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March 18, 2018 at 9:05 am #197959AnonymousInactive
Dear Anita
Thanks for putting those quotes. Yes, that says a lot. What was your point exactly for me to see?
March 18, 2018 at 9:15 am #197961AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
In what I re-read you mentioned repeatedly that you feel trapped.
You wrote: “I understand he is a bad person, but I can’t forgive myself I couldn’t make him love me, I keep analyzing … I could have been different… I always want to punish myself, why am I like that, why I can’t be the person he wants.”
My understanding at this (advanced) point: you believe that this man is a good person and that you are a bad person. This is why you are not angry at him and instead, you are angry at yourself.
When interacting with him you suffer because he mistreats you. When away from him you suffer because you believe it was your fault that he mistreated you, because you are the bad person who is failing to make a good person love her… and you want to try again.
The trap in regard to him is just that: with him you suffer, away from him you suffer. Repeat.
What keeps you trapped is your core belief, that you are a bad person, that any mistreatment of you is an indication that you are a bad person.
And so, everyone who mistreats you gets a jail free card, access to you and even invitations by you to mistreat you again. The one who doesn’t get a jail free card is you, therefore you are indeed trapped.
anita
March 18, 2018 at 9:20 am #197965AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
To your question on the other page: no, I don’t have this feeling anymore, that I was alone feeling this pain, that no one felt or feels such pain but me, the way I felt it. I use the past tense because the pain is way, way… way less intense than it used to be. (It used to be intense, overwhelming, exhausting for decades, having led me to a dysfunctional life).
Thing is I felt my pain but believed my mother was the one who was hurting. I wasn’t able to separate myself from her. I am now separate from her, mentally that is.
anita
March 18, 2018 at 10:21 am #197983AnonymousInactiveDear Abbey,
Thank you for the kind words, that means a lot when someone says it and also knows what I feel.
Dear Anita,
What you wrote opened my eyes a lot. Thank you for that. I indeed don’t think he is a bad person. I mean I *know* it because I know the social standards for treating people, what’s good and what’s bad but I don’t blame him for treating me that way, and I indeed encourage him to hurt me. Even though I sometimes let him know he hurts me, but then I show him that it’s perfectly fine and I allow to do it again, because.. it’s not like I think I deserve it, it’s more like: it’s fine, you hurt me, I hurt myself too, I hate myself for self harming and it hurts when I do it myself too but I HAVE TO do it and it gives me relief because I need to punish myself constantly. So with pleasure and relief I accept the fact that you support me with all this (self)harming, and I encourage you to do this because I need this. I can’t live without it.
March 18, 2018 at 10:25 am #197985AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
The last sentence: “I can’t live without it”, I am not clear about what “it” means.
anita
March 18, 2018 at 10:34 am #197987AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
“It” I meant hurting myself, because I do it all my life, at least since I was 6 or 7, when I was 12 almost everyday to this day.
March 18, 2018 at 12:21 pm #197997AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
I understand. If you want to challenge this core belief, that you are a bad person and therefore deserving to be hurt (by you and by others), let me know. We discussed here anxiety and so forth. Underneath all your distress and dysfunction in life is this core belief.
There is an exercise in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, of taking a core belief to court, so to speak. There you prepare an argument for the core belief (in defense of keeping it) and an argument against it (prosecuting it). Eventually you judge the core belief as true or not true.
If you want, you can prepare such arguments for and against, defend and prosecute, and post it here. I will be back to the computer in about sixteen hours.
* You are a good person, joanna. I believe it. I hope that you believe it too, one day soon.
anita
March 18, 2018 at 1:17 pm #198005AnonymousInactiveDear Anita,
Thank you for saying I’m a good person. I am always amazed when someone says that. And I don’t mean compliments, just opinion or assumption, that someone would think that.
Yes I would like to challenge that belief but honestly I wouldn’t have any idea for arguments against it. Two years ago I wrote on a piece of paper all the bad things about me, I don’t know why I did this, I just sat and wrote all bad things people used to tell me through all my life, all things people bullied me about, complained about me, mocked me, blamed me. There was a whole page of it. I threw this paper out, but I remember then I wanted to write the good things and there were like 3 or 4 lines. I couldn’t recall any and I couldn’t think of any.
Sure I would like to prepare such thing you proposed. Just wouldn’t know what to think of.
March 19, 2018 at 9:37 am #198111AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
I used to feel amazed at the thought of me being a good person, not that the thought occurred to me much. I remember now, on this website a few people suggested I was a good person, that felt like a new idea, something not considered before. Reading such comments did not lead me to consider such. An alien idea, it was. I believed I was a bad person.
I was wondering yesterday while on a walk, if, when interacting with this man, as in during the last visit, if you did whatever it is that you did (I do not need or want details) because you wanted to please him. I wondered if it pleased him and has pleased him during the years, that you presented yourself to him as less worthy, as someone deserving of mistreatment.. if that made him feel good.
