person and that i may ruin my life by trying to change things up or choosing a path different from everyone else. I have lot of anxiety about how things could get worse. What if I go off on my own and am not able to find a partner. My mother often reminds me that i may regret this later – when i am sick, old or in a financial crisis. It is the only thing that scares me about not getting married.
It takes so much to keep one aspect life – say work – running and yet I am so unhappy. Am i just lazy? I am not able to trust my judgement. What if i should be working harder, am I just using manager and team’s behaviour to excuse my lack of motivation but it may well be that I am not cut for this? What if my manager is right about me? I am again very anxious that i will never have enough skills and may easily get fired. I don’t understand why it is so hard for me to set my mind on something and work for it.
I don’t understand why I cannot act on things and i don’t know how to tell if my judgement and analysis of things in my life can be trusted
Gj
March 21, 2019 at 8:14 am #285589AnonymousGuestDear gj:
“My constant fear is that .. I may ruin my life”- is your current life so wonderful, or even satisfactory, so much so that better not ruin it.. what if you ruin your current life and have a good life instead?
“I may ruin my life by trying to change things up or choosing a path different from everyone else”- is your mother happy or content with her life as it is, with not changing things, by not choosing a path different from everyone else?
“My constant fear is that I am a raging, emotional and unstable person..”- and you want to feel okay with having a miserable life, like your mother’s and your father’s- to be okay with things as they are, to not want something better-
-what if you can be calm for having a better life, instead of by calmly accepting a miserable life?
“My mother often reminds me that I may regret this later- when I am sick, old or in a financial crisis”- it will feel miserable enough to be sick, to lose the ease of using our bodies with advanced aging.. whether you are single or married, whether you follow the traditional path or choose a different one.
What if choosing the wrong husband, or the wrong husband being chosen for you will cause you to get sick and age faster… and even get into a financial crisis?
“I don’t understand why it is so hard for me to set my mind on something and work for it. I don’t understand why I cannot act on things..”- because you are afraid and you mother (and others) are scaring you.
Look at your mother’s life throughout the time you know her, ever since you came into her life. Do you want her life? If you do, take her advice. If you don’t-
– if you don’t want her life, stop listening to her.
anita
March 21, 2019 at 8:55 am #285605AnonymousInactiveDear anita,
I guess I feel bad for feeling miserable. I get paid well at work, my mother takes care of the house and cooks us food, which essentially means all I am required to do is go to work and do a good job. I feel bad for not being able to do that and makes me feel that I am being ungrateful – which was why i asked you in an older post about me being too sensitive or dramatic.
Your latest reply does help me see that i am so scared of things getting worse that I am not even looking at how badly I feel about how things are as they are.
About not listening to my mother’s advice. I am starting to see that I really need her approval. I even took out life insurance within a few minutes of speaking to the agent. What i wanted to do was to go back home and think about it, but she said i would not have time to go back (almost implying i will be too lazy to come back) and so i filled out the form right away. I am angry at myself for being so weak. In that case it would have been wise to take my time. Somehow, when my mom brings up one of my flaws, i am convinced right away that i must do it her way as i have a flaw that would limit how i function. I think i use her as a crutch to deal with my self doubt.
Gj
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