What do you think?
Will refer back to the exercise later, remind me if you want.
anita
March 19, 2018 at 11:46 am #198149AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
Yes, “new idea, something not considered before”, when someone says I am good person or he likes me for the kind of person I am I always want to ask “Really? Like what exactly? Did I say something that you like? tell me more why did you think that” and also “Is it temporary that you think that or was it just a thought?”.
Yes I wanted to please him, or rather to not disappoint him. I always get this feeling. As for your question, yes he is the kind of person who wants to be superior to women. As from what he said about his ex girlfriend she was the one who care more, loved more and always apologizing, she also went out of her way to please him. I would say my ‘relationship’ with him when we were dating wasn’t much different from what he has with other women. As for last meeting, When he was leaving I asked him “now what” and he said “I have to go” and was just staring at me. I know he felt a bit weird, maybe because we used to spend days and nights together and now he just left me like this. I think he did feel bad about it. (not justifying him, I know he would figure something out to stay, he just didn’t want to)
March 19, 2018 at 12:33 pm #198169AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
Well, you and I are good people. How about that…
You wanted/ want, when you see him, to not disappoint him, that is to meet his expectation to act inferior to him, to allow him that feeling of superiority he likes to entertain. A lot of people do that, I have done it, allow another to enjoy their superiority, perceived superiority, that is. Lots of people are pleased with that, with having people please them that way.
It doesn’t serve him well, doesn’t serve you well. Can you imagine, that what is really good for him is for a woman to not act inferior? Can you imagine that is just what he needs?
A shame he may never find it out, not for as long as there are women willing to please him this way.
anita
March 19, 2018 at 1:31 pm #198187AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
You’re probably right, as much as it shocked me what you just wrote. I remember when we started seeing each other I was acting different and he tried so much to get me, I didn’t want to sleep with him for couple of months, he used to come to my house in the middle of the night, was sad when I ignored his texts, or didn’t have time for him.He used to bring me flowers and buy candles for the night because I joked I wanted this. That was also the last time he ever mentioned us being together in a serious relationship or things like holding my hand etc. He tried really hard to get me (I was in love with someone else at that time so I ignored him for a long time). The time I agreed to sleep with him changed all this, and it never came back the way it was before.
So I believe it’s true, this is what he really needs. I think about it very often, I was happy then, it wasn’t sick relationship like it is now. But is it possible to come back to this? I’m not saying to us being together like it was before, but come back to when I felt worthy and not inferior around him.
You’ve done it, so did you finally stop wanting this? I’m not asking if you realized it’s bad, because its not that difficult to know and to see, but do you still feel this need for someone to make you feel less worthy?
March 19, 2018 at 1:42 pm #198195AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
I will be back in about fifteen hours, or less, will read and reply to you then. Please take good care of yourself.
anita
March 20, 2018 at 3:20 am #198265AnonymousInactiveDear Anita
Thank you very much for being kind to me, for not telling me to stop hurting myself. I am really surprised you never tell me, even in a gentle way, to at least *try* to stop doing this. My mother used to tell me when I was in high school and had acne (as a result of picking and scratching my skin) “what do you have on this face again”, “what did you do again to this face”she once read chocolate caused acne and there it started “you have something on your face again, did you eat chocolate again” “I told you to not eat those foods, why did you ” etc. She was so angry at me I caused it and looked bad. She was angry at me for looking bad. If I could “try” to not do this I would definitely do.
I feel so bad, I keep having those terrible nightmares. I barely sleep lately. That means a lot that you care about me. Maybe I’ll try to leave my face alone since today, my friend came for couple of days.
March 20, 2018 at 4:52 am #198283AnonymousGuestDear joanna:
I just read your last two posts. Your friend is visiting you for a couple of days? I don’t know which friend it is but I hope you are having a good time with that friend.
Of course I wouldn’t tell you to not do what ends up hurting you. I know that you do what you do so to find relief from emotional pain and at first you find that relief, at least some of the times. I cannot provide you with the relief you need so desperately, when you do, right there and then, therefore I understand that you seek that relief in the ways that are available to you.
I understand only too well how emotional pain feels, how it feels to be desperate for relief. Not that I recommend hurting oneself for the purpose of the initial, temporary relief. Of course not, but I understand and experienced the urge, the great need to… feel better.
In regard to your question about pleasing another by acting inferior to them.. no, I do not do that anymore, oh no. I acted inferior before because I believed that I was. Well, I am not. I am not inferior to anyone.
Regarding the man (I don’t think you mentioned his name, or a made-up name for him), you asked if there is a way to change the dynamic that has been established, the inferior/superior dynamic- I doubt it because it already has been established. If he was motivated to change and was involved in intense psychotherapy, and if he approached you and told you that he wants to change himself and the dynamic and develop a healthy, loving relationship where the two of you are equal-in-value partners, then maybe, a good chance, excellent chance with hard work.
But without these things, no, I don’t think so.
anita
